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[Pics!] How I Cleared My Hormonal Acne Naturally

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#141 WishClean

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 05:45 PM

Spironolactone slightly raises cortisol as well, though sometimes cortisol is a double-edged sword, too much cortisol can cause midsection weight gain and other problems. 

 

Also remember that progesterone is a precursor to cortisol. It's also a precursor to estrogen and testosterone. Technically it CAN morph into any of those substances as your body sees fit. So it is much more powerful and versatile than an anti-androgen drug because it can regulate hormones but also create more of them!

 

It is hard to say if weight gain on spiro occurs because of estrogen dominance or because of raised cortisol levels. Spiro definitely can give some people insomnia if taken too late in the day because of the cortisol spike (cortisol has to lower as the day wears on so you can fall asleep at night). 

 

Interesting! I knew about progesterone being a precursor to many hormones, but I thought I would just bring it up in this thread because cortisol was mentioned earlier in relation to progesterone. 

 

I didn't know spiro affected cortisol too, however. It's weird, I gained SO much weight and had insomnia on spiro, and absolutely none on progesterone. In fact, progesterone keeps the bloat away and makes me sleep like a baby! Maybe it had to do more with the estrogen in spiro, at least in my case.

 

I have the same issues with anti-androgens...they make me so lethargic and bloated, even when I tried spearmint tea.

I have a question and I need some feedback. So, I think that inositol is mainly helping with facial/body hair reduction, but isn't addressing estrogen imbalances. I read that it can actually be a bit estrogenic, even with the progesterone boost. So what I'm wondering is whether I would benefit from using it with DIM to filter out excess estrogens. I'm staring to think that my increased body hair is caused by androgens, but my acne is caused by high estrogens low progesterone...why else would vitex clear my skin yet cause more facial hair & some shedding on my head? So would DIM work in similar ways as vitex without being as strong? I have a love-hate relationship with vitex but I always resort to it because acne > hirsutism for me lol. But I would like to fix both!

So here are my concerns about DIM, hopefully you can reassure me since you know more about it than I do.

- Does DIM increase GOOD estrogen in addition to filtering out the bad estrogens? And could having too much good estrogen also cause estrogen dominance? I'm worried bc I developed melasma and having more estrogen of any kind will be bad for this.

- Does DIM indirectly boost testosterone ??? I'm worried about this because this is basically what vitex did to me by adjusting my estrogen :progesterone ratio. If so, would the anti-androgenic effects of inositol be enough to counter this?

-Given that vitex has managed to clear my skin in the past while anti-androgens alone (saw palmetto, androcur, spearmint tea) haven't, does that mean that DIM is more likely to work for me since it's almost similar to vitex?

 

Please let me know what you think! I am seriously considering it. I'm also finally picking up a saliva hormone kit from my doctor to see if that will shed some light. Although she wanted me to complete a detox diet first, so I'm a bit embarrassed to tell her I don't have that much self-restraint to only drink liquids for a week! haha



#142 Green Gables

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:06 PM

These two pages will probably answer everything you ever wanted to know about DIM.

 

One

Two



#143 WishClean

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:35 PM

These two pages will probably answer everything you ever wanted to know about DIM.

 

One

Two

Thanks! I noticed that at the vitamin shoppe they sell different DIM supplements for men and women, maybe the men's are more concentrated than the women's....DIM was in the body building section for men to increase their testosterone. And it's also included in some immune boosting supplements, which gives me hope. 

But I'm still a bit confused to be honest. Because it seems that DIM works similarly to vitex, and I know for sure that vitex can increase free testosterone and for me that means more hair in unwanted places & less on my head. So do you think it's a good idea to combine DIM with inositol? I never really did well on just one thing for acne because my hirsutism would get worse on just bcp, and my acne would get worse on just antinadrogens. And my cortisol is probably higher than normal due to the high stress I was under this past year, which is what caused me to start breaking out in the first place. But I don't know what lowers cortisol other than lowering stress levels...

Anyway...I'm trying to see if DIM would work for me in case the hormonal tests show estrogen dominance...I'm probably going to get the full panel.  eusa_pray.gif  


Edited by WishClean, 07 November 2013 - 10:30 PM.


#144 Green Gables

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:27 PM

On that page, it explains that DIM increases free testosterone because it kicks testosterone off of binding proteins. Not necessarily a bad thing, if you think about it, spironolactone just prevents the testosterone from binding in the first place by competing for the receptor. So DIM works in a very similar manner as spironolactone. One kicks testosterone into the free zone (DIM), one blocks it from entering the bound zone (Spiro). 

 

Spiro and DIM don't change your levels of testosterone. It can't take the testosterone out of your body. It just changes the ratio. 

 

So if you have

 

50 bound testosterone / 25 free testosterone

 

Spiro or DIM might change it to something like

 

25 bound testosterone / 75 free testosterone

 

Just hypothetical numbers, but that's the idea. I think DIM is MUCH less potent of an anti-androgen than Spiro, but I haven't been able to find a direct comparison. 

 

Apparently for some people, like me, having MORE free testosterone and LESS bound testosterone clears the skin. 

 

There was little change in the measurement of serum T. However, there was a shift in the distribution of circulating T, with a decrease in SHBG-bound T and an increase in albumin-bound and free T (non-SHBG-bound fractions). Study on Spironolactone.

 

And then of course, this is where the similarities stop.

 

Spironolactone slightly stimulates progesterone.

Spironolactone is somewhat estrogenic.

  • Increases free estrogen. Just like it prevents testosterone from binding to SHBG, it also prevents estrogen from binding, so you get more free estrogen circulating as well. Estrogens are more easily blocked than androgens, so you will actually have a higher amount of free estrogen than free testosterone.
  • Inhibits estradiol from converting to estrone. Both are types of estrogen. So you have more estradiol than estrone. Estradiol is 10 times more potent than estrone, so you have more "estrogen power" during spiro, so to speak.
  • Increases the rate at which the body naturally converts testosterone to estradiol.

Now DIM.

  • Reduces total active estrogen levels
  • Improves the ratio of good/bad estrogen METABOLITES
  • Possibly kicks estrogen from bound to free as well? Can't find any reliable data. 

We need to clarify here that estrogen itself isn't good or bad, it just is. However, estrogen can convert to metabolites that are good or bad. 2-hydroxy metabolites are good, 16-hydroxy metabolites are bad. 

 

DIM speeds up the estrogen conversion process. It reduces active estrogen in the body because it speeds up the conversion of active estrogen to its metabolite. Now DIM makes these metabolites "good" instead of "bad", and that's the benefit, but it still means that your body is eliminating active estrogen faster than normal. 

 

I think this needs to be made clear, because sometimes people talk about estrogen as if they have Good Estrogen circulating around with Bad Estrogen, and we just want to reduce the bad estrogen. That isn't the case. It is the metabolites we are worried about. When estrogen converts to a metabolite, we want a good metabolite and not a bad one. But the way DIM does this is by actually CLEARING active estrogen from the body by converting it into a metabolite faster.

 

So currently, there isn't a solution for people who want better metabolites but want to maintain the same level of estrogen. If they take DIM, good metabolites go up but total active estrogen goes down. 

 

I've never taken Vitex, but it stimulates progesterone, yes? DIM does not stimulate progesterone, so it doesn't share that factor...


Edited by Green Gables, 08 November 2013 - 01:32 PM.


#145 WishClean

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:13 PM

On that page, it explains that DIM increases free testosterone because it kicks testosterone off of binding proteins. Not necessarily a bad thing, if you think about it, spironolactone just prevents the testosterone from binding in the first place by competing for the receptor. So DIM works in a very similar manner as spironolactone. One kicks testosterone into the free zone (DIM), one blocks it from entering the bound zone (Spiro). 

 

Spiro and DIM don't change your levels of testosterone. It can't take the testosterone out of your body. It just changes the ratio. 

 

So if you have

 

50 bound testosterone / 25 free testosterone

 

Spiro or DIM might change it to something like

 

25 bound testosterone / 75 free testosterone

 

Just hypothetical numbers, but that's the idea. I think DIM is MUCH less potent of an anti-androgen than Spiro, but I haven't been able to find a direct comparison. 

 

Apparently for some people, like me, having MORE free testosterone and LESS bound testosterone clears the skin. 

 

There was little change in the measurement of serum T. However, there was a shift in the distribution of circulating T, with a decrease in SHBG-bound T and an increase in albumin-bound and free T (non-SHBG-bound fractions). Study on Spironolactone.

 

And then of course, this is where the similarities stop.

 

Spironolactone slightly stimulates progesterone.

Spironolactone is somewhat estrogenic.

  • Increases free estrogen. Just like it prevents testosterone from binding to SHBG, it also prevents estrogen from binding, so you get more free estrogen circulating as well. Estrogens are more easily blocked than androgens, so you will actually have a higher amount of free estrogen than free testosterone.
  • Inhibits estradiol from converting to estrone. Both are types of estrogen. So you have more estradiol than estrone. Estradiol is 10 times more potent than estrone, so you have more "estrogen power" during spiro, so to speak.
  • Increases the rate at which the body naturally converts testosterone to estradiol.

Now DIM.

  • Reduces total active estrogen levels
  • Improves the ratio of good/bad estrogen METABOLITES
  • Possibly kicks estrogen from bound to free as well? Can't find any reliable data. 

We need to clarify here that estrogen itself isn't good or bad, it just is. However, estrogen can convert to metabolites that are good or bad. 2-hydroxy metabolites are good, 16-hydroxy metabolites are bad. 

 

DIM speeds up the estrogen conversion process. It reduces active estrogen in the body because it speeds up the conversion of active estrogen to its metabolite. Now DIM makes these metabolites "good" instead of "bad", and that's the benefit, but it still means that your body is eliminating active estrogen faster than normal. 

 

I think this needs to be made clear, because sometimes people talk about estrogen as if they have Good Estrogen circulating around with Bad Estrogen, and we just want to reduce the bad estrogen. That isn't the case. It is the metabolites we are worried about. When estrogen converts to a metabolite, we want a good metabolite and not a bad one. But the way DIM does this is by actually CLEARING active estrogen from the body by converting it into a metabolite faster.

 

So currently, there isn't a solution for people who want better metabolites but want to maintain the same level of estrogen. If they take DIM, good metabolites go up but total active estrogen goes down. 

 

I've never taken Vitex, but it stimulates progesterone, yes? DIM does not stimulate progesterone, so it doesn't share that factor...

Ahh it makes sense, thanks for the detailed explanation. It makes more sense to me now because I thought free testosterone is still bad for acne. My last blood test - which was for the most part useless - showed my testosterone levels in the "normal" range, which is why the doctor couldn't explain the hirsutism. But I thought that was because they didn't test for free testosterone. They didn't even bother testing my estrogen because my periods are regular. The only thing that pointed to the cause of acne was low progesterone, which can also cause hirsutism, correct? 

Vitex is supposed to balance the estrogen: progesterone ratio. Many women say that it helped with hirsutism too, but for me it was the opposite. But then again, cortisol can also cause hirsutism, especially under stress, and it sends the body into fight or flight mode. That's the onset of adrenal fatigue, which I think that could be what triggered all my issues this past year because I have been under overwhelming stress. Going off vitex definitely didn't help either because there was nothing to balance my hormones once I was off it. Inositol is the only thing that's come close, but not yet as effective with the acne, more so with the hirsutism though. 

When I was researching DIM, I came across calcium d-glucarate. It's supposed to be a liver detoxifier and it helps filter out excess hormones, especially estrogen.  Someone on this forum said it cleared her acne dramatically, so I'm wondering if any of you heard anything about it. Basically, something that would help the liver work more efficiently and perform a similar function as DIM. What do you think? 

I



#146 Green Gables

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:56 PM

When I have more time I might spend some time researching calcium d-glucarate. I like to do most of my research on actual scientific journals before I form an opinion or post about it, so I can't offer much on that topic yet, sorry.



#147 WishClean

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:53 PM

When I have more time I might spend some time researching calcium d-glucarate. I like to do most of my research on actual scientific journals before I form an opinion or post about it, so I can't offer much on that topic yet, sorry.

Yeah, there isn't much to research unfortunately. But I ordered it to see if it would help with ovulation breakouts and will make a new thread about it if it does indeed work. The  most promising supplement by far is definitely inositol, but I need something to also flush out excess estrogen, which inositol doesn't do. 



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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:03 PM

When I have more time I might spend some time researching calcium d-glucarate. I like to do most of my research on actual scientific journals before I form an opinion or post about it, so I can't offer much on that topic yet, sorry.

Yeah, there isn't much to research unfortunately. But I ordered it to see if it would help with ovulation breakouts and will make a new thread about it if it does indeed work. The  most promising supplement by far is definitely inositol, but I need something to also flush out excess estrogen, which inositol doesn't do. 

 

Good luck with the CDG! (: Let us know how it goes. I have heard of it and read of some having success, but I also have read of some who break out from it. I guess it's the same thing with DIM, though. Supposedly it reduces estrogen more directly, unlike DIM. If that's what you're going for, it sounds like something that's worth giving a try. The only paper I could find quickly on CDG working to reduce estrogen levels used a much higher dose than normal supplements, but it also reduced estrogen levels dramatically.
 

http://www.thorne.co...ancer_Part2.pdf
 

Oral administration of calcium D-glucarate (a calcium salt of D-glucaric acid) led to an inhibition of chemically induced mammary carcinogenesis in rats. Serum estrogen levels were 23-percent lower in rats receiving the calcium D-glucarate. The 4.5mM/kg doses of calcium D-glucarate used in this trial were very large, however. To approximate this dose in a 70kg human, 78 grams would be required.

 

 

I'm sure you already know this, but I want to remind everyone to be careful when supplementing with some vitamins and minerals. When you have excess of a certain minerals for example (e.g., calcium) you can throw off other mineral balances (e.g., magnesium.) Too much calcium without magnesium can cause other problems like depression, etc. The ratio of zinc and copper can be imbalanced in similar way. I like to supplement with a little zinc because I have a copper IUD and I eat a lot of nuts, etc, which are high in copper. I've also read that you can throw off vitamin levels like certain B vitamins by taking too much of one particular B instead of a complex. Anyway, just something to remember.



#149 WishClean

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:12 PM

 

When I have more time I might spend some time researching calcium d-glucarate. I like to do most of my research on actual scientific journals before I form an opinion or post about it, so I can't offer much on that topic yet, sorry.

Yeah, there isn't much to research unfortunately. But I ordered it to see if it would help with ovulation breakouts and will make a new thread about it if it does indeed work. The  most promising supplement by far is definitely inositol, but I need something to also flush out excess estrogen, which inositol doesn't do. 

 

Good luck with the CDG! (: Let us know how it goes. I have heard of it and read of some having success, but I also have read of some who break out from it. I guess it's the same thing with DIM, though. Supposedly it reduces estrogen more directly, unlike DIM. If that's what you're going for, it sounds like something that's worth giving a try. The only paper I could find quickly on CDG working to reduce estrogen levels used a much higher dose than normal supplements, but it also reduced estrogen levels dramatically.
 

>http://www.thorne.co...ancer_Part2.pdf
 

Oral administration of calcium D-glucarate (a calcium salt of D-glucaric acid) led to an inhibition of chemically induced mammary carcinogenesis in rats. Serum estrogen levels were 23-percent lower in rats receiving the calcium D-glucarate. The 4.5mM/kg doses of calcium D-glucarate used in this trial were very large, however. To approximate this dose in a 70kg human, 78 grams would be required.

 

 

I'm sure you already know this, but I want to remind everyone to be careful when supplementing with some vitamins and minerals. When you have excess of a certain minerals for example (e.g., calcium) you can throw off other mineral balances (e.g., magnesium.) Too much calcium without magnesium can cause other problems like depression, etc. The ratio of zinc and copper can be imbalanced in similar way. I like to supplement with a little zinc because I have a copper IUD and I eat a lot of nuts, etc, which are high in copper. I've also read that you can throw off vitamin levels like certain B vitamins by taking too much of one particular B instead of a complex. Anyway, just something to remember.

 

Thanks for the link! This is probably one of the few clinical studies on cdc.  I don't like the fact that these studies never follow up, so it's hard to tell what is safe for long term use and what is not. I agree, supplementing with only some vitamins & minerals can cause other imbalances. I hope inositol doesn't throw off the rest of the b vitamins, but any time I try a b complex I break out, and it's usually not included in b complexes (prohormone) so I think that and vitamin D should be fine to supplement individually. I am a bit worried about calcium though because I never had to supplement with it...I was going to try it for a few months, then move on to DIM if that works.



#150 hearts

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 05:45 PM

Thanks for the link! This is probably one of the few clinical studies on cdc.  I don't like the fact that these studies never follow up, so it's hard to tell what is safe for long term use and what is not. I agree, supplementing with only some vitamins & minerals can cause other imbalances. I hope inositol doesn't throw off the rest of the b vitamins, but any time I try a b complex I break out, and it's usually not included in b complexes (prohormone) so I think that and vitamin D should be fine to supplement individually. I am a bit worried about calcium though because I never had to supplement with it...I was going to try it for a few months, then move on to DIM if that works.

 

No problem! Yeah there doesn't seem to be as much out there as some other supplements. As you could tell, that paper actually discusses potential prevention/treatment of cancer with various supplements, etc. It was just lucky that it mentioned CDG reducing estrogen. This is not the first time I have seen excess estrogen linked to some cancers... it's certainly interesting. I'm definitely going to drink more green tea after reading that paper, though! (: Mmmm preventing cancer....yummm lol

 

I don't know if taking just inositol would cause any imbalances with B vitamins. It's technically a b vitamin, but like you said it's not usually included in the complexes, so I have no idea! And as far as I know, vitamin D is safe to supplement with alone.


I wish you the best with CDG. Maybe it'll be perfect for you! (: I would love to know how it goes, as well as your updated progress with inositol and HCL. And of course, I'm pro DIM so it's an option if CDG doesn't work!


Edited by hearts, 10 November 2013 - 05:46 PM.


#151 WishClean

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 01:20 PM

Thanks for the link! This is probably one of the few clinical studies on cdc.  I don't like the fact that these studies never follow up, so it's hard to tell what is safe for long term use and what is not. I agree, supplementing with only some vitamins & minerals can cause other imbalances. I hope inositol doesn't throw off the rest of the b vitamins, but any time I try a b complex I break out, and it's usually not included in b complexes (prohormone) so I think that and vitamin D should be fine to supplement individually. I am a bit worried about calcium though because I never had to supplement with it...I was going to try it for a few months, then move on to DIM if that works.

 

No problem! Yeah there doesn't seem to be as much out there as some other supplements. As you could tell, that paper actually discusses potential prevention/treatment of cancer with various supplements, etc. It was just lucky that it mentioned CDG reducing estrogen. This is not the first time I have seen excess estrogen linked to some cancers... it's certainly interesting. I'm definitely going to drink more green tea after reading that paper, though! (: Mmmm preventing cancer....yummm lol

 

I don't know if taking just inositol would cause any imbalances with B vitamins. It's technically a b vitamin, but like you said it's not usually included in the complexes, so I have no idea! And as far as I know, vitamin D is safe to supplement with alone.


I wish you the best with CDG. Maybe it'll be perfect for you! (: I would love to know how it goes, as well as your updated progress with inositol and HCL. And of course, I'm pro DIM so it's an option if CDG doesn't work!

 

Thanks! I will test CDG out and report back grinwink.gif  I hope there's no detoxing though because that always puts me off. I need to have backups in case inositol stops working. So after CDG, DIM is next on my list. Or I might take them together, especially during crucial days like ovulation - I think that's where my estrogen spikes and causes problems. I also found that on some days, when I take inositol I get bloated, so I think that has something to do with estrogen dominance. So, I'm trying to take inositol all month except around ovulation and my period, kind of what I was doing with NPC, to see if that will even things out. 

It seems that for melasma DIM is the best option, though. I just have to find a DIM supplement with no gelatin and nothing extra (some have D3 which breaks me out)...the one you take has a gelatin capsule, right? Or does it come in a vegetarian capsule as well?

 

Green tea must be one of the few people whose skin



#152 hearts

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 05:29 PM

Thanks! I will test CDG out and report back grinwink.gif  I hope there's no detoxing though because that always puts me off. I need to have backups in case inositol stops working. So after CDG, DIM is next on my list. Or I might take them together, especially during crucial days like ovulation - I think that's where my estrogen spikes and causes problems. I also found that on some days, when I take inositol I get bloated, so I think that has something to do with estrogen dominance. So, I'm trying to take inositol all month except around ovulation and my period, kind of what I was doing with NPC, to see if that will even things out. 

It seems that for melasma DIM is the best option, though. I just have to find a DIM supplement with no gelatin and nothing extra (some have D3 which breaks me out)...the one you take has a gelatin capsule, right? Or does it come in a vegetarian capsule as well?

 

Green tea must be one of the few people whose skin

 

Here is the brand that I am taking. $17 for a 60 day supply is pretty cheap. It does appear to contain gelatin, though.

 

http://www.amazon.co...0/dp/B00014IGXS

  • Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopheryl succinate) - 9IU
  • BioResponse-DIM™ complex (patented, enhanced bioavailability complex containing 25% diindolymethane) starch, diindolylmethane, natural vitamin E, phosphatidyl (soy) choline, silica - 100mg
  • Protectamins® spinach powder, cabbage powder, concentrated broccoli powder - 100mg
  • Other Ingredients: Cellulose, Gelatin, Chlorophyll
     
  • Does not contain: artificial coloring, artificial flavoring, dairy products, gluten, preservatives, salt, sugar, wheat, yeast

Other brands of DIM are good too, this is just the one I chose. Estroblock is another popular brand.

 

I don't know what you were saying about green tea, haha.


Edited by hearts, 11 November 2013 - 05:32 PM.


#153 WishClean

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:11 PM

Thanks! I will test CDG out and report back grinwink.gif  I hope there's no detoxing though because that always puts me off. I need to have backups in case inositol stops working. So after CDG, DIM is next on my list. Or I might take them together, especially during crucial days like ovulation - I think that's where my estrogen spikes and causes problems. I also found that on some days, when I take inositol I get bloated, so I think that has something to do with estrogen dominance. So, I'm trying to take inositol all month except around ovulation and my period, kind of what I was doing with NPC, to see if that will even things out. 

It seems that for melasma DIM is the best option, though. I just have to find a DIM supplement with no gelatin and nothing extra (some have D3 which breaks me out)...the one you take has a gelatin capsule, right? Or does it come in a vegetarian capsule as well?

 

Green tea must be one of the few people whose skin

 

Here is the brand that I am taking. $17 for a 60 day supply is pretty cheap. It does appear to contain gelatin, though.

 

http://www.amazon.co...0/dp/B00014IGXS

  • Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopheryl succinate) - 9IU
  • BioResponse-DIM™ complex (patented, enhanced bioavailability complex containing 25% diindolymethane) starch, diindolylmethane, natural vitamin E, phosphatidyl (soy) choline, silica - 100mg
  • Protectamins® spinach powder, cabbage powder, concentrated broccoli powder - 100mg
  • Other Ingredients: Cellulose, Gelatin, Chlorophyll
     
  • Does not contain: artificial coloring, artificial flavoring, dairy products, gluten, preservatives, salt, sugar, wheat, yeast

Other brands of DIM are good too, this is just the one I chose. Estroblock is another popular brand.

 

I don't know what you were saying about green tea, haha.

Thanks! I'll definitely add DIM to the list to try, it sounds like it might work for me. I finally made an appointment to re-check my vitamin D levels and get a full hormonal panel. I'm seeing a really good doctor who specializes in bio identical hormone therapy, so I'm hoping she'll be receptive to letting me try out things like NPC and DIM along with the inositol. The only thing is that the saliva testing takes a while to complete, and I'm anxious to know asap! I was looking at my old blood tests from April, and it seems that my DHEA was in the "normal" range but on the high side, and my total testosterone was at the limit of the high range. Progesterone was in the very low range. And estrogen non existent because they didn't bother to test for it! lol. 

Oh, I forgot to finish what I was saying about green tea. I used to drink it by the gallon and it made my acne worse. I'm probably one of the few again. Is it helping you? 



#154 hearts

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:16 AM

Thanks! I'll definitely add DIM to the list to try, it sounds like it might work for me. I finally made an appointment to re-check my vitamin D levels and get a full hormonal panel. I'm seeing a really good doctor who specializes in bio identical hormone therapy, so I'm hoping she'll be receptive to letting me try out things like NPC and DIM along with the inositol. The only thing is that the saliva testing takes a while to complete, and I'm anxious to know asap! I was looking at my old blood tests from April, and it seems that my DHEA was in the "normal" range but on the high side, and my total testosterone was at the limit of the high range. Progesterone was in the very low range. And estrogen non existent because they didn't bother to test for it! lol. 

Oh, I forgot to finish what I was saying about green tea. I used to drink it by the gallon and it made my acne worse. I'm probably one of the few again. Is it helping you? 

 

Oh, awesome! Good luck with the tests. (: How long does it take to see the results? I'm so happy to hear that the doctor specializes in bio-identical hormones. I wish I found someone like that in the beginning! 

I don't react either way to green tea, at least at the current amount I drink. I drink A LOT of both coffee and tea... like at least 4-8 cups of iced coffee a day and I have one of those japanese water boilers that I use for tea which dispenses a gallon of hot water. I am going to try to drink more green tea, though. I usually drink many different teas like chamomile, lavender, oolong, spearmint, chai, and green. Here's another study on green tea reducing cancer risks — apparently it does support estrogen metabolism.

 

In premenopausal women, intake of green tea was associated with lower luteal total EM (P trend=0.01) and lower urinary 16-pathway EM (P trend=0.01). In postmenopausal women, urinary estrone and estradiol were approximately 20% and 40% lower (P trend=0.01 and 0.05, respectively) in women drinking green tea daily compared to those drinking<1 time/week.


Edited by hearts, 12 November 2013 - 10:18 AM.


#155 WishClean

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 07:56 PM

Wow, that's a lot of caffeine. You're lucky you can tolerate it! haha



#156 Green Gables

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 08:22 PM

Yeah...caffeine would always break me out...



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Posted 13 November 2013 - 10:14 AM

Yeah, I love coffee. I do drink more during summer months than now. I didn't start drinking it until a few years ago either, so I know it's unrelated... I'm also still clear.



#158 brenmc

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:57 PM

WishClean,

I think you're right to add something to the inositol. For me, the inositol definitely did not work alone.
Can I ask why CDG vs progesterone cream?

#159 WishClean

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 07:55 PM

WishClean,

I think you're right to add something to the inositol. For me, the inositol definitely did not work alone.
Can I ask why CDG vs progesterone cream?

I only take inositol in the mornings now, just like in the studies I read, and I think it's working better for me that way. Not sure why it says to take it at bedtime on the bottle, I think it might make some people sleepy but I don't think it does that for me, at least not anymore. I think inositol can work alone for women who don't have high estrogen. The studies I read combined inositol with folic acid, but the placebo group as also taking folic acid and it didn't help with the acne. So it does work on its own, but if estrogens have anything to do with acne then it's better to add something like DIM or CDG to filter out excess/ xenoestrogens. 

I think at this point, since inositol boosts progesterone, I should add something to regulate estrogen, that's why I'm not going for the NPC at the moment. CDG filters other excess hormones too, and helps in liver detoxification, so I thought I would give that a try before DIM. If the liver is not functioning properly, then DIM can cause an initial breakout. 

I'm seeing my doctor on Wednesday and she specializes in bioidentical hormone therapy, so I thought I'd wait until I meet with her to hear what she has to say about NPC. She can also order custom-made multivitamins for me, but I have to take more tests for that and I can't pay that much. So I'm only testing my vitamin D to see if it went up, and doing a full hormonal panel to see if I need the NPC. She might be able to give me a prescription for a compounded NPC with the right amount for me. I'll keep you posted! 

I remember reading about compounded creams some months ago, though, and there were reasons for choosing non-prescription NPC over pharmacy compounded ones...I don't remember why, though....anyone know?



#160 Green Gables

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 10:50 AM

Just wanted to add something:

 

Sebum production is under the control of sex hormones (androgens). The most active androgens are testosterone, 5-testosterone (DHT) and 5-androstene-317diol. These hormones and others are made by the sex glands (ovary in females, testis in males) and by the adrenal gland. These glands are in turn under the influence of the pituitary gland, located in the brain.

 

DHT is far more powerful than regular testosterone. DHT also blocks the aromatase enzyme, which prevents testosterone from converting into estrogen.

 

Androgens are made more active by enzymes in the skin and sexual organs. Type 1 5- reductase acts in the skin and Type II 5- reductase acts in the sexual organs. These enzymes convert less active androgens into the active testosterone and 5-testosterone (DHT). These more active androgens stimulate sebaceous gland cells to produce more sebum.

 

The role of progesterone is unclear. Females produce more sebum in the week before their menstrual period when progesterone levels are higher. But progesterone is known to reduce the activity of the enzyme 5-reductase that one might expect to reduce sebum production.


Edited by Green Gables, 16 November 2013 - 10:50 AM.





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