170 posts in this topic

Me too. I was thinking of opening up a new post with the study so people can better understand this.

Vitamin E has been shown to be completely ineffective for scars and can actually cause contact dermatitis and worse scarring. I hate that people keep repeating this old wives tale.

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I use the ONLY pure Vitamin E I know of.

If they used a vitamin E dissolved in soy or in any other inflammatory unsaturated fatty acid I could see it causing problems. I can't use MOST of the vitamin E out there for this very reason, it's often in soybean oil.

Anyone know what vitamin E they used in the study? I'd like them to prove they used a pure one, otherwise it's a pointless study. Vitamin E dissolved in anything inflammatory negates the point of it.

Also WHO PAID for this study? Keep in mind, there's not any money to be made in vitamin E because it's cheap and no one can patent it. Sadly, there are a lot of bogus studies out there funded by the people who are using bad science for either promotion of a product or to make a natural cure look useless. They often will fund studies at colleges or universities and then only publish the results if they get the "conclusion" they desire.

Edited by DC-girl

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All good questions, D.C. Girl. We should always be thinking critically about our scar treatments and not just accept research on face value. I tend to err on the side of caution so unless I see some independent research stating that Vitamin E DOES help I will abstain. But your point is well taken about the money to be made - and that's probably why more studies aren't out there examining the different variables.

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Wow, this is just amazing, I have a lot of deep scars and some redness and this is really inspiring and gives me hope that there is something that can be done with patience!

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Hi everyone,

Here's my before and afters:

Just wanted to post my success for moral support and encouragement for anyone else like me that thought they'd NEVER make progress.

I had acne my whole life and it became cystic when I reached my late 20's. I had the worst acne of ANYONE I'd ever seen, I even had to have some surgical excision of cysts that never left. It was that bad. I don't use any acne products. I only wash my face once a day, don't even wash it in the mornings. I use coconut oil as a cleanser sometimes and a makeup remover if I wear make up.

The pics are about 2 years apart. I attribute the improvement in scarring to derma-stamping, single needling, STOPPING retin-A, silicone mircro-droplet injections, TCA spot treatment on scars and eating a healthy diet with no soy, grains, or unsaturated oils. There are some red areas in this after pic because I recently did some TCA spot treating on a couple icepick scars but I don't break out anymore and this redness is temporary and easily covered with make up.

I highly recommend derma-stamping and TCA for scars, when used cautiously and only if you've educated yourself on proper use. I really love using a 30%tca to spot treat small spots at a time because I don't have to hide in my house for 2 weeks that way, it's a slower longer process but I find that at least that way it actually gets done. As for stamping, I now do it once a month (or every 4-6 weeks) and I also just starting massaging my face and scars which feels good and brings blood flow to the surface of your skin making it healthier. There's a post somewhere on the forums here called "30min massage for scars" you can read which is very helpful too. I don't even use any cleansers except honey in the shower and sometimes coconut oil. I got rid of all the store bought, chemical laden crap. That being said, I do think salicylic acid, lactic acid and tca are good as long as they're not done too much, and health wise, I feel they're pretty safe to use. They're made from milk and fruit.

I used to think it would never get better and I'm so glad I was patient, took pictures, kept learning, and kept persevering.

This gives me so much hope and I want to thankyou! I read this when I am feeling worst about my scarring. It helps me get back into a positive frame of mind where I can believe that I can fix my scarring too.

My scarring is still new. Most are only 1-2 months old. I have ordered some products online that are mean to help stimulate collagen production and help with scar healing-I am hoping this will make a difference. But it is good to know that there are other things that I can do which don't include insane laser!

I don't think I am ready to get into dermarolling/stamping or TCA just yet. I haven't done a whole lot of research and I think I should give topicals a try first as my scarring is so new it might respond to them quite well.

But just thankyou again, so much. Not many people stick around after they find something that works, you see so many people vanish. So thankyou for helping so many people, including myself, who are pretty stressed and lost when it comes to their scarring.

(Just a little side note: Yesterday I realised just how much my scarring effects me. I was at a function with pretty unflattering overhead lighting-which I knew was making my scarring standout! Anyway, I felt so uncomfortable there that I left early! I don't want the rest of my life to be like this! I am only young and I want to be able to be in rooms with bad lighting without worrying about my scarring. And you give me hope!)

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I apologize if you've answered this previously (I read through the whole thread, but I still may have overlooked it!) but...

What was your timing when using the TCA plus the stamping? Would you stamp first, then wait two weeks and do TCA spot, then wait two more weeks to stamp again, etc? Or what was that routine like?

I know doing too much in a short timeframe can be troublesome, so I was just curious how you spaced them out when using both methods.

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yes I'm really happy for you too! this gives me hope, i am actually working on mine too. when i have success i will post up what i have done as well.

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I use the ONLY pure Vitamin E I know of.

If they used a vitamin E dissolved in soy or in any other inflammatory unsaturated fatty acid I could see it causing problems. I can't use MOST of the vitamin E out there for this very reason, it's often in soybean oil.

Anyone know what vitamin E they used in the study? I'd like them to prove they used a pure one, otherwise it's a pointless study. Vitamin E dissolved in anything inflammatory negates the point of it.

Also WHO PAID for this study? Keep in mind, there's not any money to be made in vitamin E because it's cheap and no one can patent it. Sadly, there are a lot of bogus studies out there funded by the people who are using bad science for either promotion of a product or to make a natural cure look useless. They often will fund studies at colleges or universities and then only publish the results if they get the "conclusion" they desire.

i haven't read all pages, just an overview

iam interested in derma stamping as i did something similar awhile back with derma rolling, but im not sure i did it long enough. I also hated it.

TCA scares me because every damn time i use an acid like bha/aha i end up burning my skin either the first time or the following times- i do not want to do this again.. ugh.

Yet. im curious as the strength you used. How do you derma stamp a single scar? Some say ditch it and get a sewing needle and just start poking away? This a better method? My other check might benefit from the stamp. What did you do?

Any tid bits of info is great.

What is a good brand of pure natural vitamin e oil then? I use it as a moisturizer (although it is heavy) after shaving and for spots. I would use it over the derma stamped areas too..if its the good stuff.

so which sizing do you go with? you do it after showering, at night? then apply tca? got a product you use that you care to share?

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I apologize if you've answered this previously (I read through the whole thread, but I still may have overlooked it!) but...

What was your timing when using the TCA plus the stamping? Would you stamp first, then wait two weeks and do TCA spot, then wait two more weeks to stamp again, etc? Or what was that routine like?

I know doing too much in a short timeframe can be troublesome, so I was just curious how you spaced them out when using both methods.

I didn't have any type of strict schedule but I tried to do either stamping or tca at least once a month or sometimes every 2 weeks alternating the two. If you do a deep tca you often have to wait a couple months before you can do it again.

I use the ONLY pure Vitamin E I know of.

If they used a vitamin E dissolved in soy or in any other inflammatory unsaturated fatty acid I could see it causing problems. I can't use MOST of the vitamin E out there for this very reason, it's often in soybean oil.

Anyone know what vitamin E they used in the study? I'd like them to prove they used a pure one, otherwise it's a pointless study. Vitamin E dissolved in anything inflammatory negates the point of it.

Also WHO PAID for this study? Keep in mind, there's not any money to be made in vitamin E because it's cheap and no one can patent it. Sadly, there are a lot of bogus studies out there funded by the people who are using bad science for either promotion of a product or to make a natural cure look useless. They often will fund studies at colleges or universities and then only publish the results if they get the "conclusion" they desire.

i haven't read all pages, just an overview

iam interested in derma stamping as i did something similar awhile back with derma rolling, but im not sure i did it long enough. I also hated it.

TCA scares me because every damn time i use an acid like bha/aha i end up burning my skin either the first time or the following times- i do not want to do this again.. ugh.

Yet. im curious as the strength you used. How do you derma stamp a single scar? Some say ditch it and get a sewing needle and just start poking away? This a better method? My other check might benefit from the stamp. What did you do?

Any tid bits of info is great.

What is a good brand of pure natural vitamin e oil then? I use it as a moisturizer (although it is heavy) after shaving and for spots. I would use it over the derma stamped areas too..if its the good stuff.

so which sizing do you go with? you do it after showering, at night? then apply tca? got a product you use that you care to share?

Don't roll, stamp. It hurts less and it's more accurate and you're less likely to scratch yourself.

What do you mean you burned yourself with TCA? That's what a tca peel or spot treatment is; a controlled burn. Do you mean you caused further scarring? Were you using retin-A? Or doing it too much?

I use a 30% tca and always just spot treating, I've never done my whole face with that. I use makeup artists choice TCA brand.

I just stamp the scar directly over any scar when spot stamping scars. So if it's a small scar the stamp might be bigger than the scar, no big deal, unscarred skin benefits from stamping too.

DO NOT use a sewing needle. Dermastamps are cheap and the needles are small enough that you won't cause further scarring. You want to bring bloodflow to the scar tissue, not do reckless damage that could cause new scar tissue.

I use a 1.5 or 2mm dermastamp and I don't have a time of day I do it, but it's usually in the morning. It's best to do it when you're not feeling stressed.

The vitamen E I use is called Progest-E, it's pure Vitaman E with progesterone which is one of our bodies most powerful anti-inflammatory hormones.

Edited by DC-girl

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I apologize if you've answered this previously (I read through the whole thread, but I still may have overlooked it!) but...

What was your timing when using the TCA plus the stamping? Would you stamp first, then wait two weeks and do TCA spot, then wait two more weeks to stamp again, etc? Or what was that routine like?

I know doing too much in a short timeframe can be troublesome, so I was just curious how you spaced them out when using both methods.

I didn't have any type of strict schedule but I tried to do either stamping or tca at least once a month or sometimes every 2 weeks alternating the two. If you do a deep tca you often have to wait a couple months before you can do it again.

>

I use the ONLY pure Vitamin E I know of.

If they used a vitamin E dissolved in soy or in any other inflammatory unsaturated fatty acid I could see it causing problems. I can't use MOST of the vitamin E out there for this very reason, it's often in soybean oil.

Anyone know what vitamin E they used in the study? I'd like them to prove they used a pure one, otherwise it's a pointless study. Vitamin E dissolved in anything inflammatory negates the point of it.

Also WHO PAID for this study? Keep in mind, there's not any money to be made in vitamin E because it's cheap and no one can patent it. Sadly, there are a lot of bogus studies out there funded by the people who are using bad science for either promotion of a product or to make a natural cure look useless. They often will fund studies at colleges or universities and then only publish the results if they get the "conclusion" they desire.

i haven't read all pages, just an overview

iam interested in derma stamping as i did something similar awhile back with derma rolling, but im not sure i did it long enough. I also hated it.

TCA scares me because every damn time i use an acid like bha/aha i end up burning my skin either the first time or the following times- i do not want to do this again.. ugh.

Yet. im curious as the strength you used. How do you derma stamp a single scar? Some say ditch it and get a sewing needle and just start poking away? This a better method? My other check might benefit from the stamp. What did you do?

Any tid bits of info is great.

What is a good brand of pure natural vitamin e oil then? I use it as a moisturizer (although it is heavy) after shaving and for spots. I would use it over the derma stamped areas too..if its the good stuff.

so which sizing do you go with? you do it after showering, at night? then apply tca? got a product you use that you care to share?

Don't roll, stamp. It hurts less and it's more accurate and you're less likely to scratch yourself.

What do you mean you burned yourself with TCA? That's what a tca peel or spot treatment is; a controlled burn. Do you mean you caused further scarring? Were you using retin-A? Or doing it too much?

I use a 30% tca and always just spot treating, I've never done my whole face with that. I use makeup artists choice TCA brand.

I just stamp the scar directly over any scar when spot stamping scars. So if it's a small scar the stamp might be bigger than the scar, no big deal, unscarred skin benefits from stamping too.

DO NOT use a sewing needle. Dermastamps are cheap and the needles are small enough that you won't cause further scarring. You want to bring bloodflow to the scar tissue, not do reckless damage that could cause new scar tissue.

I use a 1.5 or 2mm dermastamp and I don't have a time of day I do it, but it's usually in the morning. It's best to do it when you're not feeling stressed.

The vitamen E I use is called Progest-E, it's pure Vitaman E with progesterone which is one of our bodies most powerful anti-inflammatory hormones.

I mean i have burned myself because of stupidity in the past from acid use; its hard practicing self conservation and moderation when you are such a proactive person in regards to fixing problems. This stuff worries me.

I ordered a derma roller and other supplies for after care from owndoc because it was cheap and it seems reliable. I would like to heal a long time scar on my face, but am not scare of over doing it with this thing so i will need to read and not be an idiot.

I will skip the TCA for now and use copper peptides along side my differin/retin a. I will only use the peptides on the scar im treating and the other stuff for treating old spots/pih. Thanks for your input on this.

That vitamin E makes me wonder the effects it would have for a guy because it has progesterone in it. Need to do some reading on this.

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Thank you so much for sharing your post. I'm going to look into derma-stamping. In response to the last post - chemical peel alone will probably not do much for physical scars. In my experience, chemical peels help with overall texture and pigment, but not much with resurfacing. Two years is also not a long time. Many of us have had scars for the majority of our live (myself included). I also prefer slow and steady that can be gradually monitored as opposed to something quick that's irreversible. My fear of lasers is the long term effects. I've read bad reviews of fraxel where down the road you lose elasticity in your skin and the overall quality and appearance of the skin is damaged. That would simply devastate me

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Question for DC Girl:

1. what do you use to sterilize the derma stamp? Example... if I use it today, then use it again a month from now, obviously I want to sterilize it for the next use since it has been punctured into my skin from the previous use... what can I use to effectively sterilize it?

2. What do you use to sterilize the derma-needle?

3. for the TCA spot-treatment, "when" do you wash the TCA off? Example... after applying 15% TCA, do you wash it off after 5 minutes?

4. Which TCA concentration was most effective for you in the reduction of the shallow scars? .... was it the 15% or the 30%?

5. In your opinion, do you think the vitamin e helped?... or is it possible I can let my skin heal naturally after the dermastamp without the use of topicals after the derma stamp? Convince me if I'm wrong, but I was thinking about trying this without using any topical creams afterwards and just let my skin heal itself.

6. Would you say the derma-stamp is more effective, or the derma-needle?

7. Which should I try first... derma-stamp or single-needling?

8. From what I can recall if I read correctly, dermastamp goes into your skin directly from top to bottom (no angles), but you said when you tried single-needling, that you inserted the needle at an angle. In your opinion, does it matter if you insert the needle from top to bottom straight, or if you insert the needle at an angle?

Thanks for your help.

As a bio student, I believe needling works because of mitosis. Mitosis is the rejuvenation and repairing of cells.

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Question for DC Girl:

1. what do you use to sterilize the derma stamp? Example... if I use it today, then use it again a month from now, obviously I want to sterilize it for the next use since it has been punctured into my skin from the previous use... what can I use to effectively sterilize it?

2. What do you use to sterilize the derma-needle?

3. for the TCA spot-treatment, "when" do you wash the TCA off? Example... after applying 15% TCA, do you wash it off after 5 minutes?

4. Which TCA concentration was most effective for you in the reduction of the shallow scars? .... was it the 15% or the 30%?

5. In your opinion, do you think the vitamin e helped?... or is it possible I can let my skin heal naturally after the dermastamp without the use of topicals after the derma stamp? Convince me if I'm wrong, but I was thinking about trying this without using any topical creams afterwards and just let my skin heal itself.

6. Would you say the derma-stamp is more effective, or the derma-needle?

7. Which should I try first... derma-stamp or single-needling?

8. From what I can recall if I read correctly, dermastamp goes into your skin directly from top to bottom (no angles), but you said when you tried single-needling, that you inserted the needle at an angle. In your opinion, does it matter if you insert the needle from top to bottom straight, or if you insert the needle at an angle?

Thanks for your help.

As a bio student, I believe needling works because of mitosis. Mitosis is the rejuvenation and repairing of cells.

1. I use the sterilizing powder they sell on owndoc's website.

2. the same

3. I don't wash it off

4. 30%

5. Yes, it helps. Of course, your skin will heal but the diffrence between good results and so-so results might be the use of Vitamin E. It will help you heal better, it's your choice if you use it or not. Any occclusive ointment is a good thing, something that traps CO2 under it, for example, tape is good too.

6. It's the same process, stamps just get more surface area done quicker, but a single needle is good if you have a really dense scar or want to push it in at an angle.

7. Both, depending on the type of scar you're treating.

8. It depends on the scar, if you push in and you can feel it's really thick and tethered, you might want to use a single to get in there good, but overall it won't make that much difference wethere it's a stamp or a needle. It's the same concept and they're both doing the same things.

Edited by DC-girl

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DC-girl,

Have you thought about creating a video to demonstrate your derma-stamp/needling process, as well as your vitamin and topical regimen?

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all i get out of dermastamping needling is bruising ...but

my scars are huge craters

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Rob X 22, maybe your needles are too long or you're being too rough with the stamping. Maybe you should try a shorter needle and use it in conjunction with suctioning (see owndoc dot com). Also, have you tried retin a? I know DC girl said she didn't like it, but the fact is retin a heals scars & induces collagen (plumps up the skin). The process is slow and you have to use it sparingly, but you should see results within 2-6 months. With continued use alongside conservative dermastamping/ single needling sessions, you should get excellent results (just use a natural moisturizer/ rosehip oil with tea tree oil or vitamin facial mist [ even with colloidal silver]).

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Does anyone reading have prior experience or research about derma-rolling/stamping/needling's effects on skin that's already been treated with punch floats and punch grafts? As in, will this negatively affect the repairs made to ice pick scars treated with punch techniques?

I have had several courses of punch floats and grafts, and am looking to treat some linear and rolling scars on my left cheek, as well as some indented areas. Recently, I've been looking into derma-rolling and stamping, but I don't know if it's worth trying out due to prior scar treatments.

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I feel like it would be fine to treat areas previously treated with surgical techniques. I've done excisions, and some of them did not turn out so well. I did many procedures such as fillers and resurfacing to try and correct the bad excisions. If anything, they've improved.

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I feel like it would be fine to treat areas previously treated with surgical techniques. I've done excisions, and some of them did not turn out so well. I did many procedures such as fillers and resurfacing to try and correct the bad excisions. If anything, they've improved.

Ever tried rolling, stamping or needling over your excisions?

And you are talking about punch excisions, right?

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Awesome progress DC-girl. I have a few questions.. what single needle were you using before recently purchasing owndoc's single needle? I know the main treatments you used were silicone droplet, tca, and needling.. what percentage would you say tca improved your scars and what percentage did needling improve your scars? Thank you.

Edited by trying2

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I have not done any punch grafts, but I have experience with very aggressive procedures like laser and dermabrasion over scars previously treated with punch and scalpel excisions. I did not notice any ill effects. I can't advise specifically about stamping over excised skin, but dermabrasion is the most aggressive thing you can do, and that did not make the excisions worse, it actually improved it.

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why did you mention no grains in your diet ?

Because they are inflammatory, harmful, accelerate aging and are hard to digest. They hurt your metabolism and therefore your ability to heal well. There's a ton of info out there about why you should stop eating grains and espectially wheat. Do your research.

Here's something to help you get started.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml

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I have not done any punch grafts, but I have experience with very aggressive procedures like laser and dermabrasion over scars previously treated with punch and scalpel excisions. I did not notice any ill effects. I can't advise specifically about stamping over excised skin, but dermabrasion is the most aggressive thing you can do, and that did not make the excisions worse, it actually improved it.

That's really helpful information. Thank you so much.

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