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A Minimalist Approach For Oily Skin?


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#1 CBIOT13

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:29 PM

Just thinking out loud here, so if anyone has input on this that'd be great. I'd especially like to hear from Jofo and Omnivium if either of you read this.

 

So some how I managed to run out of my usual face wash (Cetaphil), and accidently knocked over my bottle of ACV, on the same freaking day lol. I wasn't able to make it to a Walmart or Drugstore to get some more, so for a few days I just rinsed my face when I showered, expecting horrendous results.

 

BUT I was really pleasantly surprised. My skin "seemed" less oily and just generally healthier looking (I know that's something tough to quantify, sorry). No new zits, irritation, redness; I still am confused and waiting for the breakout from it LOL. 

 

And so it got me thinking, could a "minimalist" regime have some merit towards helping oily skin? I'm not talking caveman, or even water only, because every now and then you're face has to be cleaned, period. I'm thinking more showering and washing face with water as usual, and only using a cleanser every other day or so?

 

I honestly cannot remember the last time I did not use some sort of product daily on face, so I really am curious to see how it responds to this. After some research, I came across some interesting info.  

 

1) In a few small clinical studies, BP was shown to INCREASE sebum production in the majority of users. The longer the product was used, the larger the increase. I don't know about anyone else, but probably a full 5 years of my skin care regimen included BP in some shape or form.

 

2) While this is not a fact by any means, there is a certain school of thought out there that says most cleansers stimulate oil APPEARANCE in two ways. One is that they overdry and irritate skin,leading to an increased sebum response. Again, this effect is amplified the longer a product is used. And two, when you cleanse your skin, you are basically unclogging your pores. If you have acne, this is very good. But from an oily skin perspective, one could hypothesize that open pores means more oil is able to flow to the surface and it is more noticeable as it sits on top of your squeaky clean skin.

 

 

So I plan to do this "minimalist" approach for awhile and see how it goes. I think it could have some effect on oily skin because your skin will become less irritated and also have more dead skin cells on it in which to impede and absorb the oil (sounds gross, but I'm talking about dead skin cells on the microscopic level, so it's not something anyone can see with the naked eye). I'll update accordingly.

 

I used a lot of products to get rid of teenage acne, but once that went away I still continued with my products thinking it was what I was supposed to do. Maybe I was wrong... I have been tapering off in the last few years, but my routine is still more than most people with regular skin.

 

 Like I said, I'm curious to hear from other oily skin members. Have you always used products on your skin religiously?



#2 Jofo

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 02:07 PM

2) While this is not a fact by any means, there is a certain school of thought out there that says most cleansers stimulate oil APPEARANCE in two ways. One is that they overdry and irritate skin,leading to an increased sebum response. Again, this effect is amplified the longer a product is used.

 

I think I hear bryan approaching lol.

 

For what it's worth, I have been washing my face with nothing but water for the past few months and have applied only a light moisturizer to my skin (aside from patch testing that I'm doing with EGCg). I honestly can't say that I've noticed any change in my oily skin as a result of tossing out my facial cleanser.

 

I will say, though, that when I let the dead skin build up on my nose for a couple of days, it does appear less shiny. But I get a strangely large amount of dead skin on my nose and I can't help but rub it off when I get out of the shower. So I wouldn't be surprised if letting your dead skin build up did reduce shine a little bit.

 

I think you should definitely go for it if you think that it's doable. It's always good to experiment with different products and regimens.



#3 CBIOT13

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:59 PM

2) While this is not a fact by any means, there is a certain school of thought out there that says most cleansers stimulate oil APPEARANCE in two ways. One is that they overdry and irritate skin,leading to an increased sebum response. Again, this effect is amplified the longer a product is used.

 

I think I hear bryan approaching lol.

 

For what it's worth, I have been washing my face with nothing but water for the past few months and have applied only a light moisturizer to my skin (aside from patch testing that I'm doing with EGCg). I honestly can't say that I've noticed any change in my oily skin as a result of tossing out my facial cleanser.

 

I will say, though, that when I let the dead skin build up on my nose for a couple of days, it does appear less shiny. But I get a strangely large amount of dead skin on my nose and I can't help but rub it off when I get out of the shower. So I wouldn't be surprised if letting your dead skin build up did reduce shine a little bit.

 

I think you should definitely go for it if you think that it's doable. It's always good to experiment with different products and regimens.

 

 

HAHA oh my god he's probably waiting in the shadows with the only study he ever references, I believe it's like by like Klingman or something lol.

 

And yea I read about people getting the "dead skin mask" when doing the caveman routine. I have no intentions of going that extreme lol, we'll see if that happens with what I'm doing. 



#4 Jofo

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 05:19 PM

I'm interested to see if you notice any positive effects. My acne improved when I started cutting products out of my regimen and stuck to just the bare minimum.

 

By the way, what you mentioned about BP is interesting because I've long suspected that it may have caused my oily skin. BP was a mainstay of my regimen for 2-3 years, during which time I applied it only to my nose. Now my nose is far, far more oily than the rest of my face. Of course, I didn't notice how oily my nose was until long after I stopped BP, so I don't know if BP caused it to be oily or if it was already oily.



#5 CBIOT13

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 06:03 PM

I'm interested to see if you notice any positive effects. My acne improved when I started cutting products out of my regimen and stuck to just the bare minimum.

 

By the way, what you mentioned about BP is interesting because I've long suspected that it may have caused my oily skin. BP was a mainstay of my regimen for 2-3 years, during which time I applied it only to my nose. Now my nose is far, far more oily than the rest of my face. Of course, I didn't notice how oily my nose was until long after I stopped BP, so I don't know if BP caused it to be oily or if it was already oily.

 

 

Yea when I first noticed myself having oily skin (around puberty) I went pretty much all out against it. I used pro-Active after going off antibiotics, and when I wasn't happy with that I started using 10% BP washes at least twice a day. My skin was super dry, and I have to imagine that's where I may have caused some damage. 

 

I have a hard time believing my oily skin is genetic, as my sister has skin like a model and neither of my parents say they really ever had acne. Even in my huge family, I can only pinpoint a couple people that have had acne, and really only one that had oily skin.

 

So either I screwed myself with strong products or the stars aligned perfectly and resulted in me getting a trait not usually found in my family's gene pool. I'm hoping the first one because I can fix that LOL.



#6 Omnivium

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:38 AM

So I plan to do this "minimalist" approach for awhile and see how it goes. I think it could have some effect on oily skin because your skin will become less irritated and also have more dead skin cells on it in which to impede and absorb the oil (sounds gross, but I'm talking about dead skin cells on the microscopic level, so it's not something anyone can see with the naked eye). I'll update accordingly.

 

I think this is why washing less makes you look less oily. When you don't wash, your dead skin just builds up and covers up or absorbs the oil, but I don't think you are actually producing less oil. 

 

I have more experience with this than you probably thought, so I'll just jump right in. A few years ago, when I was young and dumb, I came across Waterwater's thread called NOT WASHING MY FACE FOR ONE MONTH or something like that. I believed everything the guy said about washing being bad for your skin, so I went on the caveman regimen. I was on it for 3 horrible months, the whole time expecting my acne to get better. My acne actually got a lot worse, and stayed that way until I stopped the caveman regimen. But the other things I noticed were my face was covered in dead skin, and my face did not look oily at all. The dead skin was a little noticeable and really annoying, but I think it was the reason I didn't look oily. After 3 months I admitted defeat and went to a derm and used everything he gave me: doxycycline, duac, and differin. Very soon after starting those, my skin looked the oiliest it ever has, due to the harsh duac and differin. So in conclusion, I agree that washing less makes you look less oily, but I think it's only about how much skin you have on your face to cover up the oil.

 

Now that I'm on accutane, I wanted to wash my face as little as possible, but if I don't wash for just one day a bunch of dead skin builds up on my face and starts flaking, so I have to wash once a day to prevent that. I'm only using the Cetaphil gentle cleanser on my face now. I think washing less is better for your skin, but the downside is dead skin on your face.

 

Lately I've been thinking hormones were the only thing that could affect oil production, but I'll keep an open mind. Can you post some links to the studies about bp increasing oil production, and do they explain how it would do that? On the other hand I have been using bp on and off for about 7 years, and my face does seem unnaturally oily somehow. My brother actually has dry skin, and my sister's skin is only a little oily. Maybe it is possible for topicals to affect oily skin somehow.



#7 CBIOT13

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:41 PM

Yea I think I can strike a balance between washing just enough to get clean but also little enough to reduce some shine. And quite frankly, I'd be just as happy with an appearance in oil reduction as an actual reduction lol. I have nothing against oily skin except how it makes me look if I don't blot it by the end of the day, and I could do without waking up with a super shiny face.

 

There are numerous snippets of studies that reference BP increasing oil production over time, but I cannot find the full articles for many of them. The only ones I'd be comfortable citing in a research paper are these.

http://www.skinthera...s/2007.6/8.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6227330

 

The first one is a study of 65 subjects who were each given one of three topicals and then their sebum levels were measured every few days. Two of the three topicals did in fact reduce oil slightly, but the BP showed a moderate increase surprisingly. I don't think it was a very long study either, so I'd imagine using BP for years would significantly magnify this effect.

 

The second gives less info but shows the same results, and hypothesizes a reason for the increase.

 

EDIT:

 

My guess for this "dual personality" of BP is because it is a chemical that causes a reaction that is very specific to the person using it. I think if one has light acne, but dry skin or normal skin, it would not cause a noticeable change. But if one is predisposed to combination or oily skin through genetics, it seems like BP can increase oil production.

 

Those studies actually support what I'm saying too, because if you look at those studies all of the test subjects already had moderate acne. From this one could say that all the patients may be genetically more likely to have combo or oily skin, as this is likely one of the reasons they have acne in the first place. And therefore when the patients used BP, they all registered an increase because they were more sensitive to this side effect.

 

I'd be curious to see a study testing how BP affects oil production across various skin types. If BP was tested on dry vs oily skin subjects, I'd have to guess it would increase oil for the oily skinned people and show little to no affect for the dry skinned ones.


Edited by CBIOT13, 12 April 2013 - 03:06 PM.


#8 Jofo

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:17 PM

I have a hard time believing my oily skin is genetic, as my sister has skin like a model and neither of my parents say they really ever had acne. Even in my huge family, I can only pinpoint a couple people that have had acne, and really only one that had oily skin.

 

I question whether it's genetic as well, at least to an extent. No one else in my family has oily skin. I even have a brother who is prone to the exact same type of nose acne as me, but his skin is bone dry. I'm hopeful that oiliness can be reduced, though.



#9 Omnivium

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:03 AM

I question whether it's genetic as well, at least to an extent. No one else in my family has oily skin. I even have a brother who is prone to the exact same type of nose acne as me, but his skin is bone dry. I'm hopeful that oiliness can be reduced, though.

 

Sounds just like my brother, except he doesn't have much acne or oil. I also agree, it has to be more than just genetics that causes oily skin.



#10 CBIOT13

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 02:21 PM

Well this my two week update, and I am stopping this routine. It was a good experiment, but not necessarily something good for my skin in the long term. I did notice that it reduced the appearance of oil by a fairly significant amount, but that was because my skin was very dull and seemed slightly gritty.

Washing with only water for a couple weeks did show me that I personally can go awhile without my usual products and still be okay, but in the long run it does seem negatively affect the appearance of my skin. All acne prone /oily skin does need a cleanser, but the goal is to use something that gets you clean without irritating your face.

#11 Tom Busby

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:57 PM

Your write up makes it seem like you like to explore your options, so I'm passing on an idea.

 

Most liquid cleaners have a pH of 7, and most bar soaps have a pH of about 8, but I've read that skin has a normal pH of 5.5.  Also, I've read that Johnson & Johnson sells a liquid cleaner called "5.5," which is supposed to enhance the skin's "acid mantle," but which is not sold in US.

 

Based on this information and other similar points, about 4 months ago I compounded a 0.65% Salicylic Acid body wash with Dove Sensitive Skin as the base.  It doesn't make my skin any less oily, but my skin has a healthier tone, more even I think.

 

Don't do this unless you are a "1" or "2" on the Fitzpatrick Scale though, as Salicylic Acid may cause melanin to clump up in people with darker skin.

 

I also have very oily skin, which is not a bad thing and you could be pleased about it, as you will probably have relatively fewer wrinkles as you age, but you won’t notice much difference compared to your peer group until you get into your 40’s and 50’s.



#12 CBIOT13

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 04:23 PM

Your write up makes it seem like you like to explore your options, so I'm passing on an idea.
 
Most liquid cleaners have a pH of 7, and most bar soaps have a pH of about 8, but I've read that skin has a normal pH of 5.5.  Also, I've read that Johnson & Johnson sells a liquid cleaner called "5.5," which is supposed to enhance the skin's "acid mantle," but which is not sold in US.
 
Based on this information and other similar points, about 4 months ago I compounded a 0.65% Salicylic Acid body wash with Dove Sensitive Skin as the base.  It doesn't make my skin any less oily, but my skin has a healthier tone, more even I think.
 
Don't do this unless you are a "1" or "2" on the Fitzpatrick Scale though, as Salicylic Acid may cause melanin to clump up in people with darker skin.
 
I also have very oily skin, which is not a bad thing and you could be pleased about it, as you will probably have relatively fewer wrinkles as you age, but you wont notice much difference compared to your peer group until you get into your 40s and 50s.

 
Thanks for the tips.
 
Unfortunately, I am allergic to Aspirin and with Salicylic Acid being closely related it actually makes my face red and gives me hives. One of the best things *supposedly* to clean oily skin is something I'm allergic to. LOL. Go figure.
 
I do know about how important skin pH and the acid mantle is, as that was my main reason for beginning to use ACV. And while I still continue to use the ACV mainly for it's benefits as an AHA, I have to think that the low pH is also helping my skin somewhat too. Regardless, the ACV has made a dramatic difference in how my face looks in the winter.
 
And I've got to say, even if the "oily skin means less wrinkles" saying is true I'd trade overly oily for overly dry in a heartbeat haha. For a guy, I'm not that worried about wrinkles.   smile.png

Edited by CBIOT13, 26 April 2013 - 11:48 AM.


#13 Tom Busby

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:04 AM

You could try something else to lower the pH, citric acid for example, which is much more acidic than salicylic acid, so if you try it I think you'll need to buffer it (raise the pH) with sodium citrate (a salt).  I haven't tried this product, but I think it's a good possibility.  Both of these products are super cheap and widely available.

 

This link shows the amounts to use: http://www.docstoc.c...TRATE-SOLUTIONS

 

I believe that lowering the pH to 5.5 is very important for treatment, and I'd like to know how this works out for other people.



#14 DT222

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 11:07 AM

I've battled oily skin for 20 years and was losing for most of those. Like all of you, I tried everything... agonizingly, everything. In the last 2 years I've seen dramatic improvement and I want to tell you about it in hopes it will bring someone relief. Having read many of these forums over the years, I noticed, as you surely have, that people start a new tactic and promise to report back. Well maybe they do, but it will only be once or twice... we know what happened, because it happens to us, too...

So I am happy to report that my take is 2yrs of retrospective. My acne is not eliminated but it's so improved in terms of frequency and severity that I often feel very lucky, given the level of stress it used to cause.

Let me also say that I include The Regimen in having "tried everything". It was marginally helpful and I tried variations for years. But ultimately it proved more trouble than it's worth for me, for all kinds of reasons you've probably discovered and that we could discuss elsewhere.

So here's what my "routine" has been for the past two years:

Cleansing: Mostly warm water and only in the shower once a day. I use Dan's cleanser once or twice a week, and very quickly, very gently. I also don't shampoo more than a couple times a week, and often use Dan's soap for that as well. As someone with oily face and hair, this is saying a lot.

Treatment: Epiduo. This I use only on my problem spot (forehead). Just a tiny, thin sheen. Get a big tube from your Doctor and it will last for years.

Other: Blackhead extractor and lance (needle). I can't recommend this enough. When tiny pustules or hard obstructions start to form, this can be a miracle of prevention. And if I do get a big one, it's just indespensible to me now for proper extraction and healing (the lance creating only a tiny hole vs the large rupture of "popping"). Be gentle and also try to use the leverage from the side of the extractor sometimes. I'm telling you it took me 18 yrs to discover this $5 tool...

Other: I'll blot the oil with toilet paper or the like several times a day or when I'm out at night, but I don't attempt to cleanse it.

Other: I take fish oil (but that's something I've always done). However, I also eat a lot of flax (raw ground flax in my cereal), which is a more recent practice.

That's it. I can't tell you how radically different this is from the days before. The idea of not using soap all the time? Of not washing at night? Insane. But now I just put the thin layer of Epiduo over the "uncleansed" skin and go to bed.

I have theories as to why this all works, but maybe that's for another time. It's certainly a mix of old and new--simplicity (caveman) and latest tech (epiduo)--but it's worked.

I truly hope this helps someone else.

:)

#15 gracefaceee

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:49 PM

Puberty for sure has a lot to do with my oily skin.

 

But BP and retinoids have made it increasingly worse (therefore getting more acne)



#16 shadetabi

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:21 PM

Nah I don't agree at all with the dead skin absorbing oil I only wash my face with water I have no dead skin build up . You can exfoliate with water and a wash cloth. My skin actually produces less oil for a fact. The reason why I got oily skin in the first place was from an overload of salicylic acid and bp. Keep it simple and moisturize

#17 CBIOT13

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:09 PM

Nah I don't agree at all with the dead skin absorbing oil I only wash my face with water I have no dead skin build up . You can exfoliate with water and a wash cloth. My skin actually produces less oil for a fact. The reason why I got oily skin in the first place was from an overload of salicylic acid and bp. Keep it simple and moisturize

Nope. Sorry but it doesn't work that way, it's physiologicaly impossible as there's no feedback system between your skin and sebaceous glands. It just appears less oily, but if we could measure it your skin would still be producing the same amount of oil.


Edited by CBIOT13, 31 July 2013 - 06:12 PM.


#18 biggs881

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:18 PM

The only treatments that can reduce sebum/oil production are:

 

1. Hormonal treatments such as spironolactone (only for women)

2. Accutane

 

post-145613-1307348579_thumb.jpg

(Click image)

 

 

http://www.bmj.com/h...pdf/0/bmj.f2634

 

http://pediatrics.aa...3/S163.full.pdf



#19 Omnivium

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 04:02 AM

Nah I don't agree at all with the dead skin absorbing oil I only wash my face with water I have no dead skin build up . You can exfoliate with water and a wash cloth. My skin actually produces less oil for a fact. The reason why I got oily skin in the first place was from an overload of salicylic acid and bp. Keep it simple and moisturize

 

Bp and salicylic acid don't affect the binding of androgens to the sebaceous glands, therefore they do not alter the amount of oil produced. They just make your skin appear more oily.



#20 aanabill

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:43 AM

Nah I don't agree at all with the dead skin absorbing oil I only wash my face with water I have no dead skin build up . You can exfoliate with water and a wash cloth. My skin actually produces less oil for a fact. The reason why I got oily skin in the first place was from an overload of salicylic acid and bp. Keep it simple and moisturize

 

Bp and salicylic acid don't affect the binding of androgens to the sebaceous glands, therefore they do not alter the amount of oil produced. They just make your skin appear more oily.

i have heard some people say bp makes them oily.

i have no idea why.

but SA doesnt make u oily IMO.

also,as far as i have experienced(i have used bp as spot treatment) and always found it drying.






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