Here you go jlcampi.
I'll go statement by statement for you, and then if you'd like me to elaborate further I will if I'm still near my computer. Your words are in the quoted text- bubbles
Wow you put a lot of work into this. Some of this is absolutely correct. Unfortunately in many cases it's not.
Why start off a post like this? Whether this was your intention or not; this comes off as quite belittling. Part of being able to communicate your intelligence and debate something is simply setting up the environment to do so; and posting a statement that could be taken as offensive followed by several lines of source-less information is not the way to do it.
Quickly note on testosterone metabolism.
Testosterone is metabolized to estradiol through the aromatase pathway.
Testosterone is metabolized to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) through the 5 alpha reductase pathway.
This is correct. Nothing new here.
DHT does not stimulate sebum production. Testosterone does.
Nope. DHT, being a much more potent metabolite of Testosterone, has a greater effect on sebum production than testosterone. Testosterone does affect sebum production as do pretty much all androgenic hormones, IGF-1, and HGH do; but the extent to how much each plays a role is different. What is the rationale between thinking that Testosterone affects oil, but DHT does not?
I'll provide you with one study, and then let you do most of the reading on this. It is a medically accepted fact that both Test and DHT affect sebum production rates. If you look at google scholar, search PubMed, or browse various Dermatology/Cosmetic Science journals, you'll actually see that they refer to "androgenic activity" rather than single out various metabolites and precursors of Testosterone (there are several) because the levels and ratios of them ALL matter, and it would be incorrect to measure the levels of one and make conclusions based on that without putting those levels in the context of the others.
This study is the most comprehensive I've seen in terms of demonstrating what I was saying above. You should be able to see the full document, and it is great reading because it looks at how and which hormones COULD affect the skin. There is so much variability when it comes to hormones that it is very hard to see anything conclusively without huge and properly controlled trials, and this study shows that. http://archderm.jama...rticleid=478007
For further reading into seeing how DHT affects oily skin, look up information about 5-alpha reductase inhibitors; there are several studies out that show topical 5-alpha reductase inhibitors decrease sebum production because they inhibit the conversion of testosterone to DHT, re-iterating once again that DHT plays an important role in sebum production.
DHT does not cause PCOS. Elevated Estradiol/Progesterone deficiency does.
I have little knowledge of PCOS whatsoever, as it never applied to my endeavors to improve my skin. BUT, I can say that while DHT may not cause PCOS, several of the physical characteristics that come with PCOS are indicators of high DHT levels.
A brief foray across google leads me to find this http://www.biolrepro...t/86/5/149.full
From what the study says, PCOS is very complex and there is no real solid, foolproof approach for treatment as of yet. So how the medical community looks at lessening the impacts of PCOS on an individual is almost purely through controlling the symptoms, and doing this requires an accurate view of how the symptoms come about and what affects them. ANIMAL LOVERS SKIP THIS PARAGRAPH. One of the best ways to see this scientifically and with minimal costs and risks is through the modeling of the disease in trials with large numbers of animals. This study showed how PCOS and PCOS like symptoms was induced in rodents through the administering of various androgens, most notably Testosterone and DHT.
There are several other studies like this, and it demonstrates that PCOS is a much more complex syndrome than your one line sentence implies.
Elevated sugar increases insulin which stimulates sebum production by increasing fat production.
Coffee and sugar based drinks increase aromatase activity that elevate estradiol not DHT
Again, you've attempted to provide one-line answers to questions that doctoral thesis papers have spent 30 pages analyzing. Elevated sugar does increase insulin levels, this is true. This does not increase "fat production" an all cases, it could but it doesn't always. A better way to put it is that insulin "regulates glucose and fat metabolism". It COULD increase sebum production, but this is not known yet, as I couldn't find ANY articles to either confirm or refute that statement. You can read up on how insulin affects hormones and fat metabolism here http://www.jci.org/articles/view/10842
And for coffee and sugar based drinks increasing aromatase activity, where did you find this? And under what mechanisms does this work. Is it the same mechanism for coffee as for sugar based drinks? I cannot spend hours looking up ways to disprove vague and general statements without sources. I have never heard of this in my life, and a quick google search showed nothing but anecdotal evidence supporting AND refuting what you're saying there. If you want, you can refine this statement and I'll get back to you on it.
DHT is not your enemy, sugar and poor diet is.
Not really. Everything I've typed up there pretty much shows that it can be THE most important factor for some. But all of what we are saying here varies SOOO MUCH depending on the person. An example, I used to have a PERFECTLY clean diet because I was an amateur bodybuilder for a time and I while I didn't have severe acne, my skin was tremendously oily.Then enters engineering and a girlfriend, and I found myself not having the time to work out like I used to. I stopped all protein supplements but continued eating healthy, lifted with less volume and intensity, and my skin did a 180. It is pretty much night and day compared to what it was. After doing research and talking with two doctors, I've come to the conclusion that my body is extremely sensitive to androgenic activity. It means that I can change my weight and add muscle easily because my body is ultra responsive to hormonal changes induced by lifting, but it also means that Testosterone and DHT will wreak havoc on my skin. This is actually not an uncommon thing, but many people don't ever go from jock to nerd and back again to notice the difference that lifting induced hormonal activity CAN have on your skin.
Spironactolone will only be used chronically in corrective hormone therapy by the low information physician. This medication will bind to aldosterone receptors causing a change in mineral balance (hydration) in addition to lowering testosterone. This is not a mild medicine and there are many other ways of dealing with hormone imbalances.
Yes. This is corrrect
SPIRO WHEN USED LONG TERM IN RODENT MODELS CAUSES TUMORS.
LOL. This is just dumb. Green Gables addressed this in her post, complete with citations and endnotes, in post #47.
I hope you found that informative, I welcome follow up questions on the topic. I may not be able to answer them though right away because I'm busy with school, but if you start a discussion maybe someone else will take the reins.
Edited by CBIOT13, 23 November 2013 - 04:02 PM.