Jump to content

Photo

Why The Bias?

natural remediesacne.org capitalism bias narrow minded drug pushing dan rant

62 replies to this topic

#21 Dan

Dan

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 4,643
    Gallery Images: 4
    Likes: 131
About Me
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Francisco, CA
  • Joined: 22-September 04

Achievements

     

Posted 22 April 2014 - 04:14 PM

My question is still this: WHY DOES THE HOLISTIC FORUM EXIST if it's not supported even by Dan himself? That is just a contradiction and undermines the potential all those intelligent contributions could make in informing people that acne is multifaceted and can be "cured" or kept under control through a variety of methods.

 

I am confused as to why you are stating that I do not support the holistic forum. Where and when did I say I do not support that forum? Far from not supporting it, I hope to some day find a way to cure acne using only organic, natural methods and I'm glad debate continues in this area. As I stated above, I am open to this. 

 

As far as why I responded, Brandy let me know about this thread and asked me to take a look.



#22 WishClean

WishClean

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 1,818
    Likes: 369
About Me
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:movies, traveling, media studies, teaching, research, integrative medicine, acupuncture, exercise, healthy lifestyle
  • Joined: 06-November 11

Achievements

     

Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:30 PM

My question is still this: WHY DOES THE HOLISTIC FORUM EXIST if it's not supported even by Dan himself? That is just a contradiction and undermines the potential all those intelligent contributions could make in informing people that acne is multifaceted and can be "cured" or kept under control through a variety of methods.

 

I am confused as to why you are stating that I do not support the holistic forum. Where and when did I say I do not support that forum? Far from not supporting it, I hope to some day find a way to cure acne using only organic, natural methods and I'm glad debate continues in this area. As I stated above, I am open to this. 

 

As far as why I responded, Brandy let me know about this thread and asked me to take a look.

 

It was my impression (and the others who agreed) that the "largely ineffective"label for natural/home remedies was dismissive to the purpose of the holistic forum. So I guess it's a good thing you took the time to respond and clarify. You should take a look at the compilation of success stories on the holistic forum and see that there is some merit to alternative approaches ...just because not many institutions and no corporations choose to fund such studies, doesn't mean that these approaches are largely ineffective. Ironically, the site where most of the anecdotal evidence for such alternative approaches exists is acne.org...that's why I thought it was ironic that the ideology of the site dismisses the so-called "home" remedies as largely ineffective. 

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond and state your side. I see your point even if I am not convinced. I would be happy to read those hard facts on the long term safety of bp and accutane, if there are any, so please send them my way when and if you find them.

And if you decide to create a more natural line of products, then I'll start spending some $$ in addition to the time I spend on this site. With your resources and the fact that you managed to turn your regimen into a brand, I'm sure if you wanted to you could develop a more natural line of products backed up with the proper research to make them marketable. 

 

PS. I noticed that heat therapy is rated higher than home remedies. http://www.acne.org/treatments.html  is this hierarchy determined? This is like putting all home remedies under a blanket statement, and heat therapy under another whereas in fact there are numerous different home therapies and different heat therapies. 

On that note, I guess vitamins/ supplements and diet are either part of the "home remedies" umbrella or completely omitted from the hierarchy. Why is that? 

 

In any case, I think that page needs some editing...it's usually the first thing a first user will click on if they are unfamiliar with the forums and basically they are given 2 options: the regimen or the more extreme option, accutane. So naturally they will pick the regimen first since the 2nd option is more extreme as you say. But there are in between options that are not given valid credit further down this hierarchy. And while I'm glad to see that antibiotics are not highly rated either, that "largely ineffective" thing bothers me still. Call me nit picky, but you have to acknowledge the influence your site and your brand has on impressionable and desperate acne sufferers.


Edited by WishClean, 22 April 2014 - 11:06 PM.


#23 alternativista

alternativista

    Senior Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 11,514
    Likes: 1,093
About Me
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Joined: 13-February 07

Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:41 AM

I wouldn't call it a bias--if natural/holistic cures haven't worked for most people, they will say so. For me, I completely changed my lifestyle to try to manage acne. I already exercised five days a week and got at least eight hours of sleep at night, but I started yoga and eating an almost 100% clean/whole foods/vegan diet. No dairy, little to no sugar, no processed or refined foods for months--and it didn't do a thing for my acne.

 

The only things that have worked for me were BP and now Accutane. So I'm not biased against a clean lifestyle--in fact, I still follow it--but it didn't work for me, and it looks like it didn't work for many others either. It's not a bias, it's just a fact.

 

 

Except that diet & lifestyle does work for many.  Very well.  In fact, I began changing my diet after reading post after post from Atkins dieters saying the diet cleared their skin. After arguing with them for a while about how diet has no affect on acne, I began to do my own research & learned about the post prandial effects of high glycemic impacting diets & just 'got' that humans can't be eating this now typical diet. And it's why we are surrounded by sickly people.   (Not an endorsement of Atkins or statement that it or low carb is  the diet to follow for clear skin.  What you need is a low to moderate glycemmic impacting, anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense diet that doesn't include anything you have an intolerance for.  Basically, the opposite of the SAD diet.)

 

And the South Beach Diet did a survey of dieters and found that over 80% of the dieters had clearer skin as a result of the lower glycemic diet habits. (Again, not an endorsement of the diet, only mentioned because it's an example of a hell of a lot of people finding that diet changes improved their skin.  Also, the diet was created by a very important cardiologist.  A conventional doctor. But one that knows that diet is not only the best prevention & treatment for disease, it affects acne. one of several such doctors, although there are clearly not enough of them.)

 

And accutane does not work for many. If it did, why are there so many "about to start accutane for the 2nd (or third, or fourth, or fifth) time"  and 'my acne came back with a a vengeance" threads.  And many on the nutrition board that tried accutane, myself included.

 

Most of the people on the nutrition board went to dermatologists & took their drugs & used OTC topicals for years. 



Who will fund those studies exactly? Noone will profit from studying the effects of nutrition and supplements, which is why pharmaceutical companies do no sponsor those studies. It's a very money oriented business.....

 

Except that there have been many studies into the various factors that lead to acne, the various nutrients that affect those factors, and even on diets that affect acne. 

 

And you are forgetting that drugs used to be the alternative treatment because natural remedies were there long before medication and chemical topicals. Even accutane is based on the effects of vitamin A on the body but, typical of western medicine, it is an extreme treatment and as these forums show, not even effective some people who are on their 2nd, 3rd or 4th course.

 

Yep.  2 courses here, no improvement. 



Regarding diet and holistic home remedies in particular, I do think they are "largely ineffective." This means to me that the vast majority of them are ineffective. I chose the term "largely ineffective" because I didn't want to just say "ineffective" since there may be some isolated incidences where some holistic remedies work for some people. I remain open to something holistic and organic that can clear acne and will be the first to champion anything that empircally shows real world results and accessibility. However, I have yet to see that. There are case reports of home remedies or diets working at least somewhat for some people, but there are no diets or home remedies that completely clear the skin across the population that I am aware of. Case reports are simply not enough to say these things are "effective."

 

But the topicals & accutane don't "completely clear the skin across the population" yet you call them effective. 

 

And there is evidence and there has been a thread filled with links to studies in the forum for years. You've even found some. Yet because you haven't found one study citing one cause, you discount them all.  The thing is, there isn't one cause.  Acne is a multifactorial condition.  The body is a system.  Nothing happens in isolation.


Edited by alternativista, 23 April 2014 - 11:26 AM.


#24 alternativista

alternativista

    Senior Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 11,514
    Likes: 1,093
About Me
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Joined: 13-February 07

Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:53 AM

I would also like to point out that Home Remedies, and holistic/nutrition/health shouldn't be so lumped together.  And they have varying degrees of effectiveness from very effective, to, as you say, largely ineffective.

 

Home remedies could be DIY topicals such as dabbing toothpaste or calamine lotion on a pimple. Or dissolving an aspirin rather than buying a salicylic acid product which is fairly  effective, btw.  It's what I do the rare occasion I get an inflamed pimple. Reduces redness & shrinks it right down.  Although, with my anti-inflammatory diet, what few pimples I get are much smaller, less inflamed and heal quickly. No point in keeping bottles of stuff around the expire before I even make a dent in the contents.


Edited by alternativista, 23 April 2014 - 05:11 PM.


#25 WishClean

WishClean

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 1,818
    Likes: 369
About Me
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:movies, traveling, media studies, teaching, research, integrative medicine, acupuncture, exercise, healthy lifestyle
  • Joined: 06-November 11

Achievements

     

Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:56 PM

And let's not forget the wonders a correctly followed paleo diet and/or an antihistamine diet can do to the skin. It really depends on what the cause(s) of each person's acne is. Usually, topicals and accutane are a crutch, they don't fix profound internal problems. They just mute the body's way of signaling (=producing acne) that there is something wrong internally. The serious posters on the holistic forum try to look at the body as a whole and find the causes for the acne, not just treat the symptom itself. And usually they discover more serious health issues that needed to be addressed, as I did.  



#26 Kim0728

Kim0728

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 85
    Likes: 10
About Me
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California,USA
  • Interests:Reading, watching movies, wine tasting and skin care (I'm a reluctant skin care news/info maven)
  • Joined: 11-March 14

Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:47 PM

For every "Accutane didn't work for me" comment there are multiple success stories that run up against that. And eating clean for me might have made a small difference--it just didn't clear my skin completely. So there was some success there for me personally, just not the complete clearing I am getting from other methods. I've visited many threads on many boards and have found them fascinating and thought-provoking. The singular message I gleaned from all of this is that there is not one single method that is a cure-all for everyone--and isn't it wonderful that we have so many options? :)



#27 alternativista

alternativista

    Senior Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 11,514
    Likes: 1,093
About Me
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Joined: 13-February 07

Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:18 PM

For every "Accutane didn't work for me" comment there are multiple success stories that run up against that. And eating clean for me might have made a small difference--it just didn't clear my skin completely. So there was some success there for me personally, just not the complete clearing I am getting from other methods. I've visited many threads on many boards and have found them fascinating and thought-provoking. The singular message I gleaned from all of this is that there is not one single method that is a cure-all for everyone--and isn't it wonderful that we have so many options? smile.png

 

Yes.  But the issue is that one option, the best option, has been labeled as 'largely ineffective.'



#28 dscully

dscully

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 156
    Likes: 49
About Me
  • Joined: 24-December 13

Achievements

     

Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:32 PM

People can say natural remedies are ineffective, but I'm going out in the daylight with 100% clear skin, so that ends that argument. I say this as a former BP addict. It took me forever before I could psychologically give up the ubiquitous 10% cream.

My favorite cosmetics are sunlight, jojoba oil, epsom salt baths, plenty of sleep, and lots of vegetable juice, and...

 

let's be real people...

 

Stila Convertible Color in "poppy" because what woman honestly goes out with zero makeup on? It makes me look polished and doesn't contain freaky chemicals.



100% natural, baby! Call it a niche, or whatever you want to call it... We are curing our acne; Everyone else is just treating the symptoms.



#29 TemperateCent

TemperateCent

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 150
    Likes: 21
About Me
  • Joined: 02-July 13

Posted 23 April 2014 - 05:27 PM

For every "Accutane didn't work for me" comment there are multiple success stories that run up against that. And eating clean for me might have made a small difference--it just didn't clear my skin completely. So there was some success there for me personally, just not the complete clearing I am getting from other methods. I've visited many threads on many boards and have found them fascinating and thought-provoking. The singular message I gleaned from all of this is that there is not one single method that is a cure-all for everyone--and isn't it wonderful that we have so many options?

 

Yes.  But the issue is that one option, the best option, has been labeled as 'largely ineffective.'

 

I hope this is a joke. And did someone really say the paleo diet works for acne? This is not real science.



#30 WishClean

WishClean

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 1,818
    Likes: 369
About Me
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:movies, traveling, media studies, teaching, research, integrative medicine, acupuncture, exercise, healthy lifestyle
  • Joined: 06-November 11

Achievements

     

Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:59 PM

What is real science to you? Weren't you the one saying you didn't want to take accutane because you were afraid of side effects? Well, then why not try one of these diets and skip the accutane? You are just angry because you couldn't figure out a way to make your acne go away naturally, and now you are bashing everyone who has. 


Edited by WishClean, 23 April 2014 - 07:01 PM.


#31 Twosteps

Twosteps

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 50
    Likes: 10
About Me
  • Joined: 12-September 13

Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:01 PM

I think the type of acne plays the biggest role in how effective a treatment will be.  An adult with bad nodular acne will probably benefit from accutane. On the other hand, taking accutane for mild/moderate acne is probably overkill.  ID the kind of pimples you get and then work out why.  Teenagers with mild/moderate acne are going through puberty and could probably benefit from using BP for a few years until they "grow out of it".  As you start getting into your twenties you should consider environmental and lifestyle factors that are causing your acne.  I think for accutane the general rule of thumb should be if your pimples hurt you should consider it.  Diet probably won't do much for a teenager with raging hormones.

 

I tried a bunch of diets and didn't get clear (got worse) but I became much more aware of what I put in my body which is a huge positive.  I stopped using cleansers and chemicals on my face and I'm doing much, much better.  I have no problem with Dan promoting his own product since BP probably gets the most consistent results for teenagers and young people who only have acne for a few years.  I think he is a little liberal with his promotion of accutane (it's best for nodular acne) but it is his call in the end.  

 

My guess is most people who are forum members are in their late teens or older but the majority of acne.org site visitors are teenagers.  For this reason, Dan says BP is the most effective treatment.  If BP can help teenagers combat the symptoms of acne for a little while during their formative years I'm all for it.


Edited by Twosteps, 23 April 2014 - 08:02 PM.


#32 TemperateCent

TemperateCent

    Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 150
    Likes: 21
About Me
  • Joined: 02-July 13

Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:48 PM

What is real science to you? Weren't you the one saying you didn't want to take accutane because you were afraid of side effects? Well, then why not try one of these diets and skip the accutane? You are just angry because you couldn't figure out a way to make your acne go away naturally, and now you are bashing everyone who has. 

 


Yes, I am afraid of the side effects. There is real science behind how Accutane works, however, and the evidence online about it working is scientifically proven. Unlike the natural methods.... I have tried the "natural" methods for years and it didn't do anything for acne.

 

It's funny that you're assuming that I'm angry, however. I'm not angry. I just don't like people pushing quack science. Why isn't you acne cleared by now from your natural methods? Why can most people eat fast food and not get acne?



#33 ThisUser

ThisUser

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 67
    Likes: 8
About Me
  • Joined: 22-May 10

Achievements

     

Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:15 PM

l


Edited by ThisUser, 23 April 2014 - 09:24 PM.


#34 WishClean

WishClean

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 1,818
    Likes: 369
About Me
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:movies, traveling, media studies, teaching, research, integrative medicine, acupuncture, exercise, healthy lifestyle
  • Joined: 06-November 11

Achievements

     

Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:45 PM

First of all, when I make claims I back them up with studies that show effectiveness. I also back up my theories with my own experience and research. I have a doctorate and I know how to do productive research as well as how to use my own judgment. 

Statistics are nothing in this case because, as stated before, alternative treatments are not deemed worthy enough by pharmaceutical companies to be quantified into data. But still, there are studies on the impact of some vitamins on acne, specifically B5,B8, and vitamin A - which is where Roche got the idea, from an old vitamin remedy. Most synthetic drugs are actually synthetic forms of those "home" remedies you are so judgmental of. Where do you think the raw material come from? Another planet?

 

I didn't say you are sick and unhealthy...but everyone could be healthier. And the fact that diet and whatever else you consider natural has failed you just means you weren't following the right kind of regimen for your body. Healthy means a variety of things, and not all of those will fit you. I tried every kind of topical, antibiotic, and hormonal pills before seeing what they did to my body, so I am here to inform people who are willing to be receptive to other methods. 



I think the type of acne plays the biggest role in how effective a treatment will be.  An adult with bad nodular acne will probably benefit from accutane. On the other hand, taking accutane for mild/moderate acne is probably overkill.  ID the kind of pimples you get and then work out why.  Teenagers with mild/moderate acne are going through puberty and could probably benefit from using BP for a few years until they "grow out of it".  As you start getting into your twenties you should consider environmental and lifestyle factors that are causing your acne.  I think for accutane the general rule of thumb should be if your pimples hurt you should consider it.  Diet probably won't do much for a teenager with raging hormones.

 

I tried a bunch of diets and didn't get clear (got worse) but I became much more aware of what I put in my body which is a huge positive.  I stopped using cleansers and chemicals on my face and I'm doing much, much better.  I have no problem with Dan promoting his own product since BP probably gets the most consistent results for teenagers and young people who only have acne for a few years.  I think he is a little liberal with his promotion of accutane (it's best for nodular acne) but it is his call in the end.  

 

My guess is most people who are forum members are in their late teens or older but the majority of acne.org site visitors are teenagers.  For this reason, Dan says BP is the most effective treatment.  If BP can help teenagers combat the symptoms of acne for a little while during their formative years I'm all for it.

Yes, I see your point here and you stated it well, unlike some other arguments posted below yours. 

I got worse with some diets too...they just weren't right for me and I had to get extensive blood work to figure out what my issue was with diet. It's all about finding the right regimen for you, as I was saying before. 

Well, the BP I tried it in the past and my skin became dependent on it and I also developed a sensitivity to it. It's good for marketing purposes to advertise something that needs to be used long term and cannot be abruptly stopped otherwise the acne returns. But Dan made it clear that it's an ongoing treatment. I was looking for something that will prevent the acne from forming, not keep it at bay when used every day. 

Acne conglobata might be the only thing that accutane should be reserved for, and perhaps severe cases of nodular acne. But many accutane posts come from users with mild acne...I had doctors push accutane when my acne was mild and they made it seem as though I had no other options. 

Anyway, as I said numerous times before, I am here to show people that there are other options and did not like the way some people dismissed natural cures and the stories of those who got clear doing it their own way. 



 

Yes.  But the issue is that one option, the best option, has been labeled as 'largely ineffective.'

 ^^^ THIS WAS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS THREAD. Thanks for restating it.



And in case you are not familiar with my story, take a look at my progress photos. No drugs, no topicals, just research, forums, trial and error, and lots of persistence. https://imageshack.c...r/WishClean28/a


Edited by WishClean, 23 April 2014 - 09:29 PM.


#35 ThisUser

ThisUser

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 67
    Likes: 8
About Me
  • Joined: 22-May 10

Achievements

     

Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:56 PM

Do those who promote natural alternatives even have real acne? Because people with legitimately serious acne are going to do what works. When you can get clear with something like the regimen or suffer through debilitating acne as a permanent guinea pig for holistic experiments, the choice is obvious. The search for plausible natural alternatives is as promising as the search for the Holy Grail.

I welcome you all to study natural alternatives and I genuinely hope we get to a point in the future in which these can be deemed effective. But as of now they're not. Most success stories consist of hearsay from someone's cousin's friend's aunt. Natural remedies simply aren't working for adult inflammatory acne. And I wish I could say otherwise.

Edited by ThisUser, 23 April 2014 - 10:00 PM.


#36 WishClean

WishClean

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 1,818
    Likes: 369
About Me
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:movies, traveling, media studies, teaching, research, integrative medicine, acupuncture, exercise, healthy lifestyle
  • Joined: 06-November 11

Achievements

     

Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:04 PM

Do those who promote natural alternatives even have real acne? Because people with legitimately serious acne are going to do what works. When you can get clear with something like the regimen or suffer through debilitating acne as a guinea pig for holistic experiments, the choice is obvious. The search for plausible natural alternatives is as promising as the search for the Holy Grail.

I welcome you all to study natural alternatives and I genuinely hope we get to a point in the future in which these can be deemed effective. But as of now they're not. Most success stories consist of hearsay from someone's cousin's friend's aunt. Natural remedies simply aren't working for adult inflammatory acne. And I wish I could say otherwise.

Did you see my photos? Click the link above if you haven't and then you can say whatever you want. If that wasn't "real acne" I don't know what is. I am not a teenager, I am an adult and I had adult acne. What do you have to say about that? The fact that some people on this site mocked me a year ago when I was struggling made me even more persistent to find a treatment that wasn't hard on my body. Part of the reason for the acne was all the bullshit I was prescribed throughout the years that weakened my immune system and caused digestive and gut issues. 

 

Integrative medicine is becoming widely accepted in the medical community, which shows that these "holy grail" alternatives are slowly becoming incorporated into the field. Maybe in the future the pharmaceutical companies will think of ways to capitalize on them, just as the supplements industry is doing right now. 


Edited by WishClean, 23 April 2014 - 10:04 PM.


#37 Kim0728

Kim0728

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 85
    Likes: 10
About Me
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California,USA
  • Interests:Reading, watching movies, wine tasting and skin care (I'm a reluctant skin care news/info maven)
  • Joined: 11-March 14

Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:28 PM

Do those who promote natural alternatives even have real acne? Because people with legitimately serious acne are going to do what works. When you can get clear with something like the regimen or suffer through debilitating acne as a permanent guinea pig for holistic experiments, the choice is obvious. The search for plausible natural alternatives is as promising as the search for the Holy Grail.
I welcome you all to study natural alternatives and I genuinely hope we get to a point in the future in which these can be deemed effective. But as of now they're not. Most success stories consist of hearsay from someone's cousin's friend's aunt. Natural remedies simply aren't working for adult inflammatory acne. And I wish I could say otherwise.


Very well put! I live a very healthy lifestyle and since I've started eating clean, I've felt a lot better. But unfortunately there was no significant change in my acne. I wish there would have been.

#38 WishClean

WishClean

    Veteran Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 1,818
    Likes: 369
About Me
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Florida
  • Interests:movies, traveling, media studies, teaching, research, integrative medicine, acupuncture, exercise, healthy lifestyle
  • Joined: 06-November 11

Achievements

     

Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:55 PM

The point of the thread was to give other approaches a chance through the rhetoric of this site, particularly the labeling. It wasn't meant to start a debate about diets and whether or not they work. But of course, if you tried what you consider a healthy diet (healthy is very broadly and subjectively defined) and it failed you, then there are 2 reasons for it:

1. It wasn't the right diet for you

2. Your acne is not diet related. It could be hormonal, bacterial, or something else.There are non-drug related remedies for those too. 

 

I addressed both my food sensitivities and hormonal imbalances by identifying the types of acne I had and the symptoms, and my medical history. I used supplements, herbs, a very specific diet (not the popular ones on the diet forum either, just my own customizable meal plans based on bloodwork results), skin balancing and other stuff listed in my signature. I was very methodical about it and yes, I made errors along the way...experiments fail sometimes, but I was convinced that there were other options because I had done it before. So to whoever thinks holistic healing is non scientific, take a look at my posts and my approach and see that there is science behind it. Not a narrow-minded definition of science, a broader understanding of how science and holistic methods can work synergistically to discover what and why triggers acne. And btw, there is a field called NUTRIGENETICS that is specifically concerned with the impact of nutrient deficiencies on the body. 

 My progress in pictures: https://imageshack.c...r/WishClean28/a



#39 ThisUser

ThisUser

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 67
    Likes: 8
About Me
  • Joined: 22-May 10

Achievements

     

Posted 24 April 2014 - 06:11 AM

As WishClean demonstrated, my comment about holistic supporters not having "real acne" was inaccurate. So I sincerely apologize for my broad blanket statement.

I have tried MANY of these treatments myself with minimal results. And it seems that I only hear stray stories of these remedies actually working. But I DO appreciate those who genuinely explore natural treatments. I hope in the future there is some way we can make these work and cure acne naturally. So, people like WishClean dedicating time to test these treatments is important.

Just wanted to clarify. Even though I think alternative methods are not yet effective for the mainstream, I hope we get to a point in which they are.

#40 alternativista

alternativista

    Senior Member

  • Veteran Members
  • Posts & Likes
    Posts: 11,514
    Likes: 1,093
About Me
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Joined: 13-February 07

Posted 24 April 2014 - 07:31 AM

And if they do work with someone, it is more often than not that they won't work on the next person.

 

Much like with pharmaceuticals.




Just wanted to clarify. Even though I think alternative methods are not yet effective for the mainstream, I hope we get to a point in which they are.

 

That makes no sense.  How would we 'get to a point?'  What kind of super industrialized process do you imagine is necessary to get us to that point?  They already are affective and always have been.  



I think the type of acne plays the biggest role in how effective a treatment will be.  An adult with bad nodular acne will probably benefit from accutane. On the other hand, taking accutane for mild/moderate acne is probably overkill.  ID the kind of pimples you get and then work out why.  Teenagers with mild/moderate acne are going through puberty and could probably benefit from using BP for a few years until they "grow out of it".  As you start getting into your twenties you should consider environmental and lifestyle factors that are causing your acne.  I think for accutane the general rule of thumb should be if your pimples hurt you should consider it.  Diet probably won't do much for a teenager with raging hormones.

 

Sorry. But I had severe nodular acne. And grotesquely oily skin and other forms of inflamed & noninflamed acne.  2 Courses of accutane and a decade of antibiotics & topicals did nothing for me.  My diet, on otherhand, cleared my skin & keeps it clear. 

 

The reason accutane didn't help the nodules is because they were a reaction to a food intolerance.  As I believe they tend to be and are not true acne at all. Especially in adults.  And regardless, the best treatment for inflamed acne is an anti-inflammatory diet.  Now, on the rare occasions when I do get a reaction that results in a nodule formation, it is far smaller, less inflamed and heals far faster than before I learned the truth about diet.

 

But I will agree that diet won't stop puberty. All it can do is ease it.  There are plenty of researchers with theories & evidence that puberty should not be such a dramatic & traumatic process which occurs earlier & earlier due to diet & chemical exposure.



Why can most people eat fast food and not get acne?

 

Sigh.  Because they don't have the various  genetic tendencies that cause them to get acne. 

 

Tell us about your diet.  I've found very few have any clue what a healthy diet is.



Do those who promote natural alternatives even have real acne?

 

Yes.

 

Because people with legitimately serious acne are going to do what works. When you can get clear with something like the regimen or suffer through debilitating acne as a permanent guinea pig for holistic experiments, the choice is obvious.

 

Yep, and so I spent a decade going to several dermatologists, taking their drugs including 2 courses of accutane, and listening to them tell me diet has nothing to do with acne.  They never helped one bit.  Nor did OTC topicals like BP.  Waste of money and waste of chemicals and trash in the environment.   Salicylic acid I think is a good topical, but it wasn't so common then.

 

But then I discovered the food intolerance that caused the worst of my severe nodular acne, eliminated the food, and it went away. When I told my dermatologist, he was completely uninterested.  I never went to a derms again until I developed rosacea.  I was given expensive prescription topical. When it ran out, I discovered aloe vera gel worked just as well.  Later, I learned diet worked even better.

 


I welcome you all to study natural alternatives and I genuinely hope we get to a point in the future in which these can be deemed effective. But as of now they're not.

Well, I appreciate that.  But I don't need someone else to deem them effective for me.  I eat the way humans are meant to eat and thus have clear skin and am not one of the sickly masses.

 

 

 Natural remedies simply aren't working for adult inflammatory acne.

 

Wrong.  And we have evidence from University & other industry research and stories that come from members of this board. Not someone's great aunt. So wrong there to.

 

 

The search for plausible natural alternatives is as promising as the search for the Holy Grail.

 

God.  Comments like that make me despair that we'll ever get out of this insane mindset that sickness is due to a lack of drugs. 



 
I have tried MANY of these treatments myself with minimal results. And it seems that I only hear stray stories of these remedies actually working. But I DO appreciate those who genuinely explore natural treatments. I hope in the future there is some way we can make these work and cure acne naturally. So, people like WishClean dedicating time to test these treatments is important.

Just wanted to clarify. Even though I think alternative methods are not yet effective for the mainstream, I hope we get to a point in which they are.

 

The future is now.  We have hundreds of stories on the nutrition board. Come on over if you want to learn.  We'll discuss your diet & habits and find your solution

 

Health is not an 'alternative' method and the mainstream is exactly who they are effective for. 

 

But I want to be clear that we acne prone people are not any more unhealthy than the clear skinned people around us. They are unhealthy too, they just don't get the symptom of acne.  Numerous genetic traits have been identified that cause our pores to clog and not theirs. You can read about it in the research on the Nutrition & Holistic board.  Also on the old research board, if that hadn't been removed.  


Edited by alternativista, 24 April 2014 - 09:51 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users