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Low-Fat Primitive Diet Is Working!

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And actually the perfect ratio is more like 4:1 (omega 6 to omega 3) that the Japanese eat and that metabolizes to an almost 1:1 ratio of HUFA's in cell membranes (wikipedia). This is important to consider when thinking about omega ratios --- you don't want competition within cell membranes. This means not eating 1:1 because that doesn't factor in what happens within the body. If you did always eat 1:1 then the ratio would be off within the body and cause other problems. Or this is what researchers think. No one knows absolutely for sure but I find it interesting that mankind ate a certain way for thousands and thousands of years and even in prehistoric times that included grinding roots and grains for flour. However this was a precious expenditure of energy and wild grains were not easy to get so the amount was far less than we eat today. It is the same thing with oil...seeds and fruit (olive) might have been manually pressed but very little was obtained making oil an extremely precious commodity. This kept people healthy as long as there was an abundance of food.

A.P Simopoulos, The importance of the ratio of omega-6/omega-3 essential fatty acids, Biomedicine & Pharmacotherapy, Volume 56, Issue 8, October 2002, Pages 365-379, ISSN 0753-3322, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0753-3322(02)00253-6

"Human beings evolved on a diet in which the ratio of omega-6/omega-3 EFA was about 1, whereas in the Western diets, the ratio is 15/1 to 16.7/1. Such evidence comes from studies on the evolutionary aspects of diet, modern day hunter-gatherers, and traditional diets. Agribusiness and modern agriculture have led to decreases in omega-3 fatty acids and increases in omega-6 fatty acids. Such practices have led to excessive amounts of omega-6 fatty acids, upsetting the balance that was characteristic during evolution when our genes were programmed to respond to diet and other aspects of the environment.[/size]"

A.P. Simopoulos, Evolutionary aspects of diet, the omega-6/omega-3 ratio and genetic variation: nutritional implications for chronic diseases, Biomedicine & Pharmacotherapy, Volume 60, Issue 9, November 2006, Pages 502-507, ISSN 0753-3322, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.biopha.2006.07.080.

"Anthropological and epidemiological studies and studies at the molecular level indicate that human beings evolved on a diet with a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 essential fatty acids (EFA) of ~1 whereas in Western diets the ratio is 15/1 to 16.7/1. A high omega-6/omega-3 ratio, as is found in today's Western diets, promotes the pathogenesis of many diseases, including cardiovascular disease, cancer, osteoporosis, and inflammatory and autoimmune diseases, whereas increased levels of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) (a lower omega-6/omega-3 ratio), exert suppressive effects."[/size]

Gian Luigi Russo, Dietary n-6 and n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids: From biochemistry to clinical implications in cardiovascular prevention, Biochemical Pharmacology, Volume 77, Issue 6, 15 March 2009, Pages 937-946, ISSN 0006-2952, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.bcp.2008.10.020.

"Several authors tended to explain the EFA/PUFA effects in terms of a balance between total n − 6 and n − 3 FAs, rather than the absolute amount of each single molecule. The importance of the [/size]n − 6/[/size]n − 3 ratio has been evoked not only in the pathogenesis of cardiovascular diseases, but also in cancer, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. In the most simplistic interpretation, a very high n − 6/n − 3 ratio is considered detrimental for human health, while a value as much as possibly close to 1 is considered protective against degenerative pathologies"

Jing X. Kang, The Importance of Omega–6/Omega–3 Fatty Acid Ratio in Cell Function, The Gene Transfer of Omega–3 Fatty Acid Desaturase. Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass., USA

"...the ratio of omega–6 to omega–3 essential fatty acids in today’s Western diets is around 15–20:1, indicating that modern diets are deficient in omega–3 fatty acids but too high in omega–6 fatty acids compared with the diet on which humans evolved and their genetic patterns were established (omega–6/omega–3 was 1:1)"

It was the advent of industrialization that turned everything on its head and made previously rare foods (oils, sugars, soft flours) so commonplace and cheap that they replaced the wild whole foods mankind ate and which our bodies need to stay healthy...and less inflammed.

Agreed!

I honestly believe you'd have to add up all foods eaten in a week to determine true omega ratios...not just in one food or one meal...and then the effect would be more calculable. I know for me that I can eat some higher omega 6 foods (oatmeal, some soy milk in my tea, a small helping of pasta once a week, etc.) because all the other foods I eat are lower on omega 6 and I eat some rather high omega 3 foods such as salmon (often), chia seeds (daily) and tons of fresh vegetables that probably balance things out. If I find myself eating bread everyday or foods swimming in solven-based cheap seed oils (canola, safflower, etc.) when I am traveling then I can count on a flare-up but it is very mild because I return to eating my diet as soon as I can.

This is not how digestion works. When you consume one meal, the Omega-6 and Omega-3 fatty acids don't wait around for the rest of the week to be metabolized. They are metabolized right after you eat the meal. The Omega-6 and Omega-3 fatty acids are first converted by the same enzyme delta-6-desaturase, then by elongase 5, then delta-5-desaturase, then elongase 2 acts on them twice, and then delta-6-desaturase, and then finally they enter beta-oxidation. So Omega-6 and Omega-3 will compete for the same exact set of enzymes right after consumption and if there is an imbalance then one omega fatty acid will outcompete the other for metabolism. If someone eats an Omega-6 enriched meal, then shortly afterwards their body will preferentially convert the the Omega-6 fatty acids into a number of inflammatory molecules like arachidonic acid.

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Yes - I have read studies that propose the evolutionary ratio was 1:1 --- which is derived from observing a couple of modern day traditional hunter-gatherer societies (...there aren't many left..). I read some other studies and will try to find them again that propose the ratio was possibly closer to the traditional Japanese ratio of 4:1 (omega 6 to 3) which according to other studies is still an ideal to strive for. And then there are recent discoveries showing prehistoric man was grinding flours, etc. and that would possibly point more to the 4:1 ratio. Perhaps it depended on where people lived...even in prehistoric times. What we know for sure is that starting hundreds of thousands of years ago man was eating grains and that would have changed the ratio. Of course the whole paleo argument is that we should return to eating like caveman (no grains, etc.) to achieve a more 1:1 ratio...but as I shared above, there may have been other groups of cavemen who ate ground up grains and roots and were less of the hunters we imagine. Perhaps they were still healthy because they lived near water and fished and the fish kept them healthy.

Now the real question is should we try for the 1:1 ratio? I don't know if it's really possible to achieve since we don't actually live that way and our sources of food can't always be relied on. I prefer to concentrate on eating the way people do who don't get acne...that is my focus. And not eating oils goes a very long way in lowering omega 6. My body feels better eating some grains eventhough they have omega 6. And although there are some acne-free societies that don't eat grains, others do but predominately in whole form rather than flours. I think man is very adaptable...to a point. And what it comes down to is experimenting to find what your individual tipping point is.


Diagnosis - Cystic acne and papulopustular rosacea
Status - 98% clear

Morning - Panoxyl 10% Cleanser (BP), Cleocin-T, DML Lotion, Physician's Formula SPF 30 Mineral Pressed Powder, Spiro 50 mg (weaning off)

Night - Panoxyl 4% Cleanser, DML Lotion

Monthly - Professional microdermabrasion

Diet - Whole high nutrient unprocessed foods. Avoid oils, dairy, sugars, bread, nuts, alcohol, caffeine, spicy and fermented foods.

Supplements - Opti l-zinc, Citrical + D3, selenium, D

Daily - Walk, breath deeply, meditate and do yoga daily, wear hats for sun protection


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Yes - I have read studies that propose the evolutionary ratio was 1:1 --- which is derived from observing a couple of modern day traditional hunter-gatherer societies (...there aren't many left..). I read some other studies and will try to find them again that propose the ratio was possibly closer to the traditional Japanese ratio of 4:1 (omega 6 to 3) which according to other studies is still an ideal to strive for. And then there are recent discoveries showing prehistoric man was grinding flours, etc. and that would possibly point more to the 4:1 ratio.

And eating nuts and seeds. And animals that consume seeds & other plants high in omega 6. I really don't think that the 1:1 ratio is possible for most people on the planet. Now or ever. Not once they left the coasts. The ratio in wild ruminants is more like 2:1 or worse.

There's evidence of bands moving around the Texas gulf coast in coincidence with the pecan harvest. Obviously these pecans were an important part of their diet. And this is an area in which food would always be plentiful but especially in the winter months that would make life hard elsewhere. It's a funnel for migrating birds and nesting area for tons of more northern birds.


Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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Perhaps it depended on where people lived...even in prehistoric times. What we know for sure is that starting hundreds of thousands of years ago man was eating grains and that would have changed the ratio.

Absolutely I would agree with this. Without access to fish, I do not think a 1 to 1 ratio is possible.

Of course the whole paleo argument is that we should return to eating like caveman (no grains, etc.) to achieve a more 1:1 ratio

This is why I do not understand the Paleo diet. They often talk about being conscientious of Omegas, but then they allow you to eat all the meat and eggs and often do not regard where it came from. They say you can eat plenty of seeds and nuts and they allow avocados and plenty of olive oil. But then they say only eat a little bit of fruit. It does not makes sense to me.

First of all, avocado, eggs, nuts, olive oil, and meats alike are packed with Omega-6 and have scant amounts of Omega-3's. Second, what hypothetical caveman had access to all the meat and eggs they wanted? And when they did eat meat, they weren't buying grain-fed cattle, they were killing wild animals. The difference between grain and grass-fed is tremendous and often lost on many Paleo dieters.

Now the real question is should we try for the 1:1 ratio? I don't know if it's really possible to achieve since we don't actually live that way and our sources of food can't always be relied on.

My hypothesis is that acne is a dietary issue. It is a working hypothesis and it still has some unknowns that need to be explained (like why do I eat crappy sometimes and not breakout). I have been experimenting with various diets in the last several months, and in the interest of testing my hypothesis I should really try for a 1:1 ratio.

A baked potato, a 1/2 fillet of atlantic wild caught salmon cooked in an ounce of coconut oil which is then poured on the baked potato, and a dry kale/tomato salad comes out to a ratio of 1:5 Omega-6:Omega-3. So that meal alone has 5 times more Omega-3's than Omega-6. So to answer your question I think that a 1:1 ratio really is easily possible as long as you have a good supply of wild-caught fish.

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My skin is doing fantastic and I'm so thrilled. I weaned off Doxy last month so I am moving towards my goal of getting off all oral meds. Will wean off spiro next. Ultimately I just want to use the absolute minimum in meds...whatever works along with diet.

Once every 5 weeks or so I might get a pin sized blemish so small I can only see it in my 3x mirror and it goes away in a day. I'm carefully following my diet and have almost totally gone off all processed oils, including olive oil. I've perfected ways to cook just about anything without oil. And I'm absolutely positive that avoiding oils is one of the main keys to clear skin...that and avoiding dairy, sugars, alcohol, and junk foods.

A young coworker who has terrible acne started following a green smoothie whole foods diet that also avoids all oils and within two weeks her inflamed skin calmed down and her cystic acne is clearing up...very dramatically. And she is not using any meds.

As I stated above, the only reason I am using meds is that is where I was at when I started this diet...and I will strive for just a diet solution but only if I can stay clear.


Diagnosis - Cystic acne and papulopustular rosacea
Status - 98% clear

Morning - Panoxyl 10% Cleanser (BP), Cleocin-T, DML Lotion, Physician's Formula SPF 30 Mineral Pressed Powder, Spiro 50 mg (weaning off)

Night - Panoxyl 4% Cleanser, DML Lotion

Monthly - Professional microdermabrasion

Diet - Whole high nutrient unprocessed foods. Avoid oils, dairy, sugars, bread, nuts, alcohol, caffeine, spicy and fermented foods.

Supplements - Opti l-zinc, Citrical + D3, selenium, D

Daily - Walk, breath deeply, meditate and do yoga daily, wear hats for sun protection


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Yay! I am happy to hear that your face is still doing well ^_^ Im beginning to try to avoid oils as well starting today after reading your story :)

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Meh. I'm 100% clear and I eat an absolute ton of pastured animal fat, fatty fish, butter, cod liver oil, olive oil, coconut oil, avocado oil, etc. I don't eat much grain. I would be extremely cautious about vilifying fats. IMO, it was probably the rancid, processed oils you were eating causing all the problems. Processed oils still set me off, too. I can't eat margarine or hydrogenated oils. Canola oil is also really horrible for me, too. I'm pretty sure all the heat processing and sitting on the shelf make it inedible and toxic.

I do still eat a ton of vegetables, too, including raw vegetable juice in the morning to get my body going. Whole, unprocessed foods, as natural as you can get them are definitely the way to go!


Suffered from acne as a young adult that went into remission when put on hormonal birth control. Went off the HBC around age 22 and the acne returned with a vengeance (along with a host of other hormonal complaints). 100% clear with a modified diet that excludes dairy, sugars, grains, citrus and cured meats and emphasizes whole food-based nutrition from both plant and animal sources, most notably organ meats like liver and juiced whole vegetables. I have included a recipe for the most helpful juice I have come up with for skin complaints. I drink it every day, and it is invaluable for acne due to the large amounts of vitamin A (carotenoids) from both the carrots and beets. It also helps improve your coloring if you are very fair, giving you a pinkish, more radiant look (not orange. Don't worry!).

Magic Juice

In a juicer, combine:

5-6 carrots

1 medium beet

2-3 stalks of celery

1 small apple (Green is preferred. Omit if you are very sugar-sensitive)

1 small (1inch) piece of ginger (optional, but good for digestion)

This makes a variable amount of juice depending on the size of the vegetables you use.

Drink this throughout the morning until it's gone. Store in the fridge not longer than one day.

Having perfectly clear skin on my wedding day was worth all the headache and effort of figuring out how diet affects acne!

10253792_10152330899888950_7455033623381


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Everyone is different. I agree with above that it is probably processed oils that cause the most inflammation due to being so denatured.

However I personally react strongly to all dairy foods and butter is the most concentrated after cheese. I'm very sensitive to hormones and dairy has so much natural hormone in it. I can't eat butter. All oils cause me to break out, including supposedly good ones like EVOO and coconut oils. It doesn't seem to matter what kind of oil it is or how natural it is. Maybe it is because oils are so concentrated. That said, I can eat foods that have oil in their natural whole state such as avocado or salmon.

I find it interesting that the kind of diet my skin stays clear on is what primitive people generally ate...whole foods that were not overly processed.

I'm okay with grains but I usually eat more vegetable starches like potatoes and yams. I like rice and do okay on it.


Diagnosis - Cystic acne and papulopustular rosacea
Status - 98% clear

Morning - Panoxyl 10% Cleanser (BP), Cleocin-T, DML Lotion, Physician's Formula SPF 30 Mineral Pressed Powder, Spiro 50 mg (weaning off)

Night - Panoxyl 4% Cleanser, DML Lotion

Monthly - Professional microdermabrasion

Diet - Whole high nutrient unprocessed foods. Avoid oils, dairy, sugars, bread, nuts, alcohol, caffeine, spicy and fermented foods.

Supplements - Opti l-zinc, Citrical + D3, selenium, D

Daily - Walk, breath deeply, meditate and do yoga daily, wear hats for sun protection


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Everyone is different. I agree with above that it is probably processed oils that cause the most inflammation due to being so denatured.

However I personally react strongly to all dairy foods and butter is the most concentrated after cheese. I'm very sensitive to hormones and dairy has so much natural hormone in it. I can't eat butter. All oils cause me to break out, including supposedly good ones like EVOO and coconut oils. It doesn't seem to matter what kind of oil it is or how natural it is. Maybe it is because oils are so concentrated. That said, I can eat foods that have oil in their natural whole state such as avocado or salmon.

I find it interesting that the kind of diet my skin stays clear on is what primitive people generally ate...whole foods that were not overly processed.

I'm okay with grains but I usually eat more vegetable starches like potatoes and yams. I like rice and do okay on it.

Then it might be you personally having a sensitivity to oils, as opposed to this being something everyone should do. It's rather unusual to be very sensitive to all fats. I would never tell the average person to avoid all oils, since most people are only sensitive to the rancid, processed kind. I wouldn't say that your diet is truly "primitive" since primitive people did not have agriculture and that would get rid of a large component of your current thing which is grains, and most indigenous people also consume a large amount of fat whenever they can get it. The inuit, for example, ate a diet comprised of animal organs, and animal blubber/fat. They gave the muscle meat to the dogs because they considered it waste LOL


Suffered from acne as a young adult that went into remission when put on hormonal birth control. Went off the HBC around age 22 and the acne returned with a vengeance (along with a host of other hormonal complaints). 100% clear with a modified diet that excludes dairy, sugars, grains, citrus and cured meats and emphasizes whole food-based nutrition from both plant and animal sources, most notably organ meats like liver and juiced whole vegetables. I have included a recipe for the most helpful juice I have come up with for skin complaints. I drink it every day, and it is invaluable for acne due to the large amounts of vitamin A (carotenoids) from both the carrots and beets. It also helps improve your coloring if you are very fair, giving you a pinkish, more radiant look (not orange. Don't worry!).

Magic Juice

In a juicer, combine:

5-6 carrots

1 medium beet

2-3 stalks of celery

1 small apple (Green is preferred. Omit if you are very sugar-sensitive)

1 small (1inch) piece of ginger (optional, but good for digestion)

This makes a variable amount of juice depending on the size of the vegetables you use.

Drink this throughout the morning until it's gone. Store in the fridge not longer than one day.

Having perfectly clear skin on my wedding day was worth all the headache and effort of figuring out how diet affects acne!

10253792_10152330899888950_7455033623381


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The Inuit and other Arctic peoples survive primarily on animal foods. But if you look at research you will note that these people currently live shorter lives than the general population (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-003-x/2008001/article/10463-eng.htm) 68 years on average. These stats are for current Inuit populations that now have access to other foods. If you dig into research on ancient Eskimo people you will find an average lifespan of less than 40 and the people struggled with worms and other infectious diseases. It is hard to separate out the very early influences of outside cultures (tobacco, alcohol, etc.) since records only started being kept early in the 20th century. But even if (and this is a big "if") their lifespan was longer back before any contact with other cultures then you have to figure in that the kind of meat they ate was totally different than any of us can get today. It was wild caught fish and whales unaffected by toxins and feeding on vitamin rich arctic ocean waters. Ancient Eskimo people were also extremely active and subjected to harsh conditions...much more than any of us are today. This may have had a protective factor as far as eating primarily meat and blubber. Question is...can more sedentary people who eat store-bought meats and a paleo diet with dairy butter expect the same results? I doubt it.

And note...they did not eat oils. They ate whole blubber. Who of us wants to eat raw blubber? Perhaps there is some protective factor when eating whole fats...not pressed, not ground up, not processed. But who really eats that? The closest we might come to it might be eating whole fat that is on our meat. (Interestingly I can eat fat that is on meat with no problems)

I personally think people delude themselves into thinking that consuming oils as we do today is okay. As I have shared before, the most ancient of oils is olive oil. If you can get a true first cold-pressed, virgin organic olive oil then you are coming as close as modern man can come to oil that was consumed by ancient people. These same people were also eating grains by the way as the processing of olive oil occurred as man became more agriculturally based (back thousands and thousands of years ago) and grew olive tree orchards. But remember it was very sparingly consumed. Just read a common book, the bible, for examples of how precious oil was...it was given as gifts to kings.

s far as grains not being part of ancient people's diets...that just isn't true. A very famous example is the frozen ice-age man where partially digested grains and seeds were found in his gut. There is every indication that cave dwelling people ground up grains (note all the grinding stones found in archaeological sites), seeds and tubers into pastes, pulses and flour. Yes - consumption of flour would have been significantly less than today since the energy required to gather and grind it would have meant it was just a part of the diet.

If you look up research on how our teeth are formed it is notable that we only have a few pointed teeth for tearing meat but a greater number of molars designed for masticating fruits, vegetables, grains and seeds. True carnivores have mostly pointed teeth because they tear up flesh. We have had teeth like this since the beginning of man. We never had a mouth of teeth like carnivores...never.

We do have some teeth designed for eating flesh and that would deny the premise that man was not designed to eat meat (vegans). We have shorter digestive systems, etc. designed for a varied diet. Man does not eat grasses...we eat the fruit of the grasses. Many of our so-called vegetables are actually fruits of the plant (i.e. tomato).

I am sharing my personal experience and conclusions from research studies and papers. It is up to others to make up their own minds. I personally think and recommend that any person prone to chronic resistant adult acne try avoiding processed oils and see what happens. That is all. The general population can seemingly eat oils just fine.

But here is an observation to consider --- Not to brag but I'm older (63) and yet look far far younger than my age. I am exceedingly fit and do marathons (5'4" and 115 pounds). I have more energy than most others 10 years younger. I have no aches or pains. When I look at colleagues and friends who eat lots of oils, eat what they like and drink some alcohol (ie glass of wine with dinner) --- all of them are overweight, have aches and pains, and look their age. Several of them have rosacea. Yes, they might not have adult acne like I used to struggle with but that is what I think led them to continue eating like they did in their 20's. They think nothing of drowning their foods in olive oil thinking that it is good for them. (Note --- even in Italy foods are not drowned in oil).

I really think our culture has gotten confused over this. But I challenge anyone to just look at the people they know and the foods those people eat. Yes --- I know that some will say but I see all kinds of people eating junk with clear skin. Well, just look at their bodies...I'm talking about people who have done this for years (30's+). They may not have acne but they have weight problems, or arthritis or stomach issues. Ask. Look. Then decide how best to eat.


Diagnosis - Cystic acne and papulopustular rosacea
Status - 98% clear

Morning - Panoxyl 10% Cleanser (BP), Cleocin-T, DML Lotion, Physician's Formula SPF 30 Mineral Pressed Powder, Spiro 50 mg (weaning off)

Night - Panoxyl 4% Cleanser, DML Lotion

Monthly - Professional microdermabrasion

Diet - Whole high nutrient unprocessed foods. Avoid oils, dairy, sugars, bread, nuts, alcohol, caffeine, spicy and fermented foods.

Supplements - Opti l-zinc, Citrical + D3, selenium, D

Daily - Walk, breath deeply, meditate and do yoga daily, wear hats for sun protection


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The Inuit and other Arctic peoples survive primarily on animal foods. But if you look at research you will note that these people currently live shorter lives than the general population (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-003-x/2008001/article/10463-eng.htm) 68 years on average. These stats are for current Inuit populations that now have access to other foods. If you dig into research on ancient Eskimo people you will find an average lifespan of less than 40 and the people struggled with worms and other infectious diseases. It is hard to separate out the very early influences of outside cultures (tobacco, alcohol, etc.) since records only started being kept early in the 20th century. But even if (and this is a big "if") their lifespan was longer back before any contact with other cultures then you have to figure in that the kind of meat they ate was totally different than any of us can get today. It was wild caught fish and whales unaffected by toxins and feeding on vitamin rich arctic ocean waters. Ancient Eskimo people were also extremely active and subjected to harsh conditions...much more than any of us are today. This may have had a protective factor as far as eating primarily meat and blubber. Question is...can more sedentary people who eat store-bought meats and a paleo diet with dairy butter expect the same results? I doubt it.

And note...they did not eat oils. They ate whole blubber. Who of us wants to eat raw blubber? Perhaps there is some protective factor when eating whole fats...not pressed, not ground up, not processed. But who really eats that? The closest we might come to it might be eating whole fat that is on our meat. (Interestingly I can eat fat that is on meat with no problems)

I personally think people delude themselves into thinking that consuming oils as we do today is okay. As I have shared before, the most ancient of oils is olive oil. If you can get a true first cold-pressed, virgin organic olive oil then you are coming as close as modern man can come to oil that was consumed by ancient people. These same people were also eating grains by the way as the processing of olive oil occurred as man became more agriculturally based (back thousands and thousands of years ago) and grew olive tree orchards. But remember it was very sparingly consumed. Just read a common book, the bible, for examples of how precious oil was...it was given as gifts to kings.

s far as grains not being part of ancient people's diets...that just isn't true. A very famous example is the frozen ice-age man where partially digested grains and seeds were found in his gut. There is every indication that cave dwelling people ground up grains (note all the grinding stones found in archaeological sites), seeds and tubers into pastes, pulses and flour. Yes - consumption of flour would have been significantly less than today since the energy required to gather and grind it would have meant it was just a part of the diet.

If you look up research on how our teeth are formed it is notable that we only have a few pointed teeth for tearing meat but a greater number of molars designed for masticating fruits, vegetables, grains and seeds. True carnivores have mostly pointed teeth because they tear up flesh. We have had teeth like this since the beginning of man. We never had a mouth of teeth like carnivores...never.

We do have some teeth designed for eating flesh and that would deny the premise that man was not designed to eat meat (vegans). We have shorter digestive systems, etc. designed for a varied diet. Man does not eat grasses...we eat the fruit of the grasses. Many of our so-called vegetables are actually fruits of the plant (i.e. tomato).

I am sharing my personal experience and conclusions from research studies and papers. It is up to others to make up their own minds. I personally think and recommend that any person prone to chronic resistant adult acne try avoiding processed oils and see what happens. That is all. The general population can seemingly eat oils just fine.

But here is an observation to consider --- Not to brag but I'm older (63) and yet look far far younger than my age. I am exceedingly fit and do marathons (5'4" and 115 pounds). I have more energy than most others 10 years younger. I have no aches or pains. When I look at colleagues and friends who eat lots of oils, eat what they like and drink some alcohol (ie glass of wine with dinner) --- all of them are overweight, have aches and pains, and look their age. Several of them have rosacea. Yes, they might not have adult acne like I used to struggle with but that is what I think led them to continue eating like they did in their 20's. They think nothing of drowning their foods in olive oil thinking that it is good for them. (Note --- even in Italy foods are not drowned in oil).

I really think our culture has gotten confused over this. But I challenge anyone to just look at the people they know and the foods those people eat. Yes --- I know that some will say but I see all kinds of people eating junk with clear skin. Well, just look at their bodies...I'm talking about people who have done this for years (30's+). They may not have acne but they have weight problems, or arthritis or stomach issues. Ask. Look. Then decide how best to eat.

Cooking food also is a large part of human evolution that can't be overlooked. We have actually evolved to eat cooked food, which is why we can't digest large amounts of cellulose in the same way that a ruminant animal can. The Inuit and other indigenous populations in the US have shorter lifespans now because they went from eating healthful traditional diets to eating denatured foods in a very short timespan. Native Americans were fed lard, white flour, and salt on reservations as their food "ration". It's no wonder they have health problems now. Additionally, alcohol and tobacco play a large part as these addictive substances were never part of their evolutionary lexicon. This is why Native Americans and the Inuit are very prone to alcoholism. They did not evolve to have a tolerance to alcohol. I wouldn't consider their original indigenous diet to be part of why their lifespan is so short, rather that their health has been destroyed by denatured food and the marginalization of their culture. Bottom line is, humans have evolved to be omnivorous and to also eat a fair-high amount of fat from their diet. Pemmican, for example is a Native American staple comprised of tallow, ground dried meat, and sometimes dried berries. Of course, nobody eats pemmican anymore. I'm glad something has worked for you, but this is not a cause to tell everyone to avoid all added oils... In fact, I've experienced an improvement in my skin texture when adding coconut oil and fermented cod liver oil into my diet. These are cold-processed and never heated, of course.

There has to be something at work with your digestive system to cause such a negative reaction to all oils. Though I would be at a loss to tell you what it could possibly be, especially if you're experimenting with only cold-processed, organic fare. I honestly have no idea.

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Suffered from acne as a young adult that went into remission when put on hormonal birth control. Went off the HBC around age 22 and the acne returned with a vengeance (along with a host of other hormonal complaints). 100% clear with a modified diet that excludes dairy, sugars, grains, citrus and cured meats and emphasizes whole food-based nutrition from both plant and animal sources, most notably organ meats like liver and juiced whole vegetables. I have included a recipe for the most helpful juice I have come up with for skin complaints. I drink it every day, and it is invaluable for acne due to the large amounts of vitamin A (carotenoids) from both the carrots and beets. It also helps improve your coloring if you are very fair, giving you a pinkish, more radiant look (not orange. Don't worry!).

Magic Juice

In a juicer, combine:

5-6 carrots

1 medium beet

2-3 stalks of celery

1 small apple (Green is preferred. Omit if you are very sugar-sensitive)

1 small (1inch) piece of ginger (optional, but good for digestion)

This makes a variable amount of juice depending on the size of the vegetables you use.

Drink this throughout the morning until it's gone. Store in the fridge not longer than one day.

Having perfectly clear skin on my wedding day was worth all the headache and effort of figuring out how diet affects acne!

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CVD, thanks for all the info, it's greatly appreciated. Informing people of what cleared your skin is always useful, especially when you aren't obligated to and are devoting your free time to help others.

I'm glad something has worked for you, but this is not a cause to tell everyone to avoid all added oils...

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CVD, thanks for all the info, it's greatly appreciated. Informing people of what cleared your skin is always useful, especially when you aren't obligated to and are devoting your free time to help others.

Comments like this only serve to stifle the flow of information. She made a thread about what steps she took to clear her skin, nothing more, nothing less.

This is why most of us are here. No one has a definitive answer for everyone, as acne encompasses so many different causes. You're entitled to your opinion but I find it very counterproductive to chime in on an informative thread to tell the OP she shouldn't be telling anyone about her experiences.

Even if she ate nothing but eggs for two weeks straight, if it cleared her skin I'd like to know about it.

Discully was adding valuable comments to the discussion. Too many people here panic over every food and avoid anything they ever heard that causes anyone to break out until they aren't eating anything and even developing eating disorders. Then they come back here angry to tell us about how these crazy extreme dieters we are all promoting don't work and are dangerous.

Several important points I want to try to clarify for readers.

1) CVD isn't eating low fat, but avoiding added fats. Quality of available commercial oils is definitely an issue. There's going to be very little in the average grocery store,or restaurant meal that you want to consume. Please don't avoid fats and fill up on carbs instead. The low fat diet movement is at the root of why every one is so riddled with disease today. Eat real food. If you eat dairy, make it whole dairy. Eat the whole egg.

2) people with problems with good fats and get acne as a result have been very few and far between here. And I've been reading and posting here for a long time now. But there have been some. If you have issues metabolizing fats, there are many nutrients and habits you can do to improve this. I list some in the good things thread. Lots have people have reported breaking out from Hydrogenated fats, though. Shortening, crisco, margarine. Avoiding them means avoiding nearly all commercial baked and fried foods.

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Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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Thank you. Yes, I would be the first person to say that what I share here is based on PERSONAL experience and observation, in addition to reading about different cultures and research studies. The diet I think may be helpful for people with chronic acne to try is a whole foods, nutrient rich diet that avoids processed foods (i.e. processed oils, etc.). This diet includes foods that have oils naturally such as meats, fish, eggs, etc. rather than oils processed from seeds. Eating this way provides the body with sufficient oil without adding additional concentrated processed oils. It is working for me, along with eating whole nutrient rich foods. The diet is not restrictive except for avoiding dairy, sugars, and alcohol. It includes foods people have eaten for thousands of years.

The key here is availability of certain foods and how concentrated they are. For instance sugar, honey, etc. was not readily available before industrialization. It was considered luxury food and for most people eaten sparingly when it could be afforded or gathered. Is that true now? Sugar is a very concentrated food...all sugars are...that is why they give us bursts of energy. Processed oils are very concentrated. Most oils were unheard of before industrialization and the ability to easily process seeds. Even coconut oil. I just think that our bodies, especially those of us prone to acne (inflammatory disease) don't do as well with highly processed, concentrated foods. We do better with foods eaten in their most natural state, while still being digestible.

All I am trying to say is there is nothing to be lost with trying an experiment of avoiding processed foods (especially oils), eating wholesome foods in their natural state, and avoiding dairy and sugars. Try it. See what happens.

On a personal note I went to the coast with some girlfriends this weekend --- intelligent successful professional women. I got to see what they ate for 4 days. They ate lots of chips, breads with butter, wine, sweet foods for breakfast, lots of salad dressings, processed luncheon meats with mayo and cheeses on bread for lunch, coffee with sugars, etc (typical western meals). They are all very overweight, one is obese. They all complained of aches and pains, arthritis and stomach problems. Two of them had some rosacea. They kidded me because I ate oatmeal for breakfast, drank herbal tea, ate lots of vegetables and salad, and avoided all the junk foods and alcohol. I ate the good foods we had with relish (eggs, organic free range bacon, chicken, vegetables, salad, etc.).

My skin was clear the whole time. My digestion was great. My energy was great. In fact I got tired of sitting around all day and went outside to do yoga in the sunshine. And after leaving I went out to the beach before driving home and hiked briskly for two hours --- felt wonderful.

What I am trying to say in my posts is that there is a way to help the body deal with inflammation. Acne is partly an inflammatory disease and if you are prone to acne then you will be helped if you try eating an anti-inflammatory diet (whole unprocessed foods) and doing things that promote calm in the body.


Diagnosis - Cystic acne and papulopustular rosacea
Status - 98% clear

Morning - Panoxyl 10% Cleanser (BP), Cleocin-T, DML Lotion, Physician's Formula SPF 30 Mineral Pressed Powder, Spiro 50 mg (weaning off)

Night - Panoxyl 4% Cleanser, DML Lotion

Monthly - Professional microdermabrasion

Diet - Whole high nutrient unprocessed foods. Avoid oils, dairy, sugars, bread, nuts, alcohol, caffeine, spicy and fermented foods.

Supplements - Opti l-zinc, Citrical + D3, selenium, D

Daily - Walk, breath deeply, meditate and do yoga daily, wear hats for sun protection


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