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Truth Revealed On Laser For Acne Scars**must Read***

acne scars

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#1 no_hope

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:25 PM

i was doing some research on realself and i found this to be shocking coming from a Derm.

 

The real story on acne scars

Here's the deal with acne scars: no laser is really going to do all that much for them. Sorry, but acne scars are very difficult to treat and you are never going to go back to where you want with any laser alone. Even with the best of treatments, you are going to have about 50% improvement and that is with fillers such as restylane and perlane, which will be doing the heavy lifting.

Prior to having Fraxel, Cool Touch, Fraxel Re:pair and every other laser that has promised to improve acne scars but didn't, I performed full face CO2 lasers on patients with acne scars. The results were not all that impressive, despite the fact that patients went through 2 weeks of sheer torture during the recovery phase. That, on top of the price in the $4000 range that made it *seem* like something ought to have happened. Due to this fact, I stopped doing the older, CO2 laser and haven't missed it one bit.

Now, unfortunately, we have a whole new generation of doctors and quasi cosmetic surgeons (family practitioners, nurse practitioners, Ob Gyns, etc) who have now purchased these lasers for their medispas and are trying to generate some cash, along with laser companies that are desperate to sell their machines. So, the old concept of treating acne scars with a laser such as Fraxel is once again being trotted out and desperate patients are being duped once more.

The truth is that it does precious little for acne scars and typically not enough to make someone spend the money and recovery time to do the treatment. What I tell patients is that if the money is something that you care about and it is anywhere near a stretch to do the procedure, you don't want to do it for acne scars. Wrinkles are a whole different situation because it does work for these. Acne scars not so much. And the recovery time, if the scars are done correctly with it, is going to be about a week or two along with major downtime and oozing. So, think twice before doing this procedure, despite what the laser companies and many doctors are telling you!                                                    

 

Omaha Dermatologist

Edited by no_hope, 26 June 2013 - 08:27 PM.


#2 aquasea

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:35 PM

Insightful review, thanx for posting :)

I haven't tried laser on my face, though I have been very tempted to try...but after researching and finding out it atrophies facial fat & can disfigure your skin even more, I decided to try other non-invasive methods...

All I can say is that dermarolling [I use the 0.25mm needle from clearskincare.com.au] & especially single needling [for stubborn scarring whether small/ large/ light/ deep - see owndoc.com] REALLY helps acne scars TOTALLY heal [ you can also trial vacuum therapy/ cupping/ suctioning - but I haven't tried these modalities - see owndoc.com]....as does one month of daily 30 minutes massages with 100% organic rosehip oil [ NB wash it off if you're still acne prone or mix it with 100% tea tree oil or place lavender oil directly on spots] - just don't go over this one month duration or massage therapy could be counterproductive....

Also, fresh lemon juice is AMAZING for healing scars....so too beta glucan, copper peptides and B3 niacinamide (NB please use a reputable dematological product with B3 as this ingredient is very powerful & if the dose is too high it will damage your skin! I think it should be less than 5% concentration, but please research as I'm not exactley sure - B3 has transformed my mottled/ aged/ bumpy/ pigmented/ lined/ severely damaged forehead back to health) and retin a (or retinaldehyde/ retinoic acid)...(I used to like glycolic acid peels too until I badly burned my skin! I have since discovered that fresh lemon juice is far superior to glycolic acid & won't use it again...I like to skin needle then apply the fresh lemon juice...)

I also love my supergreen DIY face mask filled with full spectrum vital skin nutrients/ natural growth factors to repair damaged skin:  manuka honey (factor 10 +) + fresh lemon juice + supergreen powder (organic 100% pure chlorella/ spirulina/ barley grass/ wheat grass - see https://www.synergyn...per-greens.html)
 

And eating a mostly raw, organic, superfood based, super healthy, nutrient dense, vegan diet, has helped me on the inside (along with supergreen fresh veg/ fruit juices daily with the supergreen powder)....plus gentle daily exercise [induces natural human growth hormones/ factors] & sunlight for vitamin D...

Btw, I have read that taking quality fiber supplements/ zinc supplements etc and a quality non-dairy probiotic supplement is very beneficial (although I haven't used this combination myself)...

Other things said to help scars (which I haven't used but seen good reviews) are:

- ALA - alpha lipoic acid
- Seabuckhorn
- Sulphur
- DMAE
- various peptides & liposomes
- EFAs
- and other things (I can't think of right now...but I'll add to this list if I remember)...

Overall, what I do know is that scars CAN heal & WILL heal... I have seen it happen with my own acne scarring and with second degree burn scars...honestly, all scars can heal if you treat it properly with good mesotherapy & effective topicals and eat/ drink/ live super healthy...so, No-Hope, there is HOPE :)



#3 aanabill

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:46 PM

i use a topical which is (clindamycin + nicotinamide) gel .

i use it only on bumps and spots.

 

my question is will that help with scars as well?

my derma had once told me that this works on lightening the PIH while healing acne.

nicotinamide probably has lightening effect!



#4 acnescar123

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:12 AM

Most of us who've researched lasers have seen that post. Thing is - he doesn't suggest anything else.....so there isn't really any reasonable options other than lasers. I'd also be happy with 50% improvement from lasers. He also hasn't the fractional co2 lasers, everything he says is about the old school co2 lasers.

 

Lasers don't work for everyone - but you can either believe one doctor who most people don't seem to like (http://www.ratemds.c...r-OMAHA-NE.html) or other doctors & medical studies (http://www.acne.org/...-study-results/). Also technically speaking needling and lasers work on the same principle - except that laser adds heat. It kinda doesn't make sense to me when people say needling works and lasers dont (they both cause the same pinpoint damage to the skin and approx. the same depth).


Edited by acnescar123, 27 June 2013 - 01:15 AM.


#5 Hiddy Cheeks

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 01:31 AM

What this derm says is consistent with the many negative reviews of laser treatments posted by patients on this site and others.   



#6 aquasea

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:08 AM

Most of us who've researched lasers have seen that post. Thing is - he doesn't suggest anything else.....so there isn't really any reasonable options other than lasers. I'd also be happy with 50% improvement from lasers. He also hasn't the fractional co2 lasers, everything he says is about the old school co2 lasers.

 

Lasers don't work for everyone - but you can either believe one doctor who most people don't seem to like (http://www.ratemds.c...r-OMAHA-NE.html) or other doctors & medical studies (http://www.acne.org/...-study-results/). Also technically speaking needling and lasers work on the same principle - except that laser adds heat. It kinda doesn't make sense to me when people say needling works and lasers dont (they both cause the same pinpoint damage to the skin and approx. the same depth).

Hi Acnescar123,

Actually, they are quite different in how they effect the skin e.g.:


-lasers use radiation (which is detrimental to human cells) and heating the skin can lead to pigmentation issues...

-lasers can destroy underlying facial fat and disfigure faces
-lasers can penetrate too deeply and actually cause scars/ skin atrophy/ large pores/ damage pores

-lasers can accelerate aging

-lasers are a high risk procedure
-lasers are expensive

-lasers are often detrimental to scars/ skin

In contrast, skin needling has none of these adverse effects/ concerns...instead skin needling:

- induces collagen naturally
- increases collagen
- strengthens skin
- ensures skin heals in a natural/ regular formation (unlike lasers that can cause skin to heal in abnormal formation)

- harnesses the skin's natural wound healing response
- is an anti-aging modality
- is very low risk
- is very successful if done correctly

- is relatively inexpensive

- increases product penetration to make topicals far more efficacious...

Cheers smile.png


Edited by aquasea, 27 June 2013 - 02:14 AM.


#7 tricia

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:01 PM

I had a doctor tell me the same thing in Georgia when I went to him to consult on my acne scars. He said he didn't think laser would be worth it for my scars. He said he would do it if I really wanted, but that since I didn't have sun damage, he was hesitant because that's the only thing he could guarantee it would improve. And I don't have very many wrinkles either. He said he would do subcision but said it may not do much either. I don't think my scars are really bound down much. I have had fillers in the past I have talked about. Restylane disappeared very quickly. Silicone didn't work well on me and maybe have caused puffiness around the scar, hard to tell what's causing that. When I had a professional dermaroller session I was not impressed. In fact I think I still see faint lines on my forehead. It was the genuine dermaroller. When I dermastamped myself it seemed to improve for awhile but then gets worse again. However, maybe I have had slow results from it, it just is not overwhelming to me because it is sooo slow. and I am still not satisfied. I think I will have to live with my scars. They are not as bad as they first were, but still very annoying to me.



#8 3lilpigs

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 12:20 PM

I had laser genesis, for acne scarring & pih, several years ago. My skin was clear of active acne at the time - a brief respite after accutane. I spent $200+ on each laser genesis session, five sessions to see results. The results were very minimal, at best. I would finish each session and study my before & after pictures, hoping to see the promised perfection offered by the plastic surgeon. The acne returned soon after, and the scars weren't diminished at all from the laser treatments. I've had much better results from inexpensive, holistic and homeopathic treatments, as of late.

#9 no_hope

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:40 PM

Insightful review, thanx for posting smile.png

I haven't tried laser on my face, though I have been very tempted to try...but after researching and finding out it atrophies facial fat & can disfigure your skin even more, I decided to try other non-invasive methods...

All I can say is that dermarolling [I use the 0.25mm needle from clearskincare.com.au] & especially single needling [for stubborn scarring whether small/ large/ light/ deep - see owndoc.com] REALLY helps acne scars TOTALLY heal [ you can also trial vacuum therapy/ cupping/ suctioning - but I haven't tried these modalities - see owndoc.com]....as does one month of daily 30 minutes massages with 100% organic rosehip oil [ NB wash it off if you're still acne prone or mix it with 100% tea tree oil or place lavender oil directly on spots] - just don't go over this one month duration or massage therapy could be counterproductive....

Also, fresh lemon juice is AMAZING for healing scars....so too beta glucan, copper peptides and B3 niacinamide (NB please use a reputable dematological product with B3 as this ingredient is very powerful & if the dose is too high it will damage your skin! I think it should be less than 5% concentration, but please research as I'm not exactley sure - B3 has transformed my mottled/ aged/ bumpy/ pigmented/ lined/ severely damaged forehead back to health) and retin a (or retinaldehyde/ retinoic acid)...(I used to like glycolic acid peels too until I badly burned my skin! I have since discovered that fresh lemon juice is far superior to glycolic acid & won't use it again...I like to skin needle then apply the fresh lemon juice...)

I also love my supergreen DIY face mask filled with full spectrum vital skin nutrients/ natural growth factors to repair damaged skin:  manuka honey (factor 10 +) + fresh lemon juice + supergreen powder (organic 100% pure chlorella/ spirulina/ barley grass/ wheat grass - see https://www.synergyn...per-greens.html)
 

And eating a mostly raw, organic, superfood based, super healthy, nutrient dense, vegan diet, has helped me on the inside (along with supergreen fresh veg/ fruit juices daily with the supergreen powder)....plus gentle daily exercise [induces natural human growth hormones/ factors] & sunlight for vitamin D...

Btw, I have read that taking quality fiber supplements/ zinc supplements etc and a quality non-dairy probiotic supplement is very beneficial (although I haven't used this combination myself)...

Other things said to help scars (which I haven't used but seen good reviews) are:

- ALA - alpha lipoic acid
- Seabuckhorn
- Sulphur
- DMAE
- various peptides & liposomes
- EFAs
- and other things (I can't think of right now...but I'll add to this list if I remember)...

Overall, what I do know is that scars CAN heal & WILL heal... I have seen it happen with my own acne scarring and with second degree burn scars...honestly, all scars can heal if you treat it properly with good mesotherapy & effective topicals and eat/ drink/ live super healthy...so, No-Hope, there is HOPE smile.png

thanks for sharing your positive tips =). unfortunatley my scars where man made. a derm i went to as a teen made incisions on my cystyc acne with a scalpel. he ended up damaging my skin and carved out little peices of skin with that scalpel. i didnt realize the damage he had done until after i was done accutane. i belive im gonna have to do really invasive treatments to improve the type of scarrring i have. i really dont think any topical or anything i do to live a healthy life style will impact my scars at all. it sux =(. i have my hopes on a phenol chemabrasion that seems to be good for deep scars...who knows well c



#10 acnescar123

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:09 PM

First of all - to all of you talking about having done/being recommend lasers - the "only" real laser that gives results is the fractional co2. The other lasers are too mild to do much. You can't compare laser genesis to fractional co2.

 

Hi Acnescar123,

Actually, they are quite different in how they effect the skin e.g.:


-lasers use radiation (which is detrimental to human cells) and heating the skin can lead to pigmentation issues...

Yup but it leads to better results. If that wasn't that case - all the new rf tools (ematrix, fractora, V-Touch) wouldn't be using heat/radation.

-lasers can accelerate aging

If that was the case - people won't be using them as anti aging tools. There is no proof of this.

 

-lasers are a high risk procedure

For a surgical procedure they're fairly low risk.


-lasers are expensive

True

 

lasers can destroy underlying facial fat and disfigure faces

-lasers can penetrate too deeply and actually cause scars/ skin atrophy/ large pores/ damage pores

-lasers are often detrimental to scars/ skin

Of the dozens of studies I've read - there has only ever been 3 cases where there was more scarring/bad results (but 100's of normal procedures) in those studies. Are there risks? Sure. Is there a comparable better option? not really.

In contrast, skin needling has none of these adverse effects/ concerns...instead skin needling:

- induces collagen naturally
- increases collagen
- strengthens skin

As does laser - they both cause the body to go into a would healing response.
- ensures skin heals in a natural/ regular formation (unlike lasers that can cause skin to heal in abnormal formation)

Please provide proof that the dermaroller scientifically "heals" better than lasers. It doesn't.....

- harnesses the skin's natural wound healing response
- is an anti-aging modality

Marketing.
- is very low risk

Lower risk, yes.
- is very successful if done correctly

Less succesful than laser which is done correctly. You're also gonna need 6+ treatments to get reasonable results.

- is relatively inexpensive

True

- increases product penetration to make topicals far more efficacious...

Topicals don't do anything for scars long term - so doesn't really matter

Cheers smile.png

 

Secondly - I answered the stuff in bold.

 

 



#11 aquasea

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:49 PM

Insightful review, thanx for posting smile.png

I haven't tried laser on my face, though I have been very tempted to try...but after researching and finding out it atrophies facial fat & can disfigure your skin even more, I decided to try other non-invasive methods...

All I can say is that dermarolling [I use the 0.25mm needle from clearskincare.com.au] & especially single needling [for stubborn scarring whether small/ large/ light/ deep - see owndoc.com] REALLY helps acne scars TOTALLY heal [ you can also trial vacuum therapy/ cupping/ suctioning - but I haven't tried these modalities - see owndoc.com]....as does one month of daily 30 minutes massages with 100% organic rosehip oil [ NB wash it off if you're still acne prone or mix it with 100% tea tree oil or place lavender oil directly on spots] - just don't go over this one month duration or massage therapy could be counterproductive....

Also, fresh lemon juice is AMAZING for healing scars....so too beta glucan, copper peptides and B3 niacinamide (NB please use a reputable dematological product with B3 as this ingredient is very powerful & if the dose is too high it will damage your skin! I think it should be less than 5% concentration, but please research as I'm not exactley sure - B3 has transformed my mottled/ aged/ bumpy/ pigmented/ lined/ severely damaged forehead back to health) and retin a (or retinaldehyde/ retinoic acid)...(I used to like glycolic acid peels too until I badly burned my skin! I have since discovered that fresh lemon juice is far superior to glycolic acid & won't use it again...I like to skin needle then apply the fresh lemon juice...)

I also love my supergreen DIY face mask filled with full spectrum vital skin nutrients/ natural growth factors to repair damaged skin:  manuka honey (factor 10 +) + fresh lemon juice + supergreen powder (organic 100% pure chlorella/ spirulina/ barley grass/ wheat grass - see https://www.synergyn...per-greens.html)
 

And eating a mostly raw, organic, superfood based, super healthy, nutrient dense, vegan diet, has helped me on the inside (along with supergreen fresh veg/ fruit juices daily with the supergreen powder)....plus gentle daily exercise [induces natural human growth hormones/ factors] & sunlight for vitamin D...

Btw, I have read that taking quality fiber supplements/ zinc supplements etc and a quality non-dairy probiotic supplement is very beneficial (although I haven't used this combination myself)...

Other things said to help scars (which I haven't used but seen good reviews) are:

- ALA - alpha lipoic acid
- Seabuckhorn
- Sulphur
- DMAE
- various peptides & liposomes
- EFAs
- and other things (I can't think of right now...but I'll add to this list if I remember)...

Overall, what I do know is that scars CAN heal & WILL heal... I have seen it happen with my own acne scarring and with second degree burn scars...honestly, all scars can heal if you treat it properly with good mesotherapy & effective topicals and eat/ drink/ live super healthy...so, No-Hope, there is HOPE smile.png

thanks for sharing your positive tips =). unfortunatley my scars where man made. a derm i went to as a teen made incisions on my cystyc acne with a scalpel. he ended up damaging my skin and carved out little peices of skin with that scalpel. i didnt realize the damage he had done until after i was done accutane. i belive im gonna have to do really invasive treatments to improve the type of scarrring i have. i really dont think any topical or anything i do to live a healthy life style will impact my scars at all. it sux =(. i have my hopes on a phenol chemabrasion that seems to be good for deep scars...who knows well c

***No-Hope, I hear what you are saying, but I ask that you seriously consider single needling/ microneedling at home with vitamin c or copper peptides. I'm sure you will be incredibly impressed with the results!!! See owndoc.com....you can also try vacuum therapy/ suctioning...owndoc.com stock this too...
 

 

I had a doctor tell me the same thing in Georgia when I went to him to consult on my acne scars. He said he didn't think laser would be worth it for my scars. He said he would do it if I really wanted, but that since I didn't have sun damage, he was hesitant because that's the only thing he could guarantee it would improve. And I don't have very many wrinkles either. He said he would do subcision but said it may not do much either. I don't think my scars are really bound down much. I have had fillers in the past I have talked about. Restylane disappeared very quickly. Silicone didn't work well on me and maybe have caused puffiness around the scar, hard to tell what's causing that. When I had a professional dermaroller session I was not impressed. In fact I think I still see faint lines on my forehead. It was the genuine dermaroller. When I dermastamped myself it seemed to improve for awhile but then gets worse again. However, maybe I have had slow results from it, it just is not overwhelming to me because it is sooo slow. and I am still not satisfied. I think I will have to live with my scars. They are not as bad as they first were, but still very annoying to me.

Likewise Tricia, please try single needling/ microneedling at home with copper peptides or vitamin c. This will induce collagen over 3 months ....you should see major improvement within 3-6 months. Please see owndoc.com ...for extra help, try vacuum/ suctioning/ cupping (owndoc.com stocks it too)....


PS Please consider retin a (or retinadehyde/ retinoic acid) and/ or a reputable skin serum with B3 niacinamide....these are powerful topicals that resurface your skin and help remodel your skin....just use sparingly  & only for a short time frame i.e. 6 to 12 month max and then stick to natural topical use thereafter (i.e. see Sukin, The Body Deli, Jess Organics, Pure Skin Junkie ...and possibly Bion Research or Osmosis products - but these latter brands do not contain just pure botanicals so they are not as ideal as pure botanical & non-toxic/ safe/ natural products)
 


Edited by aquasea, 27 June 2013 - 08:31 PM.


#12 aquasea

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 06:29 PM

Hi Acnescar123,

Do you work for a laser company? Because your response shows you are inculcated with mainstream medicine lies...Indeed, I'm here now because every topical/ pill/ procedure etc recommended by a doctor or dermatologist progressively ruined my skin/ health! Only now have I learned that holistic, natural remedies truly "heal" skin & boost health long term.

Moreover, whatever you wrote is nullified by the fact that my skin is testament to the reality that skin needling plus key topicals work [as does the testimonies of many others that vouchsafe it helped them too]. In contrast, there are innumerable websites and reviews warning others against laser treatments and the disastrous effects it has on their skin and life long-term (i.e. disfigured faces/ loss of facial fat/ more wrinkles/  face "drops" after a few months/ ill health etc). However, if lasers work for some people, I'm truly happy for them!! But personally, I'd rather not play Russian roulette with my own skin or health thank you very much smile.png

Anyway, I do my skin needling/ micro needling at home. I don't trust anyone anymore, other than myself, to "fix" my skin. It's been a learning process trying to ascertain what my skin needs (i.e. nutrients/ topicals/ skin needling techniques/ massage/ diet/ exercise/ sunlight etc) to repair itself, and yes, sometimes I've made mistakes too, but even with the mistakes, I've still managed to improve my skin over 90%....there's only a little way to go now (mainly stubborn redness through BP damage).

Cheers smile.png

 

PS See www.iplandlaserdamage.com http://www.iplandlas...serr_Commen.php


Edited by aquasea, 27 June 2013 - 06:30 PM.


#13 jfiligree

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:43 PM

Hi Acnescar123,

Do you work for a laser company? Because your response shows you are inculcated with mainstream medicine lies...Indeed, I'm here now because every topical/ pill/ procedure etc recommended by a doctor or dermatologist progressively ruined my skin/ health! Only now have I learned that holistic, natural remedies truly "heal" skin & boost health long term.

Moreover, whatever you wrote is nullified by the fact that my skin is testament to the reality that skin needling plus key topicals work [as does the testimonies of many others that vouchsafe it helped them too]. In contrast, there are innumerable websites and reviews warning others against laser treatments and the disastrous effects it has on their skin and life long-term (i.e. disfigured faces/ loss of facial fat/ more wrinkles/  face "drops" after a few months/ ill health etc). However, if lasers work for some people, I'm truly happy for them!! But personally, I'd rather not play Russian roulette with my own skin or health thank you very much smile.png

Anyway, I do my skin needling/ micro needling at home. I don't trust anyone anymore, other than myself, to "fix" my skin. It's been a learning process trying to ascertain what my skin needs (i.e. nutrients/ topicals/ skin needling techniques/ massage/ diet/ exercise/ sunlight etc) to repair itself, and yes, sometimes I've made mistakes too, but even with the mistakes, I've still managed to improve my skin over 90%....there's only a little way to go now (mainly stubborn redness through BP damage).

Cheers smile.png

 

PS See www.iplandlaserdamage.com http://www.iplandlas...serr_Commen.php

A person says lasers can work, so they must be biased?  Lasers work for some people - especially for deep scars.  There are pictures all over the place if you need proof.  If done properly and carefully, they're also pretty low risk.

 

Personally, I have had bad experiences with "natural" skin remedies - as have many people.  I would be more interested to see picture proof of results from natural scar remedies - you mention massages, exercises...and sunlight?  Sunlight makes scars worse - that's really hard to debate against.



#14 aquasea

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:04 PM

Hi Jfiligree,

It's a scientific fact - vitamin D from sunlight is ESSENTIAL for optimum health & good skin...i.e. vitamin D from sunlight prevents cancer, MS, arthritis, IBS, osteoporosis and many other illnesses & helps repair/ nourish skin...see http://middlepath.co...tan_sunburn.php & http://www.alkalizef...et/sunlight.htm & http://articles.merc...d-exposure.aspx & http://treato.com/Vitamin+D,Scars/?a=s & http://www.amoils.co...jury-and-scars/

In contrast, sunscreen CAUSES cancer...

So, yes, you should get a little daily sunlight daily (of course don't bake and don't burn!)....and if you're out in the sunlight for a longtime wear a wide-brimmed hat and protective clothing...

Cheers smile.png

PS I'm not saying that lasers don't work at all, I'm sayinig it is a high risk modality unlike skin needling/ micro-needling....and yes, many people report it has made their skin worse....


Edited by aquasea, 27 June 2013 - 09:00 PM.


#15 tricia

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:31 PM

I have done the single needling from owndoc.com along with the suction device broke on me after a short period of time because it was made so cheaply- don't recommend it.  The single needles were so small they didn't do much. I did buy a much bigger needle to do the horizontal needling and that did work better, but it is true when you get to the 18 gauge needles there is more risk of creating a scar with the needle insertion. I didn't screw myself up because I was working on a fleshy part of the cheek that had thicker scar tissue. I wouldn't do closer to the eyes or anywhere where skin is thinner with bigger needles. I say it helped more, but still hasn't cured my problem. I do think TCA peels can help, but you can't go too high a percentage or will make worse. Everyone's scars are different and will respond to different things. It is definitely worth it to try needling and see where it takes you. Lasers, on the other hand, which has been said, has a higher risk to just try. The doctor who advised me against it had a fractional erbium laser.



#16 Miko Yan

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 08:43 PM

This paper doesn't seem to portrait lasers in a favorable light:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3461801/

 

If it's hard to understand (for the non scientist/statistician) just jump to the conclusions. Here I quote some words:

 

"We have reliably shown that the results of the different studies are not as dramatic even by using subjective or objective analysis. Probably, the acne scars have a ‘memory’ which is difficult to change by fractional lasers."



#17 jfiligree

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:33 PM

Hi Jfiligree,

It's a scientific fact - vitamin D from sunlight is ESSENTIAL for optimum health & good skin...i.e. vitamin D from sunlight prevents cancer, MS, arthritis, IBS, osteoporosis and many other illnesses & helps repair/ nourish skin...see http://middlepath.co...tan_sunburn.php & http://www.alkalizef...et/sunlight.htm & http://articles.merc...d-exposure.aspx & http://treato.com/Vitamin+D,Scars/?a=s & http://www.amoils.co...jury-and-scars/

In contrast, sunscreen CAUSES cancer...

So, yes, you should get a little daily sunlight daily (of course don't bake and don't burn!)....and if you're out in the sunlight for a longtime wear a wide-brimmed hat and protective clothing...

Cheers smile.png

PS I'm not saying that lasers don't work at all, I'm sayinig it is a high risk modality unlike skin needling/ micro-needling....and yes, many people report it has made their skin worse....

That's really dangerous advice for people trying to heal their skin!  Sunlight damages collagen which is the opposite of what you want for scar repair.  You can get vitamin D from supplements and your diet instead.  Just look at this picture of a trucker who only had one side of his face exposed to sunlight.  You can also see skincancer.org for more info on sunscreen and cancer.



#18 acnescar123

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:47 PM

This paper doesn't seem to portrait lasers in a favorable light:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3461801/

 

If it's hard to understand (for the non scientist/statistician) just jump to the conclusions. Here I quote some words:

 

"We have reliably shown that the results of the different studies are not as dramatic even by using subjective or objective analysis. Probably, the acne scars have a ‘memory’ which is difficult to change by fractional lasers."

 

This article is more comparing the different lasers and saying there should be uniform testing done with different types of lasers before making a decision rather than comparing if they work or not. It doesn't really talk about what type of improvements they saw - they're basically saying it's hard to determine.

 

"Thus, clinicians should avoid being influenced by promises and suggestions of the industry, which favour one device over the other."

 

I posted a summary of laser studies + improvements here - http://www.acne.org/...-study-results/ . This site is much better for talking about laser improvement if you're interested - it is also where most of the info from the article you linked came from : http://www.jcasonlin...;aulast=Sardana  (give it a second to load)

 

"We statistically compared the improvement (in%) between the studies using NAFR and AFR lasers, excluding the studies where various modalities were combined.The mean improvement of NAFR (50.2%) was better than that of AFR (42.62%). This paradoxical result with NAFR though is based on subjective assessment. The only study that evaluated objective improvementwith AFR showed a mean improvement in scar volume by 38% with a scar reduction of 35.6%. This gives a realistic improvement that can be achieved by probably the most effective fractional laser technology at present.

 

AFR = co2, NAFR = erbium"

 

So ~40% improvement - which in my opinion is reasonable.

 

If you have mixed scarring, over a larger portion of your face and a suitable skin type - aggressive fractional co2 laser is fairly low risk and most likely the best option. That's not to say needling doesn't work to some extent though.


Edited by acnescar123, 27 June 2013 - 11:51 PM.


#19 aquasea

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 12:01 AM

Hi Jfiligree,

It's a scientific fact - vitamin D from sunlight is ESSENTIAL for optimum health & good skin...i.e. vitamin D from sunlight prevents cancer, MS, arthritis, IBS, osteoporosis and many other illnesses & helps repair/ nourish skin...see http://middlepath.co...tan_sunburn.php & http://www.alkalizef...et/sunlight.htm & http://articles.merc...d-exposure.aspx & http://treato.com/Vitamin+D,Scars/?a=s & http://www.amoils.co...jury-and-scars/

In contrast, sunscreen CAUSES cancer...

So, yes, you should get a little daily sunlight daily (of course don't bake and don't burn!)....and if you're out in the sunlight for a longtime wear a wide-brimmed hat and protective clothing...

Cheers smile.png

PS I'm not saying that lasers don't work at all, I'm sayinig it is a high risk modality unlike skin needling/ micro-needling....and yes, many people report it has made their skin worse....

That's really dangerous advice for people trying to heal their skin!  Sunlight damages collagen which is the opposite of what you want for scar repair.  You can get vitamin D from supplements and your diet instead.  Just look at this picture of a trucker who only had one side of his face exposed to sunlight.  You can also see skincancer.org for more info on sunscreen and cancer.

Jfiligree, WAKE-UP!!! The cancer industry is a SCAM!!!

There are 1000s of natural cures for cancer....thus chemo therapy/ 99% of big pharma etc is a sham!!! i.e. 75% of doctors would not undertake chemo if they had cancer & vaccines cause autism, illness etc (i.e in fact they have declassified putting cancer virus' and other things in some vaccines [it also contains mercury which damages your body & brain] - it's all just part of the massive global depopulation agenda by the hidden 'powers that be'...ditto for the toxic fluoride in tap water & toxic GMO/ processed foods....See www.naturalnews.com  & www.thewellnesswarrior.com.au for more REAL information...Btw, here are some REAL cancer cures:

- The Gerson Therapy
- Sour sop fruit

- Vitamin B17 (from apricot kernels)
- Turmeric
- 100% raw food organic vegan diet and juicing
- alkaline diet
- Sodium bicarbonate (see Dr Simoncini - cancer is a fungus)
- Sunlight - vitamin D
- Oxygen therapy (cancer/ fungus hates oxygen)
- Dandelion

- Beta Glucan
- Tree tree oil (for skin cancer)
- Hemp oil (i.e. cannibis oil for brain cancer)
- Various other herbs, vegetables, spices & fruits like blueberries, broccoli, kale, chlorella, shitake mushrooms and other mushrooms, barley grass, pomegranate, garlic, onion, cabbage, tomato, carrot, beetroot, ginger...
- And many others...

And I did not say sunbake like a trucker!!! I said get a "little sunshine" daily....BECAUSE A MODERATE AMOUNT OF DAILY SUNSHINE IS VITAL TO OPTIMAL HEALTH & PREVENTS CANCER!!!

Cheers smile.png

PS SUNSCREENS CAUSE CANCER, IT'S A SCIENTIFIC FACT!!

 


Edited by aquasea, 28 June 2013 - 12:03 AM.


#20 acnescar123

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 12:07 AM

I have done the single needling from owndoc.com along with the suction device broke on me after a short period of time because it was made so cheaply- don't recommend it.  The single needles were so small they didn't do much. I did buy a much bigger needle to do the horizontal needling and that did work better, but it is true when you get to the 18 gauge needles there is more risk of creating a scar with the needle insertion. I didn't screw myself up because I was working on a fleshy part of the cheek that had thicker scar tissue. I wouldn't do closer to the eyes or anywhere where skin is thinner with bigger needles. I say it helped more, but still hasn't cured my problem. I do think TCA peels can help, but you can't go too high a percentage or will make worse. Everyone's scars are different and will respond to different things. It is definitely worth it to try needling and see where it takes you. Lasers, on the other hand, which has been said, has a higher risk to just try. The doctor who advised me against it had a fractional erbium laser.

 

Since you're one of the more reasonable people in the thread......

 

I assume if your doctor advised against laser you have a darker/asian skin tone? If you want to try something more aggressive but still fairly low risk you can look into something like fractora.

 






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