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If My Diet Is So Great, Why Isn't My Skin Great?


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#21 alternativista

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 02:20 PM

Considering I'm studying to become a dermatologist, I take offense to knowing "nothing" about how the skin functions. I'm very passionate about skincare, hence why I'm on this forum. If you think acne affects your diet somehow, fantastic- then perhaps you can control it somehow, but don't generalize all other people with varying forms of acne. Let's focus on what we know to be true rather than what is just pseudoscience. 

 


It's not always about diet, even obese people sometimes have flawless skin and they eat complete s**t. 
 
Sometimes it can be genetic. 

It's always genetic. Except when it's caused solely by some topical or environmental substance as in chloracne.
And diet always affects our genetic acne.

>My diet has absolutely never affected my acne. I wish it did, because at least then I could do something about it (topicals have it under control for now). I honestly can't stand this theory because it definitely fuels stigma that people with severe cases of acne already get. If I had a dime for every time someone told me "Oh you must be eating gluten" I would seriously be rich. Acne is a disease and rarely a symptom, I wish people would treat it as an actual condition and not a reflection of a "poor lifestyle". That's just my two cents. I know of a few select people that claimed diet affects their acne, but then they never had bad acne to begin with...a blemish here and there, and they also go on to say that eating certain foods triggers a breakout a mere few hours later...pimples, depending on the severity, take at least a week up to a few weeks (if it's cystic) to form, so that invalidates that claim entirely. 

ockquote> Nearly every word in that post reveals you know nothing about skin function and the many ways diet affect it. I've written extensively about it if you care to learn. Diet affects the hormones involved in acne, the inflammation involved in acne, the hyperkeratinization/hyper proliferation involved in acne and the composition of sebum involved in acne.
I had real acne. Severe acne. For decades. My diet and habits keep me clear. If my diet worsens my skin worsens. And included in my severe acne were cysts/nodules caused by a food intolerance that would appear the day after I consume the food. Now, I don't believe that is true acne. Nevertheless, several derms considered it to be acne and drugged me accordingly.
The real tragedy is all the skinny, clear skinned people think their bad diet and lifestyle isn't harming them. So where do you think all this chronic disease in this sickly culture comes from?

I'm not generalizing. I've gone through tons of research and found numerous instances where diet affects all the factors I named above. In addition to the simple fact that it is not possible for diet to not affect acne or any other aspect of your health.

If you want to be a better than average dermatologist, I suggest you do the same, rather than just memorize what your textbook tells you.


Edited by alternativista, 11 July 2014 - 04:01 PM.


#22 missamua

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 02:25 PM

I'd be very interested to see some before and after pictures of your skin if you happen to have any. Also, based on the severity of your acne, I can only assume you've been left with some degree of scarring? 

Considering I'm studying to become a dermatologist, I take offense to knowing "nothing" about how the skin functions. I'm very passionate about skincare, hence why I'm on this forum. If you think acne affects your diet somehow, fantastic- then perhaps you can control it somehow, but don't generalize all other people with varying forms of acne. Let's focus on what we know to be true rather than what is just pseudoscience. 

 


It's not always about diet, even obese people sometimes have flawless skin and they eat complete s**t. 
 
Sometimes it can be genetic. 

It's always genetic. Except when it's caused solely by some topical or environmental substance as in chloracne.
And diet always affects our genetic acne.

>My diet has absolutely never affected my acne. I wish it did, because at least then I could do something about it (topicals have it under control for now). I honestly can't stand this theory because it definitely fuels stigma that people with severe cases of acne already get. If I had a dime for every time someone told me "Oh you must be eating gluten" I would seriously be rich. Acne is a disease and rarely a symptom, I wish people would treat it as an actual condition and not a reflection of a "poor lifestyle". That's just my two cents. I know of a few select people that claimed diet affects their acne, but then they never had bad acne to begin with...a blemish here and there, and they also go on to say that eating certain foods triggers a breakout a mere few hours later...pimples, depending on the severity, take at least a week up to a few weeks (if it's cystic) to form, so that invalidates that claim entirely.&n

bsp;
Nearly every word in that post reveals you know nothing about skin function and the many ways diet affect it. I've written extensively about it if you care to learn. Diet affects the hormones involved in acne, the inflammation involved in acne, the hyperkeratinization/hyper proliferation involved in acne and the composition of sebum involved in acne.
I had real acne. Severe acne. For decades. My diet and habits keep me clear. If my diet worsens my skin worsens. And included in my severe acne were cysts/nodules caused by a food intolerance that would appear the day after I consume the food. Now, I don't believe that is true acne. Nevertheless, several derms considered it to be acne and drugged me accordingly.
The real tragedy is all the skinny, clear skinned people think their bad diet and lifestyle isn't harming them. So where do you think all this chronic disease this sickly culture comes from?

My diet has been great for a long time now. I eat a ton of fruits and veggies. I avoid wheat, sugar, and animal products. I don't eat vegetable oils or any oils for that matter. I eat good fats (cashews and avocado) and some gluten free whole grains like oatmeal. My skin is still sooo clogged up and lately it has been very oily. It was like this before I eliminated meat too. I exercise, get enough sleep, my vitamin D is not low. My stress levels could be lower, but I have an anxiety disorder so it's never going to be perfect. Why is what I'm doing not good enough to have clear s

kin?

Paige, what do you mean by clogged up? Blackheads? Closed comedones? I think non inflamed acne like this has to exfoliate away which takes time. You could add mild exfoliants like a BHA or diluted acv. For blackheads a clay mask or oil cleansing which is the only thing I've found to work for me.
And are you sure it isn't caused by a topical? How often are you cleansing?
Is your skin oilier because it's summer?
Is this acne different from what you had before?
Do you consume flax seed?

I'm not generalizing. I've gone through tons of research and found numerous instances where diet affects all the factors I named above. In addition to the simple fact that it is not possible for diet to not affect acne or any other aspect of your health.

If you want to be a better than average dermatologist, I suggest you do the same, rather than just memorize what your textbook tells you.

 



#23 alternativista

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 03:22 PM

All I can show you is pictures of my current clear skin and scarring. I took some today.  However, I had dermabrasion done years ago so they aren't as deep as they would otherwise be. 

 

Also:

http://www.acne.org/...en-us-and-them/

 

I'd be very interested to see some before and after pictures of your skin if you happen to have any. Also, based on the severity of your acne, I can only assume you've been left with some degree of scarring?

 

Hmm.  You can't really see them in the pictures, not unless you know exactly where to look. I'll have to try again. I could see them plain as day in the display when i too them.  And strangely, what you shows up the best are the light bumps left by chest acne because for some reason, that's how your chest scars. Bumps, not pits.


Edited by alternativista, 11 July 2014 - 03:37 PM.


#24 missamua

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 03:24 PM

That's interesting that you got improvement from dermabrasion, there aren't very many people who obtain more than minimal improvements or end up with worse scarring (at least according to online reviews). How much improvement did you get from the procedure?

All I can show you is pictures of my current clear skin and scarring. I took some today.  However, I had dermabrasion done years ago so they aren't as deep as they would otherwise be. 

 

Also:

http://www.acne.org/...en-us-and-them/

 

I'd be very interested to see some before and after pictures of your skin if you happen to have any. Also, based on the severity of your acne, I can only assume you've been left with some degree of scarring?



#25 alternativista

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 03:46 PM

That's interesting that you got improvement from dermabrasion, there aren't very many people who obtain more than minimal improvements or end up with worse scarring (at least according to online reviews). How much improvement did you get from the procedure?

ll I can show you is pictures of my current clear skin and scarring. I took some today.  However, I had dermabrasion done years ago so they aren't as deep as they would otherwise be. 

lso:

http://www.acne.org/...en-us-and-them/

 

I can;'t really say. It was so long ago. I was left with a lot of hyperpigmentation as a result of the scabbing.  For a long time, there was a clear line around one of my eyes.  Also, I usually got the cysts/nodules, i.e. the most scarring form of acne, on my jawline, neck, back of neck, back, chest & temples.  So, the worst scars were at the temples. I've tried, but I can't get a good picture of them. I don't even know if I have scars on my back, or back of neck. And chest scars look like small whitish bumps.

 

I went outside with my ipad and managed to get one picture in which i think anyone would see the scarring. What you can't see besides my temple is my most hated scars. A row of tiny pits right where the smile creases form as you age and lose elasticity. Making it look like I already have that happening on one side of my face.  http://www.acne.org/...41-cheek-scars/


Edited by alternativista, 11 July 2014 - 04:37 PM.


#26 AcneWonderland

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 04:19 PM

OP can u maybe show a pic of a small area of your worst places of those clogged pores?

 

also how much fats do u usually eat? maybe u need to limit those a bit? cashews are nuts, many say its not good having those in diet for acne. also dont remember where but was said cant eat too much avocados either. i think just dont overeat avocados and have just little bit of cashews?

 

and maybe amounts of food and calories count too? how many calories approx per day u eat?

i eat like ~1200 cal a day now, mostly clean food. my pores seem not so clogged atm. maybe its just coincidence idk but i have same prob as u usually..they r still fuking scarred tho...



#27 alternativista

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 04:36 PM

OP can u maybe show a pic of a small area of your worst places of those clogged pores?

 She has many pictures in her logs.



#28 missamua

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 04:39 PM

It looks like you got pretty lucky, your skin doesn't look bad at all even in brighter lighting..of course, most people with scarring know how difficult it is to capture the severity in pictures. Nonetheless, I only see some mild texture issues but nothing severe by any means.

 

I'm personally considering laser resurfacing for my scarring if other methods fail, but dermabrasion seems to result in a fairly high rate of hyper pigmentation so I don't think I'll consider that an option at this point.

 

That's interesting that you got improvement from dermabrasion, there aren't very many people who obtain more than minimal improvements or end up with worse scarring (at least according to online reviews). How much improvement did you get from the procedure?

 

All I can show you is pictures of my current clear skin and scarring. I took some today.  However, I had dermabrasion done years ago so they aren't as deep as they would otherwise be. 

 

Also:

http://www.acne.org/...en-us-and-them/

 

assume you've been left with some degree of scarring?

 

I can;'t really say. It was so long ago. I was left with a lot of hyperpigmentation as a result of the scabbing.  For a long time, there was a clear line around one of my eyes.  Also, I usually got the cysts/nodules, i.e. the most scarring form of acne, on my jawline, neck, back of neck, back, chest & temples.  So, the worst scars were at the temples. I've tried, but I can't get a good picture of them. I don't even know if I have scars on my back, or back of neck. And chest scars look like small whitish bumps.

 

I went outside with my ipad and managed to get one picture in which i think anyone would see the scarring. What you can't see besides my temple is my most hated scars. A row of tiny pits right where the smile creases form as you age and lose elasticity. Making it look like I already have that happening on one side of my face.  http://www.acne.org/...41-cheek-scars/



#29 alternativista

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 05:41 PM

It looks like you got pretty lucky, your skin doesn't look bad at all even in brighter lighting..of course, most people with scarring know how difficult it is to capture the severity in pictures. Nonetheless, I only see some mild texture issues but nothing severe by any means.

 

I'm personally considering laser resurfacing for my scarring if other methods fail, but dermabrasion seems to result in a fairly high rate of hyper pigmentation so I don't think I'll consider that an option at this point.

 

I never got the deep pits on cheeks like many people did because the cysts mostly didn't occur there, but instead along my jaw, hairline, neck & back & chest and some of these areas just don't scar like that. The deepest pits were at my temples.  Also to be clear, most of these scars are over 20 years old as I figured out the cause of the cysts/nodules in my late 20s and mostly avoided it.



#30 AcneWonderland

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 02:24 AM

 She has many pictures in her logs.

i couldnt rly find anywhere

 

but hey, alternativista, can u tell pls how many yrs ur on your diet? its like almost completely clean right?  and how many years had acne before that? 



#31 Dan

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 09:48 AM

My diet has been great for a long time now. I eat a ton of fruits and veggies. I avoid wheat, sugar, and animal products. I don't eat vegetable oils or any oils for that matter. I eat good fats (cashews and avocado) and some gluten free whole grains like oatmeal. My skin is still sooo clogged up and lately it has been very oily. It was like this before I eliminated meat too. I exercise, get enough sleep, my vitamin D is not low. My stress levels could be lower, but I have an anxiety disorder so it's never going to be perfect. Why is what I'm doing not good enough to have clear skin?

 

I saw your tweet about this so I thought I'd respond, but then I realized WishClean already took the words out of my mouth:

 

 

Acne is multifaceted. Your main cause may not be diet...it could be hormonal, allergic (e.g. cosmetics, environmental triggers), gut-related... so many factors to take into consideration, although they are all interrelated in the end. 

 
I would add that it could be irritation of some kind, but regardless of what's causing your acne, most of the time active treatment is required. Have you tried The Regimen? You said you tried BP, but I don't know if you've tried strictly following The Regimen. Over my many years coaching people, I can get almost anyone completely clear with The Regimen if they stick to it. Sometimes it can take 3-4 months, but it should work for you. 


#32 paigems

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 05:03 PM

OP can u maybe show a pic of a small area of your worst places of those clogged pores?

 

also how much fats do u usually eat? maybe u need to limit those a bit? cashews are nuts, many say its not good having those in diet for acne. also dont remember where but was said cant eat too much avocados either. i think just dont overeat avocados and have just little bit of cashews?

 

and maybe amounts of food and calories count too? how many calories approx per day u eat?

i eat like ~1200 cal a day now, mostly clean food. my pores seem not so clogged atm. maybe its just coincidence idk but i have same prob as u usually..they r still fuking scarred tho...

 

I'd rather not post a picture. The clogs are literally all over my face, though.

 

I do not eat a lot of fat at all. I incorporated the cashews and avocado into my diet because I thought I needed more fat in my diet. Adding those two things to my diet seemed to help the oilyness of my skin a bit, but didn't do anything to hurt or harm my acne. 

 

I'd say I probably eat about 1800 calories a day? I'm very thin and lose weight easily so I can't really restrict my calories.

My diet has been great for a long time now. I eat a ton of fruits and veggies. I avoid wheat, sugar, and animal products. I don't eat vegetable oils or any oils for that matter. I eat good fats (cashews and avocado) and some gluten free whole grains like oatmeal. My skin is still sooo clogged up and lately it has been very oily. It was like this before I eliminated meat too. I exercise, get enough sleep, my vitamin D is not low. My stress levels could be lower, but I have an anxiety disorder so it's never going to be perfect. Why is what I'm doing not good enough to have clear skin?

 

I saw your tweet about this so I thought I'd respond, but then I realized WishClean already took the words out of my mouth:

 

 

>Acne is multifaceted. Your main cause may not be diet...it could be hormonal, allergic (e.g. cosmetics, environmental triggers), gut-related... so many factors to take into consideration, although they are all interrelated in the end. 

 
I would add that it could be irritation of some kind, but regardless of what's causing your acne, most of the time active treatment is required. Have you tried The Regimen? You said you tried BP, but I don't know if you've tried strictly following The Regimen. Over my many years coaching people, I can get almost anyone completely clear with The Regimen if they stick to it. Sometimes it can take 3-4 months, but it should work for you. 

 

 Thanks for the reply, Dan. I do agree that WishClean had a great response to this topic. 

 

I have tried bp in the past, but have never tried the regimen. The reason for that is that my biggest issue is not inflamed acne. My pores are just clogged with blackheads and other gunk. I'm not sure if I am correct in believing this, but I thought that bp usually had little effect on my type of acne. 



#33 allnightmarelong

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 12:59 AM

Diet alone will not cure you. There are other factors. You should use a gentle facial cleanser such as cetaphil or spectro jel. Change  your pillow case 3 times or more a week, wash it in hot water with dye and frangrance free detergent, don't use a drier sheet as the wax will get on your pillow case. Make sure you don't get your shampoo on your face when you shower. Don't touch your face with your hands if you have an itch, use a paper tissue or cotton swab. Get sone blood work done by a doctor to see if you are deficient or have too much of certain minerals, vitamins etc.



#34 firenature

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:11 AM

Why dont you go to an esthetitian(not sure if I wrote it right biggrin.png)? I find it very helpful sometimes. Just restrict them to extracting only the blackheads, uninflamed spots and other junk. Require enzyme peeling AND steaming your face for longer time to open the pores properly, not just one of them for 5 mins, this is how scars are made...

 

If the cosmetitian is experienced enough with acne patients (best go to an expensive one or a one that is with medical background) and knows how to squeeze, your skin will be much smoother.


Edited by firenature, 14 July 2014 - 02:13 AM.


#35 Dan

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 08:40 AM

The Regimen absolutely works on preventing blackheads and clogged pores. It's frustrating for me to see people on the boards struggling when really all you need to do is The Regimen. It's really that simple. 

 

Hopefully at some point in the future we will find a natural, holistic way of completely clearing people up in some sort of standardized way, and when that day comes I'll be the first to champion it, but in the meantime, The Regimen should fix you up.



#36 AcneWonderland

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 09:52 AM

You should use a gentle facial cleanser such as cetaphil or spectro jel. Change  your pillow case 3 times or more a week, wash it in hot water with dye and frangrance free detergent, don't use a drier sheet as the wax will get on your pillow case. Make sure you don't get your shampoo on your face when you shower. Don't touch your face with your hands if you have an itch, use a paper tissue or cotton swab. 

those are like trying to loose fat by trying to wash it off with water. its a bit extra hygene to make u feel clean thats all. does nothing to acne whatsoever. ony thing i agree with is dont scrub open wounds with dirty hands but ive done even that without any difference..

 

The Regimen absolutely works on preventing blackheads and clogged pores. It's frustrating for me to see people on the boards struggling when really all you need to do is The Regimen. It's really that simple. 

does it also work on existing clogged pores/blackheads? how long before they go away? is it ok to just use bp not whole regimen for this?



#37 alternativista

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:10 PM

I have a ton of blackheads everywhere and sometimes they become inflamed. It has been a long time and I've tried exfoliants and oil cleansing and they keep popping up. I don't think it could be caused by a topical because they were still there even when I tried just cleansing with oil, just cleansing with soapnuts, and just cleansing with stevia. 

 
My skin is not more oily because it's summer. Last summer my skin was not like this. I got to the point where I could go 8 hours without feeling oily and then I missed 4 birth control pills last month and I'm oily within the hour. I don't know if it's really because of missing the pills, but that's the only thing I can think of. 
 
My acne is not really different than what I had before. Before I did have much more inflamed acne, though.
 
I do not consume flax.

 
Are you positive you keep getting new blackheads?  They aren't the same blackheads?  Because they don't 'heal.'  they have to exfoliate away and this takes a really long time. Like a year even, unless you do things topically to accelerate the process like exfoliants or extractions or massaging them out with oil. 
 
I've not heard of blackheads becoming inflamed before.  Maybe your skin is irritated by something?
 
Yes, your skin could have gotten oilier from the major hormone fluctuation you had.
 
Spiro helps by being anti-androgenic.  If it worked for you, then look into other anti-androgenic things you can do, besides the avoidance of high glycemic meals and dairy that I assume you are doing. http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/230714-good-things-for-the-many-factors-that-lead-to-acne/?p=2574328 
 
Going from inflamed acne to just blackheads sounds like a great improvement to me.

Edited by alternativista, 14 July 2014 - 06:49 PM.


#38 cvd

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 05:02 PM

Blackheads can sometimes get inflamed which is part of the process of a clogged pore becoming infected with acne bacteria.  That said, lots of people with blackheads don't progress to inflamed lesions.  If you will or won't depends on many factors including skin type, hormones, sensitivity to acne bacteria, degree of general body inflammation, etc.  

 

Usually inflammatory acne develops after a pore is clogged with a tiny plug that is microscopic within the pore.  This tiny plug deprives the pore of oxygen which creates the perfect environment for acne bacteria to multiply.  Then inflammation and infection can begin which results in visible lesions.  Bigger plugs like blackheads can do it too.

 

This brings us to diet and Dan's regime.  Diet can help the body deal with inflammation better, lower inflammation, and help to balance hormones and hormonal reactions.  Consequently there is less oil so there are fewer plugs.  If a pore does get clogged and infected with acne bacteria the skin's reaction is less inflammatory because the whole body is calmer and not so reactive.  For some people diet alone is sufficient to control acne...skin plugs are then naturally expelled before serious inflammation sets in...hence less or no acne.

 

For other people diet is not enough.  I am one of those people.  I need some meds along with diet.  However meds alone did not get me clear...adding a whole foods diet and avoiding dairy-sugar-processed fats (very similar to Piagem) finally got me clear.  I went to many derms over the years (am 63 now) who said diet did not matter.  But I am living proof that diet does matter, that meds are not enough for some people and a good anti-acne diet can help tip the scale to clear skin.  

 

Dan writes about his regime helping.  It does this by using BP which opens up the pores, even clogged pores, to allow oxygen in which kills acne bacteria.  BP also helps dissolve the plugs.  I personally can't use BP topically because I have extremely sensitive skin but a BP cleanser works great and is gentle enough for my skin.  I also recommend microderms to help keep pores clear of dead skin which is part of what plugs are made of...that and oils.  

 

P.S.  Piagems --- I can not eat nuts of any kind.  They clog me up every time.  However other foods with natural fats are just fine for my skin (avocado, fish, etc.).  It was extremely hard for me to give up nuts so I did specific experiments where I'd eat nuts and record what happened versus when I avoided nuts.  For me, there was a definite increase in facial oil when I ate nuts and inflamed acne.  You may want to do a similar experiment and see what happens.  I hope that nuts (cashews) are not an issue for you.  I know they are a big component of many vegan type diets...but if they are an issue for you there are ways to still get needed calories and make delicious meals without them.


Edited by cvd, 14 July 2014 - 05:11 PM.


#39 Dan

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:09 AM

does it also work on existing clogged pores/blackheads? how long before they go away? is it ok to just use bp not whole regimen for this?

 

Yes. It should absolutely help hasten the removal of clogged pores and existing blackheads. For some people it is literally overnight that they see a change. For others it can take a few days. For super stubborn cases, it may take longer. I always suggest people follow The Regimen exactly as outlined until they are completely clear and happy with their skin. At that point you can try other stuff like only using the bp and not the whole regimen.

 

Also, once your skin is accustomed to bp, try adding in 10% glycolic acid in the form of either Acne.org AHA+ (highly recommended) or Alpha Hydrox Enhanced Lotion (will also do the trick but not quite as well). These 2 glycolic acid treatments will help quicken turnover of your skin and prevent future clogs. The combo of The Regimen plus glycolic acid will have your skin looking insanely good. Try it out.



#40 hoohoo

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:21 PM

Cut out the cashews, i had nuts before and it was one of the stuff that caused me acne.






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