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Advice/ How To Make An Sa Lotion + Vit C, Vit E


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#1 jordeyy

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:47 PM

im male, 18, 85kg~ and currently on 25mg of accutane (i wanted a low dose). it seems like its working but is flaring up a bit and aloott of whiteheads have become more noticeable, aswell as there being redness from old and existing spots. i also have a lot of dead skin. i was going to try paulas choice bha gel but its so expensive, i reckon i could make something better for less. my skin isnt irritated nor is it painful or anything. its not massively dry either. heres what i wanted to include so far:

-2% Salycilic Acid - remove dead skin cells, unclog pores
-7.5% Vitamin C - improve skin tone and health
-rosehip oil - possibly improve tone/ marks (vit E), improve texture

im not sure if i should be adding anything else to that. maybe niacinamide? i need something to reduce redness.
also, what should i be looking for when buying each of those, and how should i mix it? 
i want to be able to put it on and leave it on all day, how would i make it thicker, like a gel?
the vit c and SA amounts arent very high as i cant be using things that are too harsh due to the accutane (although my skin seems fine and not overly sensitive)
thanks for any tips/ advice 

edit: the title should read: advice/ how to make a topical SA lotion


Edited by jordeyy, 16 April 2013 - 02:22 PM.


#2 txngrl

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:03 PM

how long have you been on Accutane?  You're really not supposed to use any other medicated product on your skin during your course.  You can end up over-drying and irritating your skin more.

My son is on day 15 and uses Aveeno ultra-calming cleanser.  It's very gentle, soap-free, and is supposed to help reduce redness.  He really likes it.  Yes the whiteheads will come to the surface more, it's happening with him and is totally normal.  Basically wherever there is a clogged pore or blackhead, it might become a whitehead because the Accutane pushes everything out through the pores.  It's gross, but once that's done, think of how clear your pores will be :)

 

best wishes on your course :)



#3 nycqueen

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:13 PM

cosign txngrl... You should refrain from using another acne treatment, like salycilic acid cleansers during your trial of accutane. Try switching to a gentle cleanser like Cetaphil Gentle Cleanser while on your accutane regimen. One of the side effects of accutane is severe dry skin... Salycilic acid will only exascerbate the problem. Good luck! :)



#4 jordeyy

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:24 PM

as stated in the OP i dont have severe dry skin, or any other bad side effects, and my skin doesnt feel too fragile. ive had closed comedones for ageessss and just wanted something to help them along/ unclog them, aswell as making something to soothe and heal my skin (vit c, vit e, and possibly others). with only using 2% SA if i did react badly it would take a while to notice which by then i could just stop using it 



#5 Tom Busby

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 10:11 AM

Home compounding is a good idea. You can mail order powdered salicylic acid -- it's about $15 for 8 ounces. SA is soluble in 191 proof EverClear, which costs about $8, and is sold in most states, but in some states it's not legal, so then you could buy 100% isopropanol from a chem lab supply store although it's more expensive than EverClear.

 

SA is not at all solvent in water, but it will remain dissolved and in suspension in a body wash, Dove Sensitive Skin for example. Keep the container sealed or the alcohol will slowly evaporate and the product will get a little bit too sticky.

 

To measure the SA, you can mail order a small scale, accurate to 0.1 gram, made by AWS for example, for about $30. Then you can buy a glass pipette that measures 1ml, which costs about $8, or you can buy a glass syringe that measures 5ml for about $8.  The syringe is a little easier to use.

 

SA completely dissolves in alcohol at room temperature at a ratio of 1 part SA to 4 parts alcohol. If you want to make 100 ml of a 1% SA product, you would measure 1 gram of SA on the scale and pour it into a small glass container like a shot glass, and add 4ml of alcohol and stir, and then pour the dissolved SA into 100ml of whatever wash product you like.  SA will make Dove body wash slightly thick, probably because the SA has a low pH and it reacts with the starch or the sodium chloride in the Dove, so you would start with 80ml of product, to leave room to add distilled water or more Dove to get a useable consistency.

 

Before you start, weigh the empty container, which will be an empty used-up shampoo bottle with a screw top, so you can then subtract the weight of the empty container from the weight on the scale, so you know how much Dove to start with in the container, then add the dissolved SA, and shake well.

 

When you make your own, you can start with 0.5% SA, in a small empty plastic bottle of about 150ml, and see if you like the results, and you could try a 1% SA but not more than 2%. I like 0.5% SA because it doesn't smell strongly -- even a 0.75% SA product smells too strong to be really useable in my opinion.  You could skip the empty container and just make a very large batch in whatever original product you start with, but it is easier to make small batches when you are starting out, to see what you like.

 

I like 0.1% lemongrass oil in body wash, but tea tree oil is fine too, and you might like to try Manuka and Kanuke from New Zealand, as they are considered the "better" types of tea tree oil by some people, but you’ll have to experiment to see what percentage you like.



#6 jordeyy

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 11:44 AM

 thanks, thats some very useful information! ive got a few questions if you dont mind


what should i look for when buying SA powder?
is there any way of measuring the SA without the micro scale? theyre fairly expensive in the uk 
also, how would i go about adding the rosehip oil and l ascorbic acid? 

i need to find something else to add aswell to reduce redness. 


ive tried manuka honey before but tbh i dont think my skin liked it and it definately didnt help.

 


Edited by jordeyy, 18 April 2013 - 12:08 PM.


#7 Tom Busby

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 05:58 PM

For example, you can buy a micro scale here for $12 plus shipping : http://compare.ebay....mTypes&var=sbar

I don’t know anything about this seller but most ebay sellers are legit and it’s just an example -- you could look at UK ebay for something similar.

 

When I decided to buy Salicylic Acid, I googled “Salicylic Acid USP” (which stands for United States Pharmacopeia).  This method works reasonably well.  You might be able to google “European Pharmacopeia” or something like that to find any EU product that are pharmaceuticals.  Please reply back and tell me what it's called in the UK.

 

I can’t answer your rosehip oil and ascorbic acid questions, but you can find the answer by googling each term along with words like “solubility” or maybe “specific gravity” to discover their scientific properties.

 

I have never used manuka honey -- I meant the essential oils.



#8 Tom Busby

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 06:22 PM

Aaah, after I posted I remembered -- in the UK and the EU the word for solubility is usually “miscibility or “miscible in.”  You would google those words with whatever you are looking for.

 

Immiscible means insoluble. 

 

In the US, "solubility" is the word usually used to describe the properties of liquids and powders to mix in certain proportions and to form a homogeneous solution, that is, the powder doesn’t fall out of the liquid solution.  I suspect in the UK and the EU, the term “miscibility” is often used to describe powders and their solubility in liquids -- in the US I think we use the word “miscibility” primarily to describe the solubility of one liquid in another, but it isn’t incorrect to use either word here in the US.



#9 Tom Busby

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:43 PM

I just thought of a universal way to measure small quantities -- the cap of Bic pen, the "Round Stic" kind.  I measured the volume of the cap, using my finger on the bottom to cover the holes, measuring the water with a tiny 1.0ml capacity syringe, and found that the pen cap holds almost exactly 2 ml of water.

 

Salicylic Acid has a density of 1.44 grams per ml.

 

So if you used the Bic pen cap like a small scoop, and pushed it into the Salicylic Acid powder, you would be able to measure about 2.8 grams of SA per scoop. 

 

For example, if you have a 150 ml bottle of some kind body wash, one scoop would make a 1.8% SA product.

 

This way you won't have to buy a digital scale.



#10 jordeyy

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 12:36 PM

I just thought of a universal way to measure small quantities -- the cap of Bic pen, the "Round Stic" kind.  I measured the volume of the cap, using my finger on the bottom to cover the holes, measuring the water with a tiny 1.0ml capacity syringe, and found that the pen cap holds almost exactly 2 ml of water.

 

Salicylic Acid has a density of 1.44 grams per ml.

 

So if you used the Bic pen cap like a small scoop, and pushed it into the Salicylic Acid powder, you would be able to measure about 2.8 grams of SA per scoop. 

 

For example, if you have a 150 ml bottle of some kind body wash, one scoop would make a 1.8% SA product.

 

This way you won't have to buy a digital scale.
 

thanks for all the help! i actually didnt buy SA powder, and instead bought a 30% SA peel liquid, with the other 70% just being alcohol, meaning i can measure using volume not weight.

vitamin c is water soluble so distilled water will be fine for this. i might not be able to add rosehip oil due to it containing vitamin A, but might be okay if i just add a tiny amount. 
if i'm putting oils into the mixture then im going to need an emulsifier but i dont know which would be non comedonegenic.

i was also thinking of putting some aloe ver gel in to thicken it up so its not like water, and also to soothe/ reduce redness.

is there anything else i should add in to reduce red marks/ even skin tone (this is the main thing)?



#11 Tom Busby

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 05:39 PM

I think that all the peels have a small amount of gelatin in them (so they will set-up when drying) and I think that gelatin and oil probably mix into an emulsion. I've never tried home compounding with any kind of peel, so please tell us how this works out.

 

What percent of SA are you planning to make?  Maybe make a small batch at 5% SA and do a test spot to see if it burns or turns your skin red.  It would be easier to dilute or increase the SA by experimenting with small batches.  (I usually mix small batches in a shot glass because it's easy to clean.)  I'm curious about the maximum useable percent of SA in a leave on lotion, so please tell us how this works out.

 

I think that adding jojoba oil will keep the gelatin in the peel from setting up on your skin, which is probably a good thing for a leave on lotion.

 

Is SA peel an over the counter product in the UK?  It isn't here in the US.



#12 jordeyy

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 03:08 PM

i dont think it has gelatin in it but cant be sure. its a 30% peel and has residue at the bottom, im assuming this is saturated SA, is that because more alcohol is needed?


i wanted the mixture to be 2% or less. ive ordered other stuff i want to add to it but have to wait till they arrive so thought i would make a more basic one. when i put it on it kindo itched/ burned a little bit, im not sure if this is bad or not. the mixture was 16ml water, 16 ml moisturiser and 2.3ml SA solution (@30% SA). by my math this comes out with a mixture around 2%. my face was slightly red after putting it on, but nothing like its been when ive done 10% or 20% peels (this isnt meant to be a peel, its meant to be a daily topical). im not sure whether i should keep applying it, because im not sure whether its doing damage or not. 

what im going to be adding to the SA is jojoba oil, aloe vera, and vitamin C. i cant add rosehip oil as it has too much vitamin A. i need to add something else to help even out my skintone but im not sure what eusa_think.gif 

as for OTC, i dont know any shops that sell it but you can buy it online from alot of places (ebay, amazon etc). 



#13 Tom Busby

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:09 PM

Eucerin Redness Relief is a lotion with a slight green tint.  I've found a little bit goes a long way and mixing it 1:10 or 1:15 with a face lotion covers redness -- not a lot but a little.

 

You're right to make a 2% SA lotion -- I was wrong when I wrote 5%, as the EU approves up to 2% for  leave-on lotions.  You can google to EU report with Salicylic Acid and "Opinion of the Scientific Committee on Cosmetic Products" and the report might provide some more information useful to you.

 

You have light colored skin, right?  People who are 1 or 2 on the Fitzpatrick Scale can use SA, but people with darker skin might have a reaction, where the SA causes the melanin to clump into dark spots.

 



#14 jordeyy

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:43 PM

Eucerin Redness Relief is a lotion with a slight green tint.  I've found a little bit goes a long way and mixing it 1:10 or 1:15 with a face lotion covers redness -- not a lot but a little.

 

You're right to make a 2% SA lotion -- I was wrong when I wrote 5%, as the EU approves up to 2% for  leave-on lotions.  You can google to EU report with Salicylic Acid and "Opinion of the Scientific Committee on Cosmetic Products" and the report might provide some more information useful to you.

 

You have light colored skin, right?  People who are 1 or 2 on the Fitzpatrick Scale can use SA, but people with darker skin might have a reaction, where the SA causes the melanin to clump into dark spots.

 


does eucerin redness relief contain anything that actually evens skin tone? as i wouldnt want to just cover it up with a tint. 

yeah im going to be going for either a 2% or 1.5%. 

yeah im english/ irish, so my skin is fairly light. i would say im a 2 on the scale, but i dont find it TOO difficult to tan. 

for the mixture ive made while i wait for the other stuff to arrive, i put a small amount on and it tends to itch/ very slightly burn for about 5-10 mins then it feels fine,  im not sure if this is bad or not i wouldnt of thought i would feel the SA at such low percentage



#15 Tom Busby

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:32 PM

Eucerin is light tint of green, that's all, but I've noticed the SA seems to bleach my skin just a little bit, and very very slowly, which may even out some redness over time.

 

I'm a "2" skin tone also, and I've been using 0.65% SA in Dove Sensitive Skin body wash for about 3 months.  However, I’m not looking for exfoliation, just to lower the pH.  I’ve read that SA will exfoliate at concentrations between 1% and 2%.



#16 armadillo

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 02:01 PM

Just to let you know: Vitamin C dissolved in water will not be absorbed into your skin. It will just crystallise on the surface as the water evaporates. To my knowledge, it would be very difficult to make a serum like that at home. L-ascorbic [the ester form of ascorbic acid] acid is very unstable and goes rancid/oxidizes very quickly. Plain old ascorbic acid goes rancid even quicker plus because it's an acid, it would be quite irritating, that's why you need L-ascorbic acid, which just converts into ascorbic acid once it penetrates the lipid membranes minus the irritation. You'd need a strong preservative to make it worthwhile your effort. I'm not sure what kind of a chemical vehicle/carrier would 'deliver' the vitamin into the skin and be effective that you can purchase over the internet that's cheap. I believe Propelyne Glycol may work, but don't take my word for it. I think you are better off just buying a Vitamin C serum. I definitely don't think that the SA and the Vit C could co-exist in one product that you can make at home.


Edited by armadillo, 07 May 2013 - 02:09 PM.