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Dht And Its Role With Acne

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#1 aridus46

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:45 AM

I am 22 years old and I am a long time acne fighter. I have done countless hours of research on online forums and sites trying to figure out different ways to cure my acne. I for the most part have my acne under control with diet and basic healthy choices and have dramatically cleared up my acne by reducing the hormonal spike that happens from sugars and processed foods and replacing them with vegetables and probiotics. I still have one lingering problem however; Whenever I do heavy compound lifting, My body tends to breakout. I know it is because of the elevated levels of testosterone converted to DHT and my body responding to these drastic spikes in hormones that come from lifting heavy which cause your body to grow. to further the evidence that DHT from these hormones are the cause (excuse the details) my acne flares up usually a day or two after ejaculation. I recently did a test to see if DHT was the problem by supplementing with Beta sitosterol, stinging nettle and saw pallmeto during my workouts to reduce the levels of dht in my body during and post workouts. It worked like a charm. I had no new breakouts and I thought I had my cure. However, My libido and sex drive dramatically dropped and also my energy levels seemed way down also. I just overall felt lethargic and my workouts were pathetic. I went off the beta sitosterol and stinging nettle while still using a low dosage of saw palmetto and these problems reversed. However, the acne on my body came back (not as hard though pre use of Saw pallmeto) I am in desperate search of a solution that allows me to lift while not causing my dht levels subsequently to spike and cause an acne breakout. What would you suggest to try internally and topically block dht while minimizing its effects on my energy levels and sex drive?



#2 Green Gables

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:17 PM

You can go on an anti-DHT diet, meaning that you just avoid DHT triggers in your food and take less saw palmetto and such. Avoiding dairy, sugar, whey protein, protein workout supplements (which stimulate androgenic activity). It might help.

 

I feel like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here though, since bodybuilding is all about stimulating DHT past normal levels. You kinda have to choose between bodybuilding and clear skin. 

 

The only other thing I can recommend is using TOPICAL spironolactone. It is anti-DHT in a cream. It is often used for hairloss, but you can apply the cream on the face for acne. It may be able to reduce the DHT in your face without affecting the DHT in your muscles. Because it is topical it is safe for males. You can buy it over the counter here


Edited by Green Gables, 25 June 2013 - 04:19 PM.

photo-152109.gif?_r=1345837784?__rand=0.

 

I don't get notified of your response to my post unless you QUOTE my post.

Please only quote a small portion of the post so it doesn't clutter up the thread. 

 

How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#3 aridus46

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:05 PM

Thanks for the response. Yea I feel like right now I'm going to have to choose between one or the other which is a total bummer for me because I LOVE lifting but also it seems pointless to have muscles if its causing me to breakout. I'll have to look into your recommendation for the topical spironolactone. I feel topical is going to be the only solution if I can find one between maintaining muscle and minimizing acne breakouts.



#4 aridus46

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:12 AM

You can go on an anti-DHT diet, meaning that you just avoid DHT triggers in your food and take less saw palmetto and such. Avoiding dairy, sugar, whey protein, protein workout supplements (which stimulate androgenic activity). It might help.

 

I feel like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place here though, since bodybuilding is all about stimulating DHT past normal levels. You kinda have to choose between bodybuilding and clear skin. 

 

The only other thing I can recommend is using TOPICAL spironolactone. It is anti-DHT in a cream. It is often used for hairloss, but you can apply the cream on the face for acne. It may be able to reduce the DHT in your face without affecting the DHT in your muscles. Because it is topical it is safe for males. You can buy it over the counter here

Have you heard of a herb called bayberry? I've ready topically it can reduce DHT up to 82%.


Edited by aridus46, 15 July 2013 - 12:27 PM.


#5 mikito

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 02:58 PM

Please Aridus46 report if you have success with topical spironolactone.

 

Regarding the supplements you were taking in the past (stinging nettle and saw palmetto), could you please tell me if you were acne free 90% or 100%? I am asking this because today  I have bought a bottle of saw palmeto ( gnc brand).

 

Anyway, I hope topical spiro can be a solution for you.



#6 aridus46

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:06 PM

Please Aridus46 report if you have success with topical spironolactone.

 

Regarding the supplements you were taking in the past (stinging nettle and saw palmetto), could you please tell me if you were acne free 90% or 100%? I am asking this because today  I have bought a bottle of saw palmeto ( gnc brand).

 

Anyway, I hope topical spiro can be a solution for you.

When I was taking stinging nettle, beta-sitosterol and saw palmetto, from what I remember, I had no new acne. I honestly thought I had found the permanent solution i had been looking so long for. Like i said in my initial post though, it basically castrates you. I had no energy, I just felt lethargic and my muscle gains were taking steps backwards for the first time in my life. However, I was taking a rather high dosage of all those pills. Right now I am experimenting with taking saw palmetto 3x, bayberry 3x (said to reduce dht levels by 82%) half a pill of beta sitosterol (I suspect this was what was causing the most problems for me when I was taking 2 pills a day) daily. I wont be taking stinging nettle because I ran out but I definitely felt it helped. I've been doing this for about 4 days now and my workouts have been great. I also havent noticed any new acne showing up. I'm also using coconut oil, organo oil, and olive leaf extract to fight acne bacteria internally but I have done this before and it didn't help with body acne from dht from lifting. Its more just to kind of aid my body. It's frustrating because I feel women have a legit solution with the herbs I'm taking and dont need to worry about the side effects. For males, testosterone is what defines us so its pointless to try and suppress it to have no new acne. It's also worth noting my libido was completely dead when I was taking the high dose of all these herbs. I seriously had no desire for women sexually. I couldnt get excited no matter what you would do without going into details. Like I said though, the dose I'm taking right now seems to be working and my energy levels and desires are normal. I'm going to experiment with this for awhile before I try the topical spiro because of the price but if my problems return, I will bite the bullet and buy the topical spiro. I'll try and remember to update on my progress a couple weeks from now and let you know how this routine goes.



#7 mikito

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:42 AM

Thank you Aridus46 for sharing your experience with the supplement you were taking, I hope you'll find the answer to balance your energy, libido and no more breaks out. But regarding women don't have to worry about side effects, it's not really true and that's the reason  I was asking to you is because I am scary.

 

I am female, 43 years old,  and my dermatologist told me that at my age playing with hormones is really dangerous because you can get breast cancer. He prescribed me Diane 35 that really helped but not definitely a cure. It changed my skin from severe and painfull cystic acne to moderate acne but still persistant. Two months before 4 women died in France, and now Diane35 is forbiden in France and USA.

 

After this, I read a GreenGable post about her success with Spiro. I live in Spain and Spiro is not prescribed for acne, and It's prescribed for high blood pressure and my dermatologist refused to prescribe it to me for acne. He said that at my age my liver willl start failing and I will die  if I take it. I decided to take it on my own risk and I took it from my father's drawer. After two weeks taking spironolactone 50 mg I felt so weak and finally fainted, I called am ambulance and finished my day at the emergency room in a hospital because I have low blood pressure. Do you have high blood pressure? If you do, probably you can take a minimum dosage of Spiro and can be the answer for you. My father was prescribed Spiro for high blood pressure and I took the medicine from his drawer, so males can take it but I don't know the safety dosage .

 

Another disadvantage of beeing a female fighting with acne, is having your menstrual period when you break out like crazy.



#8 michi31

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:24 AM

I have very low blood pressure to start, and have been on Spiro 100mg for over 5 months with no problems. My blood pressure hasn't changed.



#9 aridus46

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:13 AM

Thank you Aridus46 for sharing your experience with the supplement you were taking, I hope you'll find the answer to balance your energy, libido and no more breaks out. But regarding women don't have to worry about side effects, it's not really true and that's the reason  I was asking to you is because I am scary.

 

I am female, 43 years old,  and my dermatologist told me that at my age playing with hormones is really dangerous because you can get breast cancer. He prescribed me Diane 35 that really helped but not definitely a cure. It changed my skin from severe and painfull cystic acne to moderate acne but still persistant. Two months before 4 women died in France, and now Diane35 is forbiden in France and USA.

 

After this, I read a GreenGable post about her success with Spiro. I live in Spain and Spiro is not prescribed for acne, and It's prescribed for high blood pressure and my dermatologist refused to prescribe it to me for acne. He said that at my age my liver willl start failing and I will die  if I take it. I decided to take it on my own risk and I took it from my father's drawer. After two weeks taking spironolactone 50 mg I felt so weak and finally fainted, I called am ambulance and finished my day at the emergency room in a hospital because I have low blood pressure. Do you have high blood pressure? If you do, probably you can take a minimum dosage of Spiro and can be the answer for you. My father was prescribed Spiro for high blood pressure and I took the medicine from his drawer, so males can take it but I don't know the safety dosage .

 

Another disadvantage of beeing a female fighting with acne, is having your menstrual period when you break out like crazy.

I guess there is always pros/cons with what medication you take to fight acne. The last thing I want to do is go on an intense antibiotic because I know of the havoc it wreaks on your insides. The side effects for saw palmetto seemed more that it would effect men then women which is why I thought the way I did. I can imagine how tough it would be to be a 43 year old woman though. I'm a 22 male so I still have a little hope that its something that I can grow out of but I'm sick of waiting. I know its all been said before but having acne is such a pain and I wonder why it even exists in the first place. It's especially frustrating when you see your friends with perfect skin eat whatever they want, and live the lifestyle they want and have no problems. Than there is me, i follow one of the most strict routines diet and lifestyle wise I know of and yet I still have problems. I guess as the saying goes, it is what it is but still it is frustrating. I refuse to give up though. I feel I have part of the puzzle down with knowing that DHT and my hormones are the problem, I just need to find a permanent solution that has as little side effects as possible. I'm curious to hear how your experience with saw palmetto goes, mitiko. I've heard many success stories with it so I hope its the solution you have been looking for. I also know that beta-sitosterol which is the compound derived from saw palmetto which is what makes it effective for acne is sold separately so maybe you might want to give that supplement a try. Just be careful with the dosage because I strongly believe thats what kept me clear but the side effects from the dosage was to much. 



#10 Green Gables

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:54 PM

I'm surprised your family member actually had a spironolactone medication for blood pressure. It was found to be so ineffective for high blood pressure that hardly any doctors use it for that anymore. There are much better drugs for blood pressure.

 

I am on 100mg daily and my blood pressure is exactly the same. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. 



Aridus, I hope you find success on a lower dosage. Beta-sitosterol has really concentrated effects compared to a standardized saw palmetto extract supplement. This can be a good thing, theoretically, less pills to take, but it's a lot more power especially for males. I don't personally recommend it....simply because we have no idea what dosages are appropriate.

 

If I were male I probably wouldn't use beta-sitosterol pills until more studies/trials are done. Just stick with saw palmetto extract standardized to 85% fatty acids, plus either stinging nettle, pygeum, or pumpkin seed oil just to avoid the side effects of lots of saw palmetto (for some reason saw palmetto-only users report more headaches, dehydration, etc. than people who mix herbs).


Edited by Green Gables, 28 June 2013 - 11:59 PM.

photo-152109.gif?_r=1345837784?__rand=0.

 

I don't get notified of your response to my post unless you QUOTE my post.

Please only quote a small portion of the post so it doesn't clutter up the thread. 

 

How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#11 mikito

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 03:36 AM

The name of the drug I took was Aldactone,and as I said I took it from my father's drawer and I took it on my own risk and fainted. I don't know if this drug is sold in USA. The active ingredient is 50 mg Spironolactone. It's so weird, because if you read the leaflet is just prescribed for high blood pressure and it doesn't say anything about not using for males. What's the name of the drug in your country?

It's also weird that Green Gables and Michi31 says that spiro doesn't affect their  blood pressure because  I felt so weak and I fainted the first week I was taking it. I was starting thinking that it was not the same drug you are taking and I check out the leaflet, but after reading it I confirmed that the only ingredient is Spironolactone.

And I guess the name of the drug is different in every country, but if the main and only different ingredient is Spironolactone, Why doesn't it say it's not used for males, and why does it say that the main purpose of this drug is to low blood pressure ( no matter if there are more drugs more efficiency for this purpose)?.



#12 aridus46

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:24 PM

Update on Results:

 

So far I have been taking saw palmetto 2x a day along with half a pill of beta-sitosterol on cardio days and a full pill of beta-sitosterol along with an extra pill of saw plametto to help with the surge of testosterone converted to dht from lifting compound weights. On off days, I just take 2 pills of saw palmetto, one in the morning and at night.  Before I was taking beta sitosterol pills 2x a day instead of just 1/2 or full pill which I am doing now. MY body acne has cleared up dramatically and now I will notice only one or two new cysts develop on my body at most after I lift and theyre usually pretty small compared to a large breakout that seemed to happen everytime after i lifted without these pills. My libido is better than it was before on my high dose of these pills but I still am not 100% like i did when I wasnt on these drugs. However, I would much rather live with a slight decreased sex drive and energy levels and have little acne compared to massive breakouts and having normal libido. I have also found after ejaculation, which usually would trigger a breakout on my face, if i take a pill of saw palmetto directly after, I dont notice any significant cysts develop the next day. I will have a few small ones but nothing worth noting. So far, this routine seems to be working fairly well for me and I also notice I can be more relaxed with my choices on food without having any consequences. I also have been splurging with a little caffeine as of late without having problems like I normally would. I'm planning on starting to take a supplement called dim which is suppose to be a more natural better way to inhibit DHT production and also metabolize bad estrogen with hopefully fewer side effects. I have read a lot of positive reviews for dim so I'm hoping I can slowly taper off beta-sitosterol and use dim for more a more long term solution.


Edited by aridus46, 15 July 2013 - 12:29 PM.


#13 mikito

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 03:28 AM

Aridus46, I am glad to know you have found the  perfect dosage to find the balance between  your energy levels, libido and no breaks out. Please keep reporting about your knew experience with dim.

 

 I bought a saw palmetto pills (160 mg), but I haven't taken them yet, because my skin is actually better than ever,( not 100 % acne free, but 90% acne free ) thanks to the zinc (50 mg) + pumpkins seeds (brand solaray) and I don't want to spoil it. It`s the fist time I have decent skin in 43 years but I know I will give saw palmetto a try in the future, because I want to know if it works or not.  Have you ever tried zinc (50 mg) ? it's supposed to inhibit DHt without decreasing your levels of energy. I have to point out that I am actually taking diane35 also, but Diane 35 is not enough for me. And that,s the reason I am also taking zinc. I supposed that I should take another supplement to get a perfect a skin like saw palmetto.



#14 aridus46

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 09:28 AM

I'm glad to hear Mikito you have been having great success lately. It's certainly a great feeling to finally have something begin to work for you after so many years of frustration. I have been taken zinc consistently for the past several years but I havent noticed it make much of a difference for acne. I have experimented with different kinds of zinc recommended for acne but I'm not sure how much it has helped in the past. I just take it because I know its healthy to supplement with. I definitely want to start trying pumpkin oil though. Its healthy in good fats and if it really does help inhibit a large amount of dht, I feel that would be the best long term solution. My goal is to start tapering off beta sitosterol to the point where I can use as little as needed of more natural solutions (such as pumpkin oil if it works) to make sure i minimize any possible long term side effects that could happen since most of these drugs i'm taking have little to no studies done on the their long term effects. Keep me updated on your results mikito and I would love to hear anybody elses results with trying out different dht inhibitors.



#15 mes6890

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:05 PM

Have to weigh in where I see people talking about inhibiting the conversion of testosterone to DHT. For many people this is the answer, but it is risky. A minority of people develop side effects that can persist for years. Google saw palmetto and brain fog, saw palmetto and libido for more info. I don't want to tell you all what to do, I just hope folks will consider this. Saw palmetto was an enormous mistake for me personally. Cheers and good luck.


Edited by playsomebeat, 22 July 2013 - 10:06 PM.

Life with Accutane side effects: http://bloggingmybet....wordpress.com/


#16 aridus46

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:39 PM

Have to weigh in where I see people talking about inhibiting the conversion of testosterone to DHT. For many people this is the answer, but it is risky. A minority of people develop side effects that can persist for years. Google saw palmetto and brain fog, saw palmetto and libido for more info. I don't want to tell you all what to do, I just hope folks will consider this. Saw palmetto was an enormous mistake for me personally. Cheers and good luck.

I agree that it is risky. While I feel Saw Palmetto is very effective, I dont think its the long term solution I wish it could be. I understand that its dangerous to mess with your bodies hormones, especially while going through puberty. My goal is to get to the point where I need as little natural solutions as possible to maintain clear skin. I'm right now experimenting with something called MMS (miracle mineral solution) which is simple drops of citrus and something chloride (dont remember the information). It definitely has a snake oil sound to it because of its claims of being able to kill all pathogens while not harming the body but it is interesting. It was banned by the FDA for reasons that are scientifically inaccurate (look it up if you're curious) but there are many, many success stories of how it has cured numerous diseases with its ability to kill virtually all pathogens (hopefully acne bacteria too) in the body. You cant patent MMS so the FDA and its greedy ways would obviously not want something so inexpensive found to be able to aid in the cure of many diseases. This could easily be wishful thinking, but the fact that the FDA has gone out of there way to ban it and the numerous success stories (why would people lie about there success with it if there is no money to be made?) makes me feel there could be a hidden gem here. I've done research on virtually all supplements it feels like at this point in my journey for permanently clear skin and I have a high B.S. detector now. While there is definitely good reason to be susceptible of a supplement called MIRACLE mineral solution, there is some interesting science and credibility behind it and its cheap so what do I have to lose. I'll update everyone on my experience with it and hopefully I will have some good news to share.


Edited by aridus46, 22 July 2013 - 11:41 PM.


#17 MaskedOne

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 05:33 AM

Have to weigh in where I see people talking about inhibiting the conversion of testosterone to DHT. For many people this is the answer, but it is risky. A minority of people develop side effects that can persist for years. Google saw palmetto and brain fog, saw palmetto and libido for more info. I don't want to tell you all what to do, I just hope folks will consider this. Saw palmetto was an enormous mistake for me personally. Cheers and good luck.

 

You know, I agree with this.  I'm female and I bought Saw Palmetto (I'm now on Spiro and being monitored by a doc).  When I told my friend, who is a doctor, that I bought it, there was a sense of surprise.  It's for men for their prostate (I found out my dad actually takes it).  While women can take it, it should be monitored.  Even though it's natural is does and can mess with a body's natural system. I never took the SP, and we'll see how the Spiro works.  My derm also reminded me that herbal and natural solutions are not regulated or tested by the FDA (U.S., Food and Drug Administration).  So you could get a rogue bottle that is higher is dosage or one that doesn't work at all.  It's a possibility.



#18 mikito

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 06:48 AM

Playsomebeat, could you please explain more about when you say saw palmetto was a mistake for you? I haven't given saw palmetto a try, but I am planning to try it in future and It would be very interesting to know your experience with this stuff.

 

Aridus46, good luck with your new experiment with MMS and keep us reporting if you have success. Regarding Zinc, I take the brand Solaray ( I don't know if it's sold in your country) but the important thing are the active ingredients 50 mg chelated zinc + 50 mg curcubita pepo (pumpkin seed).  I noticed a huge different in my skin, but  I think this wouldn`t be enough to inhibit enough DHt, if I wouldn`t  take it with Diane35 ( Ciproterone acetate) that is also an inhibitor of DHt. Perhaps that's the reason It didn't work for you, because you need to use it with another inhibitor of Dht. Zinc increase your libido, and I didn't notice any adverse side effect.

 

Masked one, for me a drug approved by FDA doesn't mean security. For instance, Roacutan was a huge mistake for me, it literally made me crazy. If you google Roacutane, you can find a research that says Roacutan decrease 21% your frontal lobule in your brain and its approved by FDA.  



#19 MaskedOne

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 07:58 AM

Mikito, I certainly understand what you're saying.  The FDA is not a 100% guarantee for accuracy.  However, I would rather have some oversight than none.  I thought long and hard about taking both Spiro and Saw Palmetto.  Spiro is not for everyone, either is Saw Palmetto.  It's a personal choice.

 

I took Accutane back in the 1990's. It was a miracle. I love it. I'd do it again. My story is anecdotal, but I know it's helped other people too.



#20 GFxTT

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:06 AM

Hello ! 

First of all, please forgive my english mistakes, I'm a french resident so it's kinda hard to me to talk perfectly smile.png

 

I'am very very relieved to FINALLY see a RECENT post about DHT acne and a guy experience, you have no idea Aridus how you saved my day ! 

I'm 21 and suffer from the EXACTLY same problems and ascertainments you had .

It's so painful to think about all of it, my psychological state of mind is so down because of my acne and the injustice felt is beyond imagine.

 

It's only recently I have made the link between DHT and my acne, since i encountered the same issues with lifting ejaculation and my food habits.

 

Since the past 3 days, I skim the web to find anything about DHT-blockers and the effects on acne, trying to find any witness experience of some people, but nothing until NOW!  smile.png

 

So my friend, please tell me what you recommand me to buy among all theses DHT blockers you tested ( you talked about Dim also and i read a lot about spironolactone http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2972662

This post is very interessting for me, even if I don't understand everything but this routine seems to be very efficient for you and probably will be for me too no?

Update on Results:

 

So far I have been taking saw palmetto 2x a day along with half a pill of beta-sitosterol on cardio days and a full pill of beta-sitosterol along with an extra pill of saw plametto to help with the surge of testosterone converted to dht from lifting compound weights. On off days, I just take 2 pills of saw palmetto, one in the morning and at night.  Before I was taking beta sitosterol pills 2x a day instead of just 1/2 or full pill which I am doing now. MY body acne has cleared up dramatically and now I will notice only one or two new cysts develop on my body at most after I lift and theyre usually pretty small compared to a large breakout that seemed to happen everytime after i lifted without these pills. My libido is better than it was before on my high dose of these pills but I still am not 100% like i did when I wasnt on these drugs. However, I would much rather live with a slight decreased sex drive and energy levels and have little acne compared to massive breakouts and having normal libido. I have also found after ejaculation, which usually would trigger a breakout on my face, if i take a pill of saw palmetto directly after, I dont notice any significant cysts develop the next day. I will have a few small ones but nothing worth noting. So far, this routine seems to be working fairly well for me and I also notice I can be more relaxed with my choices on food without having any consequences. I also have been splurging with a little caffeine as of late without having problems like I normally would. I'm planning on starting to take a supplement called dim which is suppose to be a more natural better way to inhibit DHT production and also metabolize bad estrogen with hopefully fewer side effects. I have read a lot of positive reviews for dim so I'm hoping I can slowly taper off beta-sitosterol and use dim for more a more long term solution.

 

I first wanted to take only Beta sitosterol (300mg per day with pills) since it's the (according to what i read on internet) effective thing in saw palmetto to blok 5alpha-reductase. but i see it gaves you erectile problem so I'm kind afraid .

 

Please answer me and keep us update, it's so hard to find any recent (or not by the way) post about our concerns and experience .

 

I want to avoid Roaccutane, since it's increase hairloss and grownhair on body and have many long term effect as mikito pointed out .


Edited by GFxTT, 28 July 2013 - 09:21 AM.