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Inositol's Impact On Hormonal Acne

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#41 WishClean

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:30 PM

I wanted to update because I can officially say that I  am no longer on the verge of growing a beard lol. Inositol is doing a good job of keeping hirsutism in check. I didn't take it for a couple of days during ovulation to check if I can take it only on days where progesterone & estrogen don't peak, but I got a couple of stray hairs on my chin. The other positive change is that my blood flow during my period has been looking more normal since I started the inositol, which I'm thrilled about. 

Anyway, I'm going to the doctor on Wednesday to check my Vitamin D levels, and I thought I should get my hormones checked while I'm there. I'm going to ask for the full panel, but the thing is, I feel more "balanced" hormonally and I hope the tests will still be able to give me an indication of which hormones are off. I hope the full panel also included cortisol, because I was under chronic stress for over a year and I bet my cortisol was off the charts. Does anyone know if they can check melatonin as well? I have chronic insomnia, but at this point I don't want to add a melatonin supplement to help me sleep because I don't want to add to many things to my regimen.  

I added CDG a few days ago, and so far so good. Only taking 200mg - not sure how much I would need to take for PCOS, but on the bottle it says not to exceed this dose. It does seem a bit low though. I will ask my doc about DIM too, I'm still considering it! 


Edited by WishClean, 18 November 2013 - 10:31 PM.

Supplements: inositol, DIM, digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: Low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials... (although I have been slacking lately)

** Find the cause, find the cure **

 


#42 Green Gables

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 05:47 PM

I was curious, was your hirsutism facial hair always dark? Do you get blonde hairs that are too long to really qualify as peach fuzz?


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I don't get notified of your response to my post unless you QUOTE my post.

Please only quote a small portion of the post so it doesn't clutter up the thread. 

 

How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#43 WishClean

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:22 PM

I was curious, was your hirsutism facial hair always dark? Do you get blonde hairs that are too long to really qualify as peach fuzz?

I always had some blonde peach fuzz all over my face, but I also had dark hair. I'm mediterranean so I grew up around friends and relatives who had some form of hirsutism, and doctors always blamed it on genetics. I also had some laser hair treatments on my sideburns (those were dark) and after that I think the heat from the laser triggered dormant hair follicles in other parts of my face because I started noticing that my peach fuzz was getting darker. At the same time as the laser treatments, though, I was also taking vitex and I think that both played a part in exacerbating hirsutism. 

This summer, after another series of unsuccessful laser treatments, I noticed more dark hair on my chin, sides of face, and neck. It was so embarrassing, I felt like I was growing a beard. That was probably due to the laser, since I wasn't taking anything hormonal. Within a week of taking inositol, I noticed that the hair was less dense, and now it's even more so but not completely gone. I think once you have hirsutism, it never goes away completely. My mom was lucky with electrolysis, but me and my sister are still struggling with it. Interestingly, my sister's hirsutism also increased after laser hair removal, and her hair was coarser and more noticeable. 

Did you have hirsutism or other signs of androgen excess before you went on spiro? 


Supplements: inositol, DIM, digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: Low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials... (although I have been slacking lately)

** Find the cause, find the cure **

 


#44 WishClean

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:01 PM

UPDATE: I went to the doctor today. She thinks I have systemic inflammation, which is what may have caused leaky gut/ candida. She gave me a diet to follow for 3 weeks (will post in the holistic forum). Yesterday I had some ice cream, and a few days ago a cookie, and my face swelled up and was still swollen today. She said that's not acne, it's an allergic reaction, and that I need to address both issues. She told me to go back on glutathione and follow a specific diet until the lab results come in. 

 

She also thinks I'm estrogen dominant, and that I need to find something to complement the inositol since that is helping with androgens and progesterone.

I was a bit disappointed that my insurance couldn't cover saliva testing, so she had to just draw blood instead. The only reason I agreed was because it's the 1st day of my period and if I do have estrogen dominance it will show up in the results because I picked a day when I was very hormonal. 

The doctor recommended myomin for estrogen dominance, which I might consider once I get the lab results. Has anyone heard of myomin??? Some women take it on the soulcysters forum, but I haven't had time to research it yet. This is what I found:

 

 

 

Each 2 capsules of Myomin contain:
Aralia dasyphyllia Mig. 200 mg
Cucuma zedoria 200 mg
Cyperus rotundus 200 mg
Smilax glabra Roxb. 200 mg

According to the manufacturer: "Myomin, a Chinese herbal formula, is a natural aromatase inhibitor. Aromatase converts androgens into estrogen. My inhibiting this effect less estrogen becomes produced. In one study of 60 females estradiol levels decreased from 74 pg/ml to 38 pg/ml after 10 days. Myomin also competes with estradiol at the cellular estrogen receptor. It also increases interferon, Il-2 and TNFa."

From Dr Chi's website:

 

Myomin has three functions

  • It inhibits the aromatase enzyme, effectively reducing estradiol levels by preventing the conversion of androgens to estrone and estradiol. This allows testosterone and estriol (the good estrogen) to accumulate. Aromatase inhibition has become a worthwhile target in many estrogen-dominant disorders
  • It competes with estradiol at the estrogen receptors. This function is particularly effective in cases where estrogen receptors are fully stimulated (e.g. after HRT). Competing with estradiol prevents estradiol from binding to receptors. As a result, proliferation of cells is avoided and abnormal growth inhibited.
  • In increase interferon (IFN) and interleukin-2 (IL-2). IL-2 induces the proliferation of immune cells, enhancing the body's ability to kill tumor cells. IFN stimulates natural killer cells and is active against tumors.

It is worth noting that, in the Chang Hai Hospital studies show that approximately 1% of the subjects taking Myomin experienced side effects such as nausea and bloating. These symptoms abate when Myomin dosage is reduced or when it is taken with meals


Edited by WishClean, 20 November 2013 - 09:17 PM.

Supplements: inositol, DIM, digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: Low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials... (although I have been slacking lately)

** Find the cause, find the cure **

 


#45 Cheriee

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 01:26 AM

Hey Wishclean, i was wondering what your progress is like with inositol? Mine came in the mail today! And i took 1/4 teaspoon of it with a smoothie i made.

 

So far, Vitex and Saw palmetto have not really been doing any much with my skin. I am thinking of getting off vitex because i think its making me break out even more. However i'm wondering, when you got off vitex did you break out even more? Im a little bit scared because thats the last thing i need right now :/ If inositol works i really wanna get off saw palmetto too. My stomach is always uneasy, not too an unbearable point but just becuase i keep incorporating all these things into my body.

 

Thanks



#46 jlcampi

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 03:29 PM

UPDATE: I went to the doctor today. She thinks I have systemic inflammation, which is what may have caused leaky gut/ candida. She gave me a diet to follow for 3 weeks (will post in the holistic forum). Yesterday I had some ice cream, and a few days ago a cookie, and my face swelled up and was still swollen today. She said that's not acne, it's an allergic reaction, and that I need to address both issues. She told me to go back on glutathione and follow a specific diet until the lab results come in. 

 

She also thinks I'm estrogen dominant, and that I need to find something to complement the inositol since that is helping with androgens and progesterone.

I was a bit disappointed that my insurance couldn't cover saliva testing, so she had to just draw blood instead. The only reason I agreed was because it's the 1st day of my period and if I do have estrogen dominance it will show up in the results because I picked a day when I was very hormonal. 

The doctor recommended myomin for estrogen dominance, which I might consider once I get the lab results. Has anyone heard of myomin??? Some women take it on the soulcysters forum, but I haven't had time to research it yet. This is what I found:

 

 

 

Each 2 capsules of Myomin contain:
Aralia dasyphyllia Mig. 200 mg
Cucuma zedoria 200 mg
Cyperus rotundus 200 mg
Smilax glabra Roxb. 200 mg

According to the manufacturer: "Myomin, a Chinese herbal formula, is a natural aromatase inhibitor. Aromatase converts androgens into estrogen. My inhibiting this effect less estrogen becomes produced. In one study of 60 females estradiol levels decreased from 74 pg/ml to 38 pg/ml after 10 days. Myomin also competes with estradiol at the cellular estrogen receptor. It also increases interferon, Il-2 and TNFa."

From Dr Chi's website:

 

Myomin has three functions

  • It inhibits the aromatase enzyme, effectively reducing estradiol levels by preventing the conversion of androgens to estrone and estradiol. This allows testosterone and estriol (the good estrogen) to accumulate. Aromatase inhibition has become a worthwhile target in many estrogen-dominant disorders
  • It competes with estradiol at the estrogen receptors. This function is particularly effective in cases where estrogen receptors are fully stimulated (e.g. after HRT). Competing with estradiol prevents estradiol from binding to receptors. As a result, proliferation of cells is avoided and abnormal growth inhibited.
  • In increase interferon (IFN) and interleukin-2 (IL-2). IL-2 induces the proliferation of immune cells, enhancing the body's ability to kill tumor cells. IFN stimulates natural killer cells and is active against tumors.

It is worth noting that, in the Chang Hai Hospital studies show that approximately 1% of the subjects taking Myomin experienced side effects such as nausea and bloating. These symptoms abate when Myomin dosage is reduced or when it is taken with meals

Hi Wishclean,

 

A few quick comments on Myomin.  If it's an aromatase inhibitor, then that means that testosterone will be inhibited from converting to estradiol.  The other direction in the metabolic pathway is toward DHT.  So, an aromatase inhibitor will decrease estrogen, increase androgens (DHT) and potentate the effectiveness of androgens by lowering SHBG.

 

Oddly you seem to have the opposite response.



#47 WishClean

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:27 PM

Hi cheriee,

I'm still taking inositol! I actually stopped for a few days because I was going to take some blood tests, and my skin got worse and I also got a few stray chin hairs. So it's definitely working, but I need to increase the dose because my testosterone is on the high end of the "normal" range and might be too high for me. 

I will also be taking chiro inositol, I just got it in the mail today and can't wait to try it. It's supposed to be stronger than myo inositol and it works faster, but it's better to always go for the cheaper option first to see if it works for you. Inositol works better on an empty stomach...I usually just take it with water right after I wake up, and also in between meals. Try to take most of it in the morning, then wait at least 30 mins before eating. Also try to take it once more in the afternoon to make sure it stays in your system because it's water soluble. 

Do you have PCOS? 

Vitex cleared me steadily, so I don't think it's one of those things where it gets worse before it gets better, at least in my case. But when I got off it my hormones were off balance again and the acne came back full force unfortunately. I'm hoping inositol will be enough for me because supplements like this one are much safer than herbs in the long run. 

Hey Wishclean, i was wondering what your progress is like with inositol? Mine came in the mail today! And i took 1/4 teaspoon of it with a smoothie i made.

 

So far, Vitex and Saw palmetto have not really been doing any much with my skin. I am thinking of getting off vitex because i think its making me break out even more. However i'm wondering, when you got off vitex did you break out even more? Im a little bit scared because thats the last thing i need right now :/ If inositol works i really wanna get off saw palmetto too. My stomach is always uneasy, not too an unbearable point but just becuase i keep incorporating all these things into my body.

 

Thanks

 

Hi jlcampi,

Isn't that how vitex is supposed to work as well? I'm not sure why I got more facial and body hair on vitex, why do you think that is? Most women say it reduces their testosterone, not the other way round. 

I got my lab results today.. they didn't even test for SHBG! Testosterone was 35, so in the higher end of normal (2-45), DHEA sulfate was 205 (40-325 range), progesterone 0.9 on day 2 of my cycle, and estradiol (I'm guessing E1 or E2, or total? ) is 48, so it's actually on the low end of normal. But they only measured 1 type of estradiol. 

The doctor's suggestions were to start using progesterone cream or start the myomin or go back to vitex, or try DIM. But she said if inositol is working I should just up the dose and stick with it and hopefully I won't need anything else. She wasn't that helpful in terms of telling me which route she thinks it's the best. She even mentioned spironolactone but I have low blood pressure and anyway I wouldn't take it because I hate taking drugs long term. She also wanted me to start retin-A, but my skin is so sensitive and I can't bare to go through another "it gets worse before better" phase. 

Hi Wishclean,

 

A few quick comments on Myomin.  If it's an aromatase inhibitor, then that means that testosterone will be inhibited from converting to estradiol.  The other direction in the metabolic pathway is toward DHT.  So, an aromatase inhibitor will decrease estrogen, increase androgens (DHT) and potentate the effectiveness of androgens by lowering SHBG.

 

Oddly you seem to have the opposite response.


Edited by WishClean, 02 December 2013 - 09:37 PM.

Supplements: inositol, DIM, digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: Low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials... (although I have been slacking lately)

** Find the cause, find the cure **

 


#48 jlcampi

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:31 AM

Hi Wishclean,

I'm not familiar with Vitex other than what very limited information I've read here. There is only one thing that causes body/facial hair growth and that is DHT. The effects of androgens will be amplified by lowering opposing hormones. For example using an aromatase inhibitor or decreasing cortisol.

I'm assuming that you listed total testosterone? Could you include the units with each analyte tested?

For example, optimal Total Testosterone in Women is:
35 ng/mL but the lab could also report in other units such as pg/mL and others.

Estradiol is E2, Estrone is E1.
E1 is useful in determining if you have pcos. It's probable if lh>fsh and E1>E2 on day 21.

I can't comment on estradiol or progesterone other than to say they are both low as expected this time of the month.

Most female testing is standarized to day 13 or 21 to catch ovulation and the progesterone peak. Optimal day is 21.

If you have low blood pressure then it's possible you have a cortisol/aldosterone deficiency. You have mentioned stress in the past. Excessive, chronic stress can weaken the adrenal system, setting you up for inflammation among other things.

Have you had your 8 am cortisol checked?
How about sodium?

The reason your doc didn't suggest a particular approach is most likely because she doesn't know where to go. My battery is about dead so I will stop here.

#49 WishClean

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 02:25 PM

I'm still not sure why vitex caused increased hair growth. Theoretically speaking, it should reduce androgens/ DHT. My guess is that, by adjusting the progesterone: estrogen ratio (and inevitably reducing estrogen), it comparatively produced a higher amount of androgens in my body. BUT, the strange thing was that I was manifesting symptoms of high androgens (some facial & body hair, some hair loss on head, high libido) and yet my skin was clear....which indicates to me that I have more of an issue with prog/ estrogen when it comes to acne. DHT blockers like androcur, saw palmetto, and spearmint tea were only able to slightly address the hair growth, not the acne.

Anyway, the figures I posted were all they gave me. Very useless, I was disappointed but doctors don't like patients telling them how to do their job. I'm going to stick with inositol at a higher dosage and see if all the issues resolve. The dr basically gave me too many suggestions at this point...I don't even know if it's worth getting the progesterone cream prescription filled.

Hi Wishclean,

I'm not familiar with Vitex other than what very limited information I've read here. There is only one thing that causes body/facial hair growth and that is DHT. The effects of androgens will be amplified by lowering opposing hormones. For example using an aromatase inhibitor or decreasing cortisol.

I'm assuming that you listed total testosterone? Could you include the units with each analyte tested?

For example, optimal Total Testosterone in Women is:
35 ng/mL but the lab could also report in other units such as pg/mL and others.

Estradiol is E2, Estrone is E1.
E1 is useful in determining if you have pcos. It's probable if lh>fsh and E1>E2 on day 21.

I can't comment on estradiol or progesterone other than to say they are both low as expected this time of the month.

Most female testing is standarized to day 13 or 21 to catch ovulation and the progesterone peak. Optimal day is 21.

If you have low blood pressure then it's possible you have a cortisol/aldosterone deficiency. You have mentioned stress in the past. Excessive, chronic stress can weaken the adrenal system, setting you up for inflammation among other things.

Have you had your 8 am cortisol checked?
How about sodium?

The reason your doc didn't suggest a particular approach is most likely because she doesn't know where to go. My battery is about dead so I will stop here.


Supplements: inositol, DIM, digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: Low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials... (although I have been slacking lately)

** Find the cause, find the cure **

 


#50 brenmc

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:15 PM

I likely won't have a chance to reply, I'll be away for week, but I just wanted to say that I lowered my dose of NPC to a half teaspoon every second day because I don't think it was improving my acne. Sticking with the spiro and some vitamins as well as trying to manage my insulin. I'll update when I'm back.

I'm still not sure why vitex caused increased hair growth. Theoretically speaking, it should reduce androgens/ DHT. My guess is that, by adjusting the progesterone: estrogen ratio (and inevitably reducing estrogen), it comparatively produced a higher amount of androgens in my body. BUT, the strange thing was that I was manifesting symptoms of high androgens (some facial & body hair, some hair loss on head, high libido) and yet my skin was clear....which indicates to me that I have more of an issue with prog/ estrogen when it comes to acne. DHT blockers like androcur, saw palmetto, and spearmint tea were only able to slightly address the hair growth, not the acne.

Anyway, the figures I posted were all they gave me. Very useless, I was disappointed but doctors don't like patients telling them how to do their job. I'm going to stick with inositol at a higher dosage and see if all the issues resolve. The dr basically gave me too many suggestions at this point...I don't even know if it's worth getting the progesterone cream prescription filled.

Hi Wishclean,

I'm not familiar with Vitex other than what very limited information I've read here. There is only one thing that causes body/facial hair growth and that is DHT. The effects of androgens will be amplified by lowering opposing hormones. For example using an aromatase inhibitor or decreasing cortisol.

I'm assuming that you listed total testosterone? Could you include the units with each analyte tested?

For example, optimal Total Testosterone in Women is:
35 ng/mL but the lab could also report in other units such as pg/mL and others.

Estradiol is E2, Estrone is E1.
E1 is useful in determining if you have pcos. It's probable if lh>fsh and E1>E2 on day 21.

I can't comment on estradiol or progesterone other than to say they are both low as expected this time of the month.

Most female testing is standarized to day 13 or 21 to catch ovulation and the progesterone peak. Optimal day is 21.

If you have low blood pressure then it's possible you have a cortisol/aldosterone deficiency. You have mentioned stress in the past. Excessive, chronic stress can weaken the adrenal system, setting you up for inflammation among other things.

Have you had your 8 am cortisol checked?
How about sodium?

The reason your doc didn't suggest a particular approach is most likely because she doesn't know where to go. My battery is about dead so I will stop here.



#51 jlcampi

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:26 PM

I'm still not sure why vitex caused increased hair growth. Theoretically speaking, it should reduce androgens/ DHT. My guess is that, by adjusting the progesterone: estrogen ratio (and inevitably reducing estrogen), it comparatively produced a higher amount of androgens in my body. BUT, the strange thing was that I was manifesting symptoms of high androgens (some facial & body hair, some hair loss on head, high libido) and yet my skin was clear....which indicates to me that I have more of an issue with prog/ estrogen when it comes to acne. DHT blockers like androcur, saw palmetto, and spearmint tea were only able to slightly address the hair growth, not the acne.

Anyway, the figures I posted were all they gave me. Very useless, I was disappointed but doctors don't like patients telling them how to do their job. I'm going to stick with inositol at a higher dosage and see if all the issues resolve. The dr basically gave me too many suggestions at this point...I don't even know if it's worth getting the progesterone cream prescription filled.

Hi Wishclean,

I'm not familiar with Vitex other than what very limited information I've read here. There is only one thing that causes body/facial hair growth and that is DHT. The effects of androgens will be amplified by lowering opposing hormones. For example using an aromatase inhibitor or decreasing cortisol.

I'm assuming that you listed total testosterone? Could you include the units with each analyte tested?

For example, optimal Total Testosterone in Women is:
35 ng/mL but the lab could also report in other units such as pg/mL and others.

Estradiol is E2, Estrone is E1.
E1 is useful in determining if you have pcos. It's probable if lh>fsh and E1>E2 on day 21.

I can't comment on estradiol or progesterone other than to say they are both low as expected this time of the month.

Most female testing is standarized to day 13 or 21 to catch ovulation and the progesterone peak. Optimal day is 21.

If you have low blood pressure then it's possible you have a cortisol/aldosterone deficiency. You have mentioned stress in the past. Excessive, chronic stress can weaken the adrenal system, setting you up for inflammation among other things.

Have you had your 8 am cortisol checked?
How about sodium?

The reason your doc didn't suggest a particular approach is most likely because she doesn't know where to go. My battery is about dead so I will stop here.

I looked it up earlier.  Vitex has some aromatase activity.  So, it reduces conversion of testosterone to estradiol and pushes the reaction toward dht.  It makes sense that you might have hair growth with this supplement.

 

Men frequently use the more potent aromatase inhibitors like Ariimidex when supplementing with testosterone for hormone replacement therapy.  It dramatically reduces conversion to estradiol.  Testosterone must be metabolized, so the 5 alpha reductase enzyme picks up the slack and converts a larger share of testosterone to DHT.  

 

SHBG is direcltly related to estradiol concentration.  When the aromatase inhibitors are used and the reaction of testosterone is pushed toward DHT, SHBG is reduced.  SHBG binds testosterone and other sex hormones.  When this substance decreases it frees up more of the active hormone.  In this case testosterone is potentiated.

 

Keep in mind though that Estradiol stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system and is also the most potent simulator of libido in both men and women (androgens must also be at a sufficient level).  Tank estradiol in both men and women and you will dramatically reduce your energy levels and libido.

 

This is one of the reasons you take progesterone at night.  It neutralizes estradiol and makes you feel tired and relaxed.  Estradiol has the opposite effect.


Edited by jlcampi, 03 December 2013 - 05:37 PM.


#52 WishClean

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:01 PM

Hmm....so the progesterone cream is a good idea you think? I'm hoping inositol can do both, lower androgens (which it already has judging by the reduction of facial and body hair) and boost progesterone so I won't need to take anything else. It also manages insulin quite well. 

I looked it up earlier.  Vitex has some aromatase activity.  So, it reduces conversion of testosterone to estradiol and pushes the reaction toward dht.  It makes sense that you might have hair growth with this supplement.

 

Men frequently use the more potent aromatase inhibitors like Ariimidex when supplementing with testosterone for hormone replacement therapy.  It dramatically reduces conversion to estradiol.  Testosterone must be metabolized, so the 5 alpha reductase enzyme picks up the slack and converts a larger share of testosterone to DHT.  

 

SHBG is direcltly related to estradiol concentration.  When the aromatase inhibitors are used and the reaction of testosterone is pushed toward DHT, SHBG is reduced.  SHBG binds testosterone and other sex hormones.  When this substance decreases it frees up more of the active hormone.  In this case testosterone is potentiated.

 

Keep in mind though that Estradiol stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system and is also the most potent simulator of libido in both men and women (androgens must also be at a sufficient level).  Tank estradiol in both men and women and you will dramatically reduce your energy levels and libido.

 

This is one of the reasons you take progesterone at night.  It neutralizes estradiol and makes you feel tired and relaxed.  Estradiol has the opposite effect.


Supplements: inositol, DIM, digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: Low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials... (although I have been slacking lately)

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#53 jlcampi

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 08:12 AM

Hmm....so the progesterone cream is a good idea you think? I'm hoping inositol can do both, lower androgens (which it already has judging by the reduction of facial and body hair) and boost progesterone so I won't need to take anything else. It also manages insulin quite well. 

I looked it up earlier.  Vitex has some aromatase activity.  So, it reduces conversion of testosterone to estradiol and pushes the reaction toward dht.  It makes sense that you might have hair growth with this supplement.
 
Men frequently use the more potent aromatase inhibitors like Ariimidex when supplementing with testosterone for hormone replacement therapy.  It dramatically reduces conversion to estradiol.  Testosterone must be metabolized, so the 5 alpha reductase enzyme picks up the slack and converts a larger share of testosterone to DHT.  
 
SHBG is direcltly related to estradiol concentration.  When the aromatase inhibitors are used and the reaction of testosterone is pushed toward DHT, SHBG is reduced.  SHBG binds testosterone and other sex hormones.  When this substance decreases it frees up more of the active hormone.  In this case testosterone is potentiated.
 
Keep in mind though that Estradiol stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system and is also the most potent simulator of libido in both men and women (androgens must also be at a sufficient level).  Tank estradiol in both men and women and you will dramatically reduce your energy levels and libido.
 
This is one of the reasons you take progesterone at night.  It neutralizes estradiol and makes you feel tired and relaxed.  Estradiol has the opposite effect.


My famialiarity with inositol is it's anxiolytic properties. I looked at a few studies and it appears that in endocrine disorders, inositol improves insulin resistence. I can't independently confirm this, however the claim is that in PCOS patients with hyperinsulimia, LH is reduced when insulin levels drop. If this is the case in those without PCOS that simply have elevated insulin, then the effects could ameliorate or reduce both causes of acne - elecated free testosterone and elevated insulin.

In terms of the progesterone, we need a bit more information. If you had your hormone levels checked at day 21 we would have enough information to know if progesterone is deficient. I know it's annoying to hear this after you just had your levels checked.

#54 hearts

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:20 PM

WishClean, do you know anything about the combo of inositol and choline? I see that combo frequently. I am strongly considering adding inositol very soon for my hair, as I'm still not getting my normal growth back since spiro.
 

Another question... you said you were going to up your dose of inositol to see if that would be all you need. Is there an amount that is toxic/too much?

Sorry to hear that the panels weren't as thorough as you had hoped. I dislike doctors. About retin-a... my skin HATED it. I broke out horribly, which I was warned about, but it never seemed to get better while using it. Did topicals even help you before? That seems like a dumb suggestion by them. Actually most of the advice seemed stupid. You went there for a professional opinion, not a list of options that you already knew about! :(


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#55 WishClean

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 05:29 PM

WishClean, do you know anything about the combo of inositol and choline? I see that combo frequently. I am strongly considering adding inositol very soon for my hair, as I'm still not getting my normal growth back since spiro.
 

Another question... you said you were going to up your dose of inositol to see if that would be all you need. Is there an amount that is toxic/too much?

Sorry to hear that the panels weren't as thorough as you had hoped. I dislike doctors. About retin-a... my skin HATED it. I broke out horribly, which I was warned about, but it never seemed to get better while using it. Did topicals even help you before? That seems like a dumb suggestion by them. Actually most of the advice seemed stupid. You went there for a professional opinion, not a list of options that you already knew about! sad.png

 

Yeah, actually I read that without choline, inositol doesn't help that much with hair loss on its own. It helps with hirsutism, but not hair loss. I'm just nervous about adding anything else right now because my skin has been doing well. The only thing I increased is the amount of inositol, and I also added d-chiro-inositol along with myo-inositol and I like it so far. In addition to myo-inositol & choline, chiro is supposed to be more effective when combined with manganese. The company website I purchased the chiro from (chiral balance - good reviews overall!) advices to take manganese with it too if possible. At first I thought it might be a ploy to sell manganese supplements, but the don't even sell those, so I guess it's valid. I drink vitamin water from time to time and it has manganese so hopefully that will do something. 

You would have to take A LOT of inositol for it to be toxic, and even then the risk of toxicity is very low because it's water soluble and gets flushed out of your system easily. That's why if you don't take it for a few days it loses its effectiveness....it's one of those things you have to take long term because it doesn't get stored in your liver like vitamin A or D. My doctor told me to first try a higher dose of inositol, but she wants to check my inositol levels in 1 year to make sure I don't overdo it... I had no idea they can check inositol levels. But anyway, people with ADD, anxiety, and other disorders take high amounts (like, 10x the PCOS dose) as a therapeutic dose and the only side effects that happen are upset stomach and diarrhea. The only exception is people with bipolar disorder - if they take too much, it can worsen bipolar symptoms. But too much for that would be close to 20g, you only need about 1-2g. I haven't even worked my way up to 2g of myo, but now that I added the chiro I just take both. 

Yeah, doctors can be so clueless. She didn't even know about inositol and PCOS until I told her, and then she looked it up and had more information that I already knew. I also told my chiropractor about it because my numbness has gone away most of the time, and now he is ordering inositol supplements to sell at his office. I wish I could make a profit from it hehe 

Anyway, let me know how you get on with it. You should just start with inositol for a week or so to see if it makes a difference on its own, and then add choline. Does choline have any side effects?


Supplements: inositol, DIM, digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: Low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials... (although I have been slacking lately)

** Find the cause, find the cure **

 


#56 hearts

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 05:50 PM

Yeah, actually I read that without choline, inositol doesn't help that much with hair loss on its own. It helps with hirsutism, but not hair loss. I'm just nervous about adding anything else right now because my skin has been doing well. The only thing I increased is the amount of inositol, and I also added d-chiro-inositol along with myo-inositol and I like it so far. In addition to myo-inositol & choline, chiro is supposed to be more effective when combined with manganese. The company website I purchased the chiro from (chiral balance - good reviews overall!) advices to take manganese with it too if possible. At first I thought it might be a ploy to sell manganese supplements, but the don't even sell those, so I guess it's valid. I drink vitamin water from time to time and it has manganese so hopefully that will do something. 

You would have to take A LOT of inositol for it to be toxic, and even then the risk of toxicity is very low because it's water soluble and gets flushed out of your system easily. That's why if you don't take it for a few days it loses its effectiveness....it's one of those things you have to take long term because it doesn't get stored in your liver like vitamin A or D. My doctor told me to first try a higher dose of inositol, but she wants to check my inositol levels in 1 year to make sure I don't overdo it... I had no idea they can check inositol levels. But anyway, people with ADD, anxiety, and other disorders take high amounts (like, 10x the PCOS dose) as a therapeutic dose and the only side effects that happen are upset stomach and diarrhea. The only exception is people with bipolar disorder - if they take too much, it can worsen bipolar symptoms. But too much for that would be close to 20g, you only need about 1-2g. I haven't even worked my way up to 2g of myo, but now that I added the chiro I just take both. 

Yeah, doctors can be so clueless. She didn't even know about inositol and PCOS until I told her, and then she looked it up and had more information that I already knew. I also told my chiropractor about it because my numbness has gone away most of the time, and now he is ordering inositol supplements to sell at his office. I wish I could make a profit from it hehe 

Anyway, let me know how you get on with it. You should just start with inositol for a week or so to see if it makes a difference on its own, and then add choline. Does choline have any side effects?

 

Thanks, WishClean! You should get money from their sales, since you're becoming a inositol expert and informing them! (:

I'm so clueless about what to do with my hair. I am beginning to wonder if I just had a more "masculine" amount of hair before spiro, and it thinned out to be more "feminine." However, I miss the crazy thickness that I had before. I know hair takes a long time to grow, but I've been off spiro for almost two years I think.

 

I don't know much about choline or inositol, aside from what you have told me. I'll try to look into it some more. Thanks again for the info!


living life as happy and natural as I can! ♡ ☮ ❀ ॐ ☼

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[clear]: fish oil, multi vitamins & minerals + extra d3, b-complex, l-cysteine, natural progesterone cream


#57 WishClean

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 06:27 PM

Yeah, actually I read that without choline, inositol doesn't help that much with hair loss on its own. It helps with hirsutism, but not hair loss. I'm just nervous about adding anything else right now because my skin has been doing well. The only thing I increased is the amount of inositol, and I also added d-chiro-inositol along with myo-inositol and I like it so far. In addition to myo-inositol & choline, chiro is supposed to be more effective when combined with manganese. The company website I purchased the chiro from (chiral balance - good reviews overall!) advices to take manganese with it too if possible. At first I thought it might be a ploy to sell manganese supplements, but the don't even sell those, so I guess it's valid. I drink vitamin water from time to time and it has manganese so hopefully that will do something. 

You would have to take A LOT of inositol for it to be toxic, and even then the risk of toxicity is very low because it's water soluble and gets flushed out of your system easily. That's why if you don't take it for a few days it loses its effectiveness....it's one of those things you have to take long term because it doesn't get stored in your liver like vitamin A or D. My doctor told me to first try a higher dose of inositol, but she wants to check my inositol levels in 1 year to make sure I don't overdo it... I had no idea they can check inositol levels. But anyway, people with ADD, anxiety, and other disorders take high amounts (like, 10x the PCOS dose) as a therapeutic dose and the only side effects that happen are upset stomach and diarrhea. The only exception is people with bipolar disorder - if they take too much, it can worsen bipolar symptoms. But too much for that would be close to 20g, you only need about 1-2g. I haven't even worked my way up to 2g of myo, but now that I added the chiro I just take both. 

Yeah, doctors can be so clueless. She didn't even know about inositol and PCOS until I told her, and then she looked it up and had more information that I already knew. I also told my chiropractor about it because my numbness has gone away most of the time, and now he is ordering inositol supplements to sell at his office. I wish I could make a profit from it hehe 

Anyway, let me know how you get on with it. You should just start with inositol for a week or so to see if it makes a difference on its own, and then add choline. Does choline have any side effects?

 

Thanks, WishClean! You should get money from their sales, since you're becoming a inositol expert and informing them! (:

I'm so clueless about what to do with my hair. I am beginning to wonder if I just had a more "masculine" amount of hair before spiro, and it thinned out to be more "feminine." However, I miss the crazy thickness that I had before. I know hair takes a long time to grow, but I've been off spiro for almost two years I think.

 

I don't know much about choline or inositol, aside from what you have told me. I'll try to look into it some more. Thanks again for the info!

It's weird that some women lose more hair on spiro, which is supposed to help with hair growth. I guess everyone's body reacts differently. Vitex is supposed to help with hair growth too, but I started shedding more once I stopped it....maybe it's the change in hormones that causes the hair loss or intensifies it? Also, stress can cause hair shedding, are you under a lot of stress?

I took some pics of my hairline...the first one (striped shirt) I took on Nov. 29, the other one just now. I upped my inositol intake in the meantime, and added chiro inositol. Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I noticed some baby hairs growing. Is yours as bad as mine?

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Supplements: inositol, DIM, digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: Low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials... (although I have been slacking lately)

** Find the cause, find the cure **

 


#58 hearts

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:09 AM

It's weird that some women lose more hair on spiro, which is supposed to help with hair growth. I guess everyone's body reacts differently. Vitex is supposed to help with hair growth too, but I started shedding more once I stopped it....maybe it's the change in hormones that causes the hair loss or intensifies it? Also, stress can cause hair shedding, are you under a lot of stress?

I took some pics of my hairline...the first one (striped shirt) I took on Nov. 29, the other one just now. I upped my inositol intake in the meantime, and added chiro inositol. Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I noticed some baby hairs growing. Is yours as bad as mine?

 

Yeah, it is weird... it's kinda frustrating because I can't search into anything related to combating hair shed/loss from antiandrogens. Almost all info online recommends antiandrogens for it. The only things I can find is maybe trying to lower DHT, or taking inositol or something.

 

I'm sure it's the hormonal changes that caused it initially. I experienced the big shed at around the year 1 mark of taking spiro. I've never had shedding like that in my life, even with high stress, and I wasn't stressed at the time. Vitex scares me, which is why I chose progesterone over it. I remember reading all sorts of potential side effects, where progesterone has none usually. I'd rather try vitamins or minerals at this point, since my hormones are doing well... something less drastic, haha! Which is why I'm considering inositol.

 

My hairline is pretty good... it's more like it thinned out pretty evenly all over my head. It feels like 2/3 or so of what it was pre-spiro. I think I do see more baby hairs in your second photo! It's kind of difficult to tell since it's different lighting, though.

 

By the way, your skin looks amazing in those photos! (: (: Keep us updated on how inositol is going!


Edited by hearts, 05 December 2013 - 11:14 AM.

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#59 WishClean

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 06:49 PM

Yeah, it is weird... it's kinda frustrating because I can't search into anything related to combating hair shed/loss from antiandrogens. Almost all info online recommends antiandrogens for it. The only things I can find is maybe trying to lower DHT, or taking inositol or something.

 

I'm sure it's the hormonal changes that caused it initially. I experienced the big shed at around the year 1 mark of taking spiro. I've never had shedding like that in my life, even with high stress, and I wasn't stressed at the time. Vitex scares me, which is why I chose progesterone over it. I remember reading all sorts of potential side effects, where progesterone has none usually. I'd rather try vitamins or minerals at this point, since my hormones are doing well... something less drastic, haha! Which is why I'm considering inositol.

 

My hairline is pretty good... it's more like it thinned out pretty evenly all over my head. It feels like 2/3 or so of what it was pre-spiro. I think I do see more baby hairs in your second photo! It's kind of difficult to tell since it's different lighting, though.

 

By the way, your skin looks amazing in those photos! (: (: Keep us updated on how inositol is going!

I guess some people's bodies react differently to anti androgens...it's weird that they have the opposite effect, which makes me think the hormonal imbalance is more complex in the first place and can't simply be fixed with antiandrogens. Maybe because your issue (and probably also mine) was more estrogen dominance and low progesterone....I mean, if you gained weight on spiro and lost hair, DHT blockers were obviously not the way to go. I lost some hair when I was drinking a ton of spearmint tea each day to block DHT. So annoying- we try to fix one issue and another issue is caused! It'sad that doctors haven't a clue when it comes to hormones, they just follow standardized treatments and hope for the best. 

Yeah, herbs are more risky usually than supplements...that's why I'm hesitant to try anything else at the moment. 

I did a quick search for choline and read that there are some links with prostate cancer, but I'm not sure if it's legit information. DIM protects against cancer, but choline is questionable...I'm guessing only at very high doses though. They actually sell inositol with choline. Manganese +choline might also work for hair, but I haven't researched that yet. 

Has biotin ever helped you?? It's not the best for acne prone people, but it's in most of the skin & hair supplements. 

I will update about d-chiro inositol...so far, I ovulated and only got 1 pimple, possibly because I picked at a clogged pore. And I reduced the myo dosage to see if DCI would work faster, and so far it's working I believe because it kept the ovulation breakout at bay. Too soon to tell about the hair though. 

I have a question about DIM....if it supposedly boosts free testosterone (e.g. in EstroBlock and bodybuilding supplements), how is it a DHT blocker?  I was wondering about that


Supplements: inositol, DIM, digestive enzymes [don't need them every day anymore, only on cheat days], herpanacine & vitamin C with rose hips [not every day], regular sun exposure for vitamin D3.

Lifestyle & Skin Care: Low histamine diet, avoiding unnecessary stress, balancing skin's PH (using Image Ormedics), using distilled/ filtered water to wash face, occasional high frequency facials... (although I have been slacking lately)

** Find the cause, find the cure **

 


#60 jlcampi

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:08 PM

Yeah, it is weird... it's kinda frustrating because I can't search into anything related to combating hair shed/loss from antiandrogens. Almost all info online recommends antiandrogens for it. The only things I can find is maybe trying to lower DHT, or taking inositol or something.
 
I'm sure it's the hormonal changes that caused it initially. I experienced the big shed at around the year 1 mark of taking spiro. I've never had shedding like that in my life, even with high stress, and I wasn't stressed at the time. Vitex scares me, which is why I chose progesterone over it. I remember reading all sorts of potential side effects, where progesterone has none usually. I'd rather try vitamins or minerals at this point, since my hormones are doing well... something less drastic, haha! Which is why I'm considering inositol.
 
My hairline is pretty good... it's more like it thinned out pretty evenly all over my head. It feels like 2/3 or so of what it was pre-spiro. I think I do see more baby hairs in your second photo! It's kind of difficult to tell since it's different lighting, though.
 
By the way, your skin looks amazing in those photos! (: (: Keep us updated on how inositol is going!

I guess some people's bodies react differently to anti androgens...it's weird that they have the opposite effect, which makes me think the hormonal imbalance is more complex in the first place and can't simply be fixed with antiandrogens. Maybe because your issue (and probably also mine) was more estrogen dominance and low progesterone....I mean, if you gained weight on spiro and lost hair, DHT blockers were obviously not the way to go. I lost some hair when I was drinking a ton of spearmint tea each day to block DHT. So annoying- we try to fix one issue and another issue is caused! It'sad that doctors haven't a clue when it comes to hormones, they just follow standardized treatments and hope for the best. 
Yeah, herbs are more risky usually than supplements...that's why I'm hesitant to try anything else at the moment. 
I did a quick search for choline and read that there are some links with prostate cancer, but I'm not sure if it's legit information. DIM protects against cancer, but choline is questionable...I'm guessing only at very high doses though. They actually sell inositol with choline. Manganese +choline might also work for hair, but I haven't researched that yet. 
Has biotin ever helped you?? It's not the best for acne prone people, but it's in most of the skin & hair supplements. 
I will update about d-chiro inositol...so far, I ovulated and only got 1 pimple, possibly because I picked at a clogged pore. And I reduced the myo dosage to see if DCI would work faster, and so far it's working I believe because it kept the ovulation breakout at bay. Too soon to tell about the hair though. 
I have a question about DIM....if it supposedly boosts free testosterone (e.g. in EstroBlock and bodybuilding supplements), how is it a DHT blocker?  I was wondering about that

Hi Wishclean.

I know all this seems very frustrating in terms of the seemingly conflicting symptoms you are experiencing. There are a few very talented and informed physicians that understand this clearly. Over the years I have read everything I can get that they publish.

Here is what's happening with your hair.

DHT causes an increase in body/facial hair and a loss of the hair on top of your head. There are probably millions of men that would love to hear what I am about to write. The cause of androgenic alopecia (loss of hair on your crown) is an inverted Testosterone/DHT ratio. In other words, those susceptible to hair loss have a higher concentration of DHT than Testosterone in the target cells. This can happen if there is an excess of the 5a reductase enzyme, testosterone deficiency or DHT excess.




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