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Great Article On Why The "leaky Gut" Isn't Real


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#1 bubbles55

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 08:29 PM

Please read

 

http://www.healingna...icles/dig12.php

 

 



#2 LuckyDory

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 08:50 PM

If acne is due to diet related issues for some people I think this is why. Leaky gut explains why people are thinking that certain foods are breaking them out and causing other people to develop weird eating disorders, It's more likely either candida, leaky gut, or a mix of both causing new food allergies and sensitivities. I used to dismiss the diet/acne connection but after hundreds of hours of research I'd say it is responsible for a lot of peoples skin problems here. Although, there are still other causes of acne as well, the many different causes seems to be fuel for a constant back an worth between users stating "facts" about what causes acne. 



#3 k3tchup

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 09:51 PM

Leaky gut is just a term filled with a definition to then place their blame on to make the person feel good. When you think of it its better to know what ails you so that you can move on to treatment (of some sort). Can't treat what you don't know. Basically people are lying to themselves, then deciding to eat right, exercise, make healthy choices and then come back to spreading a misconception that leaky gut is to blame. They should have done all in the first place. 

 

We are not all created the same. Some have intolerances to certain food products, additives, ingredients that cause inflammation and inflammatory response which leads to a change of events. Acne then being the result of a person's dietary habits. 


A nurse is not what you do, its what you are..I am a nurse: its not what i do, its what i am.

 


#4 paigems

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 04:50 PM

I haven't done a lot of research into leaky gut, so I don't know if I think it's real or not, but that article doesn't have a ton of credibility.



#5 alternativista

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 06:55 AM

That article is knocking a lot more than leaky gut. It attacks the entire antibody theory, and everything to do with it such as disease diagnosis, allergy & vaccines.

And the leaky gut argument is mostly about leaky gut claims I'd rarely ever heard. For example, No mention of how gluten lectins bind to the very substance our digestive tract is lined with.
Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#6 bubbles55

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 12:53 PM

That article is knocking a lot more than leaky gut. It attacks the entire antibody theory, and everything to do with it such as disease diagnosis, allergy & vaccines.

And the leaky gut argument is mostly about leaky gut claims I'd rarely ever heard. For example, No mention of how gluten lectins bind to the very substance our digestive tract is lined with.

 

 

If acne is due to diet related issues for some people I think this is why. Leaky gut explains why people are thinking that certain foods are breaking them out and causing other people to develop weird eating disorders, It's more likely either candida, leaky gut, or a mix of both causing new food allergies and sensitivities. I used to dismiss the diet/acne connection but after hundreds of hours of research I'd say it is responsible for a lot of peoples skin problems here. Although, there are still other causes of acne as well, the many different causes seems to be fuel for a constant back an worth between users stating "facts" about what causes acne. 

 

There are no different causes of acne, every form of acne occurs because of too much sebum, hyperkeratinization and over immune response to bacteria.

 

Acne can not exist without that contributing process. There is also some suggestion that the bacteria that lives in the skin of those with severe acne tends to be quite malignant (as proven with skin biopsies) and behaves almost like a cancer; aggressively multipling, spreads rapidly ect. as opposed to those with milder strains.



#7 alternativista

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 07:28 PM



That article is knocking a lot more than leaky gut. It attacks the entire antibody theory, and everything to do with it such as disease diagnosis, allergy & vaccines.
And the leaky gut argument is mostly about leaky gut claims I'd rarely ever heard. For example, No mention of how gluten lectins bind to the very substance our digestive tract is lined with.

 
 

If acne is due to diet related issues for some people I think this is why. Leaky gut explains why people are thinking that certain foods are breaking them out and causing other people to develop weird eating disorders, It's more likely either candida, leaky gut, or a mix of both causing new food allergies and sensitivities. I used to dismiss the diet/acne connection but after hundreds of hours of research I'd say it is responsible for a lot of peoples skin problems here. Although, there are still other causes of acne as well, the many different causes seems to be fuel for a constant back an worth between users stating "facts" about what causes acne. 

 
There are no different causes of acne, every form of acne occurs because of too much sebum, hyperkeratinization and over immune response to bacteria.
 
Acne can not exist without that contributing process. There is also some suggestion that the bacteria that lives in the skin of those with severe acne tends to be quite malignant (as proven with skin biopsies) and behaves almost like a cancer; aggressively multipling, spreads rapidly ect. as opposed to those with milder strains.
Mostly right there. Although its really chronic inflammation which as many causes & hyperkeratinization. Without those, 'too much sebum' doesn't cause acne, and many people have acne without having oily skin.

ANd diet affects those.

Edited by alternativista, 04 April 2014 - 07:50 AM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#8 bubbles55

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:02 PM

 


That article is knocking a lot more than leaky gut. It attacks the entire antibody theory, and everything to do with it such as disease diagnosis, allergy & vaccines.
And the leaky gut argument is mostly about leaky gut claims I'd rarely ever heard. For example, No mention of how gluten lectins bind to the very substance our digestive tract is lined with.

 
 

 

If acne is due to diet related issues for some people I think this is why. Leaky gut explains why people are thinking that certain foods are breaking them out and causing other people to develop weird eating disorders, It's more likely either candida, leaky gut, or a mix of both causing new food allergies and sensitivities. I used to dismiss the diet/acne connection but after hundreds of hours of research I'd say it is responsible for a lot of peoples skin problems here. Although, there are still other causes of acne as well, the many different causes seems to be fuel for a constant back an worth between users stating "facts" about what causes acne. 

ockquote>  
There are no different causes of acne, every form of acne occurs because of too much sebum, hyperkeratinization and over immune response to bacteria.
 
Acne can not exist without that contributing process. There is also some suggestion that the bacteria that lives in the skin of those with severe acne tends to be quite malignant (as proven with skin biopsies) and behaves almost like a cancer; aggressively multipling, spreads rapidly ect. as opposed to those with milder strains.ockquote> Mostly right there. Although its really chronic inflammation which as many causes & hyperkeratinization. Without those, 'too much sebum' doesn't cause acne, and many people have acne without having oily skin.

Nd diet affects those.

 

 

 

 

 

Hyperkeratinisation is mostly genetic. In both acne and K.P.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9557256


Edited by bubbles55, 25 March 2014 - 09:07 PM.


#9 alternativista

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 03:40 PM

Yes, it is a genetic tendency. But still influenced by diet.
Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#10 WishClean

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 10:00 PM

leaky gut and IBS have overlapping symptoms....are you gonna tell us that IBS isn't real either? Leaky gut is real. How do I know? Every time I eat something that irritates a leaky gut, my bowels attack me. And also, I reduced my inflammation by following a low histamine, leaky gut-friendly diet and I feel a lot better and managed to gain some weight as well. We shouldn't dismiss conditions just because they are under-studied and marginalized in the medical field. 

I actually think most people on this forum suffer from a form of leaky gut, candida, and/or IBS, not food allergies or intolerances. Leaky gut creates those intolerances, not the foods themselves. Instead of starving ourselves and avoiding everything, we should try to heal the gut instead so we can tolerate more foods.


Edited by WishClean, 03 April 2014 - 10:03 PM.

Supplements: inositol, DIM, digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: Low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials... (although I have been slacking lately)

** Find the cause, find the cure **

 


#11 bubbles55

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 10:20 PM

leaky gut and IBS have overlapping symptoms....are you gonna tell us that IBS isn't real either? Leaky gut is real. How do I know? Every time I eat something that irritates a leaky gut, my bowels attack me. And also, I reduced my inflammation by following a low histamine, leaky gut-friendly diet and I feel a lot better and managed to gain some weight as well. We shouldn't dismiss conditions just because they are under-studied and marginalized in the medical field. 

I actually think most people on this forum suffer from a form of leaky gut, candida, and/or IBS, not food allergies or intolerances. Leaky gut creates those intolerances, not the foods themselves. Instead of starving ourselves and avoiding everything, we should try to heal the gut instead so we can tolerate more foods.

 

I'm sorry but leaky gut is not real. I could link about 100 articles exposing the theory to be bogus. I think what you have is just standard IBS or possibly even crohn's (it presents differently in each person).

 

Here's a good article that you might like

 

http://gut.bmj.com/c...53/12/1724.full


Edited by bubbles55, 03 April 2014 - 10:32 PM.


#12 alternativista

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 07:53 AM

If we call it impaired barrier function like in that paper you just linked too, then is it real?
Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#13 bubbles55

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 08:39 AM

If we call it impaired barrier function like in that paper you just linked too, then is it real?

 

Because leaky gut is probably really Chron's disease. It's even associated with acneiform eruptions:

 

http://www.dermnetnz...rohns-skin.html



#14 alternativista

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 08:31 PM

If we call it impaired barrier function like in that paper you just linked too, then is it real?

 
Because leaky gut is probably really Chron's disease. It's even associated with acneiform eruptions:
 
http://www.dermnetnz...rohns-skin.html

The link you provided above is to a paper proposing a link between leaky gut and chron's. and says an impaired barrier may precede the disease.

And the first link you posted in ths thread is to a site filled not only with advice about how to cure conditions coinventional medicine claims not to exist, but also a lot of nonsense.
Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#15 WishClean

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:01 AM

Last century depresssion and a bunch of other clinical diseases weren't considered real either. Also, if you asked anyone about HIV before the 1980s, they would have no clue what it is. So, let's not be close minded and exclude conditions that people suffer from. If it's the labeling that bothers you, then that's another story. 


Edited by WishClean, 05 April 2014 - 09:17 AM.

Supplements: inositol, DIM, digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: Low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials... (although I have been slacking lately)

** Find the cause, find the cure **

 


#16 Gladiatoro

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:08 PM

Wish Clean you should goggle .... Dr. Stefan Lanka exposes the Viral fraud , a brilliant virologist and molecular biologist from Germany , fact is HIV has never been isolated only viral like particles or Polio , Hep C , etc... quite eye opening work .  HIV / AID$ is a political definition with special interest groups in the developed world and is chemically based ( street drugs / pharma drugs / vaccines ) and in the third world poverty is re-labeled as AID$ that's the sad truth. I watched a documentary called House of Numbers a while back then I did some research because it sparked my interest and needless to say I was shocked . It didn't surprise me though Allopathic medicine is very corrupt .

 

Cancer Inc. would be another one notice that they have never found a cure for cancer only chemo/radiation which is toxic when in reality there are many natural cures for cancer , ESSIAC tea would be a good example it came from  native American medicine man and was given to a nurse in Canada in the early 1900's and she cured thousands of stage 4 terminal cancer. You should check out Natural News .com it's a good place for info. 


Edited by Gladiatoro, 07 April 2014 - 11:39 AM.


#17 WishClean

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:28 PM

Wish Clean you should goggle .... Dr. Stefan Lanka exposes the Viral fraud , a brilliant virologist and molecular biologist from Germany , fact is HIV has never been isolated only viral like particles or Polio , Hep C , etc... quite eye opening work .  HIV / AID$ is a political definition with special interest groups in the developed world and is chemically based ( street drugs / pharma drugs ) and in the third world poverty is re-labeled as AID$ that's the sad truth. I watched a documentary called House of Numbers a while back then I did some research because it sparked my interest and needless to say I was shocked . It didn't surprise me though Allopathic medicine is very corrupt .

 

Cancer Inc. would be another one notice that they have never found a cure for cancer only chemo/radiation which is toxic when in reality there are many natural cures for cancer , ESSIAC tea would be a good example it came from  native American medicine man and was given to a nurse in Canada in the early 1900's and she cured thousands of stage 4 terminal cancer. You should check out Natural News .com it's a good place for info. 

I see your point, but I'm a bit ambivalent on this. I think part of it is just labeling...if it's not called AIDS it's something else (i.e. physiological symptoms of poverty, as you say). But yes, Western medicine is definitely corrupt and money-oriented, there's no denying that. The cure for cancer lies in natural resources, but of course noone wants us to believe that. Nature has all the cures, we just have to find them. 

But back to leaky gut, I think the reason why it hasn't been studied enough is because it's a modern ailment, partially caused by high quantities of GMO foods. SO naturally, food companies do not want us to believe that leaky gut is real. Tell that to my gut. 


Supplements: inositol, DIM, digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: Low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials... (although I have been slacking lately)

** Find the cause, find the cure **

 


#18 k3tchup

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:10 PM

Wish Clean you should goggle .... Dr. Stefan Lanka exposes the Viral fraud , a brilliant virologist and molecular biologist from Germany , fact is HIV has never been isolated only viral like particles or Polio , Hep C , etc... quite eye opening work .  HIV / AID$ is a political definition with special interest groups in the developed world and is chemically based ( street drugs / pharma drugs ) and in the third world poverty is re-labeled as AID$ that's the sad truth. I watched a documentary called House of Numbers a while back then I did some research because it sparked my interest and needless to say I was shocked . It didn't surprise me though Allopathic medicine is very corrupt .

 

Cancer Inc. would be another one notice that they have never found a cure for cancer only chemo/radiation which is toxic when in reality there are many natural cures for cancer , ESSIAC tea would be a good example it came from  native American medicine man and was given to a nurse in Canada in the early 1900's and she cured thousands of stage 4 terminal cancer. You should check out Natural News .com it's a good place for info. 

 

Im confused on this. Is he stating its fake and made up virus used to fetch billions in profit? Because when you step in the room of a patient who is severely malnourished, has Kaposi's sarcoma lesions throughout,has trouble breathing from PCP pneumonia [a type often easily defeated by a normal immune system] it hits you. This is real. This is end-stage AIDS. 

 

Its very real when you look at the medications one takes: NRTI's, NNRTI's, PI's etc. These drugs are hell on the body, and not cheap. But i doubt its all created and yet to be cured for personal gain. I could see this sort of corruption in Africa because that is just a different beast of multiple problems and corruption. But here.

 

Cancer, well when you sit down and read the #$%^ list of the many types of cancer a person can develop then you might have some respect for those that are trying to cure or treat just one form of malignant breast cancer.  Chemo/radiation are not going away because they work. Ask a survivor. Homeopathic medicine would do better as an adjuvant than a single treatment. I do not doubt its potential, but its severely undocumented and regulated. Reminds me of the movie Contagion. 


To add: the sad part of most cancers is that by the time the person finds out, by the time the person starts to suspect vague symptoms its already stage III maybe IV. That is why there is an emphasis on prevention more so now than treatment although they both are huge. Do i justify the cost of these treatments? Hell no. 

 

I am an anonymous bone marrow donor. I saved the life of a 18yr old male last year. I was his last hope after pharmaceuticals failed. Two things: do you risk the life of a loved on unknown, unproven homeopathic medicine and pray for a cure? Or do you bite the bullet and pay 1 million in expenses to save your child one something with better proven, success rate (thank god for insurance)? How much is life worth?

 

Yes, for those who are wondering, currently the going rate for a bone marrow transplant is 1 million dollars.  


A nurse is not what you do, its what you are..I am a nurse: its not what i do, its what i am.

 


#19 alternativista

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 07:04 AM

I would sooner believe in such corruption in the 'western' world where medicine is big business than in Africa. Where big business medicine sells their expired & banned medicines.

And the fact hat so many people are developing so many cancers tells me that its today's lifestyle, bad diets & constant chemical & pollutant exposure is the culprit and the solution is a holistic approach. Start now. Help your body defeat cancerous cells before they grow. Like it is supposed to.

Edited by alternativista, 07 April 2014 - 07:09 AM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#20 Gladiatoro

Gladiatoro

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:54 AM

k3tchup you should watch House of Numbers and all the add ons for it , even the co-discoverer  of the alleged virus Luc Montagnier said in the documentary  and Brent Leung ask him , if you take a poor starving African who has been infected and you build up his immune system ( with nutritious food  / clean water / proper sanitation ) do you think he can get rid of it and Luc Montagnier  says YES I would think so , Luc Montagnier knows more about AID$ than anyone  and he even admits it's a complete FRAUD what more proof do you need.  And if you really want to learn something study Dr. Stefan Lanka's work . Allopathic medicine disgusts me to be honest I haven't used a prescription drug in over 20 years and I don't intend to do so in the future , ask your doctor if this side effect is right for you lol...


Edited by Gladiatoro, 07 April 2014 - 10:39 PM.





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