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#1 AuguriesofInnocence

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 04:09 AM

hello, I have noticed a lot of snarky comments and I-know-everything-about-nutrition attitude in this category, and I think it needs to stop because this site is supposed to be about helping each other.

Everyone has a different idea of what foods/supplements can cure acne (or cancer for tha matter) and though certain specifics may have worked for you, however...not everyone is the same. Humans evolved as omnivores, some people can be health as raw food vegans, some can do the paleo diet, some can juice and green smoothie their way to perfect skin, et nauseum... I think most of us agree there are general guidelines as to what is and isnt healthy--Mc Donalds isnt a great idea, and fruits and veggies cant hurt unless you are allergic to them, but claiming "YOU CAN CURE YOUR ACNR BY DIET ALONE", it  isnt fair to make that sweeping claim.

If you personally have cleared your acne by diet alone, thats a blessing and Im happy for you, but to claim every person can do the same is not realistic. We already have enough guilt and shame with acne, why add to the mess?

 

I tried for over three years to cure my acne by various diets. I cut out junk and sugar, followed by dairy and gluten, followed by basically only eating brown rice, fish and chicken and water at one point. I tried vegetarian. I tried eating only apples and nuts, I just about went nuts in the process. My acne was at its worst the healthier I ate, it seemed, even juicing every day didnt do anything. I was frustrated, a strict diet was inconvenient and I felt deprived for nothing. The only thing which completely cleared my skin was taking birth control and anti-androgen supplements. To me this proves acne is hormonal. Some foods affect hormones one way or another but if you have a true imbalance like I did, you can eat air all day and nothing will change.

 

I spent a lot of time, money and loss of sanity believing acne was my fault because of what I was or wasnt eating, even though nobody agrees on what that should be, necessarily. I lost too much weight, became depressed and ended up on accutane for a month which was a big mistake. A simple birth control pill is what I needed all along, I could have skipped years of suffering if Id only known sooner. Id not presume to tell anyone what they should or should not eat, as I admit it truly doesnt seem to matter to me personally. I still eat healthy but if I want a damned peice of cheesecake or have a bad week where I eat junk food, I dont beat myself up because my skin doesnt react to foods anymore. If you have food allergies, they may manifest as acne-like symptoms but true acne is hormonal.

 

I expect a lot of ingidgnation from this post but this is my opinion and its as valid as anybody's. Good luck to those of you still trying to find what works to clear your acne. All Im saying is, we get enough negativity from the world, if you are on this forum you should be understanding.

Peace out.


Edited by AuguriesofInnocence, 21 April 2013 - 04:14 AM.


#2 leelowe1

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:14 AM

I agree with you !00%  The nutrition boards can be a blessing and a curse but most people i've encountered there have been really chill and genuinely want to help.  Don't let the few assholes discourage you from looking there.  IMHO, i think we all could benefit from a little sensitivity all around.  It is one thing to share your experiences both positive and negative but another to push your belief on others.

 

 

Thanks for positing


It's a rocky road but like everything else in life, there is always a beginning and an end.  Here's to finding my end.

 

God is good to me..........more than I deserve.

 

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Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.


#3 nicmic62

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:44 AM

Diets can work, but you know what...everybody knows already fast food isn't good for them. But then again, you can't help but crave things. It would be amazing if we all had such amazing discipline to the whole fruits and vegetables diet but we don't. So you know what, find what works for you. Find a happy medium that you can live with. Ignore all the insensitive comments because sometimes people are just assholes.

 

Good luck! :)


Morning Routine:
- CLEANSER: Cetaphil Gentle Skin Cleanser/Acne.org Cleanser
- BENZOYL PEROXIDE : 1 pump of The Acne.org 2.5%
- MOISTURIZER: CeraVe Moisturizing Lotion + Neutrogena Moisture with SPF 15 + 5-6 drops of Acne.org Jojoba Oil
 
Evening Routine:
- CLEANSER: Cetaphil Gentle Skin Cleanser/Acne.org Cleanser
- BENZOYL PEROXIDE : 1 pump of The Acne.org 2.5%
- MOISTURIZER: Cetaphil Moilturizing Cream + Acne.org AHA + 5-6 drops of Acne.org Jojoba Oil
 
Extras:
- Concealer: MAC Studio Finish Concealer in C25 (for redness)
- Pressed Powder: MAC Select Sheer in NC20 (for mattefying)
- Foundation: Revlon Colorstay for Oily/Combination Skin in Buff (for even skin tone)
- Scrub: St. Ives Apricot Scrub Blemish and Blackhead Control (twice a week in the AM)
- Medication: Diane 35
                     Meftormin 500mg (for PCOS)
- Supplements: Vitamin D3 (1000UI/day) --- Started 5/16/2013
                         Zinc (50mg/day) --- Started 5/16/2013
 
And this is all done as gently as possible. smile.png
 
This is my Regimen journey. --- http://www.acne.org/...gimenwith-pics/

 

Ordering Acne.org Products from the Philippines. --- http://www.acne.org/...he-philippines/


#4 CBIOT13

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:54 AM

""I definelty agree with you about all the people getting preachy about diet affecting acne. And quite frankly, for most people diet has NOTHING to do with acne. I always get a kick out of the people with like 3000 posts that come on this website and preach about how specific diets affect acne.

I have had three dermatologists tell me that for 80% of the population,diet does not affect acne. Acne is cyclical, and there's many, many factors that go into whether you have acne or not. Diet is ONE thing that, in combination with others, can affect acne. It is by no means the root cause, and anyone with an education in this area will agree with that. But in reality the most preachy people seem to be the ones without degrees LOL.

The best thing to do? If you see those members that have tons of posts, with signatures that talk about the eight types of foods to never eat LOL, and that seem to be full bore into alternative medicine and against "Big Pharmacy" lol; just skip the thread.

These people come on here and try to play doctor or dermatologist, with nothing but google and a warped view of the medical industry to guide them.

But don't let these people bother you too much. For every annoying idiot that preaches how dairy or a gluten free diet will cure acne for everyone, there's 10 others that know better but don't want to waste the energy to call out the guy.""


I posted all of that in a similar topic a week or so ago, and to save myself some time I just copy and pasted it here lol. There's a lot of people on this website that are like that, and the problem I've seen is they try to force it as an acne cure, and in reality it only is for maybe 10% of acne sufferers.

I find it comical though how much these people think they know, and they have no problem creating thier own thoeries and reasoning to back up their claims and then pass it off as a fact. Some of their claims are even in direct conflict with theories in the industry; that's people using Google to correct people with an actual education on the subject !!!

LOL I hope you see the irony in that.

THE MODS REALLY SHOULD WATCH for and warn these Forum Derms and Forum Doctors because someone may:

1) develop an eating disorder ( although rare, I saw a post of someone who did, and claims it was from this)

2) hurt themselves because of the lack of nutritional value some of these diets have.

3) experience depression amd anxiety due to the fact that the individual thinks it's his/her fault they have acne, when it is NOT


CALLING ALL MODS
I've seen enough threads like this one, when will you start warning the repeatedly preachy diet people ???

People never cease to amaze me. Some with their brilliance, others with their ignorance. eusa_think.gif

 

Here's A Few Acne.org Threads Of Mine You May Find Useful/Interesting (updated 7/25/13)

-- DIY Apple Cider Vinegar Toner http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/324606-flakydryoily-skin-try-this/

-- How to Ice Inflammed or Picked at Cysts http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/327532-acne-redness-removal-trick/

-- Milk of Magnesia Uses http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/329385-ways-to-use-milk-of-magnesia-for-oily-skin/

Other Threads Worth Looking At

-- Oily Skin Research Thread: This shows some of our previous efforts and explains the mechanisms behind oily skin.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/326345-oily-skin-research/

-- My failed but enlightening experiment going the "less is more" route, aka "The Caveman Routine"

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/327898-a-minimalist-approach-for-oily-skin/

 

 

 


#5 dejaclairevoyant

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:59 AM

I think a lot of us will agree with you at this point. I went through the same thing a little while ago when I came out and admitted that my struggle to cure acne naturally had given me an eating disorder. I began focusing on healing from that, stopped bombarding my system with probiotic supplements *which were recommended to me in here* and got back on the regimen, the one thing that worked for me in the past that I had quit because it wasn't "natural" enough. Now I eat things like pasta, chocolate, curry, beans and sweet potatoes and my skin is so much better than before when I was starving my body with a super limited diet. Like you, the healthier I tried to be, the worse my skin got.


Edited by dejaclairevoyant, 21 April 2013 - 10:01 AM.

Current Skin-Care Regimen (A work in progress):

 

Morning:

Gentle wash with DKR cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil (The  lotion alone wasn't hydrating enough)

Skin 79 Korean BB Cream (excellent stuff)

 

Evening:

Gentle Wash with DKR Cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil

 


#6 Binga

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 11:27 AM

Well back in the days I had mild / moderate acne. Than when I came to the US I started eating junk food, cola etc. and my acne became quite severe. So I think a good diet helps in controlling acne but its not a total cure.



#7 paigems

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:12 PM

If you have food allergies, they may manifest as acne-like symptoms but true acne is hormonal.

But food does affect hormones, right? Right now I'm taking metformin which balances my blood sugar after I eat food. My males hormones have gone from very high to more normal. I assume regulating blood sugar with low glycemic load food would have the same affect? Therefore it would have an affect on hormones?



#8 CBIOT13

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 01:10 PM

I'm a little miffed because I had about seven paragraphs typed up but I accidently clicked on one of the links I had in it and it took me away from the reply text box, and so I lost it all LOL.

 

Soooo the short version is 

 

1) Most people wrongly attribute food affecting their acne because either their skin clears for unrelated reasons while on the new diet OR because what they eat is indirectly affecting other aspects of their lifestyle

 

2) Hormones are significantly affected by what we eat, the caveat is science doesn't understand enough about what affects what lol. There are studies showing diary and low glycemic loads affect acne, but no Derm or Doc will tell you to change your diet because it is not yet a reliable treatment for the majority of people. Anyone that tells you otherwise is either a genius that has not yet shared their research with the scientific community or is completely full of it

 

3) If you eat next to nothing or only tofu for three months, your skin will likely clear. Great Right? Only now you may have vitamin and mineral deficiencies, a weakened immune system, compromised mental and physical ability, fatigue, and may be setting yourself up for some nasty diseases related to how you are basically starving your system of what it needs. Eat healthy and balanced, but don't go insane trying to cut out certain food groups unless you are SURE you are putting back in your body through supplements what you are losing. Even then it's still not a good idea.

 

 

And there are exceptions to everything, so some people could have special circumstances which make what I said wrong. But for the majority, this is how it works.

 

And unlike the preachy diet people, I'd be glad to post any studies or research about any of this and am open to other studies contradicting what I said. 

 

I strongly recommend before anyone drastically changes their diet based on what a poster says to do their own research first. Use a scholarly document search engine like Google Scholar, check out research databases like EBSCOhost, or see if you can use a university's library system like LexisNexis Academic (some are free [mine comes with tuition], some are not). Results may be tricky to find, but you owe it to yourself to crosscheck something you heard from some anonymous poster if you are about to try it.

 

 

Knowledge is power, people. Arm yourself   smile.png


Edited by CBIOT13, 21 April 2013 - 06:02 PM.

People never cease to amaze me. Some with their brilliance, others with their ignorance. eusa_think.gif

 

Here's A Few Acne.org Threads Of Mine You May Find Useful/Interesting (updated 7/25/13)

-- DIY Apple Cider Vinegar Toner http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/324606-flakydryoily-skin-try-this/

-- How to Ice Inflammed or Picked at Cysts http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/327532-acne-redness-removal-trick/

-- Milk of Magnesia Uses http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/329385-ways-to-use-milk-of-magnesia-for-oily-skin/

Other Threads Worth Looking At

-- Oily Skin Research Thread: This shows some of our previous efforts and explains the mechanisms behind oily skin.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/326345-oily-skin-research/

-- My failed but enlightening experiment going the "less is more" route, aka "The Caveman Routine"

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/327898-a-minimalist-approach-for-oily-skin/

 

 

 


#9 Tom Busby

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 05:55 PM

Well said AuguriesofInnocence.  Nice screen name too: http://www.bartleby.com/41/356.html



#10 alternativista

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 06:48 PM

Sigh. Why do we have to do this again? Especially after so many success stories. I don't get it. I haven't seen a' follow this and you'll clear your skin 100% guaranteed post' in ages.  The most negative posts I've seen are the ones just like the OP. 

Diet affects your skin and everything else happening in your body. Period. It is not possible for it not to. But it isn't the only thing that leads to acne and you can address other things and be doing enough to not have the symptom of acne appear. And you can eat the best diet possible and still have acne because of other unhealthy habits or some issue that needs additional attention, like thyroid function for example. Although for most people that will get better with improved diet as well.

And then there's stress. If you can't eat right without developing a disorder, then don't do it. At least not without addressing your emotional issues first. Then again, diet affects that too.

Also, almost every time someone starts one of these threads about how healthy they ate, they almost always list numerous examples of extreme, unhealthy diet habits and behaviors. Only apples and nuts?  Making yourself nuts?

I also want to add that I saw many derms who told me diet had nothing to do with acne, and I took many of their drugs from antibiotics to accutane for over a decade. And I tried several birth control pills. None of it ever helped. I wish someone had told me the truth about diet sooner.
 


If you have food allergies, they may manifest as acne-like symptoms but true acne is hormonal.

But food does affect hormones, right? Right now I'm taking metformin which balances my blood sugar after I eat food. My males hormones have gone from very high to more normal. I assume regulating blood sugar with low glycemic load food would have the same affect? Therefore it would have an affect on hormones?

Yes it does. Also, true acne is an inflammatory condition. Hormones merely exacerbate the problem. And allergies can exacerbate true acne as well.
 


Edited by alternativista, 22 April 2013 - 01:25 PM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#11 onefatalgoose

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 07:37 PM



Also, almost every time someone starts one of these threads about how healthy they ate, they almost always includes examples of extreme, unhealthy diet habits and behaviors. Only apples and nuts?

 

 


If you have food allergies, they may manifest as acne-like symptoms but true acne is hormonal.

But food does affect hormones, right? Right now I'm taking metformin which balances my blood sugar after I eat food. My males hormones have gone from very high to more normal. I assume regulating blood sugar with low glycemic load food would have the same affect? Therefore it would have an affect on hormones?

Yes it does. Also, true acne is an inflammatory condition. Hormones merely exacerbate the problem. And allergies can exacerbate true acne as well.

 

This is exactly what was going through my head while reading this thread.  In regards to people listing off their healthy diets that are so extreme.  And my lord am i sick of reading posts that say "in reality, for most people diet has nothing to do with acne".  ???  Is that in your reality?  Then ok, i can understand that it didn't have the desired effect.  In most people's?  You have no clue.  So sick of reading that.  Also not all 'healthy' diets are created equal.  Not all vegan diets are created equal.  Nor are vegetarian.  

 

I don't know how many times you'll have to repost the fact that food does affect hormones as well as countless other metabolic process', liver function, thyroid function, inflammation, etc before it sinks in alternativista.  

 

There are so. many. variables to acne.  So many.  Diet is one, and a huge one.  I have no doubt that it was not the single cure for many users, but keep in mind all the other genetic variables (which we're learning are indeed affected by what we eat), all the topical variables (what you put on your skin), stress, exercise, vitamin deficiencies, chemical/pesticide/herbicide exposure...

 

It can be such a process to figure out how to treat your acne, but saying diet doesn't have an affect is mindless.  And for all your friends that can eat all the shit they want to and not get acne, that is not an argument for diet not affecting acne.  Their skin pores do not function the same as yours, and are not becoming blocked up by dead skin/sebum/oil.  And these issues can be affected by diet btw.  You have to try much, much harder than they do.  

 

But that doesn't mean eating apples and nuts only.  Or only leafy greens.  Or only vegetables.  Or only chicken and rice


Edited by onefatalgoose, 21 April 2013 - 07:42 PM.

                                                      80%-20% Alkaline forming vs Acid forming Diet

                                                                                `Organic~
                                                                            I don't consume:
                                                                                     *Dairy
                                                                               *Whole grains
                                                                             *Refined sugars
                                                                                 *Table salt
                                                                              *Vegetable oils
                                                                        *Processed/Fast foods
                                           *Genetically Modified Foods (GMOs)
                                                                      As well as the pesticides/herbicides that come with them

                                                      My philosophy: Less externally, more internally

                 Even taking long hot showers in chemically treated tap water is too harsh for acne prone skin

                                                                 (And that's without a face wash)

                         

                                     This site is absolutely loaded with info on curing acne internally

 


#12 CBIOT13

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:28 PM

Exhibit A....

Bottom line people, do your own research before you adopt a new routine or diet. If it is your Doctor or Dermatologist, that's one thing. But if it's a member on Acne.org, that's when you need to sort fact from fiction.

Use those resources I provided in my previous post, and if those don't turn up anything Google is okay. Just be sure to search with skepticism:

- Always check if sources are cited correctly and if you can find a name with the article
- Check the rest of the website the article is on, any signs of radical or just plain incorrect views on other webpages should raise some red flags not to believe the article
- Check the dates. Don't be reading an article from the 80s LOL
- Typos are a bad sign as well, they show little effort was made in presenting a complete article so that should be indicative of the quality of the article itself
- Make sure no ones trying to sell you anything. If you see an "add to cart" or "this product doesn't work, so buy my product instead" just move on
- Use websites like Web Md or the Mayo Clinic for accurate medical information on supplement dosage and medical issues, don't trust websites that hint that Doctors are incompetent. They don't spend a decade in college doing nothing.

Everyone has different opinions on things, and unless someone has a DEGREE their views are just that. Opinions, nothing more-so take it with a grain of salt.

The better option when you hear something is to do your own research, and if your not sure ask someone knowledgeable on the subject. That does not mean some anonymous poster, it means your Doctor or your Derm.

Because at the end of the day, anyone can say anything on the internet. Talk to a professional because they can give you solid advice, and because they are held accountable for the treatment of their patients.

Edited by CBIOT13, 21 April 2013 - 09:31 PM.

People never cease to amaze me. Some with their brilliance, others with their ignorance. eusa_think.gif

 

Here's A Few Acne.org Threads Of Mine You May Find Useful/Interesting (updated 7/25/13)

-- DIY Apple Cider Vinegar Toner http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/324606-flakydryoily-skin-try-this/

-- How to Ice Inflammed or Picked at Cysts http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/327532-acne-redness-removal-trick/

-- Milk of Magnesia Uses http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/329385-ways-to-use-milk-of-magnesia-for-oily-skin/

Other Threads Worth Looking At

-- Oily Skin Research Thread: This shows some of our previous efforts and explains the mechanisms behind oily skin.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/326345-oily-skin-research/

-- My failed but enlightening experiment going the "less is more" route, aka "The Caveman Routine"

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/327898-a-minimalist-approach-for-oily-skin/

 

 

 


#13 alternativista

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:32 PM

^ Exhibt B -  There's your negativity, ignorance and insults.

 

Bottom line.  Do your own research about whatever your doctor or derm tells you as well..  Always,. They apparently do not read their own journals filled with research papers that contradict the things they tell you about diet.   You can start with the pinned Clinical studies thread filled with research demonstrating the many, many ways nutrients and diet affect the many factors that lead to acne. And studies involving actual diets which cleared people's skin.  Those studies were published in the peer reviewed journals your dermatologist should be reading.  And those studies are on the sites where you should be doing your research.

 

But yes, definitely don't rely on papers published in the 80s. Even though the research on nutrients and acne go back many decades, we know so much more now.  Such as how we now know that chronic silent inflammation is at the root of most of our degenerative health conditions, and acne.  And epigenetics--how there aren't enough genes in the human body to account for everything that happens to your body. The development of most health conditions are the result of environmental conditions, i.e. diet and other things you do to yourself.

 

Also, I'm sure you've all begun to notice this, no matter how old you are. Very few people are anywhere near as good at their job as they ought to be.  That includes professionals.  How many bad teachers have you had?  Bad mechanics? Ever hired a contractor to do something around your house?  Watch them every minute or they'll do something stupid it never occurred to you that anyone would do.  


Edited by alternativista, 22 April 2013 - 07:13 PM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!

#14 CBIOT13

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:58 PM

^ Exhibt B - If it is your doctor or derm, Also do your own research.  Always,. They apparently do not read their own journals filled with research papers that contradict the things they tell you about diet.   You can start with the pinned Clinical studies thread filled with research demonstrating the many, many ways nutrients and diet affect the many factors that lead to acne. And studies involving actual diets which cleared people's skin.  Those studies were published in the peer reviewed journals your dermatologist should be reading.  And they are on the sites where you should be doing your research.
 
Also, I'm sure you've all begun to notice this, no matter how old you are. Very few people are anywhere near as good at their job as they ought to be.  That includes professionals.  How many bad teachers have you had?  Bad mechanics? Ever hired a contractor to do something around your house?  Watch them every minute or they'll do something stupid it never occurred to you that anyone would do.  



You're right Alternativista. No professional is perfect at what they do; "to err is human."

But I sure as hell would rather take my chance with a professional than someone I've:

- never met
- have no information on their education
- have no information about their skills
- no idea if they are held accountable by any code of ethics or organizational supervision
- and don't even know their real name

Giving advise on cosmetic tips or what topical products work well is one thing, but when you start to advise cutting out food groups and supplementing outside normal recommendations you enter a new territory Alternativista.

Be sure in your recommendations and realize the effects your suggestions have, because some members will take your advice without a second thought.

And note the original discussion in this thread was not so much your ideas, but how you presented them. While my efforts were to deter people from substituting your advice for a doctor's advise, most people are fine with the different brand of medical knowledge you believe in. It seems to be the forcing of these opinions that have rubbed some posters the wrong way.

Edited by CBIOT13, 22 April 2013 - 02:21 PM.

People never cease to amaze me. Some with their brilliance, others with their ignorance. eusa_think.gif

 

Here's A Few Acne.org Threads Of Mine You May Find Useful/Interesting (updated 7/25/13)

-- DIY Apple Cider Vinegar Toner http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/324606-flakydryoily-skin-try-this/

-- How to Ice Inflammed or Picked at Cysts http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/327532-acne-redness-removal-trick/

-- Milk of Magnesia Uses http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/329385-ways-to-use-milk-of-magnesia-for-oily-skin/

Other Threads Worth Looking At

-- Oily Skin Research Thread: This shows some of our previous efforts and explains the mechanisms behind oily skin.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/326345-oily-skin-research/

-- My failed but enlightening experiment going the "less is more" route, aka "The Caveman Routine"

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/327898-a-minimalist-approach-for-oily-skin/

 

 

 


#15 Quetzlcoatl

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:23 PM

You have to remember, though, that professionals are restricted by law. I'll give you an example; oncologists can only treat cancer with a select few chemotherapies, because those are the only things the FDA and other third party associations allow them to use. Any other use is considered malpractice unless waived. However, there are many other cancer therapies out there that have not been approved for various reasons (that have little to do with efficacy), that are likely more curative than most chemotherapies.

 

In some way, anecdotal evidence supersedes scientific evidence for acne therapeutics, because anecdotes often lead to the desired ends when science fails or has undesirable side effects. Does it matter if we know the mechanism? Maybe, maybe not. I would argue that science doesn't know the mechanism either, and so science is almost just as blind as the rest of us.

 

You might say that my opinion is uninformed and nothing I say can be backed up. Being an immunologist, I would respectfully disagree, and then assert again that dermatologists for the most part have no f*cking clue what they are doing. They are trained to look skin deep, and no deeper. They fail to understand the broad degree to which cell turnover rate and inflammation is linked to environmental influences such as food intake.

 

People come here looking for solutions to their problems when modern medicine fails them. You might not be desperate enough to ask for a stranger's advice, but plenty of people are, because they understand that there is no motive to cause pain. We're all on these boards because we share a problem.



#16 onefatalgoose

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:21 PM

Bottom line.  Do your own research about whatever your doctor or derm tells you as well..  Always,. They apparently do not read their own journals filled with research papers that contradict the things they tell you about diet.   You can start with the pinned Clinical studies thread filled with research demonstrating the many, many ways nutrients and diet affect the many factors that lead to acne. And studies involving actual diets which cleared people's skin.  Those studies were published in the peer reviewed journals your dermatologist should be reading.  And those studies are on the sites where you should be doing your research.

 

Absolutely

 

And Quetzlcoatl is spot on with his post as well.  Cancer patients can only be legally treated with chemo, drug, radiation, or surgery.

This is thanks to the AMA's/Big Pharma's war against nutritional therapies.  They have tried so hard (and successfully) since the early 1900's to smear all non-pharmaceutical practices and practitioners.  It is competition for them, and the last thing they want is for mass public awareness in regards to how effective nutritional therapies truly are.  It sounds like conspiracy, until you realize that this is exactly what is and what has been going on for years.  Your medical doctors get gifts from pharmaceutical companies while attending medical school to encourage the prescription of their pharmaceutical drugs, and to more or less brainwash them into believing all non-AMA practitioners are 'quacks'.  -a term actually created by Big Pharma. 

 

The site Quack Watch...yep...created by Big Pharma and headed by Stephen Barrett who has many connections with Big Agg and the pharmaceutical industry.  The FDA is a revolving door organization with members circulating in and out of Monsanto (company responsible for GMO's, round up, posilac)...basically the most corrupt company on the face of the earth right now.  They are working very diligently to gain control of all grown food by patenting their genetically mutated crops (which are contaminating other non-GMO crops)  And they are now altering salmon.  These people are the ones making the decisions for your health.  They don't require independent testing either.  

 

Also it costs loads of money for them to approve the use of a natural treatment, and once done, they won't make jack from it because nature can't be patented like drugs (unless it's a GMO crop)  Which is why the FDA won't approve these alternative treatments

 

Wow, got a bit off topic, but this is just to make people aware that you really do have to question what your doctors are telling you.  They are being trained by people and in facilities that are currently fighting a war against nutritional therapies, which are actually addressing the underlying metabolic process' behind these diseases like cancer, heart disease, and countless other chronic illness'.

Their ability to 'heal' people rests in prescription drugs, surgery,  and topicals.  And as with everything, there are exceptions, but it's a rarity in the medical field to find a doctor truly aware of the importance of proper nutrition and it's effects on human health

 

Also my grandfather is a practicing medical professional, and my uncle is a dentist


                                                      80%-20% Alkaline forming vs Acid forming Diet

                                                                                `Organic~
                                                                            I don't consume:
                                                                                     *Dairy
                                                                               *Whole grains
                                                                             *Refined sugars
                                                                                 *Table salt
                                                                              *Vegetable oils
                                                                        *Processed/Fast foods
                                           *Genetically Modified Foods (GMOs)
                                                                      As well as the pesticides/herbicides that come with them

                                                      My philosophy: Less externally, more internally

                 Even taking long hot showers in chemically treated tap water is too harsh for acne prone skin

                                                                 (And that's without a face wash)

                         

                                     This site is absolutely loaded with info on curing acne internally

 


#17 whoartthou1

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:11 PM

TBH, if diet is indeed causing acne, it is so difficult to find out what food it is.

 

There are people who break out from ANYTHING grain related and dairy related... but can eat processed sausages as much as they want without breaking out

 

Others only break out from wheat (gluten).

 

Others only dairy

 

Others can break-out from a fucking banana (so if you eat 100% safe diet but are still eating bananas, IT DOESNT MATTER, you will get acne if you are sensitive to bananas).

 

Others from citrus fruits.

 

Hell, my brother eats hot pockets, sour punch, gogurt, WE ARE IDENTICAL TWINS, and my body acne is worse than his.

 

I know a girl who breaks out in SEVERE acne from most commercial american dairy. She can eat wheat/grains all she wants but gets no acne from them.



#18 dejaclairevoyant

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:48 AM

You have to try much, much harder than they do.  

 

You could do that. And possibly eventually fail after multiple years of misery and horrific confusion (and still never have a clear answer of what exactly you're supposed to be doing). Or you could just get the proper medication for your skin problem and have nice skin while pretty much enjoying whatever foods you want, like I do now. :)


Current Skin-Care Regimen (A work in progress):

 

Morning:

Gentle wash with DKR cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil (The  lotion alone wasn't hydrating enough)

Skin 79 Korean BB Cream (excellent stuff)

 

Evening:

Gentle Wash with DKR Cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil

 


#19 dejaclairevoyant

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:03 AM

TBH, if diet is indeed causing acne, it is so difficult to find out what food it is.

 

There are people who break out from ANYTHING grain related and dairy related... but can eat processed sausages as much as they want without breaking out

 

Others only break out from wheat (gluten).

 

Others only dairy

 

Others can break-out from a fucking banana (so if you eat 100% safe diet but are still eating bananas, IT DOESNT MATTER, you will get acne if you are sensitive to bananas).

 

Others from citrus fruits.

 

Hell, my brother eats hot pockets, sour punch, gogurt, WE ARE IDENTICAL TWINS, and my body acne is worse than his.

 

I know a girl who breaks out in SEVERE acne from most commercial american dairy. She can eat wheat/grains all she wants but gets no acne from them.

 

Yes food can definitely cause acne, and everyone has their own unique triggers. For me it's gluten, soy, dairy and anything fermented/probiotic, although I seem to be able to handle small bits of some of those things (not gluten) now that I'm medicated properly. The message I'm trying to spread now is to eat as normally as possible, aside from any obvious triggers or things your body doesn't react well to in general (stomach aches etc). By "normal" I mean what a normal, healthy-minded person who cares about their body while still living a normal happy life would do. I don't mean "normal" in the sense of some alcoholic who drinks all day and eats nothing but Taco Bell, even though people like that are unfortunately quite common.

 

Also... I'd appreciate it if we wouldn't say things like "If you can't eat healthy without getting an eating disorder, don't."  or that people who develop eating disorders have "poor coping skills." I've seen things like that said more than a few times and I've found it insulting. I do not have poor coping skills. I have great coping skills. The problem wasn't my inability to cope with my dietary needs, it was the confusion of having no idea what my dietary needs were. If anyone, at any point in time would have been able to sit me down and give me a healthy diet, I could have followed it without any problems coping. The problems came from some people saying to eat nutrient-dense foods like sweet potatoes and other people saying that sweet potatoes will clog your gut, feed candida and give you a face full of acne. You see? That's not an inability to cope, it's confusion.

 

No one PLANS to get an eating disorder. These things develop because of these vague yet extremely strict ideas about health that unfortunately are perpetuated on sites like this, such as "grains are bad" or "sugar feeds candida." People develop eating disorders because they are desperate to change something about their body and don't know how to do it in a healthy way. No one develops orthorexia on purpose. I didn't know I would get it, I didn't even know that I had it until it had progressed to a point where I was afraid to drink water or eat anything but lettuce.


Edited by dejaclairevoyant, 23 April 2013 - 10:04 AM.

Current Skin-Care Regimen (A work in progress):

 

Morning:

Gentle wash with DKR cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil (The  lotion alone wasn't hydrating enough)

Skin 79 Korean BB Cream (excellent stuff)

 

Evening:

Gentle Wash with DKR Cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil

 


#20 AuguriesofInnocence

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 04:20 AM

I am not saying eating junk food wont make acne worse in some people, if I drink too much alcohol I get a few spots. But food doesnt CAUSE acne, hormones do. If you have balanced hormones you can eat anything and put lard on your face and you wont break out. What I am saying is, it is probably not possible to cure hormonal acne with diet alone in most cases. btw soda is bad for anybody I never touch the stuff...

Well back in the days I had mild / moderate acne. Than when I came to the US I started eating junk food, cola etc. and my acne became quite severe. So I think a good diet helps in controlling acne but its not a total cure.



Thank you! Thats another reason I posted this, I had anorexia as a teen and again in my 20s by trying to cure acne, I was really underweight and nutritionally deficient. Starving yourself wont help acne, being miserable and guilty wont help acne. If youre not enjoying your life, whats the point of having clear skin?

""I definelty agree with you about all the people getting preachy about diet affecting acne. And quite frankly, for most people diet has NOTHING to do with acne. I always get a kick out of the people with like 3000 posts that come on this website and preach about how specific diets affect acne.

I have had three dermatologists tell me that for 80% of the population,diet does not affect acne. Acne is cyclical, and there's many, many factors that go into whether you have acne or not. Diet is ONE thing that, in combination with others, can affect acne. It is by no means the root cause, and anyone with an education in this area will agree with that. But in reality the most preachy people seem to be the ones without degrees LOL.

The best thing to do? If you see those members that have tons of posts, with signatures that talk about the eight types of foods to never eat LOL, and that seem to be full bore into alternative medicine and against "Big Pharmacy" lol; just skip the thread.

These people come on here and try to play doctor or dermatologist, with nothing but google and a warped view of the medical industry to guide them.

But don't let these people bother you too much. For every annoying idiot that preaches how dairy or a gluten free diet will cure acne for everyone, there's 10 others that know better but don't want to waste the energy to call out the guy.""


I posted all of that in a similar topic a week or so ago, and to save myself some time I just copy and pasted it here lol. There's a lot of people on this website that are like that, and the problem I've seen is they try to force it as an acne cure, and in reality it only is for maybe 10% of acne sufferers.

I find it comical though how much these people think they know, and they have no problem creating thier own thoeries and reasoning to back up their claims and then pass it off as a fact. Some of their claims are even in direct conflict with theories in the industry; that's people using Google to correct people with an actual education on the subject !!!

LOL I hope you see the irony in that.

THE MODS REALLY SHOULD WATCH for and warn these Forum Derms and Forum Doctors because someone may:

1) develop an eating disorder ( although rare, I saw a post of someone who did, and claims it was from this)

2) hurt themselves because of the lack of nutritional value some of these diets have.

3) experience depression amd anxiety due to the fact that the individual thinks it's his/her fault they have acne, when it is NOT


CALLING ALL MODS
I've seen enough threads like this one, when will you start warning the repeatedly preachy diet people ???



If you find that a low-glycemic diet and metformin help your acne thats good, Im saying you shouldnt cut out ALL carbs, or ALL protein or ALL of anything. Eat healthy just dont go crazy with it. For me, the less carbs I ate the worse my acne got, I was eating fish veggies and hummus NO sugar No dairy etc and my acne was horrible. Now since Ive treated the hormone problems I eat everything I want in modderation and I do not break out, the only thing which causes any pimples in me is too much alcohol but alcohol is a toxin anyway. Sometimes I want to have a little fun, so I drink on the weekend. The difference is, I dont get cystic acne which takes weeks to go away, or painful acne, I get a few small red bumps which go away overnight anyhow. *Hormones*

If you have food allergies, they may manifest as acne-like symptoms but true acne is hormonal.

But food does affect hormones, right? Right now I'm taking metformin which balances my blood sugar after I eat food. My males hormones have gone from very high to more normal. I assume regulating blood sugar with low glycemic load food would have the same affect? Therefore it would have an affect on hormones?



Like Ive said...if you have found a diet/plan which works for you, that is great. I am genuinely happy for you.

However...dont assume the same will work for everyone. I agree that acne is inflammatory so is arthritis, so is psoriasis etc. If you are sensitive to gluten or nightshades or dairy, sure cut it out. But dont live every moment in fear of what youre eating so much so that your diet becomes a bigger burden than your acne! Been there done that got the t-shirt. I have PCOS so for me nothing was going to help except birth control and anti-DHT supplements. People who do not have acne can eat whatever they want and they wont get acne, unfair but true. Certain foods will exacerbate acne. Im not debating that. Im saying since I am treating my hormone imbalance I have been able to eat any foods without getting ance.

My original point is I am annoyed the fact that a lot of posters act like everybody should know this nutrition stuff already, cause its SO obvioushuh.png.('Sigh"?) Ive asked people questions and gotten terse, almost rude replies like I was a a dumbass for not knowing about linoleic acid, phytonutrients and all that jazz.Ive done a lot of research too and tried a lot of approaches so Im not completely clueless, but if someone is new to these ideas we should help them learn not put them off by being overbearing. We just need to be kinder to others and less condescending, that way we all trade information and everybody wins...get my drift?

Sigh. Why do we have to do this again? Especially after so many success stories. I don't get it. I haven't seen a' follow this and you'll clear your skin 100% guaranteed post' in ages.  The most negative posts I've seen are the ones just like the OP. 

Diet affects your skin and everything else happening in your body. Period. It is not possible for it not to. But it isn't the only thing that leads to acne and you can address other things and be doing enough to not have the symptom of acne appear. And you can eat the best diet possible and still have acne because of other unhealthy habits or some issue that needs additional attention, like thyroid function for example. Although for most people that will get better with improved diet as well.

And then there's stress. If you can't eat right without developing a disorder, then don't do it. At least not without addressing your emotional issues first. Then again, diet affects that too.

Also, almost every time someone starts one of these threads about how healthy they ate, they almost always list numerous examples of extreme, unhealthy diet habits and behaviors. Only apples and nuts?  Making yourself nuts?

I also want to add that I saw many derms who told me diet had nothing to do with acne, and I took many of their drugs from antibiotics to accutane for over a decade. And I tried several birth control pills. None of it ever helped. I wish someone had told me the truth about diet sooner.
 

 


If you have food allergies, they may manifest as acne-like symptoms but true acne is hormonal.

But food does affect hormones, right? Right now I'm taking metformin which balances my blood sugar after I eat food. My males hormones have gone from very high to more normal. I assume regulating blood sugar with low glycemic load food would have the same affect? Therefore it would have an affect on hormones?

Yes it does. Also, true acne is an inflammatory condition. Hormones merely exacerbate the problem. And allergies can exacerbate true acne as well.
 



I like your post it makes sense :-)Im not debating whether or not food exacerbates acne in some people. For me, at this particular time, my issue is with the way people are acting as if they know everything and as if were all a bunch of morons for not knowing the Diet Rules of Acne. Not everybody got their degree at Nutrition School. Thats why were on these boards to learn the best ways to treat acne. All Im asking is that if youre going to post on nutrition or anything else for the matter, check the attitude. Who needs it?

TBH, if diet is indeed causing acne, it is so difficult to find out what food it is.

 

There are people who break out from ANYTHING grain related and dairy related... but can eat processed sausages as much as they want without breaking out

 

Others only break out from wheat (gluten).

 

Others only dairy

 

Others can break-out from a fucking banana (so if you eat 100% safe diet but are still eating bananas, IT DOESNT MATTER, you will get acne if you are sensitive to bananas).

 

Others from citrus fruits.

 

Hell, my brother eats hot pockets, sour punch, gogurt, WE ARE IDENTICAL TWINS, and my body acne is worse than his.

 

I know a girl who breaks out in SEVERE acne from most commercial american dairy. She can eat wheat/grains all she wants but gets no acne from them.

 

Yes food can definitely cause acne, and everyone has their own unique triggers. For me it's gluten, soy, dairy and anything fermented/probiotic, although I seem to be able to handle small bits of some of those things (not gluten) now that I'm medicated properly. The message I'm trying to spread now is to eat as normally as possible, aside from any obvious triggers or things your body doesn't react well to in general (stomach aches etc). By "normal" I mean what a normal, healthy-minded person who cares about their body while still living a normal happy life would do. I don't mean "normal" in the sense of some alcoholic who drinks all day and eats nothing but Taco Bell, even though people like that are unfortunately quite common.

 

Also... I'd appreciate it if we wouldn't say things like "If you can't eat healthy without getting an eating disorder, don't."  or that people who develop eating disorders have "poor coping skills." I've seen things like that said more than a few times and I've found it insulting. I do not have poor coping skills. I have great coping skills. The problem wasn't my inability to cope with my dietary needs, it was the confusion of having no idea what my dietary needs were. If anyone, at any point in time would have been able to sit me down and give me a healthy diet, I could have followed it without any problems coping. The problems came from some people saying to eat nutrient-dense foods like sweet potatoes and other people saying that sweet potatoes will clog your gut, feed candida and give you a face full of acne. You see? That's not an inability to cope, it's confusion.

 

No one PLANS to get an eating disorder. These things develop because of these vague yet extremely strict ideas about health that unfortunately are perpetuated on sites like this, such as "grains are bad" or "sugar feeds candida." People develop eating disorders because they are desperate to change something about their body and don't know how to do it in a healthy way. No one develops orthorexia on purpose. I didn't know I would get it, I didn't even know that I had it until it had progressed to a point where I was afraid to drink water or eat anything but lettuce.



I agree with that, plenty of bad doctors out there. Ive been misdiagnosed 4 times in the past 2 years with conditions I diagnosed myself after researching. Am I a genius? Of course not but I take my health seriously and I dont stop looking till I find the answers. Why are there so many bad doctors? Because doctors arent trained in rare conditions, because sometimes youre just a number to them, because a lot are well-intentioned but they only see you for a few minutes before rushing off to their next patient.

Bottom line: what do you call the guy who faild his boards 3 times and graduated last in his class?

"Doctor"...

 

^ Exhibt B -  There's your negativity, ignorance and insults.

 

Bottom line.  Do your own research about whatever your doctor or derm tells you as well..  Always,. They apparently do not read their own journals filled with research papers that contradict the things they tell you about diet.   You can start with the pinned Clinical studies thread filled with research demonstrating the many, many ways nutrients and diet affect the many factors that lead to acne. And studies involving actual diets which cleared people's skin.  Those studies were published in the peer reviewed journals your dermatologist should be reading.  And those studies are on the sites where you should be doing your research.

 

But yes, definitely don't rely on papers published in the 80s. Even though the research on nutrients and acne go back many decades, we know so much more now.  Such as how we now know that chronic silent inflammation is at the root of most of our degenerative health conditions, and acne.  And epigenetics--how there aren't enough genes in the human body to account for everything that happens to your body. The development of most health conditions are the result of environmental conditions, i.e. diet and other things you do to yourself.

 

Also, I'm sure you've all begun to notice this, no matter how old you are. Very few people are anywhere near as good at their job as they ought to be.  That includes professionals.  How many bad teachers have you had?  Bad mechanics? Ever hired a contractor to do something around your house?  Watch them every minute or they'll do something stupid it never occurred to you that anyone would do.  


Edited by AuguriesofInnocence, 24 April 2013 - 04:16 AM.