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Acne Now Red Marks And Serb Derm?


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#1 underneath32

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:55 PM

Hey guys,

Firstly id like to say that i have had moderate acne for over 8 years, i am now 24. i know that there are people on this site in much worse positions than me on here, however I am completely exhausted and frustrated when it comes to my skin. Just to keep it short have used almost everything on my skin over the years, most notably dans BP 2% and regime over the last 2-3years. Despite my acne clearing up, it seems my skin has become very sensitive and developed a new problem- serb dermatitis. I have little red bumps on my nose, cheeks and forehead that are very irritated. i find BP is just making my skin more problematic when it comes to redness, and red acne marks. I also have fair skin, so when i get a red mark it is very noticeable.I now mainly have issues with these 'flare ups' and red marks. I was just wondering if anyone else has had this transition from acne to extremely sensitive skin condition like serb dermatitis?

 

 

 

Thanks in advance.



#2 Tom Busby

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:20 PM

You are absolutely right. Look here, http://www.acne.org/...acne-bacterial/ for a review I wrote of all our non-prescription options, and my experience with home compounding effective treatments. There are also some medical research articles that directly concern your question.

You're also right about Benzoyl Peroxide -- it's a good treatment for acne, but Salicylic Acid (SA) is better for treating seborrhoeic dermatitis, just don't use SA on your hair because SA has a very low pH -- it will make your hair strawlike, (kin has a pH of about 5 but hair has a pH of about 7).  Also, this isn't a problem for you, but people with have dark skin should use SA because it may cause hyperpigmentation where melanin becomes concentrated.

 

Low pH, about 5, is a very important basis for treating seborrhoeic dermatitis in my experience.  For example, if you mail order Nizoral shampoo, and plan to use it as a body wash or face wash you should add SA to lower the pH to about 5.  Keep in mind that you’ll have to do some math to figure out the portions, and that creams and oils aren’t purely aqueous so the pH will always be an estimate.  You’ll also need an accurate scale, and maintain written records of your own treatments so you can keep track of the compounding that works best for you.

 

For example, some people report success with vinegar on their skin, probably because vinegar has somewhat lower pH, but not really low enough in my experience, and vinegar has no surfactants at all so it doesn't clean very well. SA is cheap to buy in bulk, about $15 per pound, it has a very low pH so only small amounts have a big effect, and it's very solvent in ethanol (a 1 to 4 ratio in 190 proof EverClear) or 100% Isopropanol, so it's easy to home compound it into any commercially available face wash or body wash that you like.

 

Please post back if this is helpful for you.  All this may sound complicated but seborrhoeic dermatitis is a lifetime condition and it doesn’t go away on its own.  Good Luck.



#3 underneath32

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 05:51 AM

Tom Busby,

Firstly thank you for your reply, I have read a couple of your posts, and agree on a lot of your opinions. 

I am concerned with the long term effects of BP on peoples skin. Obviously everyone is different and respond differently to it, however i am noticing (and personally experiencing) a lot of people, most notably long term users of BP reactions of serb dermatitis. Regarding your PH levels have you ever used a water ionizer that adjusts the ph of water, perhaps this could be of benefit? I have used apple cider vinegar however not much help. 

 

How is your serb derm at the moment, have you got it under control, because honestly this condition is a much more stubborn older brother to acne?



#4 Tom Busby

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 01:21 PM

I don't know why, but BPO is sort of the opposite of using an acid like Salicylic.  Your experience is consistent with that.  However, BPO isn't the cause of the problem, but BPO is simply not an effective treatment for seb derm caused by a malassezia skin condition.

 

Most public water is alkaline, and hardly any is acidic because it would corrode pipes over a long period of time and so acidic water is not allowed by the EPA.  My local water has a pH of nearly 9, which is the maximum pH allowed by the EPA, but in any event, I think it's too complicated and expensive to treat the water to make it acidic.  Adding SA and making a climbazole body wash is cheap and very effective, in my experience.  But all of this is why pH in a body is merely an estimate, because the body wash is mixed with public water when you use it.

 

My skin is nearly normal now, but there's no cure, only a treatment because the condition is probably genetic and definitely chronic. 

 

My skin was made much worse because for the last 40 years I attempted to treat my red skin and skin flakes by moisturizing with ordinary oil-based lotions, as I thought I had dry skin, but oil based lotions are like feeding time for malassezia because the fungus is not only lipophilic but lipid dependent.  With medical research available on the internet I was able to discover the cause of the red skin and skin flake problem, and I devised an effective treatment.  It wasn't easy to figure this out.  I read a lot of, for example, heavyweight articles about DNA genome sequencing of malassezia subspecies, and then I thought, lovely research, now what do I actually do about it?

 

Interestingly, medical research from the USA never conducts head to head testing of similar products.   Overseas research in developing countries has no problem with head to head testing.  I think big-pharma in the USA suppresses head to head treatment medical research because there would be winners and losers, or perhaps researchers don't want to make enemies because it's hard to get money for research projects in the first place.  For example, Head and Shoulders would be crushed in a head to head test with Nizoral or Hegor or my low pH Climbazole body wash, but you are never going to see that information published in any US medical journal.  As a result, US doctors remain remarkably uninformed about effective treatment of malassezia skin conditions.



#5 underneath32

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:42 AM

Yes i totally agree. I have read that malassezia conditions are made worse by oil based lotions, is that due to their ability to thrive without oxygen? If this is so why don't you think particular antibiotics that target- the bacteria that don't need oxygen is ineffective for this type of condition.... I am going to experiment with PH levels also, did you initially use nizoral? also dont get me started on big-pharma companies haha



#6 Tom Busby

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:54 PM

Here's my Calendar of treatments I used:

June 4, 2012 to August 9, 2012 -- Selsun Blue 1% shampoo.

August 13, 2012 to October 26, 2012 -- Nizoral 1% shampoo.

August 27, 2012 to present -- Nizoral 2% ointment, commercially prepared, eye and lip areas.

October 26, 2012, to January 5, 2013 -- Hegor 1.5% shampoo.

November 3, 2012 to December 3, 2012 -- Ketoconazole 2% lotion, home compounded.

December 4, 2012 to January 4, 2013 -- Ketoconazole 1% lotion, home compounded with 0.3% lemongrass and essential oils.

January 5, 2013 to March 12, 2013 -- Climbazole 0.5% and Ketoconazole 1% lotion, home compounded, with various essential oils, on my back only.

January 5, 2013 to present -- Ketoconazole 1.5% face lotion, home compounded, no essential oils (NEO) except for 1 drop Ultrazur G and 1 drop cinnamon leaf oil, and Ketoconazole 1% lotion (KETO) with essential oils for everywhere else on the body.  On March 12, 2013, the KETO lotion was modified to 1.0% Ketoconazole and 0.06% Climbazole, (KLEO) for use on my entire body.

February 20, 2013 to the present -- 1.0% Climbazole and 0.5% Salicylic Acid (CLIO), body wash only, not as a shampoo or face wash.  A low pH is very important.  See, www.iranjd.ir/download.asp?code=IJD09124982 ; www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18492152



#7 wicky

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:33 PM

and? are u clear?



#8 Tom Busby

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:09 PM

I've cleared at least 98% of the problem areas that were red bumps, red circular patches about 1cm in diameter, larger patches of normal colored but thickened skin, and smaller patches of flaking white skin plaques (like large, sticky, dandruff flakes). 

 

My calendar of treatments shows how I wasted about 7 months on less effective treatments -- that's why I posted my review of treatments, to help others avoid spending time and money on treatments that are barely effective.

 

Here's some new information, as I've been using Aloe Vera for the past 2 weeks -- too soon to be sure but I would like to know if others have had success with Aloe.

 

Aloe Vera gel appears to be effective at dissolving affected skin, which is most likely protein, fat and polysaccharide bonds formed by the interaction of malassezia and the skin. There is very little scientific evidence for why Aloe Vera is effective, but it is confirmed by my own experience and in, “A Double-Blind, Placebo Controlled Trial Of An Aloe Vera Emulsion In The Treatment Of Seborrheic Dermatitis,” J. Dermatol. Treatment, 1999, 10, 7-11, Vardy et al. 1999, where it was reported that improvement occurred for 60% of the patients with Aloe Vera, compared with only 20% of the control group. See also, http://www.e-ijd.org...145_26942_1.jpg    Aloe Vera’s best use is to apply it about an hour or two before showering, because it apparently dissolves loosened skin plaques and isn’t by itself an anti-malassezia treatment, in my opinion.