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Autoimmune Paleo & Pufas

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Hi,

I've been around acne.org for quite some time now and still haven't gotten clear. But I have picked up alot of information about diet, hormones, skin care and more. The first culprit I found for my acne was soy & flax. Both are goitrogenic and also contain high amounts omega 6's (linoleic acid) and also phytoestrogens. It has always been hard for me to pinpoint which aspect of soy is so bad for my acne. It may be a collective effort. Regardless, I never eat soy or flax as I breakout severely from both. I have been paleo on & off with some success but never close to what I wanted. Recently I read about a much stricter version of paleo called AI Paleo (autoimmune) which eliminates eggs, nuts, seeds, and nightshades. Thats the gist of it although there are a fewer other things to eliminate. Google it if you are interested. I realized that I ate eggs and nightshades (tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, and any peppers except black pepper) limitlessly through the whole time I have had acne. The whole nightshade aspect seems strange to me though, aren't we supposed to be eating fruits, vegetables, and tubers? Aren't those the healthiest foods? I have always looked at diet with an evolutionary spin. We didn't eat grains because we couldn't process them, or we didn't eat dairy because cow breast milk is meant for the calf only. These are just assumptions though. So I began to investigate why eggs break some people out. Please don't deny this, as many people on acne.org and also paleohacks.com find that eggs contribute to their acne. But that doesn't mean that eggs break everyone out. Personally I believe egg yolks are super nutritious, but theres alot of debate. In my research I found that egg yolks are super high in arachidonic acid (AA) which is inflammatory, also organ meats and chicken fat. I eat a lot of chicken. I again saw online that some people breakout from eating too much chicken. Arachidonic Acid (AA) is derived from Linoleic Acid (LA), an omega 6, in your body. There is a lot of controversy over how much AA is necessary. Some websites claim that it is the source of all inflammation, whereas others say it is completely healthy in normal amounts. It is known that AA converts into many inflammatory metabolites in the body, some that contribute directly to acne like. These include the 4 series leukotrienes (LTB4, LTC4, LTD4, LTE4). There might be more, please research into it yourself. It is also already known that the Standard American Diet (SAD) is overloaded with omega 6’s which are inflammatory. I find that even canola oil can break me out. Recently I ate half a chicken, and a carton of eggs and I have been breaking out.

Let me get to the point. To test my theories, I am going to continue with a paleo diet, limiting grains, dairy, sugar, and legumes but I will also cut out eggs, chicken, avocados, organ meats, nuts, seeds palm oil, olive oil, and anything that could have high amounts of Arachidonic Acid or Linoleic Acid. Before, my paleo diet didn’t focus on this aspect, I still ate a lot of eggs, chicken, avocados, and olive oil every day. Basically I am going to try cutting my Omega 6 intake as much as possible. This may seem extreme to some, dietary changes have always been easy for me since I cook my own food. This leaves me to eating beef, fish, coconut, vegetables, and fruit. To me this seems to run parallel with my evolutionary mindset towards food. The following shows AA and LA content of common foods.

http://wholefoodcatalog.info/nutrient/arachidonic_acid/foods/high/

http://wholefoodcatalog.info/nutrient/linoleic_acid/foods/high/1/

I believe that some intake of Omega 6 is natural, such as that in grass fed meats or wild fish, but maybe our ancestors ate almost none in comparison to what we consume today. I don’t know if there is a name for this diet, but I am ultimately trying to cut my AA and LA intake by a lot while also focusing on other things such as consuming mostly nutrient rich vegetables such as asparagus, sweet potatoes, spinach, lettuce, zucchini and so forth. I don’t want meat or fruit to dominate my diet.

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Soy and flax are both estrogenic. that could be the reason they break you out.

A linoleic acid deficiency in our sebum is actually at the root of skin problems of all sorts. Anything to do with epidermal barrier function, proliferation of cels inflammatory response, etc.

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yea, i've noticed this when i use hemp oil topically. I don't use it internally though. I figure if I limit my PUFAS, than maybe my system will work better overall and correct the local deficiency of linoleic acid

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I also would like to mention that I will be consuming a can of wild alaskan salmon everyday. I read recently that wild salmon is low in arachidonic acid, whereas farmed salmon is extremely high in it. Oh lord!

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hi oner, sounds interesting! would be good if you broke what you wrote down a bit because I found it a bit of an eye sore!

anyway,, where do you get inoleic acid from?

how long have you done this diet for now?

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I'll be following your thread, for sure. Hope youre on to something. While I was paleo, I always suspected eggs and nuts to be troublesome, but could never give it up. I also had very little succes with my acne while on paleo.

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Will be interesting to see your progress.

Do you have any digestive problems?

Just my 2 cents:

I understand the premise of the paleo diet - ie try and eat what you are best adapted to ie what foods your ancestors ate for the longest time.

The problem is that we live in a very cosmopolitan World now and most people are a mix of different ancestries so there is no one paleo diet for everyone. Maybe you can work out your own paleo diet but there is a lot of dogma out there and it all seems to be heavily centered around a Northern latitude perspective.

For everyone but native Southern Americans nightshades are not "Paleo".

Off the top of my head, i think the chickens we get eggs from are from Eastern Asia so how "Paleo" are eggs for many people?

I often hear "not meant to be eaten" but what does it actually mean?

Isn't fruit the only food that has evolved to be eaten?

Milk is actually meant to be eaten. Animals do not want to be eaten neither do plants.

I am not saying elimination diets don't work, i am actually all for them, but things aren't as simple as those who promote all these diets would like to make out.

I actually believe that something i am eating is messing with me i just can't work it out.

I have actually found that elimination diets can help improve my skin but this tends to be when they are so restrictive that they leave me in a negative calorie balance which then lowers my hormones and as hormones are part of the acne equation if you lower them it can hence also lower acne. This doesn't interest me though.

Saying that i hope it works for you.

Good luck.

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^Most paleo dieters just eat real food, which every one should do. they don't try to eat only what their ancestors ate.

One mistaken claim they make is that humans didn't eat grains prior to agriculture. Obviously, they couldn't be as prevalent in the diet as they are today, and they weren't turned into processed crap, but they wouldn't have learned to grow them if they didn't eat them. And if you don't believe they can gather wild grains in significant amounts, I suggest you go to Minnesota and ask an Ojibwe tribe member to show you how they gather wild rice, something so important to their diet they considered it sacred.

The other mistake is that all grains are not equal. With a few true grains, like oats, I think the positive outweighs the negative. Also true of seeds like buckwheat & amaranth. They should be the tip of your food pyramid though, not the base.

Also, btw, there seem to be a lot of newcomers here, and to you I would say that the pale diet for acne or any other health issue is not an experiment. It's common and has been so or years.

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Just wanted to update quickly by saying that eliminating all PUFA's except for those in wild salmon eaten once every 2 days, and eating an autoimmmune paleo diet did not get me clear, or as clear as I was aiming for. I'm still uncertain how each food affects me. I know for certain that kale, broccoli, cabbage, soy, flax, and any vegetable oils will worsen my acne. I believe that eating too much sugar, dairy, and grains can worsen my acne, but the link is not as clear as goitrogens and soy/omega 6's for me. I also don't know at all if legumes, nuts, or nightshades break me out. I definetly feel that my acne is at its best when I eat something close to Autoimmune Paleo emphasizing on an elimination of PUFA's, but it is difficult to have energy when you are low carb. I think that some grain like rice, oats, and quinoa are okay to eat. My quest for clear skin is astronomically frustrating. I feel like I know so much about nutriition and the body but I am so far away from my particular solution. Any advice is helpful even if its on the fringes of science/health. Right now I am currently investigating hypothyroidism by increasing my carb intake and taking a dessicated porcine thyroid supplement multi-dosed throughout the day. I am also supplementing with Retinol or vitamin A from animal sources. There is no soybean oil in my supplement. I am leaning more and more to the fact that diet can't cure my acne. I am speaking only about my particular case. I have tried so many diets with small successes. Anti-candida, paleo, autoimmune paleo, wai, vegetarian, vegan etc... I think there is fundamentally something wrong in my body, like a genetic difference or a chronic condition that results in inflammation. WHAT IS IT!??!

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You definitely need to put your diet into a website like Cron-o-meter to make sure you're getting enough fats, carbs, vitamins etc in your diet. An essential fatty acid deficiency can also cause acne. Soybean oil is actually the main source of Vitamin E in the average American's diet. Vitamin E is critical for healthy skin and digesting fats. You actually need about 40g of fat per day so your body (and skin) can repair itself. Fats (Specifically Omega 6) are actually a vital component of skin cells as the fat you digest is used to make new cells all over the body. A low-fat, low-carb diet will cause a lot of hormone problems as well. I speak from experience having tried a low-fat, low-carb diet and I lost a lot of weight but still didn't cure my acne. I had the same problem with vegetable oils causing inflammation and acne. But avoiding foods is not the answer. You need to correct the problem so you can eat normally. Unfortunately, it's difficult to figure out exactly what the problem is. I believe it's some lipid metabolism problem involving delta 6 desaturase not converting linoleic acid into gamma linolenic acid properly. I offered you my help through PM, but you didn't reply so I'll say no more.

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i don't have much to say about this topic as i eat eggs and don't seem to have issues while eating them.

what i would suggest is seeking out devin and his site clear skin forever. i recall reading a free chapter from his book and it seemed very thorough. he's heavily into nutrition and claims to have been clear for 6 years now.

may you find what you're seeking in regards to your skin health.

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You definitely need to put your diet into a website like Cron-o-meter to make sure you're getting enough fats, carbs, vitamins etc in your diet. An essential fatty acid deficiency can also cause acne. Soybean oil is actually the main source of Vitamin E in the average American's diet. Vitamin E is critical for healthy skin and digesting fats. You actually need about 40g of fat per day so your body (and skin) can repair itself. Fats (Specifically Omega 6) are actually a vital component of skin cells as the fat you digest is used to make new cells all over the body. A low-fat, low-carb diet will cause a lot of hormone problems as well. I speak from experience having tried a low-fat, low-carb diet and I lost a lot of weight but still didn't cure my acne. I had the same problem with vegetable oils causing inflammation and acne. But avoiding foods is not the answer. You need to correct the problem so you can eat normally. Unfortunately, it's difficult to figure out exactly what the problem is. I believe it's some lipid metabolism problem involving delta 6 desaturase not converting linoleic acid into gamma linolenic acid properly. I offered you my help through PM, but you didn't reply so I'll say no more.

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You definitely need to put your diet into a website like Cron-o-meter to make sure you're getting enough fats, carbs, vitamins etc in your diet. An essential fatty acid deficiency can also cause acne. Soybean oil is actually the main source of Vitamin E in the average American's diet. Vitamin E is critical for healthy skin and digesting fats. You actually need about 40g of fat per day so your body (and skin) can repair itself. Fats (Specifically Omega 6) are actually a vital component of skin cells as the fat you digest is used to make new cells all over the body. A low-fat, low-carb diet will cause a lot of hormone problems as well. I speak from experience having tried a low-fat, low-carb diet and I lost a lot of weight but still didn't cure my acne. I had the same problem with vegetable oils causing inflammation and acne. But avoiding foods is not the answer. You need to correct the problem so you can eat normally. Unfortunately, it's difficult to figure out exactly what the problem is. I believe it's some lipid metabolism problem involving delta 6 desaturase not converting linoleic acid into gamma linolenic acid properly. I offered you my help through PM, but you didn't reply so I'll say no more.

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I would just like to mention that there are many reasons that you can end up with low stomach acid, low digestive enzymes, and low DAO.

You may find that supplementing with Betaine HCL, digestive bitters, a broad spectrum enzyme supplement, and/or a DAO supplement, may solve food "intolerances" that only exist because your gut does not have the factors necessary to properly sterilize and absorb food.

I suffered for many years from severe IBS, and the use of a Betaine HCL Pepsin supplement cured years of IBS after only 6-8 months of supplementation.

The way I see it, you can take the defensive approach and not eat anything that possibly raises inflammation. Or you can take the aggressive approach. For example, betaine HCL is the body's natural food sterilizer. DAO is the body's way of degrading histamine in foods. Enzymes (protease, amylase, lactase, cellulase, etc.) help you break down food properly. The positive too, especially about betaine HCL pepsin supplements, is that they stimulate your natural production, so many people do not need to take them forever.

I'd prefer to kill my enemies rather than huddle inside a wall while they try to knock it down. Huddling in the cold castle is the elimination diet approach :)

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Basically you are talking about a low histamine diet. In my opinion, it is the hardest one to follow, but digestive enzymes and what greengables suggested can make it a bit easier. Vitamin C is a natural antihistamine, and if you take it with a meal it can lower histamines. If you are deficient in the DAO enzyme or other digestive enzymes, then your issue is enzyme deficiency not food intolerance. If you have leaky gut, then your issue is leaky gut, not food intolerance (although it can create intolerances).

Histamine reactions do not only happen due to certain histamine releasers in food, but can also be caused by lotions, deodorants, shampoos, environmental factors, etc. There are long lists online you can look at to see if any external factors might contribute to this as well. But it's impossible to avoid all potential histamine triggers....I have a safe diet which contains only a few foods, including sweet potatoes, some vegetables, garlic, basil, parsley, rice milk & rice cereal, some honey, carob, potato chips, gluten-free waffles (only a specific brand with no molasses or yeast), yeast-free & gluten-free pitas, and protein bars. It's a weird combination and it does include grains, but I discovered through trial and error that this is safe for me. When I follow it strictly I get no new acne, but it's not a realistic and sustainable way to live.

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You definitely need to put your diet into a website like Cron-o-meter to make sure you're getting enough fats, carbs, vitamins etc in your diet. An essential fatty acid deficiency can also cause acne. Soybean oil is actually the main source of Vitamin E in the average American's diet. Vitamin E is critical for healthy skin and digesting fats. You actually need about 40g of fat per day so your body (and skin) can repair itself. Fats (Specifically Omega 6) are actually a vital component of skin cells as the fat you digest is used to make new cells all over the body. A low-fat, low-carb diet will cause a lot of hormone problems as well. I speak from experience having tried a low-fat, low-carb diet and I lost a lot of weight but still didn't cure my acne. I had the same problem with vegetable oils causing inflammation and acne. But avoiding foods is not the answer. You need to correct the problem so you can eat normally. Unfortunately, it's difficult to figure out exactly what the problem is. I believe it's some lipid metabolism problem involving delta 6 desaturase not converting linoleic acid into gamma linolenic acid properly. I offered you my help through PM, but you didn't reply so I'll say no more.

Avoiding bad foods is the answer. And things you have an intolerance for, unless it can be addressed by improving digestion for example,or you are talking macro nutrient like fats. you need healthy fats & if you have a problem metabolizing them, you need to address it, not avoid the fats. Good fats. Soybean oil is not a good fat and oner does not need it. That it's a major source of vitamin E in the average diet is a sign of how bad the average diet is.

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Well, I drink soy milk with my cereal if almond is too much $$$ which it generally is. So if its my primary source of E than it is. I just watch my intake as I have experienced the hormonal effects of too much soy in the diet

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You definitely need to put your diet into a website like Cron-o-meter to make sure you're getting enough fats, carbs, vitamins etc in your diet. An essential fatty acid deficiency can also cause acne. Soybean oil is actually the main source of Vitamin E in the average American's diet. Vitamin E is critical for healthy skin and digesting fats. You actually need about 40g of fat per day so your body (and skin) can repair itself. Fats (Specifically Omega 6) are actually a vital component of skin cells as the fat you digest is used to make new cells all over the body. A low-fat, low-carb diet will cause a lot of hormone problems as well. I speak from experience having tried a low-fat, low-carb diet and I lost a lot of weight but still didn't cure my acne. I had the same problem with vegetable oils causing inflammation and acne. But avoiding foods is not the answer. You need to correct the problem so you can eat normally. Unfortunately, it's difficult to figure out exactly what the problem is. I believe it's some lipid metabolism problem involving delta 6 desaturase not converting linoleic acid into gamma linolenic acid properly. I offered you my help through PM, but you didn't reply so I'll say no more.

Avoiding bad foods is the answer. And things you have an intolerance for, unless it can be addressed by improving digestion for example,or you are talking macro nutrient like fats. you need healthy fats & if you have a problem metabolizing them, you need to address it, not avoid the fats. Good fats. Soybean oil is not a good fat and oner does not need it. That it's a major source of vitamin E in the average diet is a sign of how bad the average diet is.

Well, I drink soy milk with my cereal if almond is too much $$$ which it generally is. So if its my primary source of E than it is. I just watch my intake as I have experienced the hormonal effects of too much soy in the diet

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Just drink rice milk with your cereal. Rice is one of the most hypoallergenic foods, very few people are allergic to rice. Problem solved.

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Or you could just not pour milk on cereal.Or you could just send me a weekly check for groceries so that i may enjoy non dry cereal before work.

Thanks.

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He was asking for the best alternative to milk, well, in that case, if he doesn't like dry cereal I think rice is the least harmful. Yes, there might be a grain sensitivity, but rice is not the worst grain to digest, there are far worse. I was going to suggest flax milk as well, but that might be more risky than rice milk. In any case, he can't starve himself. I agree that it's far healthier to cut out all grains, but I personally find it hard to fuction, let alone stand, without a little bit of grains every day. I tried full paleo and it wasn't for me, although it did help my skin.

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He was asking for the best alternative to milk, well, in that case, if he doesn't like dry cereal I think rice is the least harmful. Yes, there might be a grain sensitivity, but rice is not the worst grain to digest, there are far worse. I was going to suggest flax milk as well, but that might be more risky than rice milk. In any case, he can't starve himself. I agree that it's far healthier to cut out all grains, but I personally find it hard to fuction, let alone stand, without a little bit of grains every day. I tried full paleo and it wasn't for me, although it did help my skin.

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