alternativista

Help Your Skin Function - Stop Impairing It!

32 posts in this topic

A sensible discussion & compilation of facts about the acid mantle, lipid barrier, retinoid production and more. See also this thread about avoiding chemicals & using cheaper, healthier, simpler, DIY treatments.  http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/313174-reducing-exposure-to-chemicals-recipes-alternatives-etc/

 

Your skin isn't dead leather & your sebum isn't dead grease. They are ecosystems for enzymes and other substances that play vital roles in skin function. Your sebum contains living cells that produce these substances. Substances that protect and exfoliate. That inhibit DHT production which is a major factor in oily skin, acne and male pattern baldness. Substances that inhibit melanin, reducing hyperpigmentation, Substances that produce retinoids & ceramides.

All those things you pay big money for in moisturizers & creams are made by your skin!  Or would be if you would stop impairing its ability to function. Those ceramides & other lipids are also stripped away by cleansers. Emulsifying agents are even in lotions & creams you think are helping your skin. They are what keep the watery & oily ingredients mixed together so you don't have to shake the bottle before using, because that would be too much to ask. 

Stripping your skin of all these things makes it hard for skin to function and causes the problems we then try to solve with more products. Soaps, cleansers and topicals prevent your skin from functioning.

 

Intro/definitions

 

Acid Mantle - a layer of sebum and sweat that, among other things, makes the surface of your skin slightly acidic which inhibits the overgrowth of harmful microbes. In addition, the various enzymes involved in normal cell desquammation (exfoliation) need an acidic environment to function. Even store bought BHA and AHA topicals need to be the correct PH to function.

 

Soaps are alkaline and strip it away. It can take hours to recover during which time your skin is vulnerable to microbes and cells don't exfoliate freely without clogging pores. Tap water in most areas is also slightly alkaline, but your skin should recover from the tap water fairly quickly.

 

Sebum/lipid permeability barrier

 

- Normal sebum contains enzymes that inhibit the formation of DHT, the form of testosterone that aggravates acne. It also contains enzymes that dissolve the desmosomes that bind your skin cells together so they can exfoliate normally.

 

Related thread on Sebum and Linoleic Acid:

 

Sebum Quality

 

Linoleic acid is a major component of normal sebum. A deficiency in linoleic acid has been found to be involved in many skin issues including acne, excema, atopic dermatis, just plain sensitive easily irritated skin, etc. This applies to all mammals. Where linoleic acid is deficient, oleic acid is used. This produces sebum that is greasy looking and sticky which causes skin cells to be clump together and clog pores.

 

Sphingolipids, ceramides TBC

 

 

P. Acnes TBC

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Evidence that washing away your sebum stimulates more production of sebum.

Or at least, the abstract of this peer reviewed paper says so. the full text is available here: http://www.nature.co...df/5610517a.pdf I haven't read it yet.

 

 

Quote

Quote

The regulation of epidermal lipid synthesis by permeability barrier requirements.

A major function of the skin is to prevent the loss of fluids. The barrier to fluid loss resides in the intercellular lipids (primarily sterols, fatty acids, and sphingolipids) of the stratum corneum. The epidermis is a very active site of lipid synthesis and when the permeability barrier is disrupted by topical solvents or detergents a marked stimulation of sterol, fatty acid, and sphingolipid synthesis occurs. Essential fatty acid deficient mice, with a chronic disturbance in barrier function, also have an increase in epidermal lipid synthesis. When the defect in barrier function is artificially corrected by occlusion with a water vapor impermeable membrane the increase in epidermal lipid synthesis is prevented, suggesting that water flux may be a regulatory factor. The activity of the key rate limiting enzyme in cholesterol synthesis, HMG CoA reductase is increased following barrier disruption due to both an increased quantity of enzyme and an increase in activation state. Similarly, the activity of serine palmitoyl transferase, the rate limiting enzyme in sphingolipid synthesis is also increased following barrier disruption. Occlusion prevents the increase in HMG CoA reductase and serine palmitoyl transferase activity. When the increase in epidermal lipid synthesis is inhibited by occlusion the characteristic rapid return of stratum corneum lipids and recovery of barrier function is prevented. Moreover, when epidermal cholesterol synthesis is inhibited by lovastatin, an inhibitor of HMG CoA reductase, the rate of recovery of barrier structure and function is delayed. Similarly, B chloroalanine, an inhibitor of serine palmitoyl transferase and sphingolipid synthesis, also impairs barrier recovery. Thus, disruption of the barrier stimulates epidermal lipid synthesis which provides the lipids necessary for the repair of the barrier. The signals that initiate and coordinate this response are yet to be defined, but the understanding of this process may allow for pharmacological interventions that will specifically disrupt the barrier and allow for the transcutaneous delivery of drugs.

Edited by alternativista
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Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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Good things for Oily Skin and Sebum Quality
-Acne prone skin (as well as other problem prone skin) is deficient in linoleic acid. And this makes the differenct between sebum that protects and makes your skin glow versus sebum that looks greasy and is sticky and clogs pores. As it's unlikely most people don't get enough in their diets (usually too much) there must be something that either impairs getting it into skin/sebum or we metabolize it too fast for it to be used. Or the quality of the high omega 6 PUFA oil is poor and rancid.

Topical application has been shown to be helpful. Grape seed and safflower oils are both over 70% linoleic acid. See this lengthy thread all about the subject in which I try to figure out why our skin/sebum is deficient and find evidence that topical application is helpful: http://www.acne.org/...pical-solution/ Another thread with studies such as one where low levels of linoleic acid coincide with acne vulgaris: http://www.acne.org/...ost__p__3168178

-Blood Sugar Stabilizing Diet habits - Excess insulin stimulates the hormones that cause oily skin. And a low GI diet improves the fatty acid composition of sebum according to a recent study.
-Consuming nutrients that inhibit DHT
-Avoiding dairy which contains a precursor to DHT
-Topical application of things that inhibit DHT - Green Tea, mint tea, licorice extract, linoleic acid, zinc (try mineral makeup & sunscreens) ...


Good fats needed for Sebum Quality:
-Consume more Omega 3 EFA sources (like fish, Omega 3 rich vegetables) and less Omega 6 EFA sources (grains and grain-fed animal products). Also avoid bad fats from fried foods, hydrogenated fats like margarine and crisco.
-Linoleic acid a good Omega 6 that your body uses to make Gamma Linoleic acid and an important component in healthy sebum. Diets high in sugar, alcohol, or trans fats from processed foods, as well as smoking, pollution, stress, aging, viral infections, and other illnesses such as diabetes inhibit the body's ability to make GLA. There are GLA supplements. (but linoleic acid may suppress thyroid hormone function, so don't go overboard)
-Mono-unsaturated fats - Olive oil, avocados...

-Blood sugar stabilizing diet habits- Moderate to low GL meals, no binge eating, etc. Affects body's ability to make GLA (among many other things like hormone balance, inflammation, etc.)

Don't strip away skin oils with harsh cleansers. Chemicals and enzymes in sebum play a role in normal desquamation (exfoliation) of skin cells. It can't do that if you wash it all away. Also, your skin needs to be slightly acidic for these enzymes to function. Most cleansers are alkaline.

Quite a bit of info on nutrients involved in quality sebum and many other factors to do with acne formation in this article:http://www.iinr.org/...eports/ACNE.PDF

Edited by alternativista
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Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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Thread filled with research:

Linoleic acid is a vital component in normal sebum that does what it is supposed to: Protect the skin. Skin/sebum in people (and animals) prone to acne and other skin problems have been found to be deficient in linoleic Acid. Sebum deficient in linoleic acid is hard and sticky and clogs pores. It looks greasy and has fewer protective and anti-inflammatory properties.

Key points:

  • Acne and other problem prone skin (in people and animals) are lacking in linoleic acid.
    Linoleic acid is a component in the ceramides that make skin strong and impermeable and thus less easily ruptured and less sensitive to irritations.
  • This deficiency can be changed with topical application.
  • Grape seed and Safflower oil are over 70% linoleic acid.
  • Linoleic Acid inhibits the enzymes that convert Testosterone to DHT. Both types. So it can help with hirsutism, hairloss and acne.
  • Linoleic Acid is anti-inflammatory and protects the skin from UV damage.
  • Linoleic Acid inhibits melatonin and thus fades hyperpigmentation.
  • Linoleic acid is anti-microbial, as in anti P. Acnes blamed for acne formation.
  • Linoleic acid deficiency causes an increase in interluekin -1a which is a factor inflammatory response.
  • Tretinoin (Retin A & the like) alters the lipid profile improving the linoleic acid composition.
  • Linoleic Acid improves the peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPAR) and retinoid X receptor (RXR) situation that regulates sebum production and hyperkeritinization/differenciation (and is what accutane affects)
  • Increase formation of Lamellar granules that produce the enzymes involved in normal exfoliation. They also form the armor that makes your skin strong. Acne prone skin has been found to contain fewer lamellar granules.
  • Thyroid hormone affects lipid profile. One way that perhaps both hypo and hyperthyroid conditions affect acne.
  • We don't necessarily have a dietary or systemic deficiency in linoleic acid. Just in the sebum and thus a topical application is the best course of action. This tendency is genetic.

Examples of skin problems affected by a deficiency in linoleic acid include acne, eczema, psoriasis, keratosis pilares, hypersensitivity to allergens, and dry itchy sensitive skin of all types--aka dermatitis.

Edited by alternativista
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Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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Edited by alternativista

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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"Grape seed and Safflower oil are over 70% linoleic acid."

I don't like using things topically... what about taking this internally?

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"Grape seed and Safflower oil are over 70% linoleic acid."

I don't like using things topically... what about taking this internally?

You can try. The researchers didn't believe that the issue was a systemic or dietary deficiency, but perhaps it's about quality. As these PUFA fats go rancid easily and most people are consuming their PUFAs in the form of likely rancid cooking/frying oils and crap processed grains, roasted nuts and seeds, etc. I give it to my dog as he likes it, while hating when I apply it to his skin. And I kind of think it does his itchy sensitive skin more good when he ingests it.


Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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Great information Alternavista!!! smile.png I've learned some excellent new info, especially re Linoleic acid...thanks for posting this...I'm going to link to this thread too....btw, I've exceeded my "like" quota for the day - will return to "like" the posts though....cheers smile.png

Edited by aquasea

  • Everyone has a doctor in him or her; we just have to help it in its work. The natural healing force within each one of us is the greatest force in getting well.
  • Our food should be our medicine.
  • Walking is man's best medicine.
  • As to diseases make a habit of two things - to help, or at least, to do no harm.
  • Prayer indeed is good, but while calling on [God], a man should himself lend a hand.

All quotes by ~ Hippocrates, "Father of Modern Medicine"


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Love this. I don't remember the last time i let water from the tap touch my face. I don't wash it. Period. And it looks the best it's looked since i was a child.

(Granted if you've been using chemicals and washes and immediately stop...you are going to go through a transition period)


80%-20% Alkaline forming vs Acid forming Diet

`Organic~
I don't consume:
*Dairy
*Whole grains
*Refined sugars
*Table salt
*Vegetable oils
*Processed/Fast foods
*Genetically Modified Foods (GMOs)
As well as the pesticides/herbicides that come with them

My philosophy: Less externally, more internally

Even taking long hot showers in chemically treated tap water is too harsh for acne prone skin

(And that's without a face wash)

This site is absolutely loaded with info on curing acne internally


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Love this. I don't remember the last time i let water from the tap touch my face. I don't wash it. Period. And it looks the best it's looked since i was a child.

(Granted if you've been using chemicals and washes and immediately stop...you are going to go through a transition period)

u use spring water or something else?


Itchy red raised skin - dermatitis??

huge pores

indented scar

oils used for cooking

inflamed whiteheads & clogged pores

my balanced diet chart and skincare routine(medications taken & products used now)


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Love this. I don't remember the last time i let water from the tap touch my face. I don't wash it. Period. And it looks the best it's looked since i was a child.

(Granted if you've been using chemicals and washes and immediately stop...you are going to go through a transition period)

u use spring water or something else?

I actually don't wash my face anymore. With any type of water. But i have nothing against spring water of distilled water when used to gently rinse the face


80%-20% Alkaline forming vs Acid forming Diet

`Organic~
I don't consume:
*Dairy
*Whole grains
*Refined sugars
*Table salt
*Vegetable oils
*Processed/Fast foods
*Genetically Modified Foods (GMOs)
As well as the pesticides/herbicides that come with them

My philosophy: Less externally, more internally

Even taking long hot showers in chemically treated tap water is too harsh for acne prone skin

(And that's without a face wash)

This site is absolutely loaded with info on curing acne internally


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Love this. I don't remember the last time i let water from the tap touch my face. I don't wash it. Period. And it looks the best it's looked since i was a child.

(Granted if you've been using chemicals and washes and immediately stop...you are going to go through a transition period)

u use spring water or something else?

I actually don't wash my face anymore. With any type of water. But i have nothing against spring water of distilled water when used to gently rinse the face

complete caveman approach?


Itchy red raised skin - dermatitis??

huge pores

indented scar

oils used for cooking

inflamed whiteheads & clogged pores

my balanced diet chart and skincare routine(medications taken & products used now)


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Lot's of interesting information here. I wish someone could design a set diet and regimen that adhered to this post that we could all follow and possibly see results.

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complete caveman approach?

Yeah, it really is freeing to not have to wake up and go through a half hour long face routine anymore. Also when i shave, i use the trimmer on the back of the electric shaver. It leaves a sandpaper like texture, but it never causes irritation or ingrown hairs which i am extremely prone to getting.


80%-20% Alkaline forming vs Acid forming Diet

`Organic~
I don't consume:
*Dairy
*Whole grains
*Refined sugars
*Table salt
*Vegetable oils
*Processed/Fast foods
*Genetically Modified Foods (GMOs)
As well as the pesticides/herbicides that come with them

My philosophy: Less externally, more internally

Even taking long hot showers in chemically treated tap water is too harsh for acne prone skin

(And that's without a face wash)

This site is absolutely loaded with info on curing acne internally


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You say retinoids affect lipids in sebum; is this in a positive way? Are retinoids recommended or not?

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Maybe this is why oil cleansing worked for me using grapeseed and sunflower oils together. Never did bother with olive oil or anything else. Had no idea about lenoleic acid. Thanks for the info!

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Mild/Moderate all-over acne from adolescence into adulthood.

Currently: CLEAR! At least 99% most of the time since using more natural and non-irritating products.

I may get a couple pimples/tiny whiteheads every now and then but I can deal with that from where I've been. i finally have clear days!

Currently combating red marks, overall facial redness, and damage possibly from all of the acne products I have tried.

I have tried: tons of SA and commercial face washes, tons of more natural face washes and topicals, BP, ProActive, Differin, Benzaclin, Oil Cleansing Method

Burt's Bees Sensitive Cleanser (PM only)

Brightening Toner - water, witch hazel, lemon juice, grapeseed/sunflower oils, tea tree oil (I buy ingredients and mix myself)

Desert Essence Daily Essential Facial Moisturizer


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Get your vitamin D, ideally from the sun.

It had previously been shown that defects in the immune system interfere with the skin's ability to produce a peptide called cathelicidin, which is protective against microbial invasion. In many skin diseases, including eczema, a deficiency of cathelicidin correlates with increased infection.

Study participants (14 with atopic dermatitis and 14 without) were all given 4000 IUs of oral Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) per day for 21 days. Skin lesions were biopsied before and after the 21-day period. The researchers found that oral vitamin D use by the patients appeared to correct the skin's defect in cathelicidin.


Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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I had a very long post in response to someone above and it disappeared when I opened a new tab to look up something. Note to self, never make anything but short responses from the ipad.

Anyway, the reason I came to this thread. Have you heard that Brad Pitt doesn't use soap because of its aging effects and environmental harm? I tried googling it, but only found stupid Hollywood & gossip article.

Lot's of interesting information here. I wish someone could design a set diet and regimen that adhered to this post that we could all follow and possibly see results.

There's no one diet, only basics that apply to all. And I have described it, in the good things thread.


Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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I think i may have washed my hair for the last time. I last washed my hair Saturday a week and a half ago. And I have fine hair that always looked greasy by the end of the day, every day. Or at leat it did for most of my life from junior high to when I changed my diet & cleared my skin. After that I gradually began to wash every other day, and then every third day although it often wasn't very nice tat third day. This brings us to a few months ago & my no poo story.

So, somewhere, I reported that I was ditching shampoo and trying the baking soda wash, vinegar rinse method. I did that for several monts. It worked fine at first. But then the hair at te back of my head would feel waxy & stiff. Sebum is really mostly wax, not oil, btw. I think my problem had to ddo with the vinegar rinse. Vinegar cuts grease and I think maybe it loosened up & broke down oil that remained after the baking soda. So I experimented with different methods and using conditioner, etc. and began going nearly a whole week without washing, then usually had an event for which I felt I needed clean hair. And the ends were dry and unmanageable.

I did use the 'dry poo' method with cornstarch to absorb oil about every other day though. (Mix with a little cocoa powder for dark hair) did tat for a couple of weeks.

Then, that Saturday,, I needed to look my best so used a little shampoo to get of the waxy ness, then went the whole week in which it started to get greasy and I would want to wash it, but I managed with the cornstarch and went more than a week and somehow, my hair just became nice, clean, shiny & manageable. And it's been like that ever since.. It's like it gets bad before it gets better. I know I've seen other people writing about this phenomena occurring such as on a camping trip or something. I remember one girl saying something about covering her head with a bandana once her hair got gross on a canoe trip, then days later when she removed it expecting it to be truly gross, discovered her hair looked wonderful.

A boars hair brush is an important tool to distribute oils throughout your hair. Also note that shampoo didn't become a commercial product until like the thirties. People didn't used to wash their hair very often at all.

I also started washing the dog with water only every couple of weeks and that seems to work well. Reduced the dog odor well enough without drying his skin or impairing his skin barrier function. Because he has problem skin.

I plan to try water only, I don't know how often. Once a month I color my hair which involves Lots of rinsing. And conditioner.

Edited by alternativista

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45316. Discussion about mixing up a toner with aloe. Links to many calculators to help you ma ke a 4% or whatever solution. I wasn't aware it was this easy. I've never bothered with measurements. Now I guess I'll give it a try and make replicable formulas.

A good paper on aloe Vera

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763764/

Post in which someone tests oil production after washing & not washing and claims it proves what you do topically does not affect oil production. He did this by not washing at all for about 10 days. Then washing for about 10 days.. Using strips daily or throughout the day in both periods to measure sebum production. He found that while it fluctuated in both periods, the average was roughly the same.

HOWEVER, I believe, as others in the thread pointed out, all he proved as that your skin tries to restore itself to what it 'feels' is normal sebum-wise regardless of how many times you wash it off. And so you are doing more harm than good trying to strip it away with cleansers that are also altering the PH balance and removing substances important to skin function. And did you know that if you wash with soap within a day of sun exposure (could be up to 48 hours) you wash away the vitamin D before it gets absorbed into your bloodstream.

And I believe a topical application of a high linoleic acid oil will result in sebum with a better skin protecting, non pore clogging composition.

In the thread, board member LabGirl, who works in a facility that makes and/or tests skin treatments, had this to say:

Soap is anything but moisturizing. Not only is it great at removing sebum from skin, it can also strip the skin's natural epidermal lipids (like cerimides and free sphingolipids, and the lipids of the lipid bilayers in between the layers of corneocytes) that make up the skin's water barrier, and hold the cells of the stratum corneum together, which leads to transepidermal water loss.

Soap's alkalinity is also a problem. The pH of skin is usually around 5 (4.2 5.6 actually), which is slightly acidic. The skin's lipid bilayers are made up of mostly phospholipids, which have a phosphatylcholine head and two linoleic acid tails. Also free fatty acids make up a decent chunk of other epidermal lipids. In an alkaline medium the carboxyl groups on a fatty acids loose their hydrogen ions leaving behind a very electronegative oxygen ion (O-), which can easily bond with a metal ion that happens to be floating around in the medium from the soap or just from the tap water.....forming a metal salt of a fatty acid (a soap), which can easily be rinsed away with water. Soap removes way more skin lipids than a gentle non-soap cleanser would....Another downside to cleansing with soap.....at higher pH's the lipid bilayers become stiff and rigid, casuing measureable swelling in the stratum corneum.....

Alcohol is also great at defatting the skin, and is usually used for this purpose in most research that requires defatting of the skin for whatever reason...

And then she describes her participation in a similar study at her company. And while the measured sebum amount seemed to be the same, she perceived that her skin was less oily during the non-washing phase. Could this be because her sebum was of a better consistency & thus performing as sebum should rather than feeling & looking like a layer of heavy grease?

And then she says:

It's not even sebum that moisturizes the skin, it's the skin's lipid barrier and other natural moisturizing factors that prevent water loss.....there is even some evidance that sebum (actually the by products of sebum's bacterial degradation, namely unsaturated fatty acids) may actually damage the skin's water barrier, by causing abnormal keritinization and desquamation of cells of the stratum corenum....

The skin's barrier is actually maintained by layers of overlapping corneocytes, with alternating lipid bilayers and water layers in between. The barrier is reinforced by other epidermal lipids, like ceramides, and humectants that draw water into the skin. Epidermal lipids are not sebum. They are something entirely different.....however washing the skin removes both types of lipids, which can damage the skin's barrier function.....

i plan to find more sources

Edited by alternativista

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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Just made a post about my new No shampoo experiments along with my old no soap regimin in my blog. http://dietforclearskin.blogspot.com/2013/12/brad-pitt-has-stopped-using-soap.html

NPR story 'Engineering A Good Hair Day'

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102067582

The No-Poo livejournal community http://no-poo.livejournal.com/


Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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I added selfies of me & my unwashed hair to my blog post. http://dietforclearskin.blogspot.com/2013/12/brad-pitt-has-stopped-using-soap.html

1 person likes this

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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Hey alternativista I was just wondering if you would recommend taking this form of the Linoleic acid heres the link: http://www.amazon.com/Conjugated-Linoleic-Acid-Gel-Caps/dp/B0075BFN8Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389067191&sr=8-1&keywords=linoleic+acid just because im still in school and I dont think i want to chance it by using a new facial product such as the oil wash you mentioned. My diet is pretty onpoint In terms of eating healthy i will occasionally have something as white bread when i cant avoid it or something slightly sweet. Anyway just wondering because all your topics really interest me and especially about this one. Thanks!

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Emulsifiers impair skin barrier function by removing the lipids & other protective substances made by your skin. In your skin. Not just the surface. And emulsifiers aren't just in cleansers. They are used in creams & lotions to keep the ingredients blended together.

"Meanwhile, the number of indications and publications with critical statements regarding the use of emulsifiers in skin care products is steadily increasing. The reason for it are findings that emulsifiers can cause modifications in the horny layer:

  • They manipulate the integrity of the barrier layers which are part of the horny layers and which consist of very sensitive, so-called lipid bilayers.
  • Emulsifiers will not loose their emulsifying properties in the skin. There are exceptions: low doses of soaps which are transformed into acids like palmitic and stearic acids due to the acid milieu of the skin. These acids also are naturally present in the skin.
  • The lasting emulsifying capacity of the emulsifiers penetrated into the skin causes an increased transport of skin-own protective substances out of the skin especially when the skin comes in contact with water (shower).

For this reason, conventional creams frequently are not tolerated by consumers with skin problems as e.g. neurodermitics and psoriatics."

http://www.dermaviduals.com/english/publications/ingredients/emulsifiers-looking-for-alternatives.html - (German company. The translations to English are a little off at times)

Then I looked up palmitic acid to see what it said & found this in an article about plant oils:

"The evaluation of fatty oils which are also used as lipid phase in creams specifically depends on which types of fatty acids are bonded to glycerin to which percentage (fatty oils = triglycerides: three fatty acids are bonded to one glycerin molecule). In the skin the fatty acids are hydrolyzed by enzymatic reaction of the triglycerides and then used as a substrate for various other processes.
Thus the palmitic acid of the avocado and wheat germ oil has an excellent protective effect as it is a component of the skin barrier.
Linoleic acid, a double unsaturated essential ω-6 fatty acid is chemically bonded to the ceramide I which also is an important barrier component. Larger quantities of linoleic acid can be found in grape seed, safflower and soybean oil. Just like the α-linolenic acid, a ω-3 fatty acid of linseed and rose hip oil; and γ-linolenic acid, a ω-6 fatty acid of evening primrose and borage oil, the linoleic acid is transformed into an anti-inflammatory hydroxy fatty acid (13-HODE, 13-HOTrEg, 13-HOTrE) by 15-lipoxygenase of the skin. Beyond that, γ-linolenic acid is an essential substance for those atopics who are not able to synthesize the acid from linoleic acid due to an enzyme defect."

Edited by alternativista

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


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So, this study is about how the necessary lipids are stimulated after the your skin is harmed. Which would of course be a part of healing. But is this an example of how are medical and pharmaceutical researchers think? What we need is to damage ourselves in order stimulate healing?

Note the bolded lines. I'll sum up.

1) cleansers harm your epidermal barrier.

2) sebum production is stimulated as a result of harming your epidermal barrier. So it's true. The more you wash....

3) Occlusion retards recovery. Petrolatum in most skin care products is occlusive.

The regulation of epidermal lipid synthesis by permeability barrier requirements.

Source

Metabolism Section (111F), VA Medical Center, San Francisco, CA 94121.

Abstract

A major function of the skin is to prevent the loss of fluids. The barrier to fluid loss resides in the intercellular lipids (primarily sterols, fatty acids, and sphingolipids) of the stratum corneum. The epidermis is a very active site of lipid synthesis and when the permeability barrier is disrupted by topical solvents or detergents a marked stimulation of sterol, fatty acid, and sphingolipid synthesis occurs. Essential fatty acid deficient mice, with a chronic disturbance in barrier function, also have an increase in epidermal lipid synthesis. When the defect in barrier function is artificially corrected by occlusion with a water vapor impermeable membrane the increase in epidermal lipid synthesis is prevented, suggesting that water flux may be a regulatory factor. The activity of the key rate limiting enzyme in cholesterol synthesis, HMG CoA reductase is increased following barrier disruption due to both an increased quantity of enzyme and an increase in activation state. Similarly, the activity of serine palmitoyl transferase, the rate limiting enzyme in sphingolipid synthesis is also increased following barrier disruption. Occlusion prevents the increase in HMG CoA reductase and serine palmitoyl transferase activity. When the increase in epidermal lipid synthesis is inhibited by occlusion the characteristic rapid return of stratum corneum lipids and recovery of barrier function is prevented. Moreover, when epidermal cholesterol synthesis is inhibited by lovastatin, an inhibitor of HMG CoA reductase, the rate of recovery of barrier structure and function is delayed. Similarly, B chloroalanine, an inhibitor of serine palmitoyl transferase and sphingolipid synthesis, also impairs barrier recovery. Thus, disruption of the barrier stimulates epidermal lipid synthesis which provides the lipids necessary for the repair of the barrier. The signals that initiate and coordinate this response are yet to be defined, but the understanding of this process may allow for pharmacological interventions that will specifically disrupt the barrier and allow for the transcutaneous delivery of drugs.

Notice the last bolded line? An example of how the statin drugs they now want everyone to take as a 'prevantative' will harm your skin and accelerate aging. And your epidermis isn't the only tissue it does this to. And that isn't the only important enzyme blocked or the only way statins harm you. It also blocks your ability to turn cholesterol into hormones and vitamin D, and your ability to make coenzyme Q10.

-----------------------------

Still not using shampoo or conditioner, btw. ( and I used to use tons) And for the past several weeks, I've just washed with water only once a week. The waxiness I complained about is mostly gone and it seems washing my brush often is the key to that. My hair isn't as nice and smooth as when it was coated with silicone, but it had no body then. Now i have 'big' hair. And the silicone filled conditioners only worked that well right after i colored my hair once a month anyway. When I used it in between, it didn't work so well.

I think this will work even better for anyone with short hair, especially if you style by fluffing with fingers or something.

Edited by alternativista
1 person likes this

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Emulsifiers impair skin barrier function by removing the lipids & other protective substances made by your skin. In your skin. Not just the surface. And emulsifiers aren't just in cleansers. They are used in creams & lotions to keep the ingredients blended together.

"Meanwhile, the number of indications and publications with critical statements regarding the use of emulsifiers in skin care products is steadily increasing. The reason for it are findings that emulsifiers can cause modifications in the horny layer:

  • They manipulate the integrity of the barrier layers which are part of the horny layers and which consist of very sensitive, so-called lipid bilayers.
  • Emulsifiers will not loose their emulsifying properties in the skin. There are exceptions: low doses of soaps which are transformed into acids like palmitic and stearic acids due to the acid milieu of the skin. These acids also are naturally present in the skin.
  • The lasting emulsifying capacity of the emulsifiers penetrated into the skin causes an increased transport of skin-own protective substances out of the skin especially when the skin comes in contact with water (shower).
For this reason, conventional creams frequently are not tolerated by consumers with skin problems as e.g. neurodermitics and psoriatics."

http://www.dermaviduals.com/english/publications/ingredients/emulsifiers-looking-for-alternatives.html - (German company. The translations to English are a little off at times)

Then I looked up palmitic acid to see what it said & found this in an article about plant oils:

"The evaluation of fatty oils which are also used as lipid phase in creams specifically depends on which types of fatty acids are bonded to glycerin to which percentage (fatty oils = triglycerides: three fatty acids are bonded to one glycerin molecule). In the skin the fatty acids are hydrolyzed by enzymatic reaction of the triglycerides and then used as a substrate for various other processes.

Thus the palmitic acid of the avocado and wheat germ oil has an excellent protective effect as it is a component of the skin barrier.Linoleic acid, a double unsaturated essential ω-6 fatty acid is chemically bonded to the ceramide I which also is an important barrier component. Larger quantities of linoleic acid can be found in grape seed, safflower and soybean oil. Just like the α-linolenic acid, a ω-3 fatty acid of linseed and rose hip oil; and γ-linolenic acid, a ω-6 fatty acid of evening primrose and borage oil, the linoleic acid is transformed into an anti-inflammatory hydroxy fatty acid (13-HODE, 13-HOTrEg, 13-HOTrE) by 15-lipoxygenase of the skin. Beyond that, γ-linolenic acid is an essential substance for those atopics who are not able to synthesize the acid from linoleic acid due to an enzyme defect."

I find it crazy that there aren't that many links when you look up " oil cleansing method" and "safflower oil", but you get a list of other riskier oils.

( and I used to use tons) And for the past several weeks, I've just washed with water only once a week. The waxiness I complained about is mostly gone and it seems washing my brush often is the key to that. My hair isn't as nice and smooth as when it was coated with silicone, but it had no body then. Now i have 'big' hair. And the silicone filled conditioners only worked that well right after i colored my hair once a month anyway. When I used it in between, it didn't work so well.

I think this will work even better for anyone with short hair, especially if you style by fluffing with fingers or something.

Would this work for someone with very oily hair who usually washes it every day (and in some occasions every other day)?

I added selfies of me & my unwashed hair to my blog post. http://dietforclearskin.blogspot.com/2013/12/brad-pitt-has-stopped-using-soap.html

You look great! Your hair looks nice toward the ends, but I wonder how are the roots? Is water only enough for them? Edited by GetMeTheResults

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