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Not sure if the mods could address this. It's something that kind of bothers me on acne.org, a forum that supposedly supports various approaches to acne. I know the main point for some (Dan) is to make money off of the regimen products (let's be real, $$$ is part of the reason why this site exists, even though it's helping a lot of people). But I still think that in the list of possible acne treatments here http://www.acne.org/treatments.html , natural remedies shouldn't be labeled as largely ineffective. What's the point of having a Diet & Holistic forum on acne.org if the hosting site doesn't even support diet and holistic approaches to acne?

Sorry for being nit picky, media analysis is my job and I inevitably analyze these things. I just think it's ironic and biased to dismiss natural treatments while pushing accutane and dan's products as the most effective treatments. I thought Dan was all about alternative research and finding new things that work, not pushing something that has so many potential side effects while also discounting the experiences of so many people who fight acne the natural way.

Can someone give me an answer or correct the label on that page? It bothers smart people like me to see such narrow mindedness on that page. And if there is scientific evidence to back up that list, fine, then there are so many other scientific papers that list all the detrimental side effects of accutane and bp. Therefore, these treatments are not 100% successful and they are controversial. I just think other approaches should be given some merit, otherwise what is the point of having separate sub forums if you're only going to push 2 mainstream treatments? At least give it a "Somewhat Effective" rating...it's offensive to the hundreds of people (thousands over the years) who are posting on the holistic forum.

Anyway, my rant is over.

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Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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Here's how I see it (just my opinion and I could be wrong) but...

Acne.org is a community forum for people with acne. Supporting people with acne in different ways including it being a 'platform' for people with acne to 'connect' and discuss all things acne and different treatments, and through that, being a place to find out about many different possible treatments (that may or may not work for each individual for any number of reasons).

Don't forget that for someone to use the acne.org regimen and for it to be effective, they do not have to use the acne.org products sold through the site. There are a number of store-bought / over the counter products recommended - you don't have to buy 'through Dan' / the acne.org store / send any money in the site's direction.

There is still an info page on the site about diet and and acne in case you haven't seen it http://www.acne.org/diet-and-acne.html

I don't think the site is dismissing other approaches to acne treatment.

I think the treatment overview page you're referring to and the part that says 'largely ineffective' (the home remedies section) isn't 'unsupportive' of a natural or hollistic approach. It even says it's something to remain open to. I think in that instance it's comparing such remedies to things that have been shown to work more consistently and for a wider range of people (I'm guessing) - such as bp - and the mechanisms in which they work. So maybe it's 'ineffective' in comparison - but obviously for some people they've found such treatments to be effective for them. As with any approach, there's bound to be variation in each case.

I'd hope most people would be smart enough to do their own research into things and look into whatever approach (or combination of approaches) was of interest to them and inform themselves.

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Started The Acne.org Regimen 2nd July 2013

 


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I see your point, lilly. The main issue I have is with the hierarchy in the listing and the labeling of the various treatments. If it says "highly ineffective" that's a huge blow to all those people including myself who spend so much time posting *successful* alternative remedies to acne.

A person clueless about acne who first stumbles upon this site will look at the treatments and of course pick the ones labeled as most effective, sometimes without considering the alternatives.


Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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I'm still here to learn more about health and nutrition, and to help others. You are still here because you still have acne, and you will disappear once your acne is gone.

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Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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I see your point, lilly. The main issue I have is with the hierarchy in the listing and the labeling of the various treatments. If it says "highly ineffective" that's a huge blow to all those people including myself who spend so much time posting *successful* alternative remedies to acne.

A person clueless about acne who first stumbles upon this site will look at the treatments and of course pick the ones labeled as most effective, sometimes without considering the alternatives.

And this is a bad thing?!

IMO even though accutane hasn't worked so great for me at least there is actual scientific evidence showing the benefits of traditional prescription medications / treatments. Plus lots of feedback from people who post reviews.

It seems to me the problem with 'alternative' and 'natural' options is the lack of evidence that they actually work. Plus the limited feedback available.

Although I do agree this site does push "The Regimen" very hard as 'best' treatment. This is a free forum/service which is great. But as such users keep their eyes open to the fact that the price they are paying is the heavy marketing of the site owners products.

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Took Roaccutane for moderate but persistent adult back & body acne.

04/2013. Completed course after 32 weeks, cumulative dosage of approx 100mg per kg.

02/2014. Completed second lower dose course.

04/2014. Acne is already returning.....


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Diet and healthy lifestyle has been the ONLY effective treatment for me. and I spent over a decade going to various dermatologists and taking their drugs and using harsh topicals. And two courses of accutane.

I see your point, lilly. The main issue I have is with the hierarchy in the listing and the labeling of the various treatments. If it says "highly ineffective" that's a huge blow to all those people including myself who spend so much time posting *successful* alternative remedies to acne.

A person clueless about acne who first stumbles upon this site will look at the treatments and of course pick the ones labeled as most effective, sometimes without considering the alternatives.

And this is a bad thing?!

IMO even though accutane hasn't worked so great for me at least there is actual scientific evidence showing the benefits of traditional prescription medications / treatments. Plus lots of feedback from people who post reviews.

It seems to me the problem with 'alternative' and 'natural' options is the lack of evidence that they actually work. Plus the limited feedback available.

Although I do agree this site does push "The Regimen" very hard as 'best' treatment. This is a free forum/service which is great. But as such users keep their eyes open to the fact that the price they are paying is the heavy marketing of the site owners products.

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Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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I see your point, lilly. The main issue I have is with the hierarchy in the listing and the labeling of the various treatments. If it says "highly ineffective" that's a huge blow to all those people including myself who spend so much time posting *successful* alternative remedies to acne.

A person clueless about acne who first stumbles upon this site will look at the treatments and of course pick the ones labeled as most effective, sometimes without considering the alternatives.

And this is a bad thing?!

IMO even though accutane hasn't worked so great for me at least there is actual scientific evidence showing the benefits of traditional prescription medications / treatments. Plus lots of feedback from people who post reviews.

It seems to me the problem with 'alternative' and 'natural' options is the lack of evidence that they actually work. Plus the limited feedback available.

Although I do agree this site does push "The Regimen" very hard as 'best' treatment. This is a free forum/service which is great. But as such users keep their eyes open to the fact that the price they are paying is the heavy marketing of the site owners products.

I definitely agree that home remedies have a lack of evidence if they really work. I think it is because there are too many factors that go into testing this and it would be hard to come up with concrete evidence. And if they do work with someone, it is more often than not that they won't work on the next person.

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Morning Routine:
- CLEANSER: Cetaphil Gentle Skin Cleanser/Acne.org Cleanser
- BENZOYL PEROXIDE : 1 pump of The Acne.org 2.5%
- MOISTURIZER: CeraVe Moisturizing Lotion + 5-6 drops of Acne.org Jojoba Oil

Evening Routine:
- CLEANSER: Cetaphil Gentle Skin Cleanser/Acne.org Cleanser
- BENZOYL PEROXIDE : 1 pump of The Acne.org 2.5%
- MOISTURIZER: Cetaphil Moilturizing Lotion + Acne.org AHA + 5-6 drops of Acne.org Jojoba Oil

Medication:

  • Ortho Tri Cyclen Lo
  • Meftormin 500mg

Supplements:
  • Vitamin D - 2000 I.U/day
  • Zinc - 50mg/day


And this is all done as gently as possible. smile.png

This is my Regimen journey. ---

Ordering Acne.org Products from the Philippines. ---

This is my two year update on The Regimen and the products I have used ---


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Who will fund those studies exactly? Noone will profit from studying the effects of nutrition and supplements, which is why pharmaceutical companies do no sponsor those studies. It's a very money oriented business.

I am well aware of Western medicine and I'm not saying everything about it is BS. I go to an integrative doctor, I know a lot about western and other forms of medicine, often more than the doctors. And I have a doctorate too, so I wouldn't just take everything at face value. I use myself as an example first, and then also consider anecdotal evidence and literature/research. In fact, I could pull up studies that show the free radical damage BP does in the long run. It's not hard to do that but that wasn't my point in starting this thread. I just wanted to know that the site I use so often at least mildly supports a forum that is part of it.

And you are forgetting that drugs used to be the alternative treatment because natural remedies were there long before medication and chemical topicals. Even accutane is based on the effects of vitamin A on the body but, typical of western medicine, it is an extreme treatment and as these forums show, not even effective some people who are on their 2nd, 3rd or 4th course.

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Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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Wish Clean, i see your point of view and i know that it is frustrating to see certain remedies fall under blanket statements (such as effective or ineffective). Don't take it to heart though. As you stated, Dan is a business man and whether or not we like it, he can run his site any way he sees fit. If anything, people need to take everything they read here with a grain of salt as there is no one size fits all model, even with holistic routes. In the end, everyone should try to be as healthy as possible on the inside whether or not it helps acne.

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It's a rocky road but like everything else in life, there is always a beginning and an end. Here's to finding my end.

God is good to me..........more than I deserve.

James 1:2-4

Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.


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I wouldn't call it a bias--if natural/holistic cures haven't worked for most people, they will say so. For me, I completely changed my lifestyle to try to manage acne. I already exercised five days a week and got at least eight hours of sleep at night, but I started yoga and eating an almost 100% clean/whole foods/vegan diet. No dairy, little to no sugar, no processed or refined foods for months--and it didn't do a thing for my acne.

The only things that have worked for me were BP and now Accutane. So I'm not biased against a clean lifestyle--in fact, I still follow it--but it didn't work for me, and it looks like it didn't work for many others either. It's not a bias, it's just a fact.


Month One: 40 mg Zenatane, taken with breakfast

Month Two: 60 mg Zenatane, one taken w/lunch, one w/dinner

Month Three: 80 mg Zenatane, one taken w/lunch, one w/dinner

Skin care regimen:

a.m.: Paula's Choice acne wash Olay foaming face wash for sensitive skin, PC Hydralight toner, PC 2% BHA exfoliant, PC skin balancing antioxidant serum, PC Hydralight moisturizer and Resist SPF 30 moisturizer

p.m.: Kirkland cleansing wipes, Paula's Choice acne wash Olay foaming face wash for sensitive skin, PC Hydralight toner, PC 2% BHA, PC Skin Replenishing moisturizer

Supplements: calcium, fish oil, B12, and D3


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I see your point, lilly. The main issue I have is with the hierarchy in the listing and the labeling of the various treatments. If it says "highly ineffective" that's a huge blow to all those people including myself who spend so much time posting *successful* alternative remedies to acne.

If they were successful you wouldn't still be here.

I am astounded that your negativity on these forums has gone unchecked. Seriously, you need to change your attitude and stop attacking other members. She is here as a contributor much the same as I. We each have our own ways regardless of our success or not. We are here to help and provide perspective.

Stop displacing your feelings onto others, please.

The link is no longer up. However, I think the business model here is sly and inappropriate. It is his website and business, but advertising without hard facts that alternative methods are largely ineffective is just a lie to make people believe his method is best therefore you should buy into it. It may work. If it does, great, just don't discredit other methods as well, especially if you are going to allow discussion of it with different form headings.

I personally find education to be a big issue among acne suffers. This community serves to educate even the basics principals to anyone who cares to read. Therefore, it is in my mind inappropriate to capitalize on peoples ignorance when they are often times so desperate for help willing to believe what they see without question.

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Thought I should just clarify that you should be able to view the page by clicking 'other treatments' at the top (I still can, but when I pasted the link here it wouldn't work)

I do see your point WishClean - so maybe it would be good if the wording could be changed

I think the site still supports a hollistic or dietary approach or is open to it - if it didn't support it, wasn't open to it or didn't want people to discuss any such approach, there wouldn't be a diet and hollistic health forum in the first place

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Started The Acne.org Regimen 2nd July 2013

 


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I remember reading those pages, too, on acne.org. It was surprising to read that diet was brushed off so easily, and Dan himself has stated that he gave up milk, saw himself getting clear, but attributed this to being malnourished in regards to calories.

It's a sad reality that money IS the motivating factor in most pharmaceuticals. There is no money in promoting natural, diet-related remedies. Right before I found out about giving up milk, I was prescribed accutane. I was told my acne was "all over my cheeks" and was moderate. You can see for yourself on my log that this was not the case. The doc was literally handing out prescriptions of accutane like it was no big deal. Luckily I did my research and decided to take a more holistic approach to acne.

Low and behold, after reading for years diet is not related to acne, I decided, wtf, I am going to try it. And voila, months of clear skin. Showing that the statement by Dan that diet has little to no effect on skin and that BP will take care of any issues with diet is kind of garbage. Sure, I was decently clear just with BP, but I still would get breakouts and pimples here and there, diet was the missing link!

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Check out my Regimen Log HERE.

Back on DKR full force after trying to get off of it with horrible results.


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As the no.1 acne website, it shouldn't be so biased in favoring certain treatments over others. As others above have pointed out, an ignorant person who is desperate and knows nothing about acne (as I was years ago) will go for the most favored treatment with no regard for the consequences. Had I known years ago that there were less harsh alternatives I would not have slathered my face with chemicals or bombarded my body with hormones, antibiotics, etc.

Don't get me wrong. I am thankful that Dan had the common sense to host this site and I know that, while it's free for us to use, it costs him and his team money to maintain it. For that I am thankful, and good for him for capitalizing on his idea although he should definitely research free radical damage and BP some more because the answers he gave about that are not convincing.

At least to keep up the appearance of a democratic, non capitalistic website, that "largely ineffective" label needs to be changed to something less extreme otherwise it's a huge insult to everyone who spends time posting on the holistic/diet forum.

Also, PLEASE someone show me some hard facts about the LONG TERM safety (10-20 years+) of topicals and accutane that have not been sponsored by a pharmaceutical company (such as University research papers, public funding etc). Where is the evidence? Show me. 

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Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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Everyone is biased in some way. That's why it's important to state your bias, which I do in multiple areas of the site. As a Critical Sociology major we were trained to do just this.

However, to state that I am biased because of money is inaccurate. I heavily favored The Regimen for 8 years before I even decided to make products because it flat out works better than anything else out there aside from Accutane. Speaking of Accutane, I talk a lot about Accutane, and even call it the most powerful tool we have even though anyone who ends up going on Accutane is unlikely to buy any Acne.org products.

Regarding diet and holistic home remedies in particular, I do think they are "largely ineffective." This means to me that the vast majority of them are ineffective. I chose the term "largely ineffective" because I didn't want to just say "ineffective" since there may be some isolated incidences where some holistic remedies work for some people. I remain open to something holistic and organic that can clear acne and will be the first to champion anything that empircally shows real world results and accessibility. However, I have yet to see that. There are case reports of home remedies or diets working at least somewhat for some people, but there are no diets or home remedies that completely clear the skin across the population that I am aware of. Case reports are simply not enough to say these things are "effective."

As I state on the http://www.acne.org/what-i-use.html page:

post-1-0-63890800-1398192426.png

post-1-0-63890800-1398192426.png

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If the big man took time to respond, it means there are valid points here. As I stated above, the fact that this is the no.1 acne website means he did something right, and I respect that and appreciate the effort to host a worldwide community.

I have a solid background in the sciences and the humanities, and I can combine both along with my own critical thinking to make up my mind about what works and what doesn't. People who cannot think in this capacity will of course buy into (literally) the 2 options presented here. And it' not surprising that a lot of the people who post on the holistic forum have actually tried all those medical treatments first, and now they want a healthier approach. What's so wrong about that? Just because there are no hard facts? Hard facts begin with anecdotal evidence, that's how science progresses. If there are no new methods to fight acne, then how will science progress? Are we going to keep relying on treatments from the 80s? And obviously, based on the complaints posted about various existing treatments, those don't necessarily work in the long run either.

Also, healthy bodies DO NOT HAVE ACNE. If there's acne, there's something wrong with the body. Granted, BP treats acne on a surface level...if that is the issue (bacteria etc), then it's solved. But a lot of people use topicals for other forms of acne that are not skin-deep, such as hormonal acne. If the body's response to a problem (acne) is muted, then it doesn't mean that problem (internal issues/hormones/ allergies/etc) doesn't exist.

My question is still this: WHY DOES THE HOLISTIC FORUM EXIST if it's not supported even by Dan himself? That is just a contradiction and undermines the potential all those intelligent contributions could make in informing people that acne is multifaceted and can be "cured" or kept under control through a variety of methods.

I'm still waiting for those hard facts I asked for btw...


Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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My question is still this: WHY DOES THE HOLISTIC FORUM EXIST if it's not supported even by Dan himself? That is just a contradiction and undermines the potential all those intelligent contributions could make in informing people that acne is multifaceted and can be "cured" or kept under control through a variety of methods.

I am confused as to why you are stating that I do not support the holistic forum. Where and when did I say I do not support that forum? Far from not supporting it, I hope to some day find a way to cure acne using only organic, natural methods and I'm glad debate continues in this area. As I stated above, I am open to this.

As far as why I responded, Brandy let me know about this thread and asked me to take a look.

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My question is still this: WHY DOES THE HOLISTIC FORUM EXIST if it's not supported even by Dan himself? That is just a contradiction and undermines the potential all those intelligent contributions could make in informing people that acne is multifaceted and can be "cured" or kept under control through a variety of methods.

I am confused as to why you are stating that I do not support the holistic forum. Where and when did I say I do not support that forum? Far from not supporting it, I hope to some day find a way to cure acne using only organic, natural methods and I'm glad debate continues in this area. As I stated above, I am open to this.

As far as why I responded, Brandy let me know about this thread and asked me to take a look.

It was my impression (and the others who agreed) that the "largely ineffective"label for natural/home remedies was dismissive to the purpose of the holistic forum. So I guess it's a good thing you took the time to respond and clarify. You should take a look at the compilation of success stories on the holistic forum and see that there is some merit to alternative approaches ...just because not many institutions and no corporations choose to fund such studies, doesn't mean that these approaches are largely ineffective. Ironically, the site where most of the anecdotal evidence for such alternative approaches exists is acne.org...that's why I thought it was ironic that the ideology of the site dismisses the so-called "home" remedies as largely ineffective.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond and state your side. I see your point even if I am not convinced. I would be happy to read those hard facts on the long term safety of bp and accutane, if there are any, so please send them my way when and if you find them.

And if you decide to create a more natural line of products, then I'll start spending some $$ in addition to the time I spend on this site. With your resources and the fact that you managed to turn your regimen into a brand, I'm sure if you wanted to you could develop a more natural line of products backed up with the proper research to make them marketable.

PS. I noticed that heat therapy is rated higher than home remedies. http://www.acne.org/treatments.html is this hierarchy determined? This is like putting all home remedies under a blanket statement, and heat therapy under another whereas in fact there are numerous different home therapies and different heat therapies.

On that note, I guess vitamins/ supplements and diet are either part of the "home remedies" umbrella or completely omitted from the hierarchy. Why is that?

In any case, I think that page needs some editing...it's usually the first thing a first user will click on if they are unfamiliar with the forums and basically they are given 2 options: the regimen or the more extreme option, accutane. So naturally they will pick the regimen first since the 2nd option is more extreme as you say. But there are in between options that are not given valid credit further down this hierarchy. And while I'm glad to see that antibiotics are not highly rated either, that "largely ineffective" thing bothers me still. Call me nit picky, but you have to acknowledge the influence your site and your brand has on impressionable and desperate acne sufferers.

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Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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I wouldn't call it a bias--if natural/holistic cures haven't worked for most people, they will say so. For me, I completely changed my lifestyle to try to manage acne. I already exercised five days a week and got at least eight hours of sleep at night, but I started yoga and eating an almost 100% clean/whole foods/vegan diet. No dairy, little to no sugar, no processed or refined foods for months--and it didn't do a thing for my acne.

The only things that have worked for me were BP and now Accutane. So I'm not biased against a clean lifestyle--in fact, I still follow it--but it didn't work for me, and it looks like it didn't work for many others either. It's not a bias, it's just a fact.

Except that diet & lifestyle does work for many. Very well. In fact, I began changing my diet after reading post after post from Atkins dieters saying the diet cleared their skin. After arguing with them for a while about how diet has no affect on acne, I began to do my own research & learned about the post prandial effects of high glycemic impacting diets & just 'got' that humans can't be eating this now typical diet. And it's why we are surrounded by sickly people. (Not an endorsement of Atkins or statement that it or low carb is the diet to follow for clear skin. What you need is a low to moderate glycemmic impacting, anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense diet that doesn't include anything you have an intolerance for. Basically, the opposite of the SAD diet.)

And the South Beach Diet did a survey of dieters and found that over 80% of the dieters had clearer skin as a result of the lower glycemic diet habits. (Again, not an endorsement of the diet, only mentioned because it's an example of a hell of a lot of people finding that diet changes improved their skin. Also, the diet was created by a very important cardiologist. A conventional doctor. But one that knows that diet is not only the best prevention & treatment for disease, it affects acne. one of several such doctors, although there are clearly not enough of them.)

And accutane does not work for many. If it did, why are there so many "about to start accutane for the 2nd (or third, or fourth, or fifth) time" and 'my acne came back with a a vengeance" threads. And many on the nutrition board that tried accutane, myself included.

Most of the people on the nutrition board went to dermatologists & took their drugs & used OTC topicals for years.

Who will fund those studies exactly? Noone will profit from studying the effects of nutrition and supplements, which is why pharmaceutical companies do no sponsor those studies. It's a very money oriented business.....

Except that there have been many studies into the various factors that lead to acne, the various nutrients that affect those factors, and even on diets that affect acne.

And you are forgetting that drugs used to be the alternative treatment because natural remedies were there long before medication and chemical topicals. Even accutane is based on the effects of vitamin A on the body but, typical of western medicine, it is an extreme treatment and as these forums show, not even effective some people who are on their 2nd, 3rd or 4th course.

Yep. 2 courses here, no improvement.

Regarding diet and holistic home remedies in particular, I do think they are "largely ineffective." This means to me that the vast majority of them are ineffective. I chose the term "largely ineffective" because I didn't want to just say "ineffective" since there may be some isolated incidences where some holistic remedies work for some people. I remain open to something holistic and organic that can clear acne and will be the first to champion anything that empircally shows real world results and accessibility. However, I have yet to see that. There are case reports of home remedies or diets working at least somewhat for some people, but there are no diets or home remedies that completely clear the skin across the population that I am aware of. Case reports are simply not enough to say these things are "effective."

But the topicals & accutane don't "completely clear the skin across the population" yet you call them effective.

And there is evidence and there has been a thread filled with links to studies in the forum for years. You've even found some. Yet because you haven't found one study citing one cause, you discount them all. The thing is, there isn't one cause. Acne is a multifactorial condition. The body is a system. Nothing happens in isolation.

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Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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I would also like to point out that Home Remedies, and holistic/nutrition/health shouldn't be so lumped together. And they have varying degrees of effectiveness from very effective, to, as you say, largely ineffective.

Home remedies could be DIY topicals such as dabbing toothpaste or calamine lotion on a pimple. Or dissolving an aspirin rather than buying a salicylic acid product which is fairly effective, btw. It's what I do the rare occasion I get an inflamed pimple. Reduces redness & shrinks it right down. Although, with my anti-inflammatory diet, what few pimples I get are much smaller, less inflamed and heal quickly. No point in keeping bottles of stuff around the expire before I even make a dent in the contents.

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Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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And let's not forget the wonders a correctly followed paleo diet and/or an antihistamine diet can do to the skin. It really depends on what the cause(s) of each person's acne is. Usually, topicals and accutane are a crutch, they don't fix profound internal problems. They just mute the body's way of signaling (=producing acne) that there is something wrong internally. The serious posters on the holistic forum try to look at the body as a whole and find the causes for the acne, not just treat the symptom itself. And usually they discover more serious health issues that needed to be addressed, as I did.


Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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For every "Accutane didn't work for me" comment there are multiple success stories that run up against that. And eating clean for me might have made a small difference--it just didn't clear my skin completely. So there was some success there for me personally, just not the complete clearing I am getting from other methods. I've visited many threads on many boards and have found them fascinating and thought-provoking. The singular message I gleaned from all of this is that there is not one single method that is a cure-all for everyone--and isn't it wonderful that we have so many options? :)


Month One: 40 mg Zenatane, taken with breakfast

Month Two: 60 mg Zenatane, one taken w/lunch, one w/dinner

Month Three: 80 mg Zenatane, one taken w/lunch, one w/dinner

Skin care regimen:

a.m.: Paula's Choice acne wash Olay foaming face wash for sensitive skin, PC Hydralight toner, PC 2% BHA exfoliant, PC skin balancing antioxidant serum, PC Hydralight moisturizer and Resist SPF 30 moisturizer

p.m.: Kirkland cleansing wipes, Paula's Choice acne wash Olay foaming face wash for sensitive skin, PC Hydralight toner, PC 2% BHA, PC Skin Replenishing moisturizer

Supplements: calcium, fish oil, B12, and D3


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For every "Accutane didn't work for me" comment there are multiple success stories that run up against that. And eating clean for me might have made a small difference--it just didn't clear my skin completely. So there was some success there for me personally, just not the complete clearing I am getting from other methods. I've visited many threads on many boards and have found them fascinating and thought-provoking. The singular message I gleaned from all of this is that there is not one single method that is a cure-all for everyone--and isn't it wonderful that we have so many options?

Yes. But the issue is that one option, the best option, has been labeled as 'largely ineffective.'

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Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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People can say natural remedies are ineffective, but I'm going out in the daylight with 100% clear skin, so that ends that argument. I say this as a former BP addict. It took me forever before I could psychologically give up the ubiquitous 10% cream.

My favorite cosmetics are sunlight, jojoba oil, epsom salt baths, plenty of sleep, and lots of vegetable juice, and...

let's be real people...

Stila Convertible Color in "poppy" because what woman honestly goes out with zero makeup on? It makes me look polished and doesn't contain freaky chemicals.

100% natural, baby! Call it a niche, or whatever you want to call it... We are curing our acne; Everyone else is just treating the symptoms.

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Suffered from acne as a young adult that went into remission when put on hormonal birth control. Went off the HBC around age 22 and the acne returned with a vengeance (along with a host of other hormonal complaints). 100% clear with a modified diet that excludes dairy, sugars, grains, citrus and cured meats and emphasizes whole food-based nutrition from both plant and animal sources, most notably organ meats like liver and juiced whole vegetables. I have included a recipe for the most helpful juice I have come up with for skin complaints. I drink it every day, and it is invaluable for acne due to the large amounts of vitamin A (carotenoids) from both the carrots and beets. It also helps improve your coloring if you are very fair, giving you a pinkish, more radiant look (not orange. Don't worry!).

Magic Juice

In a juicer, combine:

5-6 carrots

1 medium beet

2-3 stalks of celery

1 small apple (Green is preferred. Omit if you are very sugar-sensitive)

1 small (1inch) piece of ginger (optional, but good for digestion)

This makes a variable amount of juice depending on the size of the vegetables you use.

Drink this throughout the morning until it's gone. Store in the fridge not longer than one day.

Having perfectly clear skin on my wedding day was worth all the headache and effort of figuring out how diet affects acne!

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What is real science to you? Weren't you the one saying you didn't want to take accutane because you were afraid of side effects? Well, then why not try one of these diets and skip the accutane? You are just angry because you couldn't figure out a way to make your acne go away naturally, and now you are bashing everyone who has.


Current regimen: garlic supplements [as needed], Enzymedica gluten blocker [as needed], nicadan [not sure if it works yet]. I try to simplify as much as I can. Don't take more supplements than you need....try one at a time and be patient.

The supplements that really helped me when my acne was at its worst: inositol, DIM [not as frequently now!] digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips/ low acid [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3, superoxide dismutase (SOD) enzyme supplements. NOTE: I do not recommend DIM for long term use, and I do not recommend hormonal creams without doctor supervision.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: acupuncture, regular exercise/ yoga, low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials...

 

Grocery list:

 

** Find the cause, find the cure **

** If you have a question for me, please ask it publicly so that others can benefit from the discussion**

 

 


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