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If Acne Was Caused By Diet Why Would It Only Start At Puberty?


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#41 alternativista

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 02:07 PM

I think you have some crazy thinking on your doctor belief.
 
If you go to the doc for acne they will do as conventional medicine in med school has taught them. This is prescribing medication. While diet, exercise, genetics and other factors play a role in acne, none of this is directly proven consistently to the point it has made its way into teaching and textbooks. I wish to fix people as much as the next nurse or doctor. I want people not to be ill or suffer from acne, but simply telling everyone "fix your diet" will not work. Again we argue genetics, allergies, independent variables such as exercise, and activity level, age,gender, cost of "better" food. It doesn't all work as well clinically on a large scale as antibiotics or other drugs do. 
 
Even then, how would you feel if the $100 doctor visit resulted in a prescription that read "exercise and eat right" I'm sure you would flip $%^&
People come to doctors to "get something." A long tradition that still continues.

 1) No I wouldn't flip $%^&. I would love it. As would many people here whose complained that a visit do a doctor means an argument about not wanting to take some drug they insist you must have. They don't like to be questioned.
2) is that their excuse for over dosing the population, especially the elderly?  And their excuse for handing out antibiotics for people seeing them for the flu? 
 
No one thinks they don't want to help people.  We think they don't know how. Because they have been indoctrinated into a bad system.



Think about that for a minute. The acne is caused by diet claims are ludicrous. Acne is a hormonal disease  with a strong genetic link (bad acne tends to run in families). 

 

Stop with the conspiracies. 

 

 

BTW. Acne doesn't only start in puberty so the very premise of this thread is faulty just like everything else you've posted in it.

 

Many get acne for the first time as adults. And while rare, small children and infants get it. It's called infantile acne and not a new thing. 

 

On the other hand. it's now not uncommon for 7 year olds to get acne. And that is a brand new thing and the result of our deteriorating condition. 

 

http://well.blogs.ny...type=blogs&_r=0


Edited by alternativista, 28 July 2014 - 06:05 PM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#42 k3tchup

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 12:12 PM

I think you have some crazy thinking on your doctor belief.
 
If you go to the doc for acne they will do as conventional medicine in med school has taught them. This is prescribing medication. While diet, exercise, genetics and other factors play a role in acne, none of this is directly proven consistently to the point it has made its way into teaching and textbooks. I wish to fix people as much as the next nurse or doctor. I want people not to be ill or suffer from acne, but simply telling everyone "fix your diet" will not work. Again we argue genetics, allergies, independent variables such as exercise, and activity level, age,gender, cost of "better" food. It doesn't all work as well clinically on a large scale as antibiotics or other drugs do. 
 
Even then, how would you feel if the $100 doctor visit resulted in a prescription that read "exercise and eat right" I'm sure you would flip $%^&
People come to doctors to "get something." A long tradition that still continues.

 1) No I wouldn't flip $%^&. I would love it. As would many people here whose complained that a visit do a doctor means an argument about not wanting to take some drug they insist you must have. They don't like to be questioned.
2) is that their excuse for over dosing the population, especially the elderly?  And their excuse for handing out antibiotics for people seeing them for the flu? 
 
No one thinks they don't want to help people.  We think they don't know how. Because they have been indoctrinated into a bad system

 

I wrote a whole response to this however it was lost to accidental refresh. But regardless of what many thing as well as the fact that the blame generally falls on this system. IT is multifold between expectations, tradition, and society believes versus practice, the fact that this is a sue happy society which results in a lot of CYA, the lack of a concrete, predictable nature of acne per each individual or a majority that results in a prescribed treatment that can be wrote into a textbook and instructed to future doctors. The system will not change and will only evolve. One cannot place full blame on just one piece of the machine nowadays. 

 

But do remember that you do have a choice. hell, when i walk in i say what i want, reasonably But do not expect them to know or even give you the answer you want. It is and isn't their fault as described above. 

 

Well, i'm glad you wouldn't mind. Im sure someone with no insurance would just love to pay that doctor bill after knowing that they can't afford to watch their diet because that system too is FUBAR (healthy food more expensive then cheaper less nutritious food). Not to mention they could have done their own google search to find that out. Even if it was part of conventional teaching, still walking out with "diet first" "come back in 6 weeks before i start medication" Is more expensive.Personally I would see it as a slap in the face. I don't go into their office for that, which supports the value of "walking out with something" other than advice. And around and round it goes..

 

Discussing this will change nothing. Just be an educated consumer, but don't expect sunshine and rainbows. 


Nurses quietly go about their work in a noble profession, uncelebrated soldiers toiling through the days and nights in service to the sick, the injured and the dying. 


#43 Jond95

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:49 PM

Just get an MRT test for food sensitivities and your acne will be on its way to be cured



#44 alternativista

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:51 PM

Well, i'm glad you wouldn't mind. Im sure someone with no insurance would just love to pay that doctor bill after knowing that they can't afford to watch their diet because that system too is FUBAR (healthy food more expensive then cheaper less nutritious food). Not to mention they could have done their own google search to find that out. Even if it was part of conventional teaching, still walking out with "diet first" "come back in 6 weeks before i start medication" Is more expensive.Personally I would see it as a slap in the face. I don't go into their office for that, which supports the value of "walking out with something" other than advice. And around and round it goes..

 

Those are just more things wrong with the system and our society & form of economy. It is a disaster.  Starting with the fact that real food shouldn't be so hard to obtain, (which is why I'm working on improving access to food and a cooperative economy).  And it should not cost $100 to talk to a doctor. 

 

I would have thought as a medical professional you would value a doctor's advice over their ability to just prescribe drugs.  I would value their advice if they had any worthwhile advice to give, but that has not been my experience.  So as it is, they are only good in an emergency or for diagnostics. 


 

Just get an MRT test for food sensitivities and your acne will be on its way to be cured

 

Well, any acne that occurs as a result of a food sensitivity at least. 


Edited by alternativista, 29 July 2014 - 03:54 PM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#45 LewisS

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 06:44 AM

I don't think the problem is always about what we DO eat, it's often what we don't. Deficiencies rather than intolerance's. Our bodies need specific nutrition to function and develop properly.

 

I've always had conflicted opinions on this subject, but if you think about it, it all makes sense. Not just in the case of acne, but all diseases. If we don't give our bodies the tools to fight it, it's going to continue to manifest.



#46 alternativista

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:22 AM

I don't think the problem is always about what we DO eat, it's often what we don't. Deficiencies rather than intolerance's. Our bodies need specific nutrition to function and develop properly.
 
I've always had conflicted opinions on this subject, but if you think about it, it all makes sense. Not just in the case of acne, but all diseases. If we don't give our bodies the tools to fight it, it's going to continue to manifest.


Yes. And isn't it ridiculous to think otherwise? To believe the things you do or don't do to your body doesn't affect your body and every process going on inside?
Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#47 brain85

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:07 PM

I strongly believe food is the direct cause of adult acne.  My opinion, of course.

 

I have personally seen acne disappear from two friends when they changed their eating habits.

 

The evidence is too strong (if you look for it) to disregard food as being the cause of acne.  Explain how some cultures, for hundreds of years, have not had a single pimple, but when they started eating more of the western diet, acne started appearing in these cultures.

 

Western diet has destroyed many lives in my opinion. 



#48 Quetzlcoatl

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:52 PM

It's more than diet, though. It's also environment, immune system development, and epigenetic inheritance. I think one should be careful of suggesting a single causal factor for the myriad types of acne.



#49 ZhenZhu

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 08:14 PM

Everything affects hormonal changes.  All of the communication between our body cells is initiated by some type of hormone. Emotions themselves are a calvacade of hormonal signals and so is hunger itself, and digestion.  So yes, all acne is in this way hormonal, and in this way all food (and other environmental factors as stated by Quetzcoatl above) influences hormones. 

 

If dietary change didn't make a difference in acne, why do so many chronic acne sufferers, myself included, find success changing their diet?  Why do we so rarely, before the agricultural revolution, read about people with acne?  

 

I quoted this from http://www.acne.org/...-cider-vinegar/

 

"The Acid Mantle, Age and the importance of the skin's pH 
This slightly acidic layer, also referred to as the “Acid Mantleâ€, is our body’s first defence mechanism against bacteria invading it and is not a favourable environment bacterial growth to occur. This defence layer develops at puberty, which is why children are more susceptible to disease, viruses and fungal infections such are ringworm. The pH of children’s skin is closer to neutral (pH 7).

At puberty, however, we start to produce more hair on our bodies. Hair follicles have an associated sebaceous gland or glands which become active as hair growth increases, causing changes in the skin’s pH. The hormones that control sweat also become active and the whole surface of a teenager’s skin is totally different to that of a young child. This is our body’s way to increase our defence system.

The pH of normal, healthy human skin is somewhere between 4.5 and 6. However, this varies with age. Typically, newborns have a pH closer to neutral (pH 7) that quickly turns acidic in order to protect young children’s skin.

In the late teens to early 20’s, our Acid Mantle is well developed and provides good protection against potentially harmful, external environmental factors. Our skin usually looks healthy, heals quickly when injured and seems to take care of itself.

With increasing age however, the skin’s pH becomes more and more neutral, and thus more susceptible to bacterial growth. This reduced acidity kills fewer bacteria than before, leaving the skin susceptible to bacterial growth and infections. The skin weakens as a result and begins developing problems with increasing age. (Interestingly, the pH value rises beyond 6 when a person actually suffers from a skin problem or skin disease.)

The aging process of the skin causes biochemical changes in collagen and elastin, the connective tissues underlying the skin, which give the skin its firmness (collagen) and elasticity (elastin). The rates of loss of skin firmness and elasticity differs from individual to individual, depending on their genetic makeup, general health, over exposure to the sun, skin care regime, or lack there of, and other factors.

As the skin becomes less elastic, it also becomes drier; the underlying fatty tissue begins to disappear resulting in the skin beginning to sag. Our skin is less supple, and wrinkles begin to form. At this stage, our skin is more easily injured, heals more slowly and tends to dry out more quickly."

 

 

And also this well researched post, on insulin and puberty"

 

http://www.acne.org/...e/#entry3314859


Edited by is0late, 01 August 2014 - 02:52 PM.

  • Clear Skin and Anxiety Maintenance Routine:
  • Supplements: Shi wei Bei Du Tang (powder by Sun Ten) and the Zhen Zhu An Chuang Pan (tablets by Guang Ci Tang)  both for acne+ other Chinese mood stabilizers. 
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  • Diet: Ultra Meal and Orac Energy Greens shakes- no meat, coffee,  dairy, gluten or alcohol
  • Topical: crysanthemum and MSM baths and cleansing with Proactiv Deep and Kavi Coral on Konjac sponge to exfoliate, and Jason Aloe and Tea Tree and Hyaluronic Acid to heal and hydrate. 
  • Lifestyle: 8 hrs sleep, light exercise only, >1hr sun exposure daily, no fluoride toothpastes, no sulfate shampoos, clean shower/pillowcase.

#50 o Havoc o

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:14 AM

I don't know why I'm answering another one of these stupid posts that are made about five times a year but, here I go.

It doesn't cause acne, it affects neatly all of the factors that lead to acne. You'll find plenty of details on that if you were here to read, learn and discuss, rather than to troll.

It also affects your puberty. How traumatic/dramatic the changes are, how early it happens, etc.

 

I am shocked to a post like this from you.

 

You typically write good posts, back up with research and help others. 

 

Why are you shooting this girl down?

 

I understand the frustration, 98% of the stuff i read in this thread is complete bullshit with no solid evidence to back it up. Due to this, i stay away from this thread a lot now and simply do not respond when i see a stupid post.

 

If you don't like a post that much then do not respond to it. Not having a go, just a suggestion.


Edited by o Havoc o, 01 August 2014 - 08:15 AM.

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#51 LeadingForce

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:21 AM

I don't know why I'm answering another one of these stupid posts that are made about five times a year but, here I go.

It doesn't cause acne, it affects neatly all of the factors that lead to acne. You'll find plenty of details on that if you were here to read, learn and discuss, rather than to troll.

It also affects your puberty. How traumatic/dramatic the changes are, how early it happens, etc.

 

Wow I asked a simple question and you're giving me an overly hostile response which is honestly unneeded. You don't know what trolling is, if you want trolling head over to a gaming forum. Debating the accusation that acne is induced (in a certain degree) is not trolling.

 

I have eaten a healthy diet literally my entire life and have not had any improvement in regards to my skin. The only thing that worked for me for a while was Accutane and then I experienced a relapse. It's not like I'm having my face stuffed with junk food- believe me I have tried to control my acne with diet and it never proved successful. 



>food can mess with your hormones which can cause acne = milk , meat 

 

otherwise why would millions on people who cured there acne write and make a video about it ? screw the derm , the derm doesnt know anything besides tell you basic things and making you waste money

 

No one has ever "cured" their acne (acne doesn't have a cure, not even Accutane) and if they have found a way to *manage it * through lifestyle it's certainly not in the millions. I don't pay any money to see a derm, it's free. What are you talking about?

 

okay what i meant was keep it under control so much your face is cleared 

 

some derm cost money just to see , yours probably dont then



#52 o Havoc o

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:24 AM

The other thing that really gets me about this entire part of forum,

 

People giving out advice about hormones when they have no clue what they are talking about.

 

Endocrinologists will be the first to say they are just scratching the service when it comes to hormones. So if the leaders of research are saying this then who is anyone else to comment about insulin sensitivity, leptin, ghrelin or whatever other hormone you want to talk about?

 

I'm a nutritionist. This would be like me giving nutrition advice to a cancer victim. Only an oncologist would be in a position to comment.

 

People need to get real and stop talking about a subject they clearly know nothing about.

 

There are like 10 thousand processes going on in the body at anyone time, we can control like 12 of them.


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#53 alternativista

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:22 AM

If you don't like a post that much then do not respond to it. Not having a go, just a suggestion.

 

You are right, I should not respond to trolls.  Which is why I added that first part. Because I knew I shouldn't be responding to the troll.



The other thing that really gets me about this entire part of forum,

 

People giving out advice about hormones when they have no clue what they are talking about.

 

Endocrinologists will be the first to say they are just scratching the service when it comes to hormones. So if the leaders of research are saying this then who is anyone else to comment about insulin sensitivity, leptin, ghrelin or whatever other hormone you want to talk about?

 

I'm a nutritionist. This would be like me giving nutrition advice to a cancer victim. Only an oncologist would be in a position to comment.

 

People need to get real and stop talking about a subject they clearly know nothing about.

 

There are like 10 thousand processes going on in the body at anyone time, we can control like 12 of them.

 

That makes no sense.   A cancer patient absolutely needs good nutrition advice.  An oncologist only poisons them. Sugar/high glycemic diets feed cancer tumors.  Nutrients and other habits help the body defeat them. 

 

And this belief isolating issues rather than using an integrative approach is at the root of problem with our health care system.


Edited by alternativista, 01 August 2014 - 11:17 AM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#54 o Havoc o

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:07 AM

If you don't like a post that much then do not respond to it. Not having a go, just a suggestion.

 

You are right, I should not respond to trolls.  Which is why I added that first part. Because I knew I shouldn't be responding to the troll.



>The other thing that really gets me about this entire part of forum,

 

People giving out advice about hormones when they have no clue what they are talking about.

 

Endocrinologists will be the first to say they are just scratching the service when it comes to hormones. So if the leaders of research are saying this then who is anyone else to comment about insulin sensitivity, leptin, ghrelin or whatever other hormone you want to talk about?

 

I'm a nutritionist. This would be like me giving nutrition advice to a cancer victim. Only an oncologist would be in a position to comment.

 

People need to get real and stop talking about a subject they clearly know nothing about.

 

There are like 10 thousand processes going on in the body at anyone time, we can control like 12 of them.

 

That makes no sense.   A cancer patient absolutely needs good nutrition advice.  An oncologist only poisons them. Sugar/high glycemic diets feed cancer tumors.  Nutrients and other habits help the body defeat them. 

 

And this belief isolating issues rather than using an integrative approach is at the root of problem with our health care system.

 

 

Yes agreed that need good nutrition advice.

 

What i am getting at. There a lot of people here in this thread go on about hormones and the relation to acne. My point is, on the grand scheme of things information and research on hormones is essentially in it's infancy. Yet a lot of people here see fit to give out advice on hormones. Don't get me wrong, there are a select few here who are knowledgeable but the vast majority read a blog somewhere and see fit to give out advice. So this is like me giving nutrition advice on cancer when i know nothing about cancer. That is my comparison.

 

It is truly frustrating. There is so much poor info on nutrition out there. I have got clients where their Metabolism is on the floor from poor coaches out there getting them to survive on 800kcal a day and doing endless cardio. I am the one who has to tell them it is going to be at least a year of reverse dieting them to get the metabolism where it needs to be to start burning fat again. Okay, this is slightly off topic, but the wrong info given out (which frequently happens here) can result someone in being even more messed up "hormonal" than when they first started.


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#55 ZhenZhu

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 08:00 PM

Wishonastar- Be forever wary of the advice of niche specialists.  When your only tool is a hammer, all you see are nails, and just because you get paid to dole out advice and push products and services doesn't mean you actually have the answers for everyone. Even among professionals in each specialty there is an abundance of conjecture and d*ck-waving,

 

Becoming aware of body processes and fact checking your sources is the best way to get advice. Message boards are just a jump-off point, that will always be polluted with opinions, even if there are good information and valid personal experiences there.  


Edited by Turn0ver, 05 August 2014 - 08:05 PM.

  • Clear Skin and Anxiety Maintenance Routine:
  • Supplements: Shi wei Bei Du Tang (powder by Sun Ten) and the Zhen Zhu An Chuang Pan (tablets by Guang Ci Tang)  both for acne+ other Chinese mood stabilizers. 
  •  20,000IU+ of Vitamin D/day (+ antioxidants and multi with minerals)
  • Diet: Ultra Meal and Orac Energy Greens shakes- no meat, coffee,  dairy, gluten or alcohol
  • Topical: crysanthemum and MSM baths and cleansing with Proactiv Deep and Kavi Coral on Konjac sponge to exfoliate, and Jason Aloe and Tea Tree and Hyaluronic Acid to heal and hydrate. 
  • Lifestyle: 8 hrs sleep, light exercise only, >1hr sun exposure daily, no fluoride toothpastes, no sulfate shampoos, clean shower/pillowcase.

#56 Green Gables

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 11:35 AM

All acne is hormonally initiated. I love this quote from Geoffrey Redmond (endocrinologist) in his published American Medical Association article on acne.

 

"WIthout androgenic action on the pilosebaceous unit, acne does not occur."

 

I think most of us know this, but androgens include testosterone and DHT hormones, and the pilosebaceous unit is "The structure consisting of hair, hair follicle, arrector pili muscles, and sebaceous gland."

 

The chain can be described like this.

 

Androgenic action -> sebaceous gland -> sebum production -> dead skin cells mixing -> blockages -> bacteria feeding on blockage -> inflammation -> acne.

 

So right now, all acne treatments step in to stop acne somewhere in that chain. Benzoyl peroxide helps with "blockages" and "bacteria." Salicylic acid helps with "blockages" and slightly with "inflammation." Accutane shrinks the sebaceous gland. Some other medications directly change the hormone levels. 

 

Now something important to remember is that the insulin / glucose cycle is strongly related to your hormones. Many people experience success getting rid of dairy or going low-carb because that directly modifies the insulin / glucose cycle which then in turn affects your hormonal output. Diet can and does work because it is capable in some people of fixing that bad hormonal pattern.

 

We could probably be accurate in changing the chain to look something like this:

 

Insulin / glucose and Androgenic action -> sebaceous gland -> sebum production -> dead skin cells mixing -> blockages -> bacteria feeding on blockage -> inflammation -> acne.

 

(If you go look up studies on diabetes (people with severe insulin / glucose problems), you will find a wealth of articles explaining the correlations between these problems and changes in hormones.)

 

If you are getting "acne" as an "allergic" reaction may I suggest that we call that something else. Typical acne as defined by inflammation from a pore blockage initiated by sebaceous gland output started by androgenic action is not the same as an allergic reaction to food, however it may look on the surface of the skin. However there are many skin conditions that similar to acne, (think folliculitis, or KP on the face), and perhaps there are also some allergic reactions that look like acne. But as this is the ACNE board, well...


Edited by Green Gables, 08 August 2014 - 11:38 AM.

photo-152109.gif?_r=1345837784?__rand=0.

 

I don't get notified of your response to my post unless you QUOTE my post.

Please only quote a small portion of the post so it doesn't clutter up the thread. 

 

How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#57 alternativista

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 01:56 PM

Acne is initiated by inflammation.  And while excessive sebum doesn't help, it's not the cause or a necessary step in acne formation. Plenty of people have oily but clear skin. And plenty of people have dry skin and acne.    And again, acne does not only begin at puberty as the title claims. Not any more. Plenty of people don't get it until later in life. Because of our now terrible diet and lifestyles that elevate hormones and promote chronic silent inflammation.

 

 

Recent Advances in Acne Pathogenesis Information


The 2009 acne update from the Global Alliance to Improve Outcomes in Acne throws some interesting insights about the pathogenesis of acne:

1- The inflammatory events in acne precede the hyperkeratinization (thickening of the follicular walls).
2- P. acnes specifically activate special receptors on the cell membranes of inflammatory cells.
3- The sebaceous gland is a neuroendocrine-inflammatory organ that coordinates and executes a local response to a variety of neuro-endocrinological and stress induced stimuli.
4- Sebaceous gland plays an important role in hormonally induced aging of skin.
5- In addition to their action on sebaceous gland activity, androgens have influence on the follicular cells (corneocytes) also.
5- Oxidized lipids in sebum (possibly altered by P.acnes) induce the production of inflammatory mediators.
6- Sebum contains several matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) which play important roles in the inflammatory process of acne. The levels of MMPs are significantly reduced in the acne lesions following treatment.

Reference

Simpson NB & Cunliffe WJ. Disorders of the Sebaceous Glands in Rookâs Textbook of Dermatology. 2004; 7: 43.1-43.75.
Diane T, Gollnick H et al. New insights into the management of acne: An update from the Global Alliance to Improve Outcomes in Acne Group. J Am Acad Dermatol, 2009;60:S1-50.


Edited by alternativista, 08 August 2014 - 05:41 PM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#58 dscully

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 02:13 PM

Sex hormones become active at puberty causing an increase in sebum production and changing the way your body and skin function completely. You could eat crappy foods when you are 8, but will not notice their effects on your skin until you hit puberty. Because women have naturally fluctuating hormones, they are more likely than men to have acne that persists into adulthood. This is because men's hormones even out (usually), whereas women's are constantly changing throughout their menstrual cycle (ovulation zits, anyone?). My husband used to have acne as a teen, but does not have any trouble in adulthood (no matter what he eats... it's not fair), whereas I must be extremely careful with my diet or I will look like I have been in an accident. Acne is generally NOT a food allergy. In fact, I've noticed that I have no true food allergies at all and am actually (like most acne sufferers) very sensitive to blood sugar spikes. While some people's acne may well be the result of a true allergy, most people just need to give up milk, sugar, and excess carbs to experience relief. It appears that I am doing a grain-free thing because of allergies, but really it's just because grains=carbs, and carbs=acne. I don't have any gastrointestinal issues if I eat a piece of baguette with cheese once in a while, so no allergies to report here! Milk is particularly an issue with women, since it naturally contains hormones and IGF which spike insulin and trigger acne. I always tell people that if they only give up one thing, make it cow dairy. I can even have a piece of actual real-life (I know OMG) candy from time to time at the movies or whatever and it will not do the same thing to me that a big glass of milk will do. Milk is absolutely poison for my skin, and I don't even like it that much to want to worry with my skin over it.

There is too much anecdotal evidence for the diet/acne link, not to mention all of the recent studies done linking dairy and sugar with acne (and premature aging) for me to entertain the possibility that all of us are trapped in some group hallucination causing us to believe in quack science. Sorry. The diet/acne thing is real. The genetics/acne thing is also real. Not everyone is predisposed to having acne... this is true. But you can't just say "oh well... I've just got bad genes!" and give up. You absolutely have more control over your destiny than that, and it's the lazy way out.


Edited by dscully, 08 August 2014 - 02:13 PM.

Suffered from acne as a young adult that went into remission when put on hormonal birth control. Went off the HBC around age 22 and the acne returned with a vengeance (along with a host of other hormonal complaints). 100% clear with a modified diet that excludes dairy, sugars, grains, citrus and cured meats and emphasizes whole food-based nutrition from both plant and animal sources, most notably organ meats like liver and juiced whole vegetables. I have included a recipe for the most helpful juice I have come up with for skin complaints. I drink it every day, and it is invaluable for acne due to the large amounts of vitamin A (carotenoids) from both the carrots and beets. It also helps improve your coloring if you are very fair, giving you a pinkish, more radiant look (not orange. Don't worry!).

 

Magic Juice

 

In a juicer, combine:

 

5-6 carrots

1 medium beet

2-3 stalks of celery

1 small apple (Green is preferred. Omit if you are very sugar-sensitive)

1 small (1inch) piece of ginger (optional, but good for digestion)

 

This makes a variable amount of juice depending on the size of the vegetables you use.

Drink this throughout the morning until it's gone. Store in the fridge not longer than one day.

Having perfectly clear skin on my wedding day was worth all the headache and effort of figuring out how diet affects acne!

10253792_10152330899888950_7455033623381
 


#59 Green Gables

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 01:04 AM

Alternatvista, your article says nothing about what starts the inflammation cycle. Without androgenic action on the pilosebaceous unit, the necessary events for the inflammation specifically in the pore that create the acne pustule cannot take place. You do not have to have "oily" skin to have just enough androgenic action to start the cycle which does result in inflammation near the end of the chain. Many people with seemingly dry skin on the surface still get blockages underneath the skin in cyst-like form. Have you ever had a stage four acne cyst excavated by a doctor? I have. Guess what, there is always a sebum pore blockage deep in the skin. Yet I have "dry" skin on the surface. 

 

There are cysts that do not have a pore blockage. But definitions are important. What differentiates acne from similar skin conditions is the pore blockage. If there is no pore blockage, then it's not acne you're not looking at. 

 

If you could possibly have ZERO androgenic action and ZERO sebum production, then you would not get acne. However even people with dry skin do not have zero androgens and nor do they have zero sebum. EVERY adult out there has some sebum. You don't need a lot to create the pore blockage that leads to an acne pustule.

 

This is why acne does start during and/or after puberty, because once puberty activates the hormones those hormones never completely go away, and typically you will always have more hormones after puberty than before. So you're way more likely as a 40 year old to have acne than a 4 year old purely based on your hormonal levels. 

 

Tons of hormonal changes also occur later in life even if you live a great healthy stress-free life. Menopause is just one great example. In some women, the testosterone/estrogen ratio is altered in favor of testosterone. This can even happen in perimenopause. No wonder some middle aged women start getting acne out of the blue. 

 

Also a huge point is that you are affecting your hormones every day by your lifestyle and what you eat. You may think it's all about inflammation, and it partially is. But you are modifying your hormones (including insulin/glucose) with every "anti-inflammatory" step you take. To say that it's initiated by inflammation is somewhat disingenuous as you can be as inflamed as you want, but if you had zero androgenic action and zero sebum you simply could not form the pore blockage that leads to acne. We can shut down the acne cycle much quicker by changing the hormones (major: insulin, minor: testosterone) than trying to address all the modalities of skin inflammation that are preceded by hormonal events. As most traditional acne treatments are either anti-bacterial or anti-inflammatory, certainly inflammation is a key step. But if your anti-inflammatory treatments are in no way affecting the internal hormonal events (e.g. something like benzoyl peroxide), your chances of eliminating acne are slim at best. Of course if you can do BOTH, more power to everyone. 

 

You highlighted stress. Even the most stressed out four year old does not have acne. I have worked with many troubled kids with terrible lives, mental disorders, high amounts of stress, abuse. They don't have pustular acne in the prepubescent stage. The whole cascade of hormones simply aren't in place for the particular type of acne to develop. Studies of girls that were considered premenarchial still showed hormone changes that indicated internal puberty changes before the other visible changes came about. There was one study that said that acne can precede other signs of puberty such as pubic hair and breast development--they determined puberty had happened by measuring hormone levels. 

 

That said, I also feel that we are agreeing in some ways but describing the problem differently. Even stress is largely a hormonally involved event. Maybe if we really really stressed out a four year old and gave them full blown type 2 diabetes (insulin problems) and stimulated androgens through weight lifting and dairy consumption, we could cause acne without the markers for puberty necessarily being in place. But to say that's happening because of inflammation only without the help of hormones is a bit silly. 

 

I'm also curious if you even personally have acne as traditionally defined, as you seem to report "reactions" from time to time that do not sound like acne at all. For example, how was your MSM-induced acne different from your typical acne? Do you truly think the MSM-induced "acne" was even acne?


Edited by Green Gables, 09 August 2014 - 01:39 AM.

photo-152109.gif?_r=1345837784?__rand=0.

 

I don't get notified of your response to my post unless you QUOTE my post.

Please only quote a small portion of the post so it doesn't clutter up the thread. 

 

How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#60 doodleme123

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 04:16 AM

MSM is sulphur and sulphur is a fungal proliferant, so maybe that's why she broke out with acne when consuming MSM.


''I'm not clever, but I figure if I ask all the questions, somebody else might have all the answers'' - Quote, Me!





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