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Low-Fat Primitive Diet Is Working!


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#21 paigems

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:03 PM

Thanks for sharing all this information about your diet. Do you also avoid butter? Or just margarine?



#22 WishClean

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:53 PM

@cvd: Your signature lists a bunch of other things you are taking and using on your skin....do you think those made a difference too? If you are taking all those things in your signature, then it's probably not just the diet that's  cleared you. 



#23 elfantasma

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:34 AM

@cvd: Your signature lists a bunch of other things you are taking and using on your skin....do you think those made a difference too? If you are taking all those things in your signature, then it's probably not just the diet that's  cleared you. 

 

I was thinking exactly the same. 

 

But very interesting! 



#24 maria199

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 12:38 PM

I noticed improvement by altering my diet to a similar one. However i just can't live being afraid of eating some pizza, a piece of cake, an ice cream during summer etc. I started again spironolactone 12 days ago but i definitely don't get the same level of acne if i avoid these things. If i eat something of these the next day there it is, a new pimple or even nodule. If i don't i stay clear but there will always be interruptions and voila, i don't want my face ruined again. I will keep spiro level as low as possible to prevent food caused acne.

I also use propolis solution, clyndamicin and a face wash with salicylic acid but when i eat unhealthy the do nothing.I am going to try thyme tincture and essential oil in the future.


Edited by maria199, 24 September 2013 - 12:42 PM.


#25 paigems

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 09:55 AM

cvd, how long have you been taking spiro?

#26 cvd

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 10:33 AM

Hi Piagems --- I avoid all fats including margarine and butter.  This is based on what cultures eat that don't get acne.  They eat basically no added fats at all.  The only fats they get are from wild fish and game.  Interestingly, I have found that if I cook more soups and stew type foods which is how many of these people eat...then fats are not missed at all.  The starches from tubors (potatoes, yams) and the fats from fish or game meld together in a very satisfying way!  I do add a scant amount of extra-virgin olive oil only because many of the types of foods we eat in our culture require a bit of fat to cook...i.e. an omelet, etc.  FYI --- I have found avocado is a great cheese substitute in many dishes.

 

Hi WishClean --- Yes I am sure that all the mainstream meds I am taking definately help.  The key thing is though that I have been on that regime for several years now but I was still getting very clogged up pores and I was breaking out...not cystic acne like before but still small infected pimples and whiteheads that were very bothersome.  I was thrilled to be breaking out less and am eternally grateful that my skin got better but was still not really clear.  That was what compelled me to really investigate other cultures, especially those that don't get acne, and to take a long hard look at my own diet.  I was eating so well and organically that I just couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong.  The only thing that stood out was my oil intake...lots of margarine, french fries when traveling, and lots of added oils while cooking.  Then I went back to my research...it was like a light bulb went off...I had been fooling myself.  I had to experiment with not adding any oils.  Then I researched how oils are made.  Wow...google it yourself...eye-opening!  Anyway as I've shared above I still use a scant amount...hardly any olive oil for cooking sometimes...hardly at all.  About a week after doing this the inflammation in my skin went down.  Then I got clear.  If I get a whitehead it is teeny tiny and without inflammation at all.  I leave those alone and they disappear in a few days.  And I only get like one a week.  To me this is like magic after decades of acne.  Now my task at the first of the year will be to slowly wean off the oral meds and see if my skin remains clear.  It is possible I may have to continue the spiro as that is a hormonal issue that runs in my family...very sensitive to androgens.  But we'll see...I may be able to lower the dosage.

 

Hi Elfantasma --- As I shared above...yes I am sure that the regime I am on is part of what is helping for sure but I was not getting completely clear on it...and I had diligently followed it for a long time.  And I had done similar regimes throughout my adult life.  Being older I have had the opportunity to try many things in my quest for clear skin.  I am very disciplined so I can test fairly well if something is helping or not.  What is amazing to me about avoiding oils is that I am of the firm belief that this may be a very important key to getting clear for many people.  And it is one that is easily overlooked.  That and avoiding sugars, refined foods and most foods of our modern culture.

 

Hi Maria199 --- I too used to cheat on my diet when I was younger and I paid the price with cystic acne flare-ups the next day.  I have lived with acne for sooooo long that I finally got fed up and decided to be very disciplined with my diet.  Actually this has led to me being very healthy overall, especially compared to others my age.  At 62 I do marathons, hike, kayak, and am generally more like someone much much younger than my age.  And I look younger too.  But that's just me...I got to the point where I just couldn't deal with the outbreaks anymore.



I should have prefaced at the beginning of this topic that I have had chronic resistant cystic acne my whole adult life (40+years).  My revelations probably will be most helpful for people who have tried everything...who are on medications but still break out.  This is an experiment that I am doing.  At the first of next year I will start weaning off my oral meds to see if my theory stands that following the diet of peoples who don't get acne is a key component to getting clear for some of us.  And if my theory does stand then I will be even further amazed since I have tried so many things.  The only thing I never tried was avoiding added oils and this is the crux of this diet...that and no sugary foods, alcohol, or junk foods. 



#27 RobustMist

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:13 AM

I would just like to thank the OP for this thread. I've been researching the Kitavins and it is abosulely amazing. They examined 1200 people in the Kitavin Islands (children, teenagers, adults) and NOT ONE HAD ACNE. Now, it could be genetic, but I think I am going to try to mimic the Kitavin diet and see what happens. Those results are something worth revamping my diet for.



#28 elfantasma

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:47 AM

I would like to try something similar. I'm already healthy but there's space for improvement. 

 

I like these veggies:

red, yellow and green pepper 

cauliflower 

broccoli 

carrot

peas 

salad 

onion

garlic

tomato 

zuchinni 

 

fruit:

apples 

berries 

bananas

 

meat:

pork

beef

chicken

turkey 

 

other:

brown rice

bulgur 

whole grain pasta 

oatmeal 

rice milk / soy milk 

eggs 

 

Any of the following foods that are now allowed in your diet? 

 

Thanks a lot :) 



#29 cvd

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:00 PM

I think everything looks great on your diet.  From what I can tell about the diets of cultures without acne is that they may eat slightly different foods but all of them don't add any oils at all.  They also don't eat sugar.  Some eat scant amounts of honey when found but only once in awhile.  They also don't eat dairy foods.  So I think we have lots of choices of what to eat.  The key is to think how primitive peoples eat.  Would they eat chicken grown in cages?  No.  They'd eat fowl caught in the wild.  So we can try to mimic that by eating free range chicken...same with fish.  Would they eat a lot of meat?  No.  Because it is hard to catch meat.  Etc.



#30 cvd

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 08:52 PM

One of my big tests of this diet went fairly well.  I just got back from vacation where I was exposed to all kinds of foods and stress.  Normally I would have to take an oral antibiotic to stay clear...in addition to all the stuff I usually do to manage my acne.  But this time all I did was follow this low-fat primitive diet as best I could and continued my usual tx regime as listed below.  I got one non-inflamed tiny whitehead (only visible in 10x mirror) and on the last day I got a teeny bit of rosacea (little reddish blotches) but that went away by the next day.  And that may have been due to alot of emotional stress that day.  All I can say is WOW.  I kept waiting for the usual swelling, redness and pimples...but none happened.  I even ate some questionable food at a pub --- tried to be good but the only healthy thing was salmon that was supposedly grilled but actually sauteed and the vegetables tasted greasy.  Interesting how if you don't eat added oils that when you do the food tastes very greasy and heavy.  But other than that I stuck with lots of salads, oatmeal for breakfast, fresh fruit, etc.  I ate a little more meat than usual...chicken and fish...but that was to make up for the fact that it's hard to get high quality whole starches (whole potatoes, rice, etc.) on the road that aren't fried, etc.  I was in the boonies where there was only marginally good foods available.  I brought a lot of my own food and snacked on that which helped.



#31 PlumpCaboose

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:12 AM

Hello cvd

 

Have you experimented with fish oil supplements? Could it be the reason your diet is working is because you're consuming more omega 3 fats from fish than omega 6 fats from cooking oils etc? Just like primitive people who don't get acne eat a lot of wild salmon and roe i.e. fish eggs (especially salmon roe) which are rich in omega 3 fatty acids which are anti-inflammatory. It seems to be all about your omega 3 to 6 ratio. If it's too high then your body is in an inflammatory state. Maybe supplementing with fish oil would allow you to eat more foods without breaking out. Let me know what you think.



#32 cvd

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:21 PM

Hi PlumpCaboose

 

Yes --- I take a very high quality fish oil suppliment.  You're so right about the Omega 3-6 ratio.  I eat lots of wild caught fish...mostly salmon for that reason.  I firmly believe that one of the main reasons I continued to have so much trouble with acne was because I was eating lots of margarine and oils (canola, safflower...) that were giving me more Omega 6 than my body could handle.  I was eating organically and mostly whole foods but I was still getting way too much Omega 6.  Of course this problem with the Omega 3-6 ratio is usually attributed to eating junk foods, etc. but I think it can also happen eating "healthy foods" too...especially if you're eating added oils and have acne prone skin.  The key here is that a person could add all kinds of fish oil and salmon, etc. to their diet but if they're eating too much Omega 6 rich foods then there will still be an imbalance.  This is why returning to a more primitive diet seems to be working...at least for me.  And it actually echoes what the medical establishment says to do...to eat a more low-fat diet, rich in Omega 3 foods and avoid sugars.  But do people really do that?  Not really.  That is so easy to see when dining out.


Edited by cvd, 07 October 2013 - 10:46 AM.


#33 PlumpCaboose

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:12 AM

I think I have the exact same acne problem as you. I used to eat a lot of processed food and it's caused chronic inflammation in my body. I was wondering if you could help me out by answering these questions. I would very much appreciate it.

 

1. What fish oil brand do you use? I've ordered "Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega" 3 which is apparently very high quality. Could you tell me what you think of that brand? I've heard some brands cause cystic acne which I really don't want.

 

2. How long did it take to start to see improvements from taking the supplements? Because fat is stored in your body, right? Would the fastest way to get rid of the fat be to burn it through exercise? Or would that make it worse? Because I've been eating a very healthy diet for 2 months yet I feel like my body is still in an inflammed state because I'm not consuming any omega 3 (I can't find wild caught salmon, only farmed which is apparently high in omega 6).

 

3. You say you take zinc picolinate in your signature. Does it help at all? In the book "The Dietary Cure for Acne" (which you should read if you haven't read it), it said to take zinc gluconate instead. Are there any differences between the two and do you think zinc is necessary or should I just take fish oil supplements?

 

4. Does drinking green tea help? It's supposed to reduce pro-inflammatory omega 6s in the body. Also would the caffeine in it affect acne? Would it be better to drink decaf green tea?

 

Thanks for your help and congratulations on curing your acne!


Edited by PlumpCaboose, 01 October 2013 - 02:25 AM.


#34 cvd

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:52 AM

Hi PlumpCaboose

 

I haven't cured my acne...only managed it.  I'd say having the kind of acne I have is chronic, based on how long I've battled it (decades) and everything I've done to try to control it.  The real test of this diet will be when I wean off the oral meds.  Will I stay clear then?  For right now this is only a test of how well this diet works in addition to a pretty intense mainstream med regime for chronic resistant cystic acne!

 

I use the same fish oil you are - Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega 3.  It was recommended to me by a nutritionist as being the most consistent and best source of fish oil.

 

I saw only a little improvement from fish oil suppliments alone.  I saw significant improvement when I stopped using added oils (canola, margarine, etc.) and was using fish oil suppliments and that was apparent within a month.  That is what proved to me how important the omega ratio is and how there is something to following a more primitive diet.  If you follow a primitive diet then you will see both weight loss and improvement in inflammation.  Are you eating any margarines (even healthy ones), coconut oils, or other oils?  This was my mistake.  Olive oil is okay in very small amounts because it is a crushed oil and closest to a primitive diet versus a solvent oil like the others.

 

I take zinc picolinate because it was recommended by my nutritionist as being the best for absorption.

 

Some people love green tea but I don't.  I drink Traditionals roasted dandelion tea for digestion and flavor!



 


Edited by cvd, 04 October 2013 - 12:44 PM.


#35 cvd

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:07 AM

I'm continuing to do very well on this diet.  All I can say is it's amazing to me...especially after so many years of trying to figure out what will work.  And my skin continues to improve.  It's not oily at all...and no clogged pores that I can see.  No inflammation or redness.  And I don't miss the added oil.  I've switched to eating organic artisan french bread with olives and rosemary which doesn't have added oils (...just flour, water salt, olives and rosemary) and love it.  I don't miss eating french fries when traveling...they were hard to digest anyway...tasty but too greasy.  Instead I eat salads with a squeeze of fresh lemon and feel great later.  I've lost about 5 pounds which is an added bonus.  I find I can eat a ton of food and not gain weight.  Not eating added oils makes you choose better foods since most all junk food or convenience food has added oils and usually the bad ones.  You rarely find a good snack food made with 100% olive oil...and even if I did I would not eat it because I am also trying to not add much olive oil.  I just use a teeny amount for cooking.



#36 elfantasma

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:44 PM

I'm glad you're doing well on your diet! I'm going to start something similar tomorrow. I'll try some kind of paleo-diet made by Lore Cordain. He writes about it in his book called "The Dietary cure for Acne". He talks a lot about the primitive diet as well and the cultures not affected by acne. It's about avoiding dairy, sugar, nuts, alcohol, caffeine, lectins and wheat.  



#37 cvd

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:55 PM

I have read about Lore Cordain's thesis and agree with much of it.  The only thing I don't agree with is the often made comparison of the high-protein Paleo diet as being similar to these culture's diets.  Actually acne-free cultures eat relatively low amounts of protein. 

 

The cultures he speaks of eat mainly high starch foods such as tubers, lots of greens and fruits and a small amount of wild caught flesh in the form of fish, insects, or small animals.  And sometimes the tubers are ground up into flour-like foods that are baked over hot coals or fires or on warmed rocks.  This says to me that a grain might be okay as long as some of it is whole and minimally processed...meaning that not much is added...only water or a little salt.  What does this sound like?  Artisan course breads like the ones mediterranean and African cultures have eaten for tens of thousands of years!  However, this is not the usual breads or cereal products seen in our stores today that are full of added fats, sugars, salt, etc.

 

The exception to this are traditional Maasai who eat only free-range flesh based foods such as raw milk and fresh drawn blood.  And traditional Eskimo that eat fresh wild-caught marine and other hunted animal foods.  They do not eat protein that has been cured, etc.  And they do not eat tubers or starchy foods.  Can most people do that for long in our culture?  Not really...and if you look at the Paleo sites you will read about eating bacon, butter, etc. which in essence are processed foods.  Perhaps the reason Maasai and Eskimo can do this is because their food source is so immediate...eaten raw or minimally cooked...so it is satisfying and with less health problems.  Versus what we can get which is store-bought flesh foods that are many days if not weeks away from their source and often full of added hormones, etc.

 

Personally I would rather follow the diets of the Ache hunter gatherers of Paraguay and the Kitavan Islanders.  "Tubers, fruit, fish, and coconut represent the dietary mainstays in Kitava".  Note: this is not coconut oil...it is fresh coconut.  "The intake of dairy products, alcohol, coffee, and tea was close to nil, and that of oils, margarine, cereals, sugar, and salt was negligible."

 

"The Aché diet contains wild, foraged foods, locally cultivated foods, and Western foods obtained from external sources. By energy, their diet consists of 69% cultigens, 17% wild game, 8% Western foods, 3% domestic meat, and 3% collected forest products. The cultigens consist mainly of sweet manioc, followed by peanuts, maize, and rice"  http://archderm.jama...rticleid=479093

 

Note that the Ache diet has only 17% wild game...and 69% cultigens (tubers, rice, etc).  This is not a Paleo diet.  But the diets of these primitive cultures are sometimes sited here and on Paleo sites as one of the reasons for eating a high protein diet.  An erroneous conclusion!

 

One of the things I have concluded after much research is that even well-intentioned medical researchers can sometimes go to extremes when promoting their particular diet as being the healthiest.  Dr McDougall, whose work I admire and mostly agree with, has said it is often easier for people to make a dramatic change versus having the discipline to follow a more exacting diet.  So eventhough siting the primitive tribes above (Ache and Kitavan) as having the best anti-acne health-promoting diets --- he goes on to say that ALL flesh foods should be avoided.  This is not the Ache or Kitavan diet.  His diet is a plant-based diet with no flesh foods and no added oils.  Yes this is good...if you can do it.  I couldn't for very long.  I was starved and lost 10 pounds in the first two weeks (too much on my already slender frame).  My body needed a little protein like fresh-caught fish and free-range fowl.  I am not going to grind up tubers into flour and grill them on a hot rock.  So I eat rice and sometimes some organic locally made artisan bread or I make it myself.  My body is feeling so good on this diet and I still firmly believe that it is mainly the added man-made oils, sugars, and dairy products that are the main culprits.

 

Hope this helps.  Sorry for the long message!  I find all of this fascinating and probably should have studied nutrition and ancient cultures versus social work (ha!)



#38 Robertitoo

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:23 PM

High carb high/full raw vegan active lifestyle is the next step..and you're GOLD!



#39 bamboomama

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 05:33 PM

that's great that you're doing this and that you're seeing its effects.

 

i recall desiring to eat like people did many years ago sometime last year. this was after realizing that packaged bread did nothing for me (regardless of its source).

 

that thought led me to open up to various cultures cuisines (african and indian mostly). i consume whole foods - sweet potatoes, plantains, quinoa, millet, amaranth, mung beans, wild salmon, wild sardines, pasture-raised eggs, red palm oil, ghee, coconut oil, olive oil, leafy greens and vitamin c rich fruits.


Edited by bamboomama, 09 October 2013 - 05:36 PM.


#40 cvd

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 08:03 PM

I'm continuing to do great on this diet...I'm soooo thankful and I feel great.  Curious thing is I have more energy and sleep better too.  Switching to not eating additional oil has probably made the most difference in my skin --- followed by avoiding dairy and sugars.  And eating whole foods really clinches it.  Although I do eat a homemade bread I make from scratch which is stoneground hard red wheat flour (...has more protein and is more like what our ancestors ate...), water, and kosher salt with rosemary and kalamata olives.  I don't eat it everyday though.  I used to think I had a problem with wheat but it was actually the added fats, dairy and sugars in most wheat products. 






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