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Had Interesting Chat With Doctor Re Needling


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#21 aquasea

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:52 PM

Yes John777, it is suppose to increase the thickness of the inner skin layer (dermis) by increasing collagen production, but it thins the top layer. Many people report Retin A improves their skin significantly, but others, with more fragile skins, report it does not help their skins at all (as it doesn't increase their skin's collagen production/ thickness/ texture quality). But it seems Retin A is beneficial to more people than not. It certainly has helped the texture of my skin tremendously. I will continue to use it unless I stop seeing benefits. 

Also, I think skin rolling maximises Retin A's effectiveness and also helps induce collagen (which may help people with fragile skins using Retin A in the long-run). Everyone needs to be their own advocate and "doctor" and continually self-assess their skin's progress and adjust their treatment accordingly. It's also best to stick with natural, "safe" treatments as far as possible to minimize risks.

Lastly, keep researching your treatments thoroughly and don't be shy about speaking-up for yourself at the clinic. You will then be more empowered and more in control of the treatment used. Of course, it is advisable to see a specialist for your treatments if you are inexperienced, but sometimes they get it wrong too. So never be complacent about your skin's treatment and don't pay heed to the specialist's advice until you've verified it with your own thorough research and/ or sought other professional opinions. And it is always best to research the risks involved with any treatment and consider if they're worth taking, and then proceed slow, steady and as safely as possible. 

All the best with your treatments! :)



#22 aquasea

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:40 PM

Thanks Frasier smile.png 

I can vouchsafe that BP is ABSOLUTELY terrible longterm!! It can cause cancer and it ruins skin tissue. It also eventually stops working if you haven't treated the underlying cause of your acne. If I had known what it would do to my skin, I would NEVER have used it. In places where my skin has never been touched by BP on my face, it is now smooth and healthy like glass, but my forehead (where I placed BP mostly became after years of usage horribly leathery/ course/ bumpy/ dry/ asphyxiated/ highly pigmented). Also, I have redness/ lots of capillaries around my cheeks and nose that have been the hardest to remedy. It could be rosacea, but I have no acne with it, which makes me think it is just general skin damage (and this is noted in the BP studies as a major side effect).

Basically, by using BP (and other chemical "acne" products), I unwittingly traded my acne for longterm bad textured and very unhealthy skin conducive to scarring. However, if I had just turned to being a healthy vegan earlier (which was what actually stopped my acne 100%), used only natural topicals like Tea tree oil and lavender oil, natural oils and washed my skin with sea salt, I would not be on this board right now. My skin would be acne free and healthy! But lo and behold, although I've conquered acne, I have BP damage and scarring to undo. I try to warn people as much as possible about BP damage on this board, but it's "pushed" here as the no.1 acne product. This is my one BIG criticism about this board.

So, it's taken years, but my skin is finally on the mend. (Also, the glycolic acid "mishap" scars have nearly completely faded which is a major relief...).

At this stage, the Retin A is helping my skin. However, I don't recommend it as an acne solution, only a scarring/ skin texture solution. Instead, people with active acne need to change their lifestyle and eating habits: i.e. they need to make every mouthful nutritious, and they need to stay away from: processed sauces, fake foods, GMOs, corn syrup, gluten, microwaves, fried foods, junk foods, vaccine/ heavy metal/ toxic dyes-gases/ hormone/ pesticide/ diseased/ tortured rotting animals passed as "meat", acne inducing dairy containing puss/ antibiotic/ pesticide etc, sodas, aspartame, MSG, flouride [the chemical kind placed in tap water/ toothpaste] etc.

Instead, to cure acne, eat mostly raw vegan, natural, organic, wholefoods and superfoods and drink fresh veg/ fruit juices/ spring water. You also need light daily exercise, sunlight and a positive attitude. Also, detox and boost your immune system with a daily scoop of superfoods in your juice like: chlorella/ spirulina/ barley grass/ wheat grass. And take a quality multivitamin/ mineral.

Essentially, the natural and wholistic approach to health, wellness and good skin is always the best treatment longterm...

Cheers smile.png


Edited by aquasea, 24 May 2013 - 08:43 PM.


#23 aquasea

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:57 PM

PS, FYI Source: http://www.essential...d.php?tid=29555

Study A)

"According to a study I found on PubMed: Yes, Retin-A does cause thinning of the skin.

The study "Effect of myristyl nicotinate on retinoic acid therapy for facial photodamage" from Nov 2007 is based on the hypothesis that skin barrier impairment is a contributor to side-effects that are associated with retinoic acid therapy. Retinoic acid seems to be causing thinning of the upper layers of the skin, stratum corneum.

Quote:
Analysis of skin biopsies revealed that retinoic acid therapy resulted in stratum corneum thinning of approximately 25 %.

The study shows that myristyl nicotinate (MN), a lipophilic derivative of niacin (as found in f. ex. NIA24) may counteract some of the negative effect of retinoic acid.

Quote:
These results show that prior and concurrent use of MN can mitigate barrier impairment and improve the tolerability of retinoic acid therapy for facial photo damage without interfering with efficacy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17927576"




Counterbalanced with this Study B:

"Loss of elastic fibers causes skin wrinkles
in sun-damaged human skin


3. Results

3.1. Correlation between elastic fiber
reduction and wrinkle severity in
chronically sun-damaged facial skin

3.2. Restoration of elastic fibers in
photoaged skin by topical retinoic acid
treatment

3.3. Positive correlation between elastic
fiber regeneration and wrinkle
improvement in RA-treated skin

In this study, we quantified the newly regenerated oxytalan fibers after 24 weeks of RA treatment and this regeneration with wrinkle severity. The topical application of RA reduced wrinkle severity significantly and also increased the lengths, widths, numbers and total areas of tropoelastin- and fibrillin-1-positive oxytalan fibers in photoaged facial skin. Interestingly, we found a strong positive correlation between the lengths of oxytalan fibers regenerated by 24 weeks of topical RA treatment and reduced wrinkle severity in photoaged facial skin. In general, the working model of photoaging (wrinkling)and restoration effect of RA treatment has been resolved by the change of the amount of collagen in dermis [3—6]. However, our results suggest that disruption of the elastic fiber network can cause skin wrinkling, and that the regeneration of the elastic fiber network by RA reduces wrinkle severity in photoaged skin. Therefore, wrinkle formation may be a composite results of both elastic and collagen fiber disintegration."



i.e. Retin A thins the outer skin layer but should, in theory, thicken the inner skin layer.


Edited by aquasea, 25 May 2013 - 12:05 AM.


#24 goood

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 11:24 AM

By way of testing this theory out i'm going to buy some needles and try single needlng two scars every week for six weeks, then i'm going to leave it for a month let any inflammation die down and assess any results.

hi justmeuk,

have you tried this theory and did you get postive results?

 

Cheers ;)



#25 justmeuk

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 12:02 PM

By way of testing this theory out i'm going to buy some needles and try single needlng two scars every week for six weeks, then i'm going to leave it for a month let any inflammation die down and assess any results.

hi justmeuk,

have you tried this theory and did you get postive results?

 

Cheers wink.png

No, i started having second thoughts and got worried about possibly making things worse.  I've been needled the scars individually but left four weeks between sessions.  I've only done it twice so far but i think i can see a subtle difference.  I guess it will take me longer to see results doing it every four weeks but hopefully i'll get there in the end. 



#26 goood

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:08 AM

http://www.acne.org/...y/#entry3296276

 

guy in this thread had great improvment with self needling, and i think he was doing self needling very often.

 

i m going to try it on one of many my scars and see the result.



#27 Remicade

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:04 PM

Interestingly on researching this Dr Des Fernandes who is one of the inventors of the dermaroller also recommends dermarolling on a weekly basis.

Where do you read about this ?