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My Plan To Get Rid Of Helicobacter Pylori, Ulcer And Thus Leaky Gut

helicobacter pylori leaky gut antibiotics black cumin black seed thyme multivitamins probiotics

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#1 Borkoff

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:56 AM

Hi everybody!

 

I know that there is no one single underlying cause for acne - for hyperkeratinization. There are many underlying complex causes but I have come to conclusion that as I have acne regardless of what I eat then then the problem must be also lying within me - my digestive system. As we all know, the digestive system is the root of all health.

 

It is a fact that Helicobacter pylori bacteria causes ulcer by deteriorating stomach lining. I know that modern medicine recognize the "leaky gut" syndrome but I as many other believe that these are very similar things.

 

Of course I know not everybody who has Helicobacter or ulcer has acne but these things can certainly aggravate acne. I have previously tested positive for helicobacter and also ulcer was detected after gastroskopy.

 

I have a plan I would like to hear opinions about it.

 

The plan is to get on antibiotic course (tetracycline) to eradicate Helicobacter. And after that to use black cumin/black seed or/together thyme oil and maybe also manuka honey to prevent getting infected with it again. Also I will be using probiotics and multivitamins during and for a while after the antibiotic course. Also I will be using glutamine supplement to promote healing of stomach lining. In the end I believe I will be having totally healthy digestive system and no leaky gut.

 

What do you all think about this plan? Maybe some additional ideas or maybe even ideas about other causes for acne from within the body I should be look into?



#2 Green Gables

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 12:48 PM

I think you should read about the connection between:

 

- Stomach acid levels

- Stomach lining health

 

and H. pylori.

 

The best way to combat H. pylori is to raise your stomach acid levels. The acid kills H. pylori. Over time, H. pylori actually secretes an ammonia-like substance which neutralizes your stomach acid and lowers your levels. It also burrows into your stomach mucus to protect itself from the acid. You need to regenerate your stomach lining (to repair any holes the H. pylori has created) while also getting your stomach acid back up to normal levels to kill H. pylori. It has to come out to eat, so if you always have a good level of stomach acid when you consume food, you will eventually starve it.


Edited by Green Gables, 28 October 2013 - 12:49 PM.


#3 Borkoff

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:53 AM

I think you should read about the connection between:

 

- Stomach acid levels

- Stomach lining health

 

and H. pylori.

 

The best way to combat H. pylori is to raise your stomach acid levels. The acid kills H. pylori. Over time, H. pylori actually secretes an ammonia-like substance which neutralizes your stomach acid and lowers your levels. It also burrows into your stomach mucus to protect itself from the acid. You need to regenerate your stomach lining (to repair any holes the H. pylori has created) while also getting your stomach acid back up to normal levels to kill H. pylori. It has to come out to eat, so if you always have a good level of stomach acid when you consume food, you will eventually starve it.

 

Yes, stomach acid kills Helicobacter Pylori but unfortunately only in vitro (in a test tube) not in vivo (within the living).

I found an official study that describes how Helicobacter Pylori survives the stomach acid:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1117475/

 

Anyway low stomach acid can be a problem and contribute to acne. What do you think might be the cause of low stomach acid levels? Of course there is always a possibility to rise the stomach acid levels by using some supplements but that would only solve the consequences not solve the cause of the problem.


Edited by Borkoff, 29 October 2013 - 05:09 AM.


#4 WishClean

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:33 PM

I'm interested in this too. If h. pylori causes ulcers, then would taking an HCl supplement for low stomach acid make it worse? The HCl supplement I just bought says not to take it if you have stomach ulcers. 



#5 Borkoff

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 05:07 PM

I'm interested in this too. If h. pylori causes ulcers, then would taking an HCl supplement for low stomach acid make it worse? The HCl supplement I just bought says not to take it if you have stomach ulcers. 

 

I dont really know if taking HCl supplement would  but what I really do know now is that low stomach is a sign of profound suppression of gastric acid - low stomach acid level. Here's a study: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9207257



#6 Green Gables

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:10 AM

I'm interested in this too. If h. pylori causes ulcers, then would taking an HCl supplement for low stomach acid make it worse? The HCl supplement I just bought says not to take it if you have stomach ulcers. 

 

Current medical practice is to lower stomach acid even further with proton pump inhibitors and then give you heavy dose antibiotics to kill H. pylori.

 

However, you just created the perfect environment for reinfection because H. pylori thrives in low gastric acid environments, and you also created a wealth of other problems by shutting off your proton pumps, reducing your digestive capability, and killing all of your beneficial bacteria.

 

When I had IBS I also had ulcers. I was treated with proton pump inhibitors + antacids + antibiotics. These made things WORSE. My ulcers increased. I wasn't getting nutrients from food. I was tired all the time. This was a long-term kind of worse, because I was treated for IBS over a number of YEARS. 

 

The only thing that worked for me was HCL + Pespin + Digestive enzymes and going off of all the antacids and antibiotics. My ulcers eventually healed on this regimen and my IBS symptoms went away.

 

Yes, stomach acid can irritate ulcers because they are essentially holes in your lining. However, you HAVE to eat regularly, and to digest food you have to have gastric acid. The theory is that ulcers heal faster without the irritation of stomach acid. But what are you trading? Malnourishment? Infection? (gastric acid is our natural sterilizer and neturalizes tons of bad bacteria and microbes in our food). Your body isn't meant to not have gastric acid. So unless you plan to get your food through an IV tube and wait for 5 months while your ulcers heal from proton pump inhibitors...

 

I believe it is more important to keep your gastric acid at the appropriate levels and to take other steps to heal ulcers (if you know you have them). You can take slippery elm which will actually coat the stomach lining to protect it. You can modify how and what you eat. You can take things that speed up the growth of fibrous tissue (which is how the body heals ulcers). 

 

But when your stomach is not at the correct acidic pH it needs to be for proper digestion / sterilization, I personally believe that is much more detrimental.

 

We should also remember that the CDC reports that 2/3rds of the population are infected with H. pylori. The MAJORITY of these people don't manifest symptoms. Well, what does H. pylori hate? Gastric acid. This is why it secrets an ammonia-like substance to further lower gastric acid so it can survive. If you have normal gastric acid levels, you will probably never experience any consequences from your little H. pylori infestation. However, if your stomach acid is too low, you just let H. pylori thrive, breed, and become a real problem. 


Edited by Green Gables, 03 November 2013 - 11:16 AM.


#7 WishClean

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:31 PM

I'm interested in this too. If h. pylori causes ulcers, then would taking an HCl supplement for low stomach acid make it worse? The HCl supplement I just bought says not to take it if you have stomach ulcers. 

 

Current medical practice is to lower stomach acid even further with proton pump inhibitors and then give you heavy dose antibiotics to kill H. pylori.

 

However, you just created the perfect environment for reinfection because H. pylori thrives in low gastric acid environments, and you also created a wealth of other problems by shutting off your proton pumps, reducing your digestive capability, and killing all of your beneficial bacteria.

 

When I had IBS I also had ulcers. I was treated with proton pump inhibitors + antacids + antibiotics. These made things WORSE. My ulcers increased. I wasn't getting nutrients from food. I was tired all the time. This was a long-term kind of worse, because I was treated for IBS over a number of YEARS. 

 

The only thing that worked for me was HCL + Pespin + Digestive enzymes and going off of all the antacids and antibiotics. My ulcers eventually healed on this regimen and my IBS symptoms went away.

 

Yes, stomach acid can irritate ulcers because they are essentially holes in your lining. However, you HAVE to eat regularly, and to digest food you have to have gastric acid. The theory is that ulcers heal faster without the irritation of stomach acid. But what are you trading? Malnourishment? Infection? (gastric acid is our natural sterilizer and neturalizes tons of bad bacteria and microbes in our food). Your body isn't meant to not have gastric acid. So unless you plan to get your food through an IV tube and wait for 5 months while your ulcers heal from proton pump inhibitors...

 

I believe it is more important to keep your gastric acid at the appropriate levels and to take other steps to heal ulcers (if you know you have them). You can take slippery elm which will actually coat the stomach lining to protect it. You can modify how and what you eat. You can take things that speed up the growth of fibrous tissue (which is how the body heals ulcers). 

 

But when your stomach is not at the correct acidic pH it needs to be for proper digestion / sterilization, I personally believe that is much more detrimental.

 

We should also remember that the CDC reports that 2/3rds of the population are infected with H. pylori. The MAJORITY of these people don't manifest symptoms. Well, what does H. pylori hate? Gastric acid. This is why it secrets an ammonia-like substance to further lower gastric acid so it can survive. If you have normal gastric acid levels, you will probably never experience any consequences from your little H. pylori infestation. However, if your stomach acid is too low, you just let H. pylori thrive, breed, and become a real problem. 

Thanks for the info. I definitely think there's something going on with both my stomach/digestion and hormones. 

I have been taking pepsin &hcl for 3 days, and I am breaking out! I also noticed some itching at night, but that could be coincidental.Could this be a purging reaction, or should I stop? 



#8 Green Gables

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:43 PM

 

I'm interested in this too. If h. pylori causes ulcers, then would taking an HCl supplement for low stomach acid make it worse? The HCl supplement I just bought says not to take it if you have stomach ulcers. 

 

Current medical practice is to lower stomach acid even further with proton pump inhibitors and then give you heavy dose antibiotics to kill H. pylori.

 

However, you just created the perfect environment for reinfection because H. pylori thrives in low gastric acid environments, and you also created a wealth of other problems by shutting off your proton pumps, reducing your digestive capability, and killing all of your beneficial bacteria.

 

When I had IBS I also had ulcers. I was treated with proton pump inhibitors + antacids + antibiotics. These made things WORSE. My ulcers increased. I wasn't getting nutrients from food. I was tired all the time. This was a long-term kind of worse, because I was treated for IBS over a number of YEARS. 

 

The only thing that worked for me was HCL + Pespin + Digestive enzymes and going off of all the antacids and antibiotics. My ulcers eventually healed on this regimen and my IBS symptoms went away.

 

Yes, stomach acid can irritate ulcers because they are essentially holes in your lining. However, you HAVE to eat regularly, and to digest food you have to have gastric acid. The theory is that ulcers heal faster without the irritation of stomach acid. But what are you trading? Malnourishment? Infection? (gastric acid is our natural sterilizer and neturalizes tons of bad bacteria and microbes in our food). Your body isn't meant to not have gastric acid. So unless you plan to get your food through an IV tube and wait for 5 months while your ulcers heal from proton pump inhibitors...

 

I believe it is more important to keep your gastric acid at the appropriate levels and to take other steps to heal ulcers (if you know you have them). You can take slippery elm which will actually coat the stomach lining to protect it. You can modify how and what you eat. You can take things that speed up the growth of fibrous tissue (which is how the body heals ulcers). 

 

But when your stomach is not at the correct acidic pH it needs to be for proper digestion / sterilization, I personally believe that is much more detrimental.

 

We should also remember that the CDC reports that 2/3rds of the population are infected with H. pylori. The MAJORITY of these people don't manifest symptoms. Well, what does H. pylori hate? Gastric acid. This is why it secrets an ammonia-like substance to further lower gastric acid so it can survive. If you have normal gastric acid levels, you will probably never experience any consequences from your little H. pylori infestation. However, if your stomach acid is too low, you just let H. pylori thrive, breed, and become a real problem. 

Thanks for the info. I definitely think there's something going on with both my stomach/digestion and hormones. 

I have been taking pepsin &hcl for 3 days, and I am breaking out! I also noticed some itching at night, but that could be coincidental.Could this be a purging reaction, or should I stop? 

 

I think it's fair to be worried about purging reactions. For example, retinoids have a cellular action that can actually inflame clogged pores into active acne, so retinoids can literally make you purge over and over if your skin creates clogged pores.

 

I also find that things like probiotics are hard to control because they are living organisms. You could be doing good, or you could be doing a world of hurt.

 

However there is no mechanism in betaine HCL to "create" acne from something. It's just gastric acid. If you're taking too much of it, it's not going to manifest as more acne. It's going to manifest as severe uncontrollable heartburn.

 

So if you are indeed purging and it is indeed from the betaine HCL, then it's like any purge that happens with better digestion, it is an actual "beneficial" purge that will lessen with time. 



#9 JennaBean

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:47 PM


 


I'm interested in this too. If h. pylori causes ulcers, then would taking an HCl supplement for low stomach acid make it worse? The HCl supplement I just bought says not to take it if you have stomach ulcers. 

 

Current medical practice is to lower stomach acid even further with proton pump inhibitors and then give you heavy dose antibiotics to kill H. pylori.
 
However, you just created the perfect environment for reinfection because H. pylori thrives in low gastric acid environments, and you also created a wealth of other problems by shutting off your proton pumps, reducing your digestive capability, and killing all of your beneficial bacteria.
 
When I had IBS I also had ulcers. I was treated with proton pump inhibitors + antacids + antibiotics. These made things WORSE. My ulcers increased. I wasn't getting nutrients from food. I was tired all the time. This was a long-term kind of worse, because I was treated for IBS over a number of YEARS. 
 
The only thing that worked for me was HCL + Pespin + Digestive enzymes and going off of all the antacids and antibiotics. My ulcers eventually healed on this regimen and my IBS symptoms went away.
 
Yes, stomach acid can irritate ulcers because they are essentially holes in your lining. However, you HAVE to eat regularly, and to digest food you have to have gastric acid. The theory is that ulcers heal faster without the irritation of stomach acid. But what are you trading? Malnourishment? Infection? (gastric acid is our natural sterilizer and neturalizes tons of bad bacteria and microbes in our food). Your body isn't meant to not have gastric acid. So unless you plan to get your food through an IV tube and wait for 5 months while your ulcers heal from proton pump inhibitors...
 
I believe it is more important to keep your gastric acid at the appropriate levels and to take other steps to heal ulcers (if you know you have them). You can take slippery elm which will actually coat the stomach lining to protect it. You can modify how and what you eat. You can take things that speed up the growth of fibrous tissue (which is how the body heals ulcers). 
 
But when your stomach is not at the correct acidic pH it needs to be for proper digestion / sterilization, I personally believe that is much more detrimental.
 
We should also remember that the CDC reports that 2/3rds of the population are infected with H. pylori. The MAJORITY of these people don't manifest symptoms. Well, what does H. pylori hate? Gastric acid. This is why it secrets an ammonia-like substance to further lower gastric acid so it can survive. If you have normal gastric acid levels, you will probably never experience any consequences from your little H. pylori infestation. However, if your stomach acid is too low, you just let H. pylori thrive, breed, and become a real problem. 
Thanks for the info. I definitely think there's something going on with both my stomach/digestion and hormones. 
I have been taking pepsin &hcl for 3 days, and I am breaking out! I also noticed some itching at night, but that could be coincidental.Could this be a purging reaction, or should I stop? 
 
I think it's fair to be worried about purging reactions. For example, retinoids have a cellular action that can actually inflame clogged pores into active acne, so retinoids can literally make you purge over and over if your skin creates clogged pores.
 
I also find that things like probiotics are hard to control because they are living organisms. You could be doing good, or you could be doing a world of hurt.
 
However there is no mechanism in betaine HCL to "create" acne from something. It's just gastric acid. If you're taking too much of it, it's not going to manifest as more acne. It's going to manifest as severe uncontrollable heartburn.
 
So if you are indeed purging and it is indeed from the betaine HCL, then it's like any purge that happens with better digestion, it is an actual "beneficial" purge that will lessen with time. 


Hi Green Gables, I've never heard that about Probiotics!! I need to start doing some research on that!

#10 Green Gables

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 05:39 PM

Hi Green Gables, I've never heard that about Probiotics!! I need to start doing some research on that!

 

Some people using probiotics have inadvertently given themselves SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth). 



#11 Riddled

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 05:55 PM

Hey, is Helicobacter pylori actually linked to leaky gut? Also i don't think Leaky gut syndrome is even a recognized medical diagnosis.

I am more guilty than most of messing around with all kinds of mad-cap ideas, but i think there is a difference between dealing with acne and a condition that is potentially life threatening. 

 

Saying that i understand what your talking about as i also have digestive problems as well as skin problems, as many others do, but that doesn't mean they are actually linked though, no matter how much it makes sense that they are. Correlation doesn't = causation etc.

 

I think H-pylori is related to ulcers in a similar way that the p-acnes bacterium is related to acne. Ie as others have said, more than 50% of the world's population actually have H-pylori in their upper gastrointestinal tract but up to 85% of those never experience symptoms or complications. Similar to the p-acnes bacterium, in that many have it on their skin, but not all of them have acne. You can get rid of acne by constantly trying to remove the p-acnes, as per the regime of this website and using antibiotics etc, but there doesn't seem to be any way of permanently getting rid of it. But when it comes to life threatening conditions, if it is known treating the h-pylori will help cure the ulcer and risk, you really have no choice. 

 

Anyway.

 

It would be interesting to know what the exact "cause" of stomach ulcers is in the same way we don't even know what the exact cause of acne is.

 

What is it that causes H-pylori to become a problem when it's usually in symbiosis with us?

 

Maybe it is some kind of "Dysbiosis" of other gut bacteria and the gut biome etc?

 

I don't know what i am talking about but it seems that a lot of gut problems like SIBO etc are caused by an overgrowth of "bad" bacteria or even just an overgrowth gut bacteria itself. The question is what leads to the bacteria getting out of "balance"? It seems that in many cases it is because we are not digesting certain foods properly and/or our mental state [stress etc] leads to inefficient digestion and then malabsorbing etc, which leads to "overfeeding" of the bacteria in our gut. If we can work out what and/or why we are not digesting certain foods properly we can then address these as a means to "rebalancing" the gut bacteria.

 

Whats interesting is that i see H-pylori oxidizes Hydrogen (H2which is actually produced by other intestinal bacteria. Maybe by feeding the other intestinal bacteria we then "overfeed" the H-pylori?

 

I wonder if you have any problems with gas like bloating, burping/belching etc? Maybe signs of excessive Hydrogen production etc?

 

 

Anyhows, good luck.



#12 JennaBean

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:12 PM

Hi Green Gables, I've never heard that about Probiotics!! I need to start doing some research on that!

 
Some people using probiotics have inadvertently given themselves SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth). 


Wow! And literally just last month, my esthetician convinced me to buy these "amazing" probiotics from her. Apparently they are "a game changer". Seriously, I don't know who to trust anymore.

#13 Borkoff

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:32 AM

Hey, is Helicobacter pylori actually linked to leaky gut? Also i don't think Leaky gut syndrome is even a recognized medical diagnosis.

I am more guilty than most of messing around with all kinds of mad-cap ideas, but i think there is a difference between dealing with acne and a condition that is potentially life threatening. 

 

Saying that i understand what your talking about as i also have digestive problems as well as skin problems, as many others do, but that doesn't mean they are actually linked though, no matter how much it makes sense that they are. Correlation doesn't = causation etc.

 

I think H-pylori is related to ulcers in a similar way that the p-acnes bacterium is related to acne. Ie as others have said, more than 50% of the world's population actually have H-pylori in their upper gastrointestinal tract but up to 85% of those never experience symptoms or complications. Similar to the p-acnes bacterium, in that many have it on their skin, but not all of them have acne. You can get rid of acne by constantly trying to remove the p-acnes, as per the regime of this website and using antibiotics etc, but there doesn't seem to be any way of permanently getting rid of it. But when it comes to life threatening conditions, if it is known treating the h-pylori will help cure the ulcer and risk, you really have no choice. 

 

Anyway.

 

It would be interesting to know what the exact "cause" of stomach ulcers is in the same way we don't even know what the exact cause of acne is.

 

What is it that causes H-pylori to become a problem when it's usually in symbiosis with us?

 

Maybe it is some kind of "Dysbiosis" of other gut bacteria and the gut biome etc?

 

I don't know what i am talking about but it seems that a lot of gut problems like SIBO etc are caused by an overgrowth of "bad" bacteria or even just an overgrowth gut bacteria itself. The question is what leads to the bacteria getting out of "balance"? It seems that in many cases it is because we are not digesting certain foods properly and/or our mental state [stress etc] leads to inefficient digestion and then malabsorbing etc, which leads to "overfeeding" of the bacteria in our gut. If we can work out what and/or why we are not digesting certain foods properly we can then address these as a means to "rebalancing" the gut bacteria.

 

Whats interesting is that i see H-pylori oxidizes Hydrogen (H2which is actually produced by other intestinal bacteria. Maybe by feeding the other intestinal bacteria we then "overfeed" the H-pylori?

 

I wonder if you have any problems with gas like bloating, burping/belching etc? Maybe signs of excessive Hydrogen production etc?

 

 

Anyhows, good luck.

 

I will try to answer to your question "is Helicobacter pylori actually linked to leaky gut?" and "It would be interesting to know what the exact "cause" of stomach ulcers is"

Helicobacter Plyori is the main cause of ulcers in ~90%. Source:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16621751

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8287340

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10968075

And a link from CDC:http://www.cdc.gov/ulcer/keytocure.htm

 

What is ulcer? By definition it is a defect in the stomach lining. A hole or permeability. (Source: http://www.nlm.nih.g...icle/000206.htm)

Yes, leaky gut is not recognized as a medical diagnosis but it is the same thing as ulcer and "leaky gut" is not recognized just because not everybody experience the same syptoms. It has not been fully reseached exactly as nobody yet knows the exact cause of acne.
So, yes, not everybody who has H.Pylori or an ulcer will have acne but this is logical that it can seriously aggravate it. Why? Because acne is also an infection or immune response (besides many other things that correlates to acne). When the toxins and bacteria from gut during digestion process through permeable stomch lining gets into bloodstream. The question is - should it be so? No. So that is why I want to cure it.

 

This is an interesting article on the topic:http://chriskresser....fixing-your-gut

 

And, yes, some level of bad bacteria will always result in one's digestive system during digestion process so we should care about the level of good bacteria in our gut. But Helicobacter Pylori is much more than just bad bacteria. It just should not be there.


Edited by Borkoff, 08 November 2013 - 03:40 AM.





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