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BenKweller, you might be right.

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First, let me state that I was an avid BenKweller hater. Much of his posts go something like; "you are wrong", you're wrong", "wrong", "totally wrong" and the list goes on. But, now I am starting to see Ben's point of view on this holistic stuff.

I have been doing colonics for about 2 or 3 months now and they have you follow a level program. You start at level one and move to level eight. After the eight level they have maintence levels that you can do once a month or 4 tmes a year (the seasons). So I finished the seventh level and skipped the eight and deicded to do a maintence colonic. These take one month to prepare for and you can pick from a variety of different things.

Anyway, im not going to say what I did, but I picked one and started to prepare for it last night. I didn't feel bad until 3 hours later, after I had drank a mixture they gave me. Cramps and diarrhea and I just felt awful. I went to sleep at 11 and then woke up again at 12 and the same thing, cramps and diarrhea. I woke up at 1:00 am and again the same things. I went to sleep again and woke up at 5:00 am and it felt like I was going to die. I had never experienced such pain before in my life. It felt like someone was repeatedly stabbing me in my stomach.

I was really contemplating about going to the hospital, but I do not have insurance and so I did resort back to holistic measures somewhat. Instead of taking epsom salts to produce diarrhea, I did a salt water flush, which is basically the same thing. I felt a little better, but then the pain came back. After that I decided I needed to do an enema to get everything out of me. After I did this I felt 90% perecent better and took a homeopathic pill called traumeel, which is basically a pain killer. I figured if I could sleep for another 6 or 8 hours I would be fine. I took this around 7am and it is now 2:30 pm and I feel fine. The pill wears off after 3-4 hours so it is not the pill that is stopping the pain, but rather everything has passed from my system.

I kind of realize what Ben has been saying all along now. When you drink a cup of olive oil or drink a cup of some herbal tea, you do not know if it has any dangerous side effects. No one in the medical field has done extensive research on what will happen when you ingest a cup of olive oil. This is just one example, but the same can be said for oxy powder, colonix and so on. All this alternative "medicine" has not been proven to be safe. And just because it does not harm one person, it could harm another. Maybe you are allergic to some of the ingredients and you would have no idea. I do not know if I will stop all of these alternative treatments I do, but I kind of realize now that these could seriously harm your body or maybe even wind up killing you one day.

I wish Ben would try to post more along these lines when he responds to a liver flushing thread, but either way, he is not completely wrong when he urges us to not practice these acne "cures".

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Colonics are definately potentially dangerous if done improperly. I think there are too many "methods" for colonics that get passed around. Infact, I think anytime you try to flush the body of stored up waste (toxins, heavy metals, unfriendly bacterias, candida yeasts, etc) it can have a very negative affect on the body. A much better idea is to take the cleansing process slowly, which is certainly not what colonics do.

That said, I'm an ardent naturalist and believe 100% in non-folky holistic treatments. But I'm also a realist and an "objective truth seeker", hence my apprehension about some of the "colonic" treatments espoused on this website.


'Till you clear the inside you ain't gonna clear the outside.


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Colonics are definately potentially dangerous if done improperly. I think there are too many "methods" for colonics that get passed around. Infact, I think anytime you try to flush the body of stored up waste (toxins, heavy metals, unfriendly bacterias, candida yeasts, etc) it can have a very negative affect on the body. A much better idea is to take the cleansing process slowly, which is certainly not what colonics do.

That said, I'm an ardent naturalist and believe 100% in non-folky holistic treatments. But I'm also a realist and an "objective truth seeker", hence my apprehension about some of the "colonic" treatments espoused on this website.

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I won't be an ass and say, "I told you so," because I never like hearing about people getting sick. My entire opposition to this stuff is just that when you mess with your body, your playing god in a realm you weren't meant to. If your body needed something done by these "Easy to do" flushes, etc... it'd do itself. Millions of people in history have lived to ages of 90 or more without having to "flush;" and not always because they had a great diet. Some had a regular diet that just involved them exercising and doing non-internet-started things.

I'm glad you feel better, though.

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Lumas: What have you been doing to yourself? How many colonics have you done? eusa_doh.gif

It sounds like you are way overdoing it. It's ok to get a series of colonics, and then do them for maintenance, but I only did 3, one week apart to begin with. I have only had them every 5-6 months apart, as needed, since the original three. You really should watch how often you do colon cleansing. It's not a healthy thing to over do (that goes with anything). You should p.m. me and tell me what you were doing...... eusa_think.gif

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If anyone is suggesting that it is a good idea to drink water with spoonfuls of epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) dissolved in it, that person has rocks in his head. Magnesium sulfate is extremely hygroscopic; it draws water from the intestinal walls, into the bowel. Also, taking that much magnesium is drastically going to upset the calcium/magnesium ratio in the body, which is dangerous, because calcium is essential for proper nerve function. I occasionally add a few *milligrams* of magnesium sulfate to canned tomatoes, which have calcium chloride added to make them firmer. I do that in order to maintain the proper calcium/magnesium ratio, but I would never take magnesium, calcium, or any other mineral salt for that matter, by the spoonful. A tablespoonful of potassium chloride (salt substitute) would probably be fatal for a lot of people. Yet, potassium is an essential nutrient, and we need about a gram a day, but in the form in which it naturally occurs in foods. In my opinion, it is foolhardy to ingest large quantities of mineral salts.

To "flush" or clean out the bowel, the safest course is to eat foods high in fiber. If you're doing that already, your bowel probably doesn't need to be "flushed out."

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To "flush" or clean out the bowel, the safest course is to eat foods high in fiber. If you're doing that already, your bowel probably doesn't need to be "flushed out."


'Till you clear the inside you ain't gonna clear the outside.


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Oh yeah, Lumas, something I thought of this morning when I woke up. It may or may not apply to you. I recall last winter when I first started flushing and taking Colosan, on about 5-6 different occasions, I had terrible, burning type of pain in my stomach area. It was so bad on one occasion, I almost had my husband take me to the emergency room. eek.gifeusa_doh.gif

Funny thing was.....I would have this nasty smelling toxic diarrhea type of bowel movement, and magically.....the pain would go away. I looked high and low for answers, and couldn't figure out what was going on. I asked Shelley about and she finally gave me the answer. She said that people who have extremely acidic, toxic, impactions, can experience terrible burning as it passes through the colon walls on the way out, because the colon wall is very sensitive. That totally explained everything. I always felt fine after I passed this nasty smelling stuff, but when it was passing through my colon, I was in agony.

I don't know if that is what happened to you. I didn't even think of it as a possibility because I actually forgot about it until this morning.

But the bottom line is, if that is what happened to you, then that would explain it. I know that that is what happened to me. I believe that last time it happened was in February or so. The last episode was so intense, I really thought something terrible was happening to me, and almost got my husband up in the middle of the night to take me to the emergency room. I never even made the connection between the rank-smelling bowel movement stopping the pain, and the fact that I was merely moving junk out of my bowel that genuinely needed to get out.

There was nothing I could have done differently to stop the pain; absolutely nothing. It was just part of the cleansing process. At least when I found out what it was, I realized that I was just glad such nasty, acidic, waste was getting out of my body. wacko.gifeusa_sick.gifeusa_shifty.gif

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My post has nothing to do with colonics really.

I was doing an absorbic acid flush. I was taking ester c in powder form and it was suppose to give me diarrhea. It was like 15,000 mg then a teaspoon every half hour until I had diarrhea. I have read about people who do this so its not like this happens to everyone who does it.

So Densise, you think 4 colonics a year is too much? I was going to do one at the start of each season.

Now I think I got the flu lol, so I am off to bed again.

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Lumas.....I would NEVER do the ascorbic acid flush!!! DUDE!!! OY VEY!!! I am not even that familiar with it!!!! eusa_doh.gif

I know that my hydrotherapist says that once you finish your back-to-back colonics (the initial ones), that you should only have them once every 5-6 months, but that is what SHE says. You should do colonics as often or as little as you feel is right for you. Personally, I think that once you get "cleaned out", that maintenance works well if you use a colema board, and do a colonic when you feel you need one. It's a personal thing, and everyone's body is different.

Get well dude, and quit experimenting on yourself. wink.gif

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Denise2: When taking Colosan, is the correct method thus:

Mix 1 teaspoon in a full glass of water (is this correct? or half a glass water?).

Then juice of half a lemon on it's own with nothing else straight after drinking the colosan?


"Look at the leaves of forest trees and see how dark green they are.

Think about your skin and the power of the forest."

-MelbourneBloke


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it would be so awesome if ben and lumas teamed up and fought against liver cleanses together.

lumas, i'm sorry you felt so sick. that must have been awful!

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ROFL!!! Try....taking 15,000 mgs. of vitamin c at once, and more every half hour might make you sick. I would never consider doing that. There are much easier ways to clean the colon.

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I think his point is that the colon doesn't need cleaning ;(


"Look at the leaves of forest trees and see how dark green they are.

Think about your skin and the power of the forest."

-MelbourneBloke


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Denise, I respect your knowledge, but you do not know anything about what taking 15,000 mg does. First, thousands of people have done this before and felt fine. I did this again and it was fine this time. You can go look this up online if you want. It is called an absorbic acid flush. I will be doing it 6 more times in 3 weeks and after I did it I have no concerns that it might hurt me.

You seem to just be saying omg that is so bad because now a person (me) who was so for liver flushes and the holistic practices has shown that this stuff can be dangerous. People have also have had problems with liver flushes. Ive read plenty of posts about people who got stones stuck and had to be rushed to the emergency room.

There is a risk with doing any form of holistic medicine because it has not been studied and proven that it is safe. What is safe for 1,000 people might kill 1 person.

It just kind of upsets me that now your bashing what I just to save your liver flush followers. Yes, I will still do liver flushes, but there are dangers in doing it and any other form of holistic cures.

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Lumas....chill out, dude. I will repeat this one more time: I WOULD NEVER DO AN ASCORBIC ACID FLUSH. You have nothing to do with it, nor your experience. I would not take that much vitamin c at one time....regardless. I am not even THAT familiar with it. If you want to jump on the holistic bashing bandwagon, go right ahead if it will make you feel better. Just rest assured that in terms of treating acne, colon cleansing and liver flushing are pretty harmless, and that is the bottom line.

I am not even that familiar with the ascorbic acid flush, and would never attempt it because the vitamin c dosage is just simply too high. And that's the bottom line on that. eusa_naughty.gif

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but in all honesty.....if you think that taking antibiotics indefinately and taking accutane is less risky than what you have been doing to clear your acne, that's fine with me. Those two things have been "tested" too, don't forget. eek.gifidea.gifeusa_think.gif

I'm clear. I'm fine. I do liver flushes. My 11 year old son does liver flushes. I just found out that an R.N. I know does liver flushes, but she puts beet juice in hers, and she's just fine too.

Any medicine can harm anyone at any time; it depends on the individual's body. I've read plenty of message boards where people lost their hearing, their night vision, and had many other complications from Accutane. Accutane has been tested too. Again.......if you believe that Ben is right, and that you have been experiencing a placebo effect, that's cool with me.

Again....sorry you had a bad experience, but there is no need to get frustrated or angry with me. I ain't your enemy. And no, I only take 2,000 mgs. of vitamin c a day and that's it for me. I probably would never take any more than that, ever. Cleansing with herbs is one, but trying to cause diarrhea with a vitamin is quite different. It just doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

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Liverflushing is only risky with people who have severely atrophied gallbladders, Lumas, and that's all. I have even stated on this forum who SHOULD NOT do them..........normal, healthy, young people with no history of gallbladder disease should do fine doing liverflushes.

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16. Is there a certain "liver cleanse" recipe that you go with? Like olive oil, lemon and garlic? Do you recommend a certain way of cleansing the liver?

The best way to cleanse your liver is to keep harmful substances out of your body. The most sensible liver flush I have seen is recommended by Christopher Hobbs, L,Ac.:

1. Take one cup of fresh squeezed orange juice. Add some lemon to the point the mix tastes sour. You can water down the final mix to make it more palatable.

2. Add the juice of 1-2 cloves of fresh garlic (using a garlic press). Grate in some raw fresh ginger root as well.

3. Mix in 1 tablespoon of high quality olive oil, blend this in (or shake it well in a glass container) and then drink it up. (Yummy!)

4. Follow up with two cups of cleansing herbal tea. There are many available at health food stores today.

5. Drink this in the morning after a bit of stretching and deep breathing, then do not eat or drink anything else for one hour. The recommendation is to do this for 10 days during every change of season. Incidentally, I do not like the liver flush that involves large amounts of olive oil and lemon juice. This can put a real shock and strain on your liver.

http://www.liversupport.com/interview.htm

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We have received two cases reports of gall bladder crisis required emergency cholecystectomy, induced by a liver flush flushing a stone into the gall duct and causing its blockage.

Copyright 2001 Paul Bergner 171

http://medherb.com/Therapeutics/Hepatic_-_Liver_flush.htm

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Warning to people who take INSULIN:

After you do a gall stone cleanse, check your insulin levels before taking any insulin. Otherwise you may suffer insulin shock, from making your insulin levels too high. This happened to one woman in her 30s 4 days after flushing out her gallstones.

_____________________________________________________________________

But still I wondered how I could have had so many gallstones at my age and health. Their soft, translucent and gelatinous consistency also made question whether they were actually cholesterol stones.

I decided to do some research. The first thing I learned was that some people believe the gelatinous green balls are probably not gallstones. Several sources, including the naturopathic doctors Michael Murray and Joseph Pizzorno, said that "gallstones" typically passed during the liver flush are not really gallstones but simply soft complexes of mineral, olive oil and lemon juice produced within the digestive tract.

The liver flush is also theoretically unsafe for people who have gallstones. The large amount of oil causes the gallbladder to contract, making it possible for a gallstone to become lodged in the narrow opening of the gallbladder and necessitate emergency gallbladder surgery. Since gallstones are common in North America and many people with gallstones are asymptomatic, the absence of gallbladder-related symptoms does not mean an absence of risk. This procedure should only be done under the supervision of a trained health practitioner.

References

1. Kelley WD. One answer to cancer, 1999. [http://www.whale.to/cancer/k/Chapter_4.html]

2. Mills S, Bone K. Principles and Practice of Phytotherapy. London: Churchill Livingstone, 2000; 57-8.

3. Murray M, Pizzorno J. Textbook of Natural Medicine Vol.1 and 2. Edinburgh: Harcourt Publishers, 1999

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It is only performed after doing Kidney and Liver Cleanses and an Antiparasitic Regimen. If these steps are not performed first, the liver cleanse can be a traumatic experience since the amount of refuse produced by the cleanse can tax the kidneys if they are not clean, and parasites can block the flow of bile, leading to painful pressure.

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