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#161 WishClean

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:31 PM

Ok, I figured out why some people break out initially (and some not so initially) from DIM, and I think I'm on the right track with taking CDG at first to help the liver. I checked some old posts on here, and also read this, from a nutritionist on The Love Vitamin Website. It's about both Estroblock and DIM:

 

In order to effectively clear the “bad estrogen” from the body, a Phase II liver support is required such as the Liv-tox supplement. Phase II nutrients include amino acids such as cysteine and methionine, herbal remedies such as milk thistle.

And Phase III detoxification (as it’s now termed) needs to be supported through bowel clearance. So eating plenty of organic fruits and vegetable with the skin, exercising, pure water, having psyllium husk and slippery elm can aid with this.

Using Estroblock alone, ‘ramps’ up Phase I which can cause headaches and a re-circulation of toxins into the blood stream, if this is not supported by Phase II.

 

So basically if detoxification pathways are not working properly, then DIM/ Estroblock can do more harm than good. Hearts, you probably didn't have this problem since you didn't have an IB, but I'm guessing I might. I'm hoping CDG will be ok, and if I need DIM as well then I will take them together. But does anyone else know what other Phase III supplements can be used for bowel clearance? I'm trying to avoid herbs (like with Phase II, I don't want to take milk thistle due to an allergic reaction I had before). My multi has selenium, and I have another supplement with l-glutathione, but the less stuff I take the better.

 

I also have another question about DIM...I want to be certain it's for me before I start it,and I think my doctor will just tell me "try it and see" so she probably won't be much help in this department. I read that it enhances libido, but mine is already high most days of the month and I want to decrease it....does it mean that DIM might not be 100% right for me bc my testosterone might already be too high (free or not)? Sorry for all the qs. I want to be sure bc vitex cleared my skin but at a price (facial & body hair), so this time I will find a better combination of supplements to make sure all angles are covered.


Edited by WishClean, 19 November 2013 - 01:59 PM.


#162 Green Gables

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 05:36 PM

Ok, I figured out why some people break out initially (and some not so initially) from DIM, and I think I'm on the right track with taking CDG at first to help the liver. I checked some old posts on here, and also read this, from a nutritionist on The Love Vitamin Website. It's about both Estroblock and DIM:

 

In order to effectively clear the “bad estrogen” from the body, a Phase II liver support is required such as the Liv-tox supplement. Phase II nutrients include amino acids such as cysteine and methionine, herbal remedies such as milk thistle.

And Phase III detoxification (as it’s now termed) needs to be supported through bowel clearance. So eating plenty of organic fruits and vegetable with the skin, exercising, pure water, having psyllium husk and slippery elm can aid with this.

Using Estroblock alone, ‘ramps’ up Phase I which can cause headaches and a re-circulation of toxins into the blood stream, if this is not supported by Phase II.

 

So basically if detoxification pathways are not working properly, then DIM/ Estroblock can do more harm than good. Hearts, you probably didn't have this problem since you didn't have an IB, but I'm guessing I might. I'm hoping CDG will be ok, and if I need DIM as well then I will take them together. But does anyone else know what other Phase III supplements can be used for bowel clearance? I'm trying to avoid herbs (like with Phase II, I don't want to take milk thistle due to an allergic reaction I had before). My multi has selenium, and I have another supplement with l-glutathione, but the less stuff I take the better.

 

I also have another question about DIM...I want to be certain it's for me before I start it,and I think my doctor will just tell me "try it and see" so she probably won't be much help in this department. I read that it enhances libido, but mine is already high most days of the month and I want to decrease it....does it mean that DIM might not be 100% right for me bc my testosterone might already be too high (free or not)? Sorry for all the qs. I want to be sure bc vitex cleared my skin but at a price (facial & body hair), so this time I will find a better combination of supplements to make sure all angles are covered.

 

Sometimes I wonder if you just focused on liver health, you might not need any further hormone modification. 

 

Smoking causes a variety of adverse effects on organs that have no direct contact with the smoke itself such as the liver. It induces three major adverse effects on the liver: direct or indirect toxic effects, immunological effects and oncogenic effects. Smoking yields chemical substances with cytotoxic potential which increase necro-inflammation and fibrosis. In addition, smoking increases the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines (IL-1, IL-6 and TNF- alpha) that would be involved in liver cell injury. It contributes to the development of secondary polycythemia and in turn to increased red cell mass and turnover which might be a contributing factor to secondary iron overload disease promoting oxidative stress of hepatocytes. Increased red cell mass and turnover are associated with increased purine catabolism which promotes excessive production of uric acid. Smoking affects both cell-mediated and humoral immune responses by blocking lymphocyte proliferation and inducing apoptosis of lymphocytes. Smoking also increases serum and hepatic iron which induce oxidative stress and lipid peroxidation that lead to activation of stellate cells and development of fibrosis. Smoking yields chemicals with oncogenic potential that increase the risk of hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC) in patients with viral hepatitis and are independent of viral infection as well. Tobacco smoking has been associated with suppression of p53 (tumour suppressor gene). In addition, smoking causes suppression of T-cell responses and is associated with decreased surveillance for tumour cells. Moreover, it has been reported that heavy smoking affects the sustained virological response to interferon (IFN) therapy in hepatitis C patients which can be improved by repeated phlebotomy. Smoker's syndrome is a clinico-pathological condition where patients complain of episodes of facial flushing, warmth of the palms and soles of feet, throbbing headache, fullness in the head, dizziness, lethargy, prickling sensation, pruritus and arthralgia.


Edited by Green Gables, 19 November 2013 - 05:38 PM.


#163 WishClean

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:13 PM

Ok, I figured out why some people break out initially (and some not so initially) from DIM, and I think I'm on the right track with taking CDG at first to help the liver. I checked some old posts on here, and also read this, from a nutritionist on The Love Vitamin Website. It's about both Estroblock and DIM:

 

In order to effectively clear the “bad estrogen” from the body, a Phase II liver support is required such as the Liv-tox supplement. Phase II nutrients include amino acids such as cysteine and methionine, herbal remedies such as milk thistle.

And Phase III detoxification (as it’s now termed) needs to be supported through bowel clearance. So eating plenty of organic fruits and vegetable with the skin, exercising, pure water, having psyllium husk and slippery elm can aid with this.

Using Estroblock alone, ‘ramps’ up Phase I which can cause headaches and a re-circulation of toxins into the blood stream, if this is not supported by Phase II.

 

So basically if detoxification pathways are not working properly, then DIM/ Estroblock can do more harm than good. Hearts, you probably didn't have this problem since you didn't have an IB, but I'm guessing I might. I'm hoping CDG will be ok, and if I need DIM as well then I will take them together. But does anyone else know what other Phase III supplements can be used for bowel clearance? I'm trying to avoid herbs (like with Phase II, I don't want to take milk thistle due to an allergic reaction I had before). My multi has selenium, and I have another supplement with l-glutathione, but the less stuff I take the better.

 

I also have another question about DIM...I want to be certain it's for me before I start it,and I think my doctor will just tell me "try it and see" so she probably won't be much help in this department. I read that it enhances libido, but mine is already high most days of the month and I want to decrease it....does it mean that DIM might not be 100% right for me bc my testosterone might already be too high (free or not)? Sorry for all the qs. I want to be sure bc vitex cleared my skin but at a price (facial & body hair), so this time I will find a better combination of supplements to make sure all angles are covered.

 

Sometimes I wonder if you just focused on liver health, you might not need any further hormone modification. 

 

>>Smoking causes a variety of adverse effects on organs that have no direct contact with the smoke itself such as the liver. It induces three major adverse effects on the liver: direct or indirect toxic effects, immunological effects and oncogenic effects. Smoking yields chemical substances with cytotoxic potential which increase necro-inflammation and fibrosis. In addition, smoking increases the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines (IL-1, IL-6 and TNF- alpha) that would be involved in liver cell injury. It contributes to the development of secondary polycythemia and in turn to increased red cell mass and turnover which might be a contributing factor to secondary iron overload disease promoting oxidative stress of hepatocytes. Increased red cell mass and turnover are associated with increased purine catabolism which promotes excessive production of uric acid. Smoking affects both cell-mediated and humoral immune responses by blocking lymphocyte proliferation and inducing apoptosis of lymphocytes. Smoking also increases serum and hepatic iron which induce oxidative stress and lipid peroxidation that lead to activation of stellate cells and development of fibrosis. Smoking yields chemicals with oncogenic potential that increase the risk of hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC) in patients with viral hepatitis and are independent of viral infection as well. Tobacco smoking has been associated with suppression of p53 (tumour suppressor gene). In addition, smoking causes suppression of T-cell responses and is associated with decreased surveillance for tumour cells. Moreover, it has been reported that heavy smoking affects the sustained virological response to interferon (IFN) therapy in hepatitis C patients which can be improved by repeated phlebotomy. Smoker's syndrome is a clinico-pathological condition where patients complain of episodes of facial flushing, warmth of the palms and soles of feet, throbbing headache, fullness in the head, dizziness, lethargy, prickling sensation, pruritus and arthralgia.

 

I quit smoking - ironically, my skin is usually clearer when I smoke, but of course the texture is worse. It was a temporary fallback after having quit for 2 years, but yeah, I don't doubt that it probably caused issues for me health-wise.

For liver health, what can I do exactly? I can't take milk thistle...maybe NAC, like the naturopath recommended? I had success with l-glutathione but it stops working after a month. I can't do any type of extreme liver detox because my skin goes crazy - even with those herbal detox teas, I can't take them anymore.  Is there a way to test my liver health so I know for sure what issues I'm dealing with? 

An acupuncturist once told me that first I need to clear my gall bladder and then the liver for proper detoxification, is that true? When the acupuncturist did a gall bladder-clearing treatment, all hell broke loose on my face and I was using the bathroom every hour. I don't know why I'm so sensitive to these treatments, I used to be able to tolerate much more.  

EDIT: Apparently, NAC can raise histamines, so it's a no-go for me :((( I have samples of RadicalDefenze, that might help (glutathione, ALA, and some enzymes). Is there a way to actually confirm leaky gut or adrenal fatigue or whatever has caused me these issues this past year? I'm seeing my doc tomorrow, but she will probably ask me to do the detox diet she recommended first, which is too restrictive for me to do (plus, not good for anemia). Anyway, I don't want to take over this thread again...I'll update tomorrow on the inositol thread.


Edited by WishClean, 19 November 2013 - 09:32 PM.


#164 hearts

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:21 AM

Hey everyone! It's been a couple weeks since I've been on the forums (sorry!) but I just wanted to update you with some details. Since moving I have been busy nonstop getting the new place ready, and then the Thanksgiving holiday showed up and I was busy making a huge dinner.

 

Anyway, during all of the stress and activity, and on top of that, being newly unemployed with very little income... I have not been taking supplements like I did before moving. In fact, I have barely taken progesterone, no vitamin D, and almost half of the DIM I was taking.

 

Still totally clear. I was super worried about forgetting progesterone, that all my estrogen dominance symptoms would come raging back like they did when I stopped for even a day before. Not the case this time. I feel amazing just like when I was taking it daily.

 

I'm aware it has only been a couple weeks. I don't plan to stop my regimen by any means. I would like to cut down on DIM if only 1 pill a day keeps me clear instead of two, but I am not going to give up clear skin for it. I will however, stop using progesterone daily since I don't need it that often anymore. Instead I might try starting on day 12 or whatever. I read somewhere that you can lower your dose after a while if you're feeling better — I'll try to find that link again. I was planning on buying more vitamin D today, too. 

 

Anyway, it's good to know that in some cases your body can adjust to higher progesterone and you don't become quite so dependent on it. I'm still feeling great but I will try to continue to remain on a similar regimen, at least for now. (:


Edited by hearts, 03 December 2013 - 09:23 AM.


#165 brenmc

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:12 PM

Wish I had as good of a result on NPC as you! :(

Hey everyone! It's been a couple weeks since I've been on the forums (sorry!) but I just wanted to update you with some details. Since moving I have been busy nonstop getting the new place ready, and then the Thanksgiving holiday showed up and I was busy making a huge dinner.

 

Anyway, during all of the stress and activity, and on top of that, being newly unemployed with very little income... I have not been taking supplements like I did before moving. In fact, I have barely taken progesterone, no vitamin D, and almost half of the DIM I was taking.

 

Still totally clear. I was super worried about forgetting progesterone, that all my estrogen dominance symptoms would come raging back like they did when I stopped for even a day before. Not the case this time. I feel amazing just like when I was taking it daily.

 

I'm aware it has only been a couple weeks. I don't plan to stop my regimen by any means. I would like to cut down on DIM if only 1 pill a day keeps me clear instead of two, but I am not going to give up clear skin for it. I will however, stop using progesterone daily since I don't need it that often anymore. Instead I might try starting on day 12 or whatever. I read somewhere that you can lower your dose after a while if you're feeling better — I'll try to find that link again. I was planning on buying more vitamin D today, too. 

 

Anyway, it's good to know that in some cases your body can adjust to higher progesterone and you don't become quite so dependent on it. I'm still feeling great but I will try to continue to remain on a similar regimen, at least for now. (:



#166 WishClean

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:58 PM

Hey everyone! It's been a couple weeks since I've been on the forums (sorry!) but I just wanted to update you with some details. Since moving I have been busy nonstop getting the new place ready, and then the Thanksgiving holiday showed up and I was busy making a huge dinner.

 

Anyway, during all of the stress and activity, and on top of that, being newly unemployed with very little income... I have not been taking supplements like I did before moving. In fact, I have barely taken progesterone, no vitamin D, and almost half of the DIM I was taking.

 

Still totally clear. I was super worried about forgetting progesterone, that all my estrogen dominance symptoms would come raging back like they did when I stopped for even a day before. Not the case this time. I feel amazing just like when I was taking it daily.

 

I'm aware it has only been a couple weeks. I don't plan to stop my regimen by any means. I would like to cut down on DIM if only 1 pill a day keeps me clear instead of two, but I am not going to give up clear skin for it. I will however, stop using progesterone daily since I don't need it that often anymore. Instead I might try starting on day 12 or whatever. I read somewhere that you can lower your dose after a while if you're feeling better — I'll try to find that link again. I was planning on buying more vitamin D today, too. 

 

Anyway, it's good to know that in some cases your body can adjust to higher progesterone and you don't become quite so dependent on it. I'm still feeling great but I will try to continue to remain on a similar regimen, at least for now. (:

Hey hearts! I'm so glad you are still clear!  My dr. gave me a prescription for compounded progesterone cream in case I want to add it, but I wasn't sure I could do it long term, so it's encouraging to know it might be possible to wean off it after a while. Does the body learn to produce progesterone on its own eventually, or does it become reliant on this external source of NPC? 



#167 hearts

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:38 AM

Wish I had as good of a result on NPC as you! sad.png

 

I'm sorry to hear that it's not working that great for you, brenmc. sad.png Is it still helping other things besides acne? If it is, it could be that it is still helping with low progesterone but you have another issue in addition, like I did. Like I mentioned before, I still had excess androgens which DIM took care of. I didn't clear completely from progesterone alone, either. I hope you can find something that works for you soon. What are you thinking about doing now?


Edited by hearts, 04 December 2013 - 11:54 AM.


#168 hearts

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:54 AM

Hey hearts! I'm so glad you are still clear!  My dr. gave me a prescription for compounded progesterone cream in case I want to add it, but I wasn't sure I could do it long term, so it's encouraging to know it might be possible to wean off it after a while. Does the body learn to produce progesterone on its own eventually, or does it become reliant on this external source of NPC? 

 

Thanks, WishClean! I'm gonna have to read through your posts and catch up. How is everything going for you?

I hope someone else weighs in here... I really have no idea if a body can just start producing more progesterone by using NPC. In my case, it really seems like it, but of course it's purely anecdotal. I don't plan to stop progesterone, however. I plan to use it when I need it and during certain points in my cycle (e.g., ovulation.) It has so many great benefits, if only for an antiaging face cream! It's just good to know that I don't need it daily anymore — especially for my budget, haha.


DIM is a different story. I have a feeling it is more like spiro, in that 3-4 months of not using it the acne will start coming back. I think that's how oral antiandrogens work, unfortunately. On the other hand though, DIM is not ONLY an antiandrogen, it has the estrogen-metabolism effects as well. I might try every other day only taking one pill to see if it keeps working as well. 


Gotta love trial and error. Funnnnn stuff, haha. rolleyes.gif


Edited by hearts, 04 December 2013 - 11:57 AM.


#169 DanTheNewWorld

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:21 PM

"3,3′-Diindolylmethane or DIM is a compound derived from the digestion of indole-3-carbinol, found in cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage and kale.[1] The reputation of Brassica vegetables as healthy foods rests in part on the activities of diindolylmethane. "(wiki)

 

what's wrong with eating these foods instead of DIM(?) if i remember correctly what i saw in the composition of the DIM that i was interested in (which is quite expensive) was: some mg of cabbage, broccoli, etc. (wth)

 

also i wouldn't call "antiandrogens"  for acne help because, well these up here aim mainly at controlling estrogen, and in my experimentation i took a bounch of teas (like fennel, spearmint, etc) which i found labeled as antiandrogens and in 1week semen was cut down 50%, 3days later 90%, oh and didn't do much or anything i think to my acne, so no antiandrogens for me *please*, anti DHT yes, oh yes.(doesn't affect sperm, but acne)


Edited by DanTheNewWorld, 04 December 2013 - 01:28 PM.


#170 hearts

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:41 PM

"3,3′-Diindolylmethane or DIM is a compound derived from the digestion of indole-3-carbinol, found in cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage and kale.[1] The reputation of Brassica vegetables as healthy foods rests in part on the activities of diindolylmethane. "(wiki)

 

what's wrong with eating these foods instead of DIM(?) if i remember correctly what i saw in the composition of the DIM that i was interested in (which is quite expensive) was: some mg of cabbage, broccoli, etc. (wth)

 

also i wouldn't call "antiandrogens"  for acne help because, well these up here aim mainly at controlling estrogen, and in my experimentation i took a bounch of teas (like fennel, spearmint, etc) which i found labeled as antiandrogens and in 1week semen was cut down 50%, 3days later 90%, oh and didn't do much or anything i think to my acne, so no antiandrogens for me *please*, anti DHT yes, oh yes

 

You would have to eat massive amounts of broccoli, etc. to imitate the same effects of DIM. It is also concentrated and absorbed in a different way which allows it to be a consistent dose... you wouldn't be able to eat those massive amounts all day, every day.

Are you saying that antiandrogens don't help acne, or DIM isn't an antiandrogen? Both of these statements are incorrect, so I guess it doesn't matter either way. Antiandrogens have helped clear acne in tons of women, which is why spironolactone is commonly prescribed. Men have also had success with Saw Palmetto and DIM. DIM is a very potent natural antiandrogen, see here
 

I don't understand... I saw another post of yours which said you are taking Saw Palmetto, which is also a natural antiandrogen.


Edited by hearts, 04 December 2013 - 01:42 PM.


#171 DanTheNewWorld

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 02:23 PM

"3,3′-Diindolylmethane or DIM is a compound derived from the digestion of indole-3-carbinol, found in cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage and kale.[1] The reputation of Brassica vegetables as healthy foods rests in part on the activities of diindolylmethane. "(wiki)

 

what's wrong with eating these foods instead of DIM(?) if i remember correctly what i saw in the composition of the DIM that i was interested in (which is quite expensive) was: some mg of cabbage, broccoli, etc. (wth)

 

also i wouldn't call "antiandrogens"  for acne help because, well these up here aim mainly at controlling estrogen, and in my experimentation i took a bounch of teas (like fennel, spearmint, etc) which i found labeled as antiandrogens and in 1week semen was cut down 50%, 3days later 90%, oh and didn't do much or anything i think to my acne, so no antiandrogens for me *please*, anti DHT yes, oh yes

 

You would have to eat massive amounts of broccoli, etc. to imitate the same effects of DIM. It is also concentrated and absorbed in a different way which allows it to be a consistent dose... you wouldn't be able to eat those massive amounts all day, every day.

Are you saying that antiandrogens don't help acne, or DIM isn't an antiandrogen? Both of these statements are incorrect, so I guess it doesn't matter either way. Antiandrogens have helped clear acne in tons of women, which is why spironolactone is commonly prescribed. Men have also had success with Saw Palmetto and DIM. DIM is a very potent natural antiandrogen, see here
 

I don't understand... I saw another post of yours which said you are taking Saw Palmetto, which is also a natural antiandrogen.

i'm actually starting a log about saw palmetto.

so the main idea is that i don't know almost anything about acne. i think neither doctors do. even if my *regimen* works i would still be clueless, and not sure if it's the/a right way to treat this. i simply imitade (like a monkey lol) and follow some treatment recipes.

hormone_chart.jpg

SP is antiandrogenic but.. (look at the chart for DHT). i wouldn't want to simply cut "a bit of androgens" in me. now.. the thing that came/comes to (my) mind is why not use this topically, which i try to do, but i wouldn't put much weight on these theories.

i'm not starting to search again for these DIM I3C etc, on those links "controlling estrogen" was predominantly what i saw/remembered. i started searching lol for a I3c product, and it says "it's recommended to eat at least one meal of Cruciferous/day but the average is 1/week". 

i expect cabbage&co to work in many ways, adressing different issues.


Edited by DanTheNewWorld, 04 December 2013 - 03:15 PM.


#172 WishClean

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 05:17 PM

Saw palmetto can make estrogen dominance worse. Just sayin' eusa_whistle.gif



#173 hearts

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 05:38 PM

I'm actually starting a log about saw palmetto.

so the main idea is that i don't know almost anything about acne. i think neither doctors do. even if my *regimen* works i would still be clueless, and not sure if it's the/a right way to treat this. i simply imitade (like a monkey lol) and follow some treatment recipes.

hormone_chart.jpg

SP is antiandrogenic but.. (look at the chart for DHT). i wouldn't want to simply cut "a bit of androgens" in me. now.. the thing that came/comes to (my) mind is why not use this topically, which i try to do, but i wouldn't put much weight on these theories.

i'm not starting to search again for these DIM I3C etc, on those links "controlling estrogen" was predominantly what i saw/remembered. i started searching lol for a I3c product, and it says "it's recommended to eat at least one meal of Cruciferous/day but the average is 1/week". 

i expect cabbage&co to work in many ways, adressing different issues.

 

Haha. I ate at least that much before starting DIM. If that is the case, I would be clear without DIM or anything else! (:

 

By the way, there are topical antiandrogens. There are some topics in this forum created by Green Gables discussing the options.

 

DIM affects androgens AND estrogens. It supports good estrogen metabolism as well as lowering androgen levels. You can read much more here. It also discusses further on how DIM can help men.

 

There are also other 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors if you're going for that... beta-sitosterol, gamma-linolenic acid, zinc, riboflavin, green tea, reishi mushrooms, coconut, as well as many others. This isn't a Saw Palmetto thread, but there are many on this board where you can discuss it further.


Edited by hearts, 04 December 2013 - 05:38 PM.


#174 DanTheNewWorld

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 04:30 AM

hearts i stopped reading that last link because it continuosly speaks about controlling estrogen like in my first impression that i mentioned, (it just goes into details). i read the part reffering to males also.

i read some green gabbles articles, very helpful, i'll look into topical antiandrogens with more focus, thanks for the tip.

i feel out of place here at your girls acne topic, if eating cruciferous didn't help i would go the "it's mainly the progesteron cream that has effect" idea but i'm sure you experimented a lot so i'll not go into debate with the expert.

i don't want to "push" foods to much, making them allopathic meds, i don't trust the medical field that much in these fine workings like hormones. that's why i give a (second) chance to a bit of "power of nature".

oh and thanks for the alternatives to SP, only i did my reseach making nests of lists, of nests of links from wikipedia on anti-androgens and anti-DHT. i'll try to help SP with pygeum, pine, tuia, angelica, ganoderma, etc like u mentioned this is not the topic for this.


Edited by DanTheNewWorld, 05 December 2013 - 05:11 AM.


#175 hearts

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 10:48 AM

hearts i stopped reading that last link because it continuosly speaks about controlling estrogen like in my first impression that i mentioned, (it just goes into details). i read the part reffering to males also.

i read some green gabbles articles, very helpful, i'll look into topical antiandrogens with more focus, thanks for the tip.

i feel out of place here at your girls acne topic, if eating cruciferous didn't help i would go the "it's mainly the progesteron cream that has effect" idea but i'm sure you experimented a lot so i'll not go into debate with the expert.

i don't want to "push" foods to much, making them allopathic meds, i don't trust the medical field that much in these fine workings like hormones. that's why i give a (second) chance to a bit of "power of nature".

oh and thanks for the alternatives to SP, only i did my reseach making nests of lists, of nests of links from wikipedia on anti-androgens and anti-DHT. i'll try to help SP with pygeum, pine, tuia, angelica, ganoderma, etc like u mentioned this is not the topic for this.

 

That's fine... as DIM is mainly used to metabolize estrogen and rid the body of bad estrogen metabolites. Antiandrogen effect is secondary, at least in most studies, but it really helped me. I tried progesterone for quite a while alone and though it did help clear quite a bit of acne, it didn't clear me completely.


I didn't mean to say foods don't affect us and our skin... they certainly can. I apologize for not being clear. It can depend on the food and the person, however. Some people can clear on a super clean diet alone, but I tried that with no avail. I know some foods are powerful too like green tea, as there are many studies to back it up. This all being said, I don't think eating a meal of broccoli or cabbage a day would be the same as taking a DIM supplement.

 

I agree with you about not trusting the medical field with hormones. Obviously I decided to take it into my own hands as well, with much more success.

Good luck with Saw Palmetto and whatever else you try. I hope you achieve clear skin naturally! (:


Edited by hearts, 05 December 2013 - 10:48 AM.


#176 preeD

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 10:57 AM

It is wonderful that this worked for you. I am currently taking DIM and it has greatly helped with my cystic acne! However I was wondering what you did to help with the marks left behind? Thanks



#177 hearts

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 10:46 AM

It is wonderful that this worked for you. I am currently taking DIM and it has greatly helped with my cystic acne! However I was wondering what you did to help with the marks left behind? Thanks

 

Thank you, preeD! I am so glad that DIM is working for you too! (:

If the marks are red (hyperpigmentation) then aloe helps a great deal. Also I use witch hazel + aloe toner after rinsing my face which helps with inflammation and redness.

 

If the marks are indented (or still new) and red, this means they are still healing. In my experience, acne wounds can take a full year to heal before it leaves a more permanent scar. After one really bad cyst on my face that I was stupid and picked, it left a huge red indent. I was sooo scared that I would get a big scar. It took almost a year, but it did fill in and reverted back to a normal color.

 

As for raised scars... I don't know what to do about these. I have many small ones on my back from years of cysts, but I'm pretty sure you'd have to get treated at a dermatologist with a laser or something. When I was clear from spiro, the derm gave me facial peels on my back which did seem to help some. I'm not too worried about them though, since they are on my back and I have long hair.

Lastly, hypopigmentation — I have olive skin so I would get these white scars a lot too. Not sure how common they are though. They usually eventually fade, but I tried apple cider vinegar on them and it seemed to speed up the process. I have heard vinegar is great for all kinds of scarring, though I haven't tested this thoroughly yet. I have also read that ginger (rub the juice on them) fades them.

 

I hope this helps! If you have any other questions feel free to ask. This board has many intelligent people who are willing to help! (:


Edited by hearts, 06 December 2013 - 11:02 AM.


#178 preeD

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 03:57 PM

Thank you, preeD! I am so glad that DIM is working for you too! (:


If the marks are red (hyperpigmentation) then aloe helps a great deal. Also I use witch hazel + aloe toner after rinsing my face which helps with inflammation and redness.

 

If the marks are indented (or still new) and red, this means they are still healing. In my experience, acne wounds can take a full year to heal before it leaves a more permanent scar. After one really bad cyst on my face that I was stupid and picked, it left a huge red indent. I was sooo scared that I would get a big scar. It took almost a year, but it did fill in and reverted back to a normal color.

 

As for raised scars... I don't know what to do about these. I have many small ones on my back from years of cysts, but I'm pretty sure you'd have to get treated at a dermatologist with a laser or something. When I was clear from spiro, the derm gave me facial peels on my back which did seem to help some. I'm not too worried about them though, since they are on my back and I have long hair.

Lastly, hypopigmentation — I have olive skin so I would get these white scars a lot too. Not sure how common they are though. They usually eventually fade, but I tried apple cider vinegar on them and it seemed to speed up the process. I have heard vinegar is great for all kinds of scarring, though I haven't tested this thoroughly yet. I have also read that ginger (rub the juice on them) fades them.

 

I hope this helps! If you have any other questions feel free to ask. This board has many intelligent people who are willing to help! (:

 Thank you so much hearts! :)That was very helpful.. I am mulling over a salicylic peel to help with the scars. And am definitely going to try the AC vinegar! Thanks again



#179 WishClean

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:58 PM

As you know, I have been considering DIM for a while now and I'm finally ready to add it to my regimen. My melasma has faded quite a bit these past few months, but it's still noticeable to me, and I think DIM might be worth a shot. Plus, I have been indulging a lot during the holidays, and my skin definitely hasn't become immune to food intolerances. I'm hoping that by addressing estrogen dominance, some of my allergies might also go away too (I read greengables' links to studies on estrogen dominance and histamine reactions, which is what I get when my histamines rise). Anyway, do you have any tips on when to take DIM (am/pm, split dosage etc), how much to initially take (I read some reviews about possible allergic reactions, so I think I will start low), and if it's best taken with or without food? 

Thanks :)



#180 hearts

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:06 AM

As you know, I have been considering DIM for a while now and I'm finally ready to add it to my regimen. My melasma has faded quite a bit these past few months, but it's still noticeable to me, and I think DIM might be worth a shot. Plus, I have been indulging a lot during the holidays, and my skin definitely hasn't become immune to food intolerances. I'm hoping that by addressing estrogen dominance, some of my allergies might also go away too (I read greengables' links to studies on estrogen dominance and histamine reactions, which is what I get when my histamines rise). Anyway, do you have any tips on when to take DIM (am/pm, split dosage etc), how much to initially take (I read some reviews about possible allergic reactions, so I think I will start low), and if it's best taken with or without food? 

Thanks smile.png

 

I take DIM in the morning and before sleep, splitting the dose — I don't think it matters though. I took the recommended dose from the beginning (100mg or two capsules), and saw even faster improvement in my skin when I took 150mg (3 capsules) for a while. Once I was clear I went back down to 50-100mg. I don't see any harm in taking a lower dose to start... it might just take longer to see results. It is a hormonal supplement so it may take a few months (it did for me), even though I read reviews and anecdotes of it working for some much sooner. 

 

It says on my bottle of DIM to take it with food. I did have some mild stomach cramping the first week of taking it, which I read is normal in a review. It went away for me and the reviewer. I'm not sure why that can happen (veggies = gas?), but someone said taking it with enough food (full meal) helps prevent that. After that first week I haven't had problems either way, food or not.

 

Good luck with it! (: If it doesn't work for what you want you can always just stop. I hope it helps you though... your melasma / skin clears and food intolerances improve!


Edited by hearts, 30 December 2013 - 11:09 AM.





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