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The Evolutionary Biology Behind Acne


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#1 kokobear

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:42 PM

Does anyone have any theories? we all know acne has a strong genetic component but the question is why would it be selected. I've heard the theory that acne is meant to keep the opposite sex away through youth in order to prevent pregnancy until the person is an adult but I've always found that ridiculous as many, many people carry acne into adulthood and beyond so the theory doesn't add up. Why do you think this trait exists?


Edited by kokobear, 07 January 2014 - 07:43 PM.


#2 paigems

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:57 PM

I'm not sure is there even is a purpose for acne. If it serves any purpose I think it would be to indicate that something is not right internally. I tend to think that our skin is supposed to be more like the primitive people still around who do not get acne.



#3 Quetzlcoatl

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:49 PM

I think acne is a particularly interesting malady because it occurs mainly during adolescence, which is probably the most crucial time of one's life (if we're thinking about a paleolithic group of humans). As a young adolescent, your mother is no longer directly caring for you, and you don't have the strength or knowledge that you need to hunt or gather for yourself, so you need to make social alliances. Acne makes this much harder - in a paleolithic group, perhaps even close to impossible. I could even see it being so devastating to one's overall fitness (survival and reproduction) that it would be heavily selected against and disappear within a couple generations. But this is not the case; acne is still very much a part of many people's lives, so it must have had a gigantic benefit, one that would overcome the devastating shortage of social relationships at such a crucial stage of development.

 

There are two possible options that would make acne - and thus a lack of social relationships - a benefit. The first is that the lack of social relationships increases survival of kin by 'warning them away'. That is, by displaying spots, your body is telling others to stay away, or something bad might happen to them - they might pick up a disease, for example. The second option is that acne was a fleeting thing; it might happen here and there as a reaction to certain bad things, again a warning to others, but not a warning to 'stay away' - more a warning to not eat what you ate, or do the behavior that you did.

 

In neither case does acne occur chronically in a healthy individual. It simply wouldn't make sense if it did, and indeed we see in tribes all over the world that stick with traditional lifestyles a peculiar lack of acne, even during adolescence.

 

There's a possibility that modern circumstances are changing the conditions under which acne occurs; as in, we might not be sick, but because we're being exposed to a combination of chemicals or proteins in a particular way, our bodies think we are sick. There are a lot of novel chemicals and proteins (looking at you, GM foods) that could interact with our immensely complex immune systems in any number of ways. 90% of us have detectable levels of BPA in our blood, for example. Just think, for a moment, what other chemicals our bodies could hold, and how those chemicals are interacting, and then interacting again with our own enzymes. We don't have computers powerful enough to model the possible interactions, even if we had an algorithm. This is what's truly frightening.

 

Anyways, the theory that acne is meant to keep the opposite sex away (as if that's a good thing?) is trash, if humans weren't meant to have sex at puberty we wouldn't be fertile at puberty. Failure to deliver children safely is largely an outcome of terrible diets, epigenetics, and lack of selection that we've had for the last 12,000 years. (On a side note, apparently there was a study done in some hunter-gatherer tribe wherein they found that the females had a hormonal spike that prevented them from getting pregnant until 15 even if they had sex (and they did have sex). This is absent in industrialized nations, of course, maybe due to an interesting interplay between diet and xenoestrogens (such as BPA)?)



#4 alternativista

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:05 PM

Does anyone have any theories? we all know acne has a strong genetic component but the question is why would it be selected. I've heard the theory that acne is meant to keep the opposite sex away through youth in order to prevent pregnancy until the person is an adult but I've always found that ridiculous as many, many people carry acne into adulthood and beyond so the theory doesn't add up. Why do you think this trait exists?


That story is stupid. there isnt one gene that makes us prone to acne anyway. There are numerous genetic variation that make one prone to acne to do with how skin cells proliferate and how they exfoliate. And those also might lead to excema and other skin issues as opposed to acne. There might be an advantage to these variations, might not. Anyway, they are more likely epigenetics traits, rather thn genetic.

People prone to developing type II diabetes are adapted to survive famine. Also an epigenetics trait.

#5 SDR WellnessCoach

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 04:06 AM

I am one that is totally convinced that acne is a Autoimmune Disease and that would suggest that a single Gene is responsible. There are new blood tests on the way that will connect a Gene to a Disease to a Environmental Trigger. The DNA testing done by 23andMe can tell what allergic reaction you will have to a specific medication. All this info is in our DNA, they just have to let the people know.

#6 DanTheNewWorld

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 05:27 AM

imo acne has nothing to do with evolution, it's just a hormonal imbalance. could be triggered by many factors (including psychological devepment) as alambicated the ways of hormones are.

 

just 2 quick notes:

1. nobody in my family, brother/parents/grandparents ever had acne

2. statements like "the tribe people", "ancient", "isolated", "uncivilised" don't have acne make me want to have "acme". you just can't know if they have/had acne or not.

although, there are ancient writings about acne, so they had acne..


Edited by DanTheNewWorld, 08 January 2014 - 05:28 AM.


#7 DanTheNewWorld

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:00 AM

imo acne has nothing to do with evolution, it's just a hormonal imbalance. could be triggered by many factors (including psychological devepment) as alambicated the ways of hormones are.

 

just 2 quick notes:

1. nobody in my family, brother/parents/grandparents ever had acne

2. statements like "the tribe people", "ancient", "isolated", "uncivilised" don't have acne make me want to have "acme". you just can't know if they have/had acne or not.

although, there are ancient writings about acne, so they had acne..

also, my parents/grandparents eat and always ate the crappiest crap you could think of, the most unhealthy foods you can imagine ALL THE TIME ! from wayy early! and they're what.. 85 my grandparents and felling quite healthy. yes a couple of organs exhausted of screaming for help, and fixed/helped/etc by doctors but no acne ever in their lifetime. because it's a fu*king hormonal imbalance which has nothing to do with general bad health, or any general industrialisation..



#8 kokobear

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:25 AM

imo acne has nothing to do with evolution, it's just a hormonal imbalance. could be triggered by many factors (including psychological devepment) as alambicated the ways of hormones are.

 

just 2 quick notes:

1. nobody in my family, brother/parents/grandparents ever had acne

2. statements like "the tribe people", "ancient", "isolated", "uncivilised" don't have acne make me want to have "acme". you just can't know if they have/had acne or not.

although, there are ancient writings about acne, so they had acne..

 

Acne is not a hormonal imbalance, most acne patients have hormones in the normal range.



#9 DanTheNewWorld

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:36 AM

imo acne has nothing to do with evolution, it's just a hormonal imbalance. could be triggered by many factors (including psychological devepment) as alambicated the ways of hormones are.

 

just 2 quick notes:

1. nobody in my family, brother/parents/grandparents ever had acne

2. statements like "the tribe people", "ancient", "isolated", "uncivilised" don't have acne make me want to have "acme". you just can't know if they have/had acne or not.

although, there are ancient writings about acne, so they had acne..

 

Acne is not a hormonal imbalance, most acne patients have hormones in the normal range.

"Can I get a test that will tell me if DHT is causing my acne?

 

No. Medical testing for a sensitivity to DHT does not exist. You can get a test on your testosterone levels. Some people with acne actually have higher levels of androgens. But some have "normal" levels of androgens, yet still manifest symptoms." http://www.acne.org/...-men-and-women/

 

i'm quoting green gabbles lol.

the last derm that i saw on tv talking about acne said acne is a homonal imbalance.

she also said for women giving birth may create acne or eliminate it, but i'm repeating myself too often with this


Edited by DanTheNewWorld, 08 January 2014 - 10:38 AM.


#10 mrsrobinson

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:31 AM

don't you also think food is different today, than what our grandparents ate?   some of us are prone to acne of course, but GMO and chemically processed foods don't help

 

allergies are on the rise too...food is very different today, and not a good different....



#11 DanTheNewWorld

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:51 AM

don't you also think food is different today, than what our grandparents ate?   some of us are prone to acne of course, but GMO and chemically processed foods don't help

 

allergies are on the rise too...food is very different today, and not a good different....

even more than this actually, pesticides are super-estrogens, so are soft plastics, chicken injected with hormones, cows/fish given hormone inducers.. these were not present by my grandparents times.

 

so what? this would never equal: acne = bad diet.  unhealthy diet. (but rather hormone contaminated diet <a different story)

making such a theory is as dangerously as going to the "gypsy" (white magic/witch/fortune tellers) for a disease, instead of going to the doctor.

 

PLUS:

the majority of foods incriminated in the acne domain are actually healthy like:

-soy

-flaxseeds

-wheat

-yeast

-nuts

-yogurt

-etc etc

 

also, eating healthy does not equal good health. humans are highly social beigns. that is way more important.

also, many times in unspiritual societies (like today) matter is extremely important, thus:

it is a social requierement to get through tests:

-drinking coffe with colleags

-drinking as much alcohol as you can

-smoking

-wearing short skirts/thin clothes in the freezing cold

-drinking sodas without causing oral bacterial imbalance (bad breath)

-etc, natural selection tests


Edited by DanTheNewWorld, 08 January 2014 - 12:52 PM.


#12 kokobear

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:31 PM

 

imo acne has nothing to do with evolution, it's just a hormonal imbalance. could be triggered by many factors (including psychological devepment) as alambicated the ways of hormones are.

 

just 2 quick notes:

1. nobody in my family, brother/parents/grandparents ever had acne

2. statements like "the tribe people", "ancient", "isolated", "uncivilised" don't have acne make me want to have "acme". you just can't know if they have/had acne or not.

although, there are ancient writings about acne, so they had acne..

 

Acne is not a hormonal imbalance, most acne patients have hormones in the normal range.

"Can I get a test that will tell me if DHT is causing my acne?

 

No. Medical testing for a sensitivity to DHT does not exist. You can get a test on your testosterone levels. Some people with acne actually have higher levels of androgens. But some have "normal" levels of androgens, yet still manifest symptoms." http://www.acne.org/...-men-and-women/

 

i'm quoting green gabbles lol.

the last derm that i saw on tv talking about acne said acne is a homonal imbalance.

she also said for women giving birth may create acne or eliminate it, but i'm repeating myself too often with this

 

I'm guessing you are quite young, yeah?



#13 DanTheNewWorld

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:37 PM

 

 

imo acne has nothing to do with evolution, it's just a hormonal imbalance. could be triggered by many factors (including psychological devepment) as alambicated the ways of hormones are.

 

just 2 quick notes:

1. nobody in my family, brother/parents/grandparents ever had acne

2. statements like "the tribe people", "ancient", "isolated", "uncivilised" don't have acne make me want to have "acme". you just can't know if they have/had acne or not.

although, there are ancient writings about acne, so they had acne..

 

Acne is not a hormonal imbalance, most acne patients have hormones in the normal range.

"Can I get a test that will tell me if DHT is causing my acne?

 

No. Medical testing for a sensitivity to DHT does not exist. You can get a test on your testosterone levels. Some people with acne actually have higher levels of androgens. But some have "normal" levels of androgens, yet still manifest symptoms." http://www.acne.org/...-men-and-women/

 

i'm quoting green gabbles lol.

the last derm that i saw on tv talking about acne said acne is a homonal imbalance.

she also said for women giving birth may create acne or eliminate it, but i'm repeating myself too often with this

 

I'm guessing you are quite young, yeah?

no (29y), but i like where you're going with this lol, continue..



#14 alternativista

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:22 PM

I am one that is totally convinced that acne is a Autoimmune Disease and that would suggest that a single Gene is responsible. There are new blood tests on the way that will connect a Gene to a Disease to a Environmental Trigger. The DNA testing done by 23andMe can tell what allergic reaction you will have to a specific medication. All this info is in our DNA, they just have to let the people know.

 

In my research I've encountered numerous gene/enzyme mutations that affect various factors involved in how skin cells proliferate & exfoliate that have been found to be different in problem prone skin.  Also, they've discovered that we tend to have a different, less beneficial species of P. acnes bacteria.  I have a thread listing the various differences between 'us' and 'them' that I've found.



imo acne has nothing to do with evolution, it's just a hormonal imbalance. could be triggered by many factors (including psychological devepment) as alambicated the ways of hormones are.

 

just 2 quick notes:

1. nobody in my family, brother/parents/grandparents ever had acne

2. statements like "the tribe people", "ancient", "isolated", "uncivilised" don't have acne make me want to have "acme". you just can't know if they have/had acne or not.

although, there are ancient writings about acne, so they had acne..

 

 

There are observable groups of people free of acne. 



#15 alternativista

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:41 PM

 

imo acne has nothing to do with evolution, it's just a hormonal imbalance. could be triggered by many factors (including psychological devepment) as alambicated the ways of hormones are.

 

just 2 quick notes:

1. nobody in my family, brother/parents/grandparents ever had acne

2. statements like "the tribe people", "ancient", "isolated", "uncivilised" don't have acne make me want to have "acme". you just can't know if they have/had acne or not.

although, there are ancient writings about acne, so they had acne..

 

Acne is not a hormonal imbalance, most acne patients have hormones in the normal range.

"Can I get a test that will tell me if DHT is causing my acne?

 

No. Medical testing for a sensitivity to DHT does not exist. You can get a test on your testosterone levels. Some people with acne actually have higher levels of androgens. But some have "normal" levels of androgens, yet still manifest symptoms." http://www.acne.org/...-men-and-women/

 

i'm quoting green gabbles lol.

the last derm that i saw on tv talking about acne said acne is a homonal imbalance.

she also said for women giving birth may create acne or eliminate it, but i'm repeating myself too often with this

Yes, they might . Or they might not.  And many of us have acne while having normal hormone levels.  At least normal sex hormones. The growth hormone IgF1 is a much bigger factor in acne formation.  And IgF-1 is stimulated by insulin.  Excess sugar leads to excess insulin which leads to excess IgF1.  IgF-1 is also in dairy. And stimulated by dairy which is high in insulinemic amino acids that stimulate insulin release directly.


Edited by alternativista, 08 January 2014 - 02:43 PM.


#16 SDR WellnessCoach

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 03:19 PM

I am one that is totally convinced that acne is a Autoimmune Disease and that would suggest that a single Gene is responsible. There are new blood tests on the way that will connect a Gene to a Disease to a Environmental Trigger. The DNA testing done by 23andMe can tell what allergic reaction you will have to a specific medication. All this info is in our DNA, they just have to let the people know.

 
In my research I've encountered numerous gene/enzyme mutations that affect various factors involved in how skin cells proliferate & exfoliate that have been found to be different in problem prone skin.  Also, they've discovered that we tend to have a different, less beneficial species of P. acnes bacteria.  I have a thread listing the various differences between 'us' and 'them' that I've found.





imo acne has nothing to do with evolution, it's just a hormonal imbalance. could be triggered by many factors (including psychological devepment) as alambicated the ways of hormones are.
 
just 2 quick notes:
1. nobody in my family, brother/parents/grandparents ever had acne
2. statements like "the tribe people", "ancient", "isolated", "uncivilised" don't have acne make me want to have "acme". you just can't know if they have/had acne or not.
although, there are ancient writings about acne, so they had acne..

 
 
There are observable groups of people free of acne. 

We started at opposite ends of this but we will meet in the middle. You are learning the functionality of acne while I was learning what puts it in motion.

I've been working on the functionality of many chronic diseases but there are so many and I haven't gotten to acne yet but I believe you are 100% correct. You also do your homework.

One other thing that I have come to the conclusion to. Everyone carries the "acne gene" , most people, however, do not encounter their trigger. This comes from the fact, whether or not you believe in Adam and Eve, we all have the same origin (unless your ancestors flew here from another planet) and different triggers. I've encountered acne being caused by Chocolate, Wheat, Medication, Soy, Milk, Dental Implants, Floride, and Organges. I'm sure there are a million more.

#17 alternativista

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 03:24 PM

Everyone carries the "acne gene" , most people, however, do not encounter their trigger.

 

Maybe. Because the issue isn't necessarily the genes.  Turns out after all the mapping was done, we don't have that many genes.  It's the enzymes. And they are switched on and off by what you do to yourself or by what your parents did and then are passed down to you.  In the study involving epigenetics & diabetes prone people, they found it took a few generations for the switch back to 'normal.'

 

Here's the thread:  http://www.acne.org/...volved-in-acne/


Edited by alternativista, 08 January 2014 - 03:37 PM.


#18 SDR WellnessCoach

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 04:06 PM

Everyone carries the "acne gene" , most people, however, do not encounter their trigger.

 
Maybe. Because the issue isn't necessarily the genes.  Turns out after all the mapping was done, we don't have that many genes.  It's the enzymes. And they are switched on and off by what you do to yourself or by what your parents did and then are passed down to you.  In the study involving epigenetics & diabetes prone people, they found it took a few generations for the switch back to 'normal.'
 
Here's the thread:  http://www.acne.org/...volved-in-acne/

Again, you are probably right. Our tendencies are a unknown.

In a article in Diabetes Forecast, researchers announced that they "turned off" the Diabetes Gene in mice which ended their Diabetes. In another article, they tested 2000 babies in which both parents where Diabetic and found not only do the babies carry the Autoimmune ab's in Diabetes, their trigger is Gluten (wheat). Lots of research is pointing not only to Genes but our DNA as the determining factor for what Genes are "turned on" . Also, our DNA is determining our Food Allergies (sensitivities) . I'm also finding this in what I do.

#19 alternativista

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 06:07 PM

 

Everyone carries the "acne gene" , most people, however, do not encounter their trigger.

 
Maybe. Because the issue isn't necessarily the genes.  Turns out after all the mapping was done, we don't have that many genes.  It's the enzymes. And they are switched on and off by what you do to yourself or by what your parents did and then are passed down to you.  In the study involving epigenetics & diabetes prone people, they found it took a few generations for the switch back to 'normal.'
 
Here's the thread:  http://www.acne.org/...volved-in-acne/

Again, you are probably right. Our tendencies are a unknown.

In a article in Diabetes Forecast, researchers announced that they "turned off" the Diabetes Gene in mice which ended their Diabetes. In another article, they tested 2000 babies in which both parents where Diabetic and found not only do the babies carry the Autoimmune ab's in Diabetes, their trigger is Gluten (wheat). Lots of research is pointing not only to Genes but our DNA as the determining factor for what Genes are "turned on" . Also, our DNA is determining our Food Allergies (sensitivities) . I'm also finding this in what I do.

 

Have you looked into methylation?  There was once a thread here that I've never been able to find here listing symptoms of people who where under  methylators  vs over methylators.  Didn't seem to apply to me. But since methylation is involved in epigenetics, I try from time to time to research it. Just never get that far or commit anything to usable memory.  I just keep consuming the sulfur based amino acids needed for methylation & hope I'm switching the right switches.  Here's this thread: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/328647-low-methylation-as-a-cause-for-acne/#entry3346345  and my epigenetics thread:  http://www.acne.org/...ene-expression/


Edited by alternativista, 08 January 2014 - 06:08 PM.


#20 SDR WellnessCoach

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 07:08 PM



 



Everyone carries the "acne gene" , most people, however, do not encounter their trigger.

 
Maybe. Because the issue isn't necessarily the genes.  Turns out after all the mapping was done, we don't have that many genes.  It's the enzymes. And they are switched on and off by what you do to yourself or by what your parents did and then are passed down to you.  In the study involving epigenetics & diabetes prone people, they found it took a few generations for the switch back to 'normal.'
 
Here's the thread:  http://www.acne.org/...volved-in-acne/
Again, you are probably right. Our tendencies are a unknown.
In a article in Diabetes Forecast, researchers announced that they "turned off" the Diabetes Gene in mice which ended their Diabetes. In another article, they tested 2000 babies in which both parents where Diabetic and found not only do the babies carry the Autoimmune ab's in Diabetes, their trigger is Gluten (wheat). Lots of research is pointing not only to Genes but our DNA as the determining factor for what Genes are "turned on" . Also, our DNA is determining our Food Allergies (sensitivities) . I'm also finding this in what I do.
 
Have you looked into methylation?  There was once a thread here that I've never been able to find here listing symptoms of people who where under  methylators  vs over methylators.  Didn't seem to apply to me. But since methylation is involved in epigenetics, I try from time to time to research it. Just never get that far or commit anything to usable memory.  I just keep consuming the sulfur based amino acids needed for methylation & hope I'm switching the right switches.  Here's this thread: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/328647-low-methylation-as-a-cause-for-acne/#entry3346345  and my epigenetics thread:  http://www.acne.org/...ene-expression/
I feel like we highjacked this thread but the knowledge being dropped is more than you will learn anywhere else imo.

I totally agree with most of it. The one thing that I have an opposite opinion on (which I'm working on proving) is parents don't change their Genes. What I believe is Genes are altered in the womb. This theory of mine is supported by birth defects.

A baby formula maker in Sweden added Gluten to the formula which caused devastating results. 35% of the babies developed Celiac Disease. After removing the Gluten, the rate of Celiac Disease went back to normal. That started a debate on when to introduce Gluten to children. The problem with this is babies are exposed to Gluten at conception.

Another thing is Downs Syndrome. What is publicly know is the estimated number of people with C.D. is 1%, people with NCGS is 6%, and the number of people with Downs Syndrome with C.D. is between 10% & 35%. I think it's obvious that there is a connection between Gluten and birth defects.

This is a little deep but I will say it anyway. To me, this also explains how we went from dark skin (as some scientists propose) to different shades. I know we have so many food allergies to common foods that our ancestors ate them and that very well could have altered offspring. Evolution, birth defects, doesn't matter. I believe that they have a common cause. Our environment has a negative impact on us and altered us.

ps... to anyone reading this, I refer to the Gluten studies because that's all there is right now. My personal research has revealed to me that you can insert Soy, Milk, Eggs, ect. In place of Gluten when talking about their research.

Edited by SDR WellnessCoach, 08 January 2014 - 07:47 PM.





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