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BenKweller, you might be right.


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#1 Lumas

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 01:33 PM

First, let me state that I was an avid BenKweller hater. Much of his posts go something like; "you are wrong", you're wrong", "wrong", "totally wrong" and the list goes on. But, now I am starting to see Ben's point of view on this holistic stuff.

I have been doing colonics for about 2 or 3 months now and they have you follow a level program. You start at level one and move to level eight. After the eight level they have maintence levels that you can do once a month or 4 tmes a year (the seasons). So I finished the seventh level and skipped the eight and deicded to do a maintence colonic. These take one month to prepare for and you can pick from a variety of different things.

Anyway, im not going to say what I did, but I picked one and started to prepare for it last night. I didn't feel bad until 3 hours later, after I had drank a mixture they gave me. Cramps and diarrhea and I just felt awful. I went to sleep at 11 and then woke up again at 12 and the same thing, cramps and diarrhea. I woke up at 1:00 am and again the same things. I went to sleep again and woke up at 5:00 am and it felt like I was going to die. I had never experienced such pain before in my life. It felt like someone was repeatedly stabbing me in my stomach.

I was really contemplating about going to the hospital, but I do not have insurance and so I did resort back to holistic measures somewhat. Instead of taking epsom salts to produce diarrhea, I did a salt water flush, which is basically the same thing. I felt a little better, but then the pain came back. After that I decided I needed to do an enema to get everything out of me. After I did this I felt 90% perecent better and took a homeopathic pill called traumeel, which is basically a pain killer. I figured if I could sleep for another 6 or 8 hours I would be fine. I took this around 7am and it is now 2:30 pm and I feel fine. The pill wears off after 3-4 hours so it is not the pill that is stopping the pain, but rather everything has passed from my system.

I kind of realize what Ben has been saying all along now. When you drink a cup of olive oil or drink a cup of some herbal tea, you do not know if it has any dangerous side effects. No one in the medical field has done extensive research on what will happen when you ingest a cup of olive oil. This is just one example, but the same can be said for oxy powder, colonix and so on. All this alternative "medicine" has not been proven to be safe. And just because it does not harm one person, it could harm another. Maybe you are allergic to some of the ingredients and you would have no idea. I do not know if I will stop all of these alternative treatments I do, but I kind of realize now that these could seriously harm your body or maybe even wind up killing you one day.

I wish Ben would try to post more along these lines when he responds to a liver flushing thread, but either way, he is not completely wrong when he urges us to not practice these acne "cures".

#2 dudeman

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 02:08 PM

Colonics are definately potentially dangerous if done improperly. I think there are too many "methods" for colonics that get passed around. Infact, I think anytime you try to flush the body of stored up waste (toxins, heavy metals, unfriendly bacterias, candida yeasts, etc) it can have a very negative affect on the body. A much better idea is to take the cleansing process slowly, which is certainly not what colonics do.

That said, I'm an ardent naturalist and believe 100% in non-folky holistic treatments. But I'm also a realist and an "objective truth seeker", hence my apprehension about some of the "colonic" treatments espoused on this website.
'Till you clear the inside you ain't gonna clear the outside.

#3 Lumas

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 03:36 PM

QUOTE(dudeman @ Nov 19 2004, 01:08 PM)
Colonics are definately potentially dangerous if done improperly. I think there are too many "methods" for colonics that get passed around. Infact, I think anytime you try to flush the body of stored up waste (toxins, heavy metals, unfriendly bacterias, candida yeasts, etc) it can have a very negative affect on the body. A much better idea is to take the cleansing process slowly, which is certainly not what colonics do.

That said, I'm an ardent naturalist and believe 100% in non-folky holistic treatments. But I'm also a realist and an "objective truth seeker", hence my apprehension about some of the "colonic" treatments espoused on this website.

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It was not a colonic though. It was just part of their program to take some sort of herb mixture. But, this has really nothing to do with colonics. I could have bought the mix myself and done this.

#4 BenKweller

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 03:40 PM

I won't be an ass and say, "I told you so," because I never like hearing about people getting sick. My entire opposition to this stuff is just that when you mess with your body, your playing god in a realm you weren't meant to. If your body needed something done by these "Easy to do" flushes, etc... it'd do itself. Millions of people in history have lived to ages of 90 or more without having to "flush;" and not always because they had a great diet. Some had a regular diet that just involved them exercising and doing non-internet-started things.

I'm glad you feel better, though.

#5 Denise2

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 07:54 PM

Lumas: What have you been doing to yourself? How many colonics have you done? eusa_doh.gif

It sounds like you are way overdoing it. It's ok to get a series of colonics, and then do them for maintenance, but I only did 3, one week apart to begin with. I have only had them every 5-6 months apart, as needed, since the original three. You really should watch how often you do colon cleansing. It's not a healthy thing to over do (that goes with anything). You should p.m. me and tell me what you were doing...... eusa_think.gif

#6 BenKweller

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Posted 19 November 2004 - 08:04 PM

You're in the Nile.

http://www.mbarron.n...e/bigmp_nf.html

#7 SteveBrown

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 12:57 AM

If anyone is suggesting that it is a good idea to drink water with spoonfuls of epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) dissolved in it, that person has rocks in his head. Magnesium sulfate is extremely hygroscopic; it draws water from the intestinal walls, into the bowel. Also, taking that much magnesium is drastically going to upset the calcium/magnesium ratio in the body, which is dangerous, because calcium is essential for proper nerve function. I occasionally add a few *milligrams* of magnesium sulfate to canned tomatoes, which have calcium chloride added to make them firmer. I do that in order to maintain the proper calcium/magnesium ratio, but I would never take magnesium, calcium, or any other mineral salt for that matter, by the spoonful. A tablespoonful of potassium chloride (salt substitute) would probably be fatal for a lot of people. Yet, potassium is an essential nutrient, and we need about a gram a day, but in the form in which it naturally occurs in foods. In my opinion, it is foolhardy to ingest large quantities of mineral salts.

To "flush" or clean out the bowel, the safest course is to eat foods high in fiber. If you're doing that already, your bowel probably doesn't need to be "flushed out."


#8 dudeman

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 01:01 AM

QUOTE(SteveBrown @ Nov 19 2004, 11:57 PM)
To "flush" or clean out the bowel, the safest course is to eat foods high in fiber. If you're doing that already, your bowel probably doesn't need to be "flushed out."

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Word. Fiber is tha shizzle. OD'ing on epsom salt is teh suxx0r fr0r ur tummy.
'Till you clear the inside you ain't gonna clear the outside.

#9 BenKweller

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 01:03 AM

Word. Anything more than that is trying to do something that your body doesn't want it to do.

#10 Denise2

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 07:53 AM

Oh yeah, Lumas, something I thought of this morning when I woke up. It may or may not apply to you. I recall last winter when I first started flushing and taking Colosan, on about 5-6 different occasions, I had terrible, burning type of pain in my stomach area. It was so bad on one occasion, I almost had my husband take me to the emergency room. eek.gif eusa_doh.gif

Funny thing was.....I would have this nasty smelling toxic diarrhea type of bowel movement, and magically.....the pain would go away. I looked high and low for answers, and couldn't figure out what was going on. I asked Shelley about and she finally gave me the answer. She said that people who have extremely acidic, toxic, impactions, can experience terrible burning as it passes through the colon walls on the way out, because the colon wall is very sensitive. That totally explained everything. I always felt fine after I passed this nasty smelling stuff, but when it was passing through my colon, I was in agony.

I don't know if that is what happened to you. I didn't even think of it as a possibility because I actually forgot about it until this morning.

But the bottom line is, if that is what happened to you, then that would explain it. I know that that is what happened to me. I believe that last time it happened was in February or so. The last episode was so intense, I really thought something terrible was happening to me, and almost got my husband up in the middle of the night to take me to the emergency room. I never even made the connection between the rank-smelling bowel movement stopping the pain, and the fact that I was merely moving junk out of my bowel that genuinely needed to get out.

There was nothing I could have done differently to stop the pain; absolutely nothing. It was just part of the cleansing process. At least when I found out what it was, I realized that I was just glad such nasty, acidic, waste was getting out of my body. wacko.gif eusa_sick.gif eusa_shifty.gif

#11 Lumas

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 08:23 AM

My post has nothing to do with colonics really.
I was doing an absorbic acid flush. I was taking ester c in powder form and it was suppose to give me diarrhea. It was like 15,000 mg then a teaspoon every half hour until I had diarrhea. I have read about people who do this so its not like this happens to everyone who does it.

So Densise, you think 4 colonics a year is too much? I was going to do one at the start of each season.

Now I think I got the flu lol, so I am off to bed again.

#12 Denise2

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 09:19 AM

Lumas.....I would NEVER do the ascorbic acid flush!!! DUDE!!! OY VEY!!! I am not even that familiar with it!!!! eusa_doh.gif

I know that my hydrotherapist says that once you finish your back-to-back colonics (the initial ones), that you should only have them once every 5-6 months, but that is what SHE says. You should do colonics as often or as little as you feel is right for you. Personally, I think that once you get "cleaned out", that maintenance works well if you use a colema board, and do a colonic when you feel you need one. It's a personal thing, and everyone's body is different.

Get well dude, and quit experimenting on yourself. wink.gif

#13 HUMMMMMMMElectricHUMMMM

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 11:50 AM

Denise2: When taking Colosan, is the correct method thus:

Mix 1 teaspoon in a full glass of water (is this correct? or half a glass water?).

Then juice of half a lemon on it's own with nothing else straight after drinking the colosan?
"Look at the leaves of forest trees and see how dark green they are.

Think about your skin and the power of the forest."


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#14 agentcooper

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 09:31 AM

it would be so awesome if ben and lumas teamed up and fought against liver cleanses together.

lumas, i'm sorry you felt so sick. that must have been awful!

#15 Denise2

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 03:31 PM

Um, this had nothing to do with liver flushing.......

HmmmmEHmmm: I believe that the directions indicate what you wrote, yes.

#16 BenKweller

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 03:37 PM

Moral of the story -- cleanses and flushes do nothing but make people sick and show up as a nice party trick placebo.

#17 Denise2

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 06:31 PM

ROFL!!! Try....taking 15,000 mgs. of vitamin c at once, and more every half hour might make you sick. I would never consider doing that. There are much easier ways to clean the colon.

#18 HUMMMMMMMElectricHUMMMM

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 07:11 PM

I think his point is that the colon doesn't need cleaning ;(
"Look at the leaves of forest trees and see how dark green they are.

Think about your skin and the power of the forest."


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#19 Lumas

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 07:14 PM

Denise, I respect your knowledge, but you do not know anything about what taking 15,000 mg does. First, thousands of people have done this before and felt fine. I did this again and it was fine this time. You can go look this up online if you want. It is called an absorbic acid flush. I will be doing it 6 more times in 3 weeks and after I did it I have no concerns that it might hurt me.

You seem to just be saying omg that is so bad because now a person (me) who was so for liver flushes and the holistic practices has shown that this stuff can be dangerous. People have also have had problems with liver flushes. Ive read plenty of posts about people who got stones stuck and had to be rushed to the emergency room.

There is a risk with doing any form of holistic medicine because it has not been studied and proven that it is safe. What is safe for 1,000 people might kill 1 person.

It just kind of upsets me that now your bashing what I just to save your liver flush followers. Yes, I will still do liver flushes, but there are dangers in doing it and any other form of holistic cures.

#20 BenKweller

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Posted 22 November 2004 - 07:54 PM

Shhhh, don't wake the children.