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I think the type of acne plays the biggest role in how effective a treatment will be. An adult with bad nodular acne will probably benefit from accutane. On the other hand, taking accutane for mild/moderate acne is probably overkill. ID the kind of pimples you get and then work out why. Teenagers with mild/moderate acne are going through puberty and could probably benefit from using BP for a few years until they "grow out of it". As you start getting into your twenties you should consider environmental and lifestyle factors that are causing your acne. I think for accutane the general rule of thumb should be if your pimples hurt you should consider it. Diet probably won't do much for a teenager with raging hormones.

I tried a bunch of diets and didn't get clear (got worse) but I became much more aware of what I put in my body which is a huge positive. I stopped using cleansers and chemicals on my face and I'm doing much, much better. I have no problem with Dan promoting his own product since BP probably gets the most consistent results for teenagers and young people who only have acne for a few years. I think he is a little liberal with his promotion of accutane (it's best for nodular acne) but it is his call in the end.

My guess is most people who are forum members are in their late teens or older but the majority of acne.org site visitors are teenagers. For this reason, Dan says BP is the most effective treatment. If BP can help teenagers combat the symptoms of acne for a little while during their formative years I'm all for it.

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First of all, when I make claims I back them up with studies that show effectiveness. I also back up my theories with my own experience and research. I have a doctorate and I know how to do productive research as well as how to use my own judgment.

Statistics are nothing in this case because, as stated before, alternative treatments are not deemed worthy enough by pharmaceutical companies to be quantified into data. But still, there are studies on the impact of some vitamins on acne, specifically B5,B8, and vitamin A - which is where Roche got the idea, from an old vitamin remedy. Most synthetic drugs are actually synthetic forms of those "home" remedies you are so judgmental of. Where do you think the raw material come from? Another planet?

I didn't say you are sick and unhealthy...but everyone could be healthier. And the fact that diet and whatever else you consider natural has failed you just means you weren't following the right kind of regimen for your body. Healthy means a variety of things, and not all of those will fit you. I tried every kind of topical, antibiotic, and hormonal pills before seeing what they did to my body, so I am here to inform people who are willing to be receptive to other methods.

I think the type of acne plays the biggest role in how effective a treatment will be. An adult with bad nodular acne will probably benefit from accutane. On the other hand, taking accutane for mild/moderate acne is probably overkill. ID the kind of pimples you get and then work out why. Teenagers with mild/moderate acne are going through puberty and could probably benefit from using BP for a few years until they "grow out of it". As you start getting into your twenties you should consider environmental and lifestyle factors that are causing your acne. I think for accutane the general rule of thumb should be if your pimples hurt you should consider it. Diet probably won't do much for a teenager with raging hormones.

I tried a bunch of diets and didn't get clear (got worse) but I became much more aware of what I put in my body which is a huge positive. I stopped using cleansers and chemicals on my face and I'm doing much, much better. I have no problem with Dan promoting his own product since BP probably gets the most consistent results for teenagers and young people who only have acne for a few years. I think he is a little liberal with his promotion of accutane (it's best for nodular acne) but it is his call in the end.

My guess is most people who are forum members are in their late teens or older but the majority of acne.org site visitors are teenagers. For this reason, Dan says BP is the most effective treatment. If BP can help teenagers combat the symptoms of acne for a little while during their formative years I'm all for it.


Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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Do those who promote natural alternatives even have real acne? Because people with legitimately serious acne are going to do what works. When you can get clear with something like the regimen or suffer through debilitating acne as a permanent guinea pig for holistic experiments, the choice is obvious. The search for plausible natural alternatives is as promising as the search for the Holy Grail.

I welcome you all to study natural alternatives and I genuinely hope we get to a point in the future in which these can be deemed effective. But as of now they're not. Most success stories consist of hearsay from someone's cousin's friend's aunt. Natural remedies simply aren't working for adult inflammatory acne. And I wish I could say otherwise.

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Do those who promote natural alternatives even have real acne? Because people with legitimately serious acne are going to do what works. When you can get clear with something like the regimen or suffer through debilitating acne as a guinea pig for holistic experiments, the choice is obvious. The search for plausible natural alternatives is as promising as the search for the Holy Grail.

I welcome you all to study natural alternatives and I genuinely hope we get to a point in the future in which these can be deemed effective. But as of now they're not. Most success stories consist of hearsay from someone's cousin's friend's aunt. Natural remedies simply aren't working for adult inflammatory acne. And I wish I could say otherwise.

Did you see my photos? Click the link above if you haven't and then you can say whatever you want. If that wasn't "real acne" I don't know what is. I am not a teenager, I am an adult and I had adult acne. What do you have to say about that? The fact that some people on this site mocked me a year ago when I was struggling made me even more persistent to find a treatment that wasn't hard on my body. Part of the reason for the acne was all the bullshit I was prescribed throughout the years that weakened my immune system and caused digestive and gut issues.

Integrative medicine is becoming widely accepted in the medical community, which shows that these "holy grail" alternatives are slowly becoming incorporated into the field. Maybe in the future the pharmaceutical companies will think of ways to capitalize on them, just as the supplements industry is doing right now.

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Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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Do those who promote natural alternatives even have real acne? Because people with legitimately serious acne are going to do what works. When you can get clear with something like the regimen or suffer through debilitating acne as a permanent guinea pig for holistic experiments, the choice is obvious. The search for plausible natural alternatives is as promising as the search for the Holy Grail.

I welcome you all to study natural alternatives and I genuinely hope we get to a point in the future in which these can be deemed effective. But as of now they're not. Most success stories consist of hearsay from someone's cousin's friend's aunt. Natural remedies simply aren't working for adult inflammatory acne. And I wish I could say otherwise.

Very well put! I live a very healthy lifestyle and since I've started eating clean, I've felt a lot better. But unfortunately there was no significant change in my acne. I wish there would have been.


Month One: 40 mg Zenatane, taken with breakfast

Month Two: 60 mg Zenatane, one taken w/lunch, one w/dinner

Month Three: 80 mg Zenatane, one taken w/lunch, one w/dinner

Skin care regimen:

a.m.: Paula's Choice acne wash Olay foaming face wash for sensitive skin, PC Hydralight toner, PC 2% BHA exfoliant, PC skin balancing antioxidant serum, PC Hydralight moisturizer and Resist SPF 30 moisturizer

p.m.: Kirkland cleansing wipes, Paula's Choice acne wash Olay foaming face wash for sensitive skin, PC Hydralight toner, PC 2% BHA, PC Skin Replenishing moisturizer

Supplements: calcium, fish oil, B12, and D3


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The point of the thread was to give other approaches a chance through the rhetoric of this site, particularly the labeling. It wasn't meant to start a debate about diets and whether or not they work. But of course, if you tried what you consider a healthy diet (healthy is very broadly and subjectively defined) and it failed you, then there are 2 reasons for it:

1. It wasn't the right diet for you

2. Your acne is not diet related. It could be hormonal, bacterial, or something else.There are non-drug related remedies for those too.

I addressed both my food sensitivities and hormonal imbalances by identifying the types of acne I had and the symptoms, and my medical history. I used supplements, herbs, a very specific diet (not the popular ones on the diet forum either, just my own customizable meal plans based on bloodwork results), skin balancing and other stuff listed in my signature. I was very methodical about it and yes, I made errors along the way...experiments fail sometimes, but I was convinced that there were other options because I had done it before. So to whoever thinks holistic healing is non scientific, take a look at my posts and my approach and see that there is science behind it. Not a narrow-minded definition of science, a broader understanding of how science and holistic methods can work synergistically to discover what and why triggers acne. And btw, there is a field called NUTRIGENETICS that is specifically concerned with the impact of nutrient deficiencies on the body.

My progress in pictures: https://imageshack.c...r/WishClean28/a


Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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As WishClean demonstrated, my comment about holistic supporters not having "real acne" was inaccurate. So I sincerely apologize for my broad blanket statement.

I have tried MANY of these treatments myself with minimal results. And it seems that I only hear stray stories of these remedies actually working. But I DO appreciate those who genuinely explore natural treatments. I hope in the future there is some way we can make these work and cure acne naturally. So, people like WishClean dedicating time to test these treatments is important.

Just wanted to clarify. Even though I think alternative methods are not yet effective for the mainstream, I hope we get to a point in which they are.

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And if they do work with someone, it is more often than not that they won't work on the next person.

Much like with pharmaceuticals.

Just wanted to clarify. Even though I think alternative methods are not yet effective for the mainstream, I hope we get to a point in which they are.

That makes no sense. How would we 'get to a point?' What kind of super industrialized process do you imagine is necessary to get us to that point? They already are affective and always have been.

I think the type of acne plays the biggest role in how effective a treatment will be. An adult with bad nodular acne will probably benefit from accutane. On the other hand, taking accutane for mild/moderate acne is probably overkill. ID the kind of pimples you get and then work out why. Teenagers with mild/moderate acne are going through puberty and could probably benefit from using BP for a few years until they "grow out of it". As you start getting into your twenties you should consider environmental and lifestyle factors that are causing your acne. I think for accutane the general rule of thumb should be if your pimples hurt you should consider it. Diet probably won't do much for a teenager with raging hormones.

Sorry. But I had severe nodular acne. And grotesquely oily skin and other forms of inflamed & noninflamed acne. 2 Courses of accutane and a decade of antibiotics & topicals did nothing for me. My diet, on otherhand, cleared my skin & keeps it clear.

The reason accutane didn't help the nodules is because they were a reaction to a food intolerance. As I believe they tend to be and are not true acne at all. Especially in adults. And regardless, the best treatment for inflamed acne is an anti-inflammatory diet. Now, on the rare occasions when I do get a reaction that results in a nodule formation, it is far smaller, less inflamed and heals far faster than before I learned the truth about diet.

But I will agree that diet won't stop puberty. All it can do is ease it. There are plenty of researchers with theories & evidence that puberty should not be such a dramatic & traumatic process which occurs earlier & earlier due to diet & chemical exposure.

Why can most people eat fast food and not get acne?

Sigh. Because they don't have the various genetic tendencies that cause them to get acne.

Tell us about your diet. I've found very few have any clue what a healthy diet is.

Do those who promote natural alternatives even have real acne?

Yes.

Because people with legitimately serious acne are going to do what works. When you can get clear with something like the regimen or suffer through debilitating acne as a permanent guinea pig for holistic experiments, the choice is obvious.

Yep, and so I spent a decade going to several dermatologists, taking their drugs including 2 courses of accutane, and listening to them tell me diet has nothing to do with acne. They never helped one bit. Nor did OTC topicals like BP. Waste of money and waste of chemicals and trash in the environment. Salicylic acid I think is a good topical, but it wasn't so common then.

But then I discovered the food intolerance that caused the worst of my severe nodular acne, eliminated the food, and it went away. When I told my dermatologist, he was completely uninterested. I never went to a derms again until I developed rosacea. I was given expensive prescription topical. When it ran out, I discovered aloe vera gel worked just as well. Later, I learned diet worked even better.

I welcome you all to study natural alternatives and I genuinely hope we get to a point in the future in which these can be deemed effective. But as of now they're not.

Well, I appreciate that. But I don't need someone else to deem them effective for me. I eat the way humans are meant to eat and thus have clear skin and am not one of the sickly masses.

Natural remedies simply aren't working for adult inflammatory acne.

Wrong. And we have evidence from University & other industry research and stories that come from members of this board. Not someone's great aunt. So wrong there to.

The search for plausible natural alternatives is as promising as the search for the Holy Grail.

God. Comments like that make me despair that we'll ever get out of this insane mindset that sickness is due to a lack of drugs.

I have tried MANY of these treatments myself with minimal results. And it seems that I only hear stray stories of these remedies actually working. But I DO appreciate those who genuinely explore natural treatments. I hope in the future there is some way we can make these work and cure acne naturally. So, people like WishClean dedicating time to test these treatments is important.

Just wanted to clarify. Even though I think alternative methods are not yet effective for the mainstream, I hope we get to a point in which they are.

The future is now. We have hundreds of stories on the nutrition board. Come on over if you want to learn. We'll discuss your diet & habits and find your solution

Health is not an 'alternative' method and the mainstream is exactly who they are effective for.

But I want to be clear that we acne prone people are not any more unhealthy than the clear skinned people around us. They are unhealthy too, they just don't get the symptom of acne. Numerous genetic traits have been identified that cause our pores to clog and not theirs. You can read about it in the research on the Nutrition & Holistic board. Also on the old research board, if that hadn't been removed.

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Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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My question is still this: WHY DOES THE HOLISTIC FORUM EXIST if it's not supported even by Dan himself? That is just a contradiction and undermines the potential all those intelligent contributions could make in informing people that acne is multifaceted and can be "cured" or kept under control through a variety of methods.

I am confused as to why you are stating that I do not support the holistic forum. Where and when did I say I do not support that forum? Far from not supporting it, I hope to some day find a way to cure acne using only organic, natural methods and I'm glad debate continues in this area. As I stated above, I am open to this.

Diet & healthy lifestyle should not be lumped in with treatments like dabbing toothpaste on a pimple.

And regardless, they vary in effectiveness. Some are extremely effective.

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Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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Those who say they hope that healthier methods will eventually be accepted into the mainstream should know that support starts from forums like this one. If noone supports these methods, obviously they won't become more popular.

Sometimes I really don't know why we bother conveying this point of view if the majority is not receptive to it. The cultural conditioning that goes on in terms of the "more is more" mentality and that drugs are the only option just baffles me.

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Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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Wishclean said it best

Yes. SHE did. In every post she made.

But again, back to the point of this thread which you completely missed. The Nutrition & health based treatments are lumped under home remedies that could be things like dotting toothpaste on a pimple. And labeled ineffective. When those remedies vary in effectiveness with some being very effective.

The diet and acne connection is also listed under acne myths. And in the so-called "Diet and Acne- The Full Story" page, which is far from the full story, every study is scrutinized for flaws. Where's the scrutiny of the research into pharmeceuticals? For years they prescribed accutane without knowing how it worked. It said so in the Physician's Desk Reference.

Also, most of the description under home remedies consists of this statement:

"Without the ability to penetrate the skin and delivery the oxygen needed to kill acne bacteria, any topical treatment, whether it is found in a store, pharmacy, or kitchen, is limited."

Which is wrong. Bacteria is the least important factor in acne formation and not where you want to focus your efforts. Killing everything is really not the answer, in anything, but especially not your body when it comes to chronic conditions, especially harmless ones. The bacteria belongs there. It's part of how your skin functions and is protective. P. Acnes for example, has found to be protective against MRSA infections. As I don't want my arm or worse amputates someday, I'll be leaving my P.Acnes bacteria alone. And yet, I keep my skin clear of my formerly severe acne.

Those who say they hope that healthier methods will eventually be accepted into the mainstream should know that support starts from forums like this one. If noone supports these methods, obviously they won't become more popular.

Sometimes I really don't know why we bother conveying this point of view if the majority is not receptive to it. The cultural conditioning that goes on in terms of the "more is more" mentality and that drugs are the only option just baffles me.

But everyone here isn't saying they hope one day methods will be accepted. We hope one day healthy methods will be accepted They hope one day a method will be found. Which absolutely baffles me. What do they think we will find someday?

Researchers have learned what happens to you when you consume excess sugars. What happens when you don't consume nutrients and fill up on refined carbs and industrialized fats and have poor stress, sleep & physical activity habits. Chronic Silent Inflammation and screwed up hormones and Damaged arteries, the wrong lipid profile which then leads to chronic disease. Which is why this society is rampant with these self inflicted chronic diseases. The inflammation, the hormones & the lipid profile also directly affect the events that lead to acne.

This is what clears skin:

Healthy lifestyle with natural circadian cycle, stress management, physical activity and nutrient dense, anti-inflammatory, blood sugar stabilizing diet habits that don't include anything you have an intolerance for.

1 person likes this

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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Wishclean said it best:

to each their own. This is a polarized, pointless debate because noone is going to change each other's mind. So why do you keep arguing? Get a life.

Wow! And the only "arguing" I've seen on this thread was from her posts...such an angry person. Sorry you had to deal with that. If that kind of temperament comes from a holistic diet/lifestyle, no thanks--I'll keep the acne! :)

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Month One: 40 mg Zenatane, taken with breakfast

Month Two: 60 mg Zenatane, one taken w/lunch, one w/dinner

Month Three: 80 mg Zenatane, one taken w/lunch, one w/dinner

Skin care regimen:

a.m.: Paula's Choice acne wash Olay foaming face wash for sensitive skin, PC Hydralight toner, PC 2% BHA exfoliant, PC skin balancing antioxidant serum, PC Hydralight moisturizer and Resist SPF 30 moisturizer

p.m.: Kirkland cleansing wipes, Paula's Choice acne wash Olay foaming face wash for sensitive skin, PC Hydralight toner, PC 2% BHA, PC Skin Replenishing moisturizer

Supplements: calcium, fish oil, B12, and D3


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Wishclean said it best:

to each their own. This is a polarized, pointless debate because noone is going to change each other's mind. So why do you keep arguing? Get a life.

Wow! And the only "arguing" I've seen on this thread was from her posts...such an angry person. Sorry you had to deal with that. If that kind of temperament comes from a holistic diet/lifestyle, no thanks--I'll keep the acne! :)

What the hell are you talking about? What's with this false attack? Maybe your drugs are making you imagine things. Or lack of nutrients maybe making it difficult to think or comprehend what you read. And easily angered. Diet affects temperament and ability to cope, you know.

This is her thread. The request was for the moderators. Most of the people jumping in here had no business doing so.

And she didn't say a single angry thing. She's never been anything but nice and helpful. That's what comes from health.

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Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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Yeesh, guys... Continue snarking and making ad-hominem attacks, noobs! We'll gladly welcome you back when you've run out of new things to slather on your zits and nothing is working for you!

Anywho, I don't really care if people call me granola, weird, wacko, etc. They're just jelly because my skin looks amazeballs and theirs doesn't. When people comment on my great skin, I tell them about how horrible it was, and that I gave up dairy, sugar, and processed foods and traded those in for vegetable juice. Having good skin is WORK. Lots of people don't want to put the hours and effort into what it takes to do it so they give up and make excuses. It's okay. I did that for a while, too. There is a sort of "why me??" that is at the heart of all acne treatments and advertising. Easy to get into a victim mindset.

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Suffered from acne as a young adult that went into remission when put on hormonal birth control. Went off the HBC around age 22 and the acne returned with a vengeance (along with a host of other hormonal complaints). 100% clear with a modified diet that excludes dairy, sugars, grains, citrus and cured meats and emphasizes whole food-based nutrition from both plant and animal sources, most notably organ meats like liver and juiced whole vegetables. I have included a recipe for the most helpful juice I have come up with for skin complaints. I drink it every day, and it is invaluable for acne due to the large amounts of vitamin A (carotenoids) from both the carrots and beets. It also helps improve your coloring if you are very fair, giving you a pinkish, more radiant look (not orange. Don't worry!).

Magic Juice

In a juicer, combine:

5-6 carrots

1 medium beet

2-3 stalks of celery

1 small apple (Green is preferred. Omit if you are very sugar-sensitive)

1 small (1inch) piece of ginger (optional, but good for digestion)

This makes a variable amount of juice depending on the size of the vegetables you use.

Drink this throughout the morning until it's gone. Store in the fridge not longer than one day.

Having perfectly clear skin on my wedding day was worth all the headache and effort of figuring out how diet affects acne!

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Wow. Common threads among these three holistic posters: personal attacks and hostility. I'm headed back to the Accutane forum, where people are friendly and supportive! Peace! :)

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Month One: 40 mg Zenatane, taken with breakfast

Month Two: 60 mg Zenatane, one taken w/lunch, one w/dinner

Month Three: 80 mg Zenatane, one taken w/lunch, one w/dinner

Skin care regimen:

a.m.: Paula's Choice acne wash Olay foaming face wash for sensitive skin, PC Hydralight toner, PC 2% BHA exfoliant, PC skin balancing antioxidant serum, PC Hydralight moisturizer and Resist SPF 30 moisturizer

p.m.: Kirkland cleansing wipes, Paula's Choice acne wash Olay foaming face wash for sensitive skin, PC Hydralight toner, PC 2% BHA, PC Skin Replenishing moisturizer

Supplements: calcium, fish oil, B12, and D3


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The point of this thread was to question the dismissal of so-called home remedies. Everyone who got offended is because they have something at stake and don't like to have their viewpoints questioned. But the fact that this thread started a debate that got even Dan involved shows that there was validity to the original question I asked on this thread. Otherwise, why would you all keep posting here? hmmm.

Sadly, I haven't received a satisfactory justification to my question from Dan or anyone else involved with acne.org about the hierarchy in the list of treatments.

Also, I am still waiting to see those papers on the long term safety of chemicals/topicals and drugs. Since those will not magically appear because they don't exist to a satisfactory extent, I will keep questioning established treatments and will give advice to whoever is receptive to other, less harsh methods.


Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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common guys - let's not forget that we're all in the same boat and the real enemy is acne, not each other!


I am my own worst enemy


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I think this argument is being drawn out too long by it's supporters. It is Dan's site and whether he has an agenda or not, I think his conclusions are mostly reasonable and generally accepted.

Of course, everybody would prefer a natural, safe solution but it's pretty much fact that they are largely ineffective. For example, for those who took accutane, success rates are very high to the point where it is reasonable to say that that it's the most powerful treatment. Now in comparison, many other approaches have barely any success, the fact that a few people on the internet say it worked for them disregards the many for whom it didn't work.

Regarding diet and lifestyle, yes, some people improve a lot when their diet improves, but this is still a very very small minority. Countless others have improved their lifestyles and still notice no changes. It's frustrating to hear "just fix your diet and you will improve" when you do this and there's no change while you know people who have terrible diets and lifestyles etc who have never had a problem - hence the general comment that bad diet doesn't equate to acne.

In some circumstances there are underlying causes such as nutrition deficiencies which if fixed would be a complete cure. Yet it doesn't make sense for people to suggest these approaches over ones with known success, even if they are just "band aid" solutions. Sure, a user here may have major improvements with vitamin A supplements for example, but the approach is clearly largely ineffective if you have to suggest no dairy, no sugar, no processed food, lemon juice masks, baking soda, supplement vitamin B, vitamin C, vitamin D, niacin, sulphur, zinc, random vegetables, herbs, oils and even then, most people don't find a very successful treatment. Even those who do, often can't quantify or prove its effectiveness (e.g. "it looks like i've improved a bit" and/or "it only worked for a short while"). If someone found something natural that worked as well as the common treatments then it would quickly become known as an effective treatment and it would be common knowledge and people wouldn't have to suggest the pharmaceuticals.

For the record, and I'm sure you will pick this post apart anyway but I also support and use natural approach in conjunction with other treatments. From a reasoned standpoint, I don't think the holistic approach is being dismissed as it's true that it's largely ineffective.

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I support the holistic thread even as i embrace medicine and use it in my daily practice. I may have difference in opinion with what is said down there and probably do the opposite in my own life at times, but i know there can be a connection between the to which is being discussed here and i support what they have said. I see it more as i age and get passed the years of hormonally unstable (teen years; early adult). Just because three HUGE contributors comment does not mean that is the whole forum sector.

Your interpreting anger for frustration. The type of frustration you get when trying to explain something to an individual with bias presets. Its hopeless unless they some how stumble into it themselves.

On a side note: "P. Acnes for example, has found to be protective against MRSA infections"

I had no idea. Really interesting! Is that why i haven't contracted MRSA from all those patients....

But i doubt people will be given P. bacterias instead of Vancomycin. Although, it probably would be cheaper...

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Hey you guys. I thought about this and think it was worth discussion and a minor change. Thanks for bringing it up. I have changed Home Remedies from "largely ineffective" to "largely unproven" and also moved it above heat therapy.

post-1-0-20686300-1398795266.png

post-1-0-20686300-1398795266.png

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Hey you guys. I thought about this and think it was worth discussion and a minor change. Thanks for bringing it up. I have changed Home Remedies from "largely ineffective" to "largely unproven" and also moved it above heat therapy.

Great, that's a start...

I also think you should add a separate section for Diet/ Vitamins because those are not really home remedies. Home remedies are things like honey, yogurt, lemon, toothpaste as mentioned by alternativista. What about diet, herbs, and supplements?

These are not largely unproven...in fact, there are scientific studies about them, but of course not funded by major pharmaceutical companies. However, there is a significant amount of studies. Here's a starting point..I don't have time to pull up a whole list, but if you check pubmed and ncbi you'll find more studies. Also, I have tried some of those approaches and can verify they are effective. I took no medication and used no topicals to recover from severe cystic acne as well as other kinds of acne. If that's not proof, I don't know what is. Same goes for all the people posting on the holistic forum as well as some posting in the hormonal forum who control hormonal acne without pills.

- The relationship of diet and acne (with other links to other relevant studies): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2836431/

- Low glycemic diet improves acne vulgaris: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17616769

- Diet and acne: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20338665

- The role of medical nutrition for acne:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23438493

- acne vulgaris: a diseas of western civilization: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12472346/

- Glycemic Index, Glycemic Load: New evidence for a link with acne: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20234032

- The effect of a high-protein, low glycemic-load diet versus a conventional, high glycemic-load diet on biochemical parameters associated with acne vulgaris: a randomized, investigator-masked, controlled trial.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17448569

- Milk (there are other better studies than this as well): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19243483

- Role of insulin, hyperglyceamic food, and milk in acne: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19709092

- Vitamin B5 and acne (there are some better ones, I couldn't find them right now. There are also posted on doctor's websites): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7476595

- The gut and acne connection:

1. Probiotics and gut issues, and acne: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3038963/: "...there appears to be more than enough supportive evidence to suggest that gut microbes, and the integrity of the gastrointestinal tract itself, are contributing factors in the acne process.

2. Leaky gut and acne (book excerpt written by a doctor): http://www.ei-resource.org/articles/leaky-gut-syndrome-articles/leaky-gut-syndrome:-the-systemic-consequences-of-faulty-digestion/ >>> and many more studies and books on this. Even Dr. Oz talked about it.

- Inositol for hormonal acne & other pathologies:

  1. Unfer V, Carlmango G, Dante G, Facchinetti F (2012) Effects of myo-inositol in women with PCOS: a systematic review of randomized controlled trials. Gynecol Endocrinol 28(7):509-15.
  1. Gerli S, Papleo E, Ferrari A, Renzo GC (2007) Randomized, double blind placebo-controlled trial: effects of Myo-inositol on ovarian function and metabolic factors in women with PCOS. European Review for Medical and Pharmacological Sciences 11: 347-354.
  1. Zacchè MM, Caputo L, Filippis S, Zacchè G, Dindelli M, Ferrari A (2009) Efficacy of myo-inositol in the treatment of cutaneous disorders in young women with polycystic ovary syndrome. Gynecol Endocrinol 25(8):508-13.
  1. Lam S, McWilliams A, leRiche J, MacAulay C, Wattenberg L, Szabo E (2006) A Phase I Study of myo-Inositol for Lung Cancer Chemoprevention. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 15: 1526.

- Vitex and hormonal acne (there are more studies online): http://www.examiner.com/article/vitex-helps-balance-hormones-women-with-polycystic-ovarian-syndrome-or-pcos

-Niacinamide/ Niacin & acne: In a double-blind trial, 76 individuals with moderately severe acne were treated with either 4% niacinamide gel or 1% clindamycin gel (a standard antibiotic treatment). 13 Niacinamide proved to be just as effective as the antibiotic over an 8-week trial period. (inconclusive)

This is just a small sample...I don't have all night to find everything, but the point is to show that, in addition to anecdotal evidence, there are medical studies on diet and vitamins & acne.


Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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Great post WishClean. Everything on Acne.org is based on scientific research. That's just how it has to be. I will have a look at the above posted articles, but I have read most of them already. I can tell just by the titles when I click those links. I'm pretty obsessed with reading anything acne that comes out on PubMed.

And alternatavista, you say "Healthy lifestyle with natural circadian cycle, stress management, physical activity and nutrient dense, anti-inflammatory, blood sugar stabilizing diet habits that don't include anything you have an intolerance for," and I'm all for that but that is a tall order for the vast, vast majority of people. I tried to go on an anti-inflammatory diet with 25 Acne.org members back in the day and I was literally the only one who was still doing it after a month or so. And furthermore, while it is anecdotal, even with this diet, physical activity (I work out almost every day), meditation (I also do this most days), and regular, good sleep, I still broke out. So trying to put together all of these good things did not work for my skin. In fact, I got some pretty nasty, gross breakouts doing this once my weight leveled off.

Anyway, discussing stuff like this and trying all sorts of natural stuff is a good thing. I sincerely hope we can come up with a natural way to cure acne that works across the population, so let's keep talking about it. I will take your comments under close advisement as well. [btw, why is this text bolded and italicized!? I can't make it not be. grrr]


 

 


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Not sure if the mods could address this. It's something that kind of bothers me on acne.org, a forum that supposedly supports various approaches to acne. I know the main point for some (Dan) is to make money off of the regimen products (let's be real, $$$ is part of the reason why this site exists, even though it's helping a lot of people). But I still think that in the list of possible acne treatments here http://www.acne.org/treatments.html , natural remedies shouldn't be labeled as largely ineffective. What's the point of having a Diet & Holistic forum on acne.org if the hosting site doesn't even support diet and holistic approaches to acne?

Sorry for being nit picky, media analysis is my job and I inevitably analyze these things. I just think it's ironic and biased to dismiss natural treatments while pushing accutane and dan's products as the most effective treatments. I thought Dan was all about alternative research and finding new things that work, not pushing something that has so many potential side effects while also discounting the experiences of so many people who fight acne the natural way.

Can someone give me an answer or correct the label on that page? It bothers smart people like me to see such narrow mindedness on that page. And if there is scientific evidence to back up that list, fine, then there are so many other scientific papers that list all the detrimental side effects of accutane and bp. Therefore, these treatments are not 100% successful and they are controversial. I just think other approaches should be given some merit, otherwise what is the point of having separate sub forums if you're only going to push 2 mainstream treatments? At least give it a "Somewhat Effective" rating...it's offensive to the hundreds of people (thousands over the years) who are posting on the holistic forum.

Anyway, my rant is over.

I SO AGREE WITH YOU. I use the regimen along with natural remedies. What i have figured is that the regimen is placebo working, it does nothing to me because i was suspicious from the beggining. I totally feel the commerce behind this. Moreover the assistant's posts on all the regimen users are promoting the purchase of the basic regimen AND the additional products. This is what i shout on my "notes on the regimen" thread, but all i get is irony and judgement from particular users. Thank god there is at least one more person who has the same feeling, as i do.

Btw, natural treatments are HIGHLY effective if you are persistent, indeed. You have all my love wishclean!!!

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It turns out I have read almost all of those links you gave WishClean. I read the two that I hadn't previously, the Dermato Endocrinology from 2009 and the EiR one. My thoughts:

Dermato Endocrinology: They came to the same conclusions I have...that more research is still required. The last sentence of their article states, "To date, the research does not prove that diet causes acne but rather influences it to some degree which is still difficult to quantify." Still, I had fun reading it and learned a few new things.

EiR one: They list "Symptoms of Food and Environmental Sensitivity" and include literally everything I can think of. This is a good example of something I would call "unproven." If symptoms of leaky gut and its ensuing sensitivity can include about 75 things (I counted) which encompass pretty much anything anyone can experience, that's a red flag for me. This is also written by one person, a PhD/Critical Care Nurse, and is published in The Environmental Illness Resource, which I do not believe is peer reviewed in any way. Still, I found it interesting to learn about the intestinal lining.


 

 


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