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DCgirl, thank you soooo much for sharing your experience.

I was wondering if you tried the TCA + dermastamp on hypertrophic scars? I have some of those raised scars too

Thanks alot

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DCgirl, thank you soooo much for sharing your experience.

I was wondering if you tried the TCA + dermastamp on hypertrophic scars? I have some of those raised scars too

Thanks alot

I've tried it. I can say it works.

owndoc.com says:

Perform three times a week:
- Needle the hypertrophic scar superficially with our single needle (thin scars) or a 1.5 mm dermastamp (wide scars)
- After needling, perform pressure massage. Apply pressure with your fingers onto the scar spot by spot. Apply pressure to each spot quite strongly for about 20 seconds.
Repeat the pressure massage daily (but only three times a week in combination with needling).
On thick/tough hypertrophic scars, apply wart remover once a week (for sale OTC, usually contains salicylic acid and lactic acid). Apply without needling.
-Every three weeks, needle or stamp the scar densely and deeply to crush the scar collagen.
Why needling helps hypertrophic scars:

Scar tissue, whether raised, flat or indented is abundant in collagen but the scar collagen is thick and typically woven in a different pattern than in the normal skin.

Scar tissue isn't really different from normal skin, however the thickness and patterns of the fibers are different.
Crushing the scar tissue will crush the scar pattern of the fibers and the body will often remodel the scar into a better looking, softer scar.
Our body does not fix something that is not "broken". Scar tissue is just a cosmetic problem, it is not perceived as "broken" by our body. Needling or dermarolling is a trick to make the body remodel the scar. Making tiny pricks is not enough to cause a scar but it is enough for the body to see needled/rolled skin as "broken" and trigger healing processes. Unfortunately, our body usually does not bother replacing the scar tissue completely with normal skin - especially when the scar is deep - but it often replaces it with a mixture of scar and normal tissue, producing a better looking scar.
Needling/dermarolling triggers healing processes and the body tends to heal the area in a way, at least partially, as it normally should be. Indented scars fill in and raised scars flatten. It does not work in 100% of cases but in many cases it works.
Whatever you use, always make a test patch first to see how it heals.
When we get an injury that is serious, the body will quickly fix it with scar tissue to prevent an infection etc. The scar "glues" the skin together.
Needling or dermarolling does not produce scar tissue. When you needle or roll normal skin, it will heal as normal skin.
When you needle or roll a scar, it will often improve the scar but unfortunately, as I said, the body "refuses" to completely replace deep scars with normal tissue. Evolution apparently did not deem it necessary. So far, nothing exists that can completely remove a deep scar.
You should not needle or roll keloid scars. It could make them grow larger.
Edited by Roach25
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Guys, I tried to apply celandine for warts on my hypertrophic scars. I don't know what about US, but in Kazakhstan it's often used. Dammit, it was so strong. It seems I got 70% of TCA. Or something like that. When it stopped burn my scars I saw a little bleeding. Now they're orange-red. So I fucked up... =\
But they're almost flat. I apply bepanthen every hour. Just be careful if you're ever gonna do it on your hypertrophics.

Also I'm gonna do TCA 30% spot treatment tomorrow.

Edited by Roach25

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thanks for sharing,it's really an amazing improvement i can see from ur pics,and i wonder if TCA can treat on little pore scars,also u meant that u did derma-stamping right pointing at little pore scars and it worked a lot,right?u think the derma-stamping is the best way to treat on little pore scars?

look forward to your reply,thanks.

Yes, tca can help those, but I think single needling them real well, is the safest, easiest bet for scarred pores or ice picks.

thanks a lot,but i'm sorry i havent known much about single needling,is "single needling" a technical word as a kind of treatment?u did it at clinic or home for little pores scars?

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Hi, thanks for the advice. Sorry if this has already been asked before but where do you get your derma needles and stamps from? Also, do you think a needle length of 1mm is enough to be effective? Thank you.

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Hey DC girl! Do you know if progesterone OR vitamin E help dissolve scar tissue?!

I really have been trying to find something on Google but I'm not sure... maybe you know something.

I was thinking maybe the progeste helped in that sense... one of those ingredients. Also the massaging when you would put it on since it takes a while to sink in, how long did you massage for?

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What gave you that idea? Scar tissue is made of protein, so only a protease could theoretically dissolve it.

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Hey DC girl! Do you know if progesterone OR vitamin E help dissolve scar tissue?!

I really have been trying to find something on Google but I'm not sure... maybe you know something.

I was thinking maybe the progeste helped in that sense... one of those ingredients. Also the massaging when you would put it on since it takes a while to sink in, how long did you massage for?

Yes, vitamin E actually sheds skin and also softens the scar tissue, so it will remodal and help bloodflow renew the scar in combonation with massage.

You'll want to needle it though too.

What gave you that idea? Scar tissue is made of protein, so only a protease could theoretically dissolve it.

Well, dissolve isn't the right word. You don't want a hole in your face. But vitamin E will indeed help soften and renew the scared skin and accelrate heaing along with needling.

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Hey DC girl! Do you know if progesterone OR vitamin E help dissolve scar tissue?!

I really have been trying to find something on Google but I'm not sure... maybe you know something.

I was thinking maybe the progeste helped in that sense... one of those ingredients. Also the massaging when you would put it on since it takes a while to sink in, how long did you massage for?

Yes, vitamin E actually sheds skin and also softens the scar tissue, so it will remodal and help bloodflow renew the scar in combonation with massage.

You'll want to needle it though too.

>What gave you that idea? Scar tissue is made of protein, so only a protease could theoretically dissolve it.

Well, dissolve isn't the right word. You don't want a hole in your face. But vitamin E will indeed help soften and renew the scared skin and accelrate heaing along with needling.

Thank you for answering DC girl, I will be doing both.

What gave you that idea? Scar tissue is made of protein, so only a protease could theoretically dissolve it.

Yes sorry Factoid, I meant soften not dissolve. Does that mean using ACV & pineapple topically would help with scars? I know both have lots of enzymes maybe applying them topically would help.

http://healyourselfathome.com/HOW/NEWSTARTS/1_NUTRITION/ENZYMES/boost_body_proteolytic_enzymes.aspx

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What gave you that idea? Scar tissue is made of protein, so only a protease could theoretically dissolve it.

Well, dissolve isn't the right word. You don't want a hole in your face. But vitamin E will indeed help soften and renew the scared skin and accelrate heaing along with needling.

Protease doesn't work like an acid, there wouldn't be any holes, the lysed (broken down) scar-tissue proteins would conceivably be replaced with normal, healthy collagen fibers. In theory, at least.

And Vitamin A is a much better topical than Vitamin E for that sort of thing, one of last year's combination therapy studies mentioned how it also helps scarred skin grow back less scarred due to the way it affects collagen weaving.

Yes sorry Factoid, I meant soften not dissolve. Does that mean using ACV & pineapple topically would help with scars? I know both have lots of enzymes maybe applying them topically would help.

http://healyourselfathome.com/HOW/NEWSTARTS/1_NUTRITION/ENZYMES/boost_body_proteolytic_enzymes.aspx

Raised linear scars? Possibly. Atrophic acne scars? Nope, simply "softening" scar-tissue isn't going to fill in an atrophic scar, you need to induce trauma to get that going. TCA does both, it will dissolve scar-tissue AND initiate some serious collagenesis.

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What gave you that idea? Scar tissue is made of protein, so only a protease could theoretically dissolve it.

Well, dissolve isn't the right word. You don't want a hole in your face. But vitamin E will indeed help soften and renew the scared skin and accelrate heaing along with needling.

Protease doesn't work like an acid, there wouldn't be any holes, the lysed (broken down) scar-tissue proteins would conceivably be replaced with normal, healthy collagen fibers. In theory, at least.

And Vitamin A is a much better topical than Vitamin E for that sort of thing, one of last year's combination therapy studies mentioned how it also helps scarred skin grow back less scarred due to the way it affects collagen weaving.

>Yes sorry Factoid, I meant soften not dissolve. Does that mean using ACV & pineapple topically would help with scars? I know both have lots of enzymes maybe applying them topically would help.

http://healyourselfathome.com/HOW/NEWSTARTS/1_NUTRITION/ENZYMES/boost_body_proteolytic_enzymes.aspx

Raised linear scars? Possibly. Atrophic acne scars? Nope, simply "softening" scar-tissue isn't going to fill in an atrophic scar, you need to induce trauma to get that going. TCA does both, it will dissolve scar-tissue AND initiate some serious collagenesis.

Okay that's good to know! thanks!

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Hi DC-girl, I remember reading a post where you posted you scheduled a consultation with Dr. Lam in Dallas, TX. Just wondering if got TCA Cross treatment from him or what is your impression of him. I am thinking of going to see him for ice pick and boxcar scars. Thanks.

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Hi DC-girl, I remember reading a post where you posted you scheduled a consultation with Dr. Lam in Dallas, TX. Just wondering if got TCA Cross treatment from him or what is your impression of him. I am thinking of going to see him for ice pick and boxcar scars. Thanks.

I have not gotten cross from him but I do like and recommend him.

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I still can't believe how much your scars improved I wonder how's your skin doing right now.. I can't wait to dermastamp and do TCA 

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I just had dermarolling done..

The doc recommended only using Retin-A .4% every other day. 

Not sure if I should use it or not.

I always hear about how you should keep the skin moist for wound healing. Not sure if I should be using Vaseline or not or coconut oil or something to keep it moist with.

I'm not into using drugs at all, but I just want good skin.

I have pretty much "virgin" skin if you will. I've never really done anything to it before or used anything topically besides natural things.

I already eat healthy but I plan on eating more variety to get all the minerals and vitamins needed. I intend to juice once a day and continue intermittent fasting along with exercising. 

I don't eat any grains or any processed sugars, no dairy except for kefir (anything else makes me break out).

My diet basically consists of meat, veggies, fruit, nuts/seeds.

DC-girl, what do you think about flax oil?

 

 

 

 

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Hi DC-Girl,

First of all, congratulations on your great outcome and thanks for sharing your experience with us.

I can see that you haven't been online for a few months but hopefully you will come along and read this before long...

I would just like to ask, given that it looks like you had some rolling scars, what you attribute your improvement (or should I say, eradication!) of this particular type of scarring to? I'm guessing it's either single needling, dermastamping or a combination of the two.

I have some rolling scars similar to what yours looked like so if I was able to achieve the same results as you I would be thrilled.

Any tips that you or anyone else could give me on single needling would be great because you mention following some instructions on OwnDoc but I can't seem to find them. I think they may have been removed. Anyone know?

Thanks a lot!

Edited by Paul B

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Maybe I missed it somewhere in this long thread, but I'm still struggling to understand how do you treat diffused scarring/rolling scars. Meaning scarring that doesn't seem to have a defined point where it is tethered. It is hard to tell, but you seemed to have a few of them on your old picture. While most of mine are boxscars with a few icepick ones, I have numerous rolling scars around my mouth area and I think those bother me the most. I have been needling for a while but inconsistently. I'll admit, I don't keep up with it on a schedule so I won't see the results I want unless I keep it consistent. I did at one point do the single-needle method and I saw results for a single scar, but in my obsession with getting rid of my rolling scars that I hate the most, I invested in a needling pen tool. It has been great. I prick on multiple scars at a time and get an overall benefit for fine lines and wrinkles, but I also know I'm hitting my scarring straight on rather than an angle. The pen may have or may have not helped with my rolling scars, I won't know unless I treat them more consistently. However, I don't know if that IS the proper way of treating rolling scars. I have always been dreadfully afraid of TCA, but as a veteran member since 2005, I have seen the miracle of what it has done to people. My skin is NOT sensitive at all. I have pounded my face with a bunch of irritating chemicals and my scarring seems as stubborn as ever. For this, I feel I have to start at a minimum of 30% TCA. Most scars are 15+ years old and are actually not very deep, somewhat shallow, but they are numerous and stubborn. They get red sometimes making them look terrible in natural/overhead/fluorescent  lighting. To the point I'm used to people commenting on them. I'm considering getting back on the scar treatment boat and trying a combination of TCA/needling. I'm just wondering how exactly did you tackle your more diffused scarring or treat uneven textured skin (if any) and was there a method you used to apply the TCA? On what kind of scars?

Thanks and congratulations on your success. 

Edited by PetPeeve

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@PetPeeve I feel ya. Both in terms of having rolling scars around the mouth area and being confused about how to tackle rolling scars that don't appear to be tied down.

If you mention that you have rolling scars or someone posts up a picture, the suggested treatment people make is invariably subcision, with the explanation always being that it works by cutting through the fibrous bands that holds it down. However, when a scar doesn't appeared to be tethered - that's where I'm a bit lost.

With ice picks, boxcars or whatever - the scars are clearly defined and you know where to target. However, with rolling scars it seems more like guesswork in terms of trying to pinpoint the source of the problem. I'm uneasy on the idea of treating any type of scar with the single needling method (going at it horizontally/diagonally), yet alone one that I can't see. That is of course assuming that it is indeed the correct approach. Maybe consistently microneedling the area (vertically) and gradually building up collagen over time is the answer. I just don't know...

Untethered rolling scars remain a grey area to me and we would very much appreciate it if anyone could "fill us in" in every sense of the term! Edited by Paul B

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On 4/19/2016 at 9:25 AM, Paul B said:

Hi DC-Girl,

First of all, congratulations on your great outcome and thanks for sharing your experience with us.

I can see that you haven't been online for a few months but hopefully you will come along and read this before long...

I would just like to ask, given that it looks like you had some rolling scars, what you attribute your improvement (or should I say, eradication!) of this particular type of scarring to? I'm guessing it's either single needling, dermastamping or a combination of the two.

I have some rolling scars similar to what yours looked like so if I was able to achieve the same results as you I would be thrilled.

Any tips that you or anyone else could give me on single needling would be great because you mention following some instructions on OwnDoc but I can't seem to find them. I think they may have been removed. Anyone know?

Thanks a lot!


Hey Paul, 

You're correct, I did both single needling and dermaneedling. And also tca. 

I wouldn't worry too much about how you specifically go about it. The point is you're breaking up scar tissue and bringing blood flow to the scar. Tca and needling both obliterate scar tissue bit by bit. They are just different methods of the same thing. And it takes time and LOTS of repetition, and proper nutrition is essential.  Skin cells turn over every 30 days, I believe. So, keep at it!
On 4/20/2016 at 8:10 AM, PetPeeve said:

Maybe I missed it somewhere in this long thread, but I'm still struggling to understand how do you treat diffused scarring/rolling scars. Meaning scarring that doesn't seem to have a defined point where it is tethered. It is hard to tell, but you seemed to have a few of them on your old picture. While most of mine are boxscars with a few icepick ones, I have numerous rolling scars around my mouth area and I think those bother me the most. I have been needling for a while but inconsistently. I'll admit, I don't keep up with it on a schedule so I won't see the results I want unless I keep it consistent. I did at one point do the single-needle method and I saw results for a single scar, but in my obsession with getting rid of my rolling scars that I hate the most, I invested in a needling pen tool. It has been great. I prick on multiple scars at a time and get an overall benefit for fine lines and wrinkles, but I also know I'm hitting my scarring straight on rather than an angle. The pen may have or may have not helped with my rolling scars, I won't know unless I treat them more consistently. However, I don't know if that IS the proper way of treating rolling scars. I have always been dreadfully afraid of TCA, but as a veteran member since 2005, I have seen the miracle of what it has done to people. My skin is NOT sensitive at all. I have pounded my face with a bunch of irritating chemicals and my scarring seems as stubborn as ever. For this, I feel I have to start at a minimum of 30% TCA. Most scars are 15+ years old and are actually not very deep, somewhat shallow, but they are numerous and stubborn. They get red sometimes making them look terrible in natural/overhead/fluorescent  lighting. To the point I'm used to people commenting on them. I'm considering getting back on the scar treatment boat and trying a combination of TCA/needling. I'm just wondering how exactly did you tackle your more diffused scarring or treat uneven textured skin (if any) and was there a method you used to apply the TCA? On what kind of scars?

Thanks and congratulations on your success. 


Scars need blood flow to slowly remodel. That's it. Blood flow. So it doesn't really matter as much how you needle, but I would just do it both ways. Subsicion style as well as straight on. I would pretty much treat them all the same: needling and tca. 
And you  DO have to keep up with the needling. Set an alarm on your phone and do it every 2 weeks. That way you can't forget. 
Also, read Dr. Ray Peat's work and you'll get a better handle on nutrition. That's essential for good healing.  Edited by DC-girl

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Thanks very much for your reply, DC-Girl.

You mention that getting blood flow is key so presumably some massaging of the skin now and then wouldn't do any harm to increase circulation. Is the 30-minute massage something you stuck to religiously or did you do it to a far lesser extent?

On the subject of blood flow - do you recommend suctioning directly after treating ANY type of scarring just as a means of bringing blood to the area? For example, suctioning is commonly associated following subcision for rolling scars so wondered if you had your rolling scars in mind here or any type of scar. Any tips on how to suction in general would be appreciated as I can see this being something that I'm going to be confused about when it comes to trying it. e.g. which cup size to use in which situation, how many scars to do at the same time and how long to suction for etc.

I am looking to incorporate beef tallow and coconut into my diet if not my skincare regime. Is it right that they are suitable for both purposes? If you could lend any tips how much to use, how frequently or ideas on meals/drinks that I can consume coconut oil with that would be great.

One final thing, were your rolling scars the kind that disappear when stretched or remain visibly indented at all times?

Thanks once again.

Edited by Paul B

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Hi DC-Girl,

Thanks for sharing your experience with us.

Do you think your results might be due to a combination of your diet and genetics? My derm has a before and after picture of a person whose scarring was a lot worse than yours, and she has improved basically 100% over 7 months. He only used a microneedling method. He says that results are variable from person to person, and that her results were not to be expected from most people. I want to get results like you, and was wondering if you had any experiences with very quick wound healing in general.

I personally don't heal fast at all. A cat scratched my hand like 5 weeks ago, and the mark is still visible. I found this odd so I did some testing, and it turned out that I had a severe zinc deficiency. So I plan to be taking some zinc supplements and possibly niacinamide to boost healing. I have been eating healthy for the past 3 years, so I should be expecting good results once the deficiency is taken care of.

Would you mind sharing with us the kind of supplements you take, and whether you do cardio or any other kind of aerobic exercises? I would really appreciate that.

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