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Acne Is Not Caused By Diet


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#21 alternativista

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:07 PM

I don't know why you've imagined that we don't know about androgens and acne. Our derms tell us that too. However, it isn't actually correct that androgens cause acne. They cause oily skin which does not cause acne. It just doesn't help.

And who pays $300 for a derm visit? Not that I'm interested in defending the US 'health' care system. But the only thing the Canadian system has going for it is that it is free. Other than that, it is no better.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


#22 darkheart

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:22 PM

I don't know why you've imagined that we don't know about androgens and acne. Our derms tell us that too. However, it isn't actually correct that androgens cause acne. They cause oily skin which does not cause acne. It just doesn't help.

And who pays $300 for a derm visit? Not that I'm interested in defending the US 'health' care system. But the only thing the Canadian system has going for it is that it is free. Other than that, it is no better.

 

I always see posts written by Americans here on Acne.org saying how they wish they could see a dermatologist but don't have the money to or that the going rate for the uninsured is $300 dollars for a Derm visit (I've seen this online time and time again). It's not a magical figure I just made up in my head. Perhaps it varies from state to state (possibly?) in price but I keep hearing it's at least $300.



#23 alternativista

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:30 PM

Funny, I've never seen it. But we don't talk about seeing derms much in this forum except about how useless they were for us. And how the average derm apparently doesn't read journals and keep up with research and so they tell us stupid things like 'diet doesn't affect acne' and that its caused by androgens.

Few other doctor visits cost anywhere near that so I don't know why a derm visit would.

Edited by alternativista, 28 February 2013 - 07:32 PM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


#24 dejaclairevoyant

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:25 PM

Yeah, I have the tiniest bone structure. But I was still pretty skinny at 90 something pounds. I guess I had enough body fat to function though.



I don't know why you've imagined that we don't know about androgens and acne. Our derms tell us that too. However, it isn't actually correct that androgens cause acne. They cause oily skin which does not cause acne. It just doesn't help.

And who pays $300 for a derm visit? Not that I'm interested in defending the US 'health' care system. But the only thing the Canadian system has going for it is that it is free. Other than that, it is no better.

 

I always see posts written by Americans here on Acne.org saying how they wish they could see a dermatologist but don't have the money to or that the going rate for the uninsured is $300 dollars for a Derm visit (I've seen this online time and time again). It's not a magical figure I just made up in my head. Perhaps it varies from state to state (possibly?) in price but I keep hearing it's at least $300.

 

No, you're definitely right. Doctors are impossibly expensive here. A regular doctor visit (say, just to get antibiotics for a cold or something) has always cost me well over $100, not including the price of medication. That's JUST to see the doctor. I can't remember how much it was per visit to see the derm when I used to go, but it was a LOT. Like, well over $100. And the medications they prescribed cost upwards of $200 a tube sometimes!


Current Skin-Care Regimen (A work in progress):

 

Morning:

Gentle wash with DKR cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil (The  lotion alone wasn't hydrating enough)

Skin 79 Korean BB Cream (excellent stuff)

 

Evening:

Gentle Wash with DKR Cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil

 


#25 darkheart

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:35 PM

Yeah, I have the tiniest bone structure. But I was still pretty skinny at 90 something pounds. I guess I had enough body fat to function though.



 

I don't know why you've imagined that we don't know about androgens and acne. Our derms tell us that too. However, it isn't actually correct that androgens cause acne. They cause oily skin which does not cause acne. It just doesn't help.

And who pays $300 for a derm visit? Not that I'm interested in defending the US 'health' care system. But the only thing the Canadian system has going for it is that it is free. Other than that, it is no better.

 

I always see posts written by Americans here on Acne.org saying how they wish they could see a dermatologist but don't have the money to or that the going rate for the uninsured is $300 dollars for a Derm visit (I've seen this online time and time again). It's not a magical figure I just made up in my head. Perhaps it varies from state to state (possibly?) in price but I keep hearing it's at least $300.

 

No, you're definitely right. Doctors are impossibly expensive here. A regular doctor visit (say, just to get antibiotics for a cold or something) has always cost me well over $100, not including the price of medication. That's JUST to see the doctor. I can't remember how much it was per visit to see the derm when I used to go, but it was a LOT. Like, well over $100. And the medications they prescribed cost upwards of $200 a tube sometimes!

 

That's terrible. How can they take advantage of people like that? The most I paid (or my mother paid when I was a teen) for an acne gel or cream from a dermatologist was $17.00 dollars at the most for Retin-A or another prescriptiion acne lotion. Antibiotics and birth control pills are under $20 dollars and Accutane ranges from $36-$53 dollars here for the first bottle of pills.

 

I never had to pay to see a dermatologist and I could go to as many as I wanted (for a second or third opinion) free of charge.

 

Poor people. How do you not go broke?



#26 dejaclairevoyant

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:52 PM

I did, pretty much lol. And I still had acne, so I basically concluded that derms are a waste of time. I had way better luck with the Regimen (sold on this site) and it's cheaper.


Current Skin-Care Regimen (A work in progress):

 

Morning:

Gentle wash with DKR cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil (The  lotion alone wasn't hydrating enough)

Skin 79 Korean BB Cream (excellent stuff)

 

Evening:

Gentle Wash with DKR Cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil

 


#27 alternativista

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:00 PM

We pay a lot for prescriptions because we get to subsidize the cost the rest of the world pays. We pay for all the research and development and the profits.

By we I mean the average American, of course. I would never take a drug for anything except temporarily for an acute illness. Therefore I don't pay for any drugs and haven't for at least 5 years. The last drug I tried was spiro and it was very cheap.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


#28 darkheart

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:05 PM

I did, pretty much lol. And I still had acne, so I basically concluded that derms are a waste of time. I had way better luck with the Regimen (sold on this site) and it's cheaper.

 

I follow the regimen's "science" but use my own products. I really love Marcelle cleansing milk and Philosophy gel cream moisturizer I usually follow this with retin- a and now I find my skin is fairly balanced and very "even" in tone (but that could also be the spiro). I see you like Asian BB creams? have you tried the Lioele one, it has the best coverage and the sebum control is fantastic. I paid 20 bucks for it online.


Edited by darkheart, 28 February 2013 - 09:07 PM.


#29 alternativista

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:39 PM

I have to say, if you people have been paying that much for a doctors visit, why weren't you out shouting down the idiots protesting the attempts to fix our health care system We had a chance to fix this.



I did, pretty much lol. And I still had acne, so I basically concluded that derms are a waste of time. I had way better luck with the Regimen (sold on this site) and it's cheaper.

 
I follow the regimen's "science" but use my own products. I really love Marcelle cleansing milk and Philosophy gel cream moisturizer I usually follow this with retin- a and now I find my skin is fairly balanced and very "even" in tone (but that could also be the spiro). I see you like Asian BB creams? have you tried the Lioele one, it has the best coverage and the sebum control is fantastic. I paid 20 bucks for it online.
Why do you use all those products if acne is purely caused by androgens and spiro fixes that? Why do you need sebum control?

I use water, oil and aloe Vera. And nutrients.

Edited by alternativista, 28 February 2013 - 09:40 PM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


#30 darkheart

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:00 PM

I have to say, if you people have been paying that much for a doctors visit, why weren't you out shouting down the idiots protesting the attempts to fix our health care system We had a chance to fix this.



 



I did, pretty much lol. And I still had acne, so I basically concluded that derms are a waste of time. I had way better luck with the Regimen (sold on this site) and it's cheaper.

 
I follow the regimen's "science" but use my own products. I really love Marcelle cleansing milk and Philosophy gel cream moisturizer I usually follow this with retin- a and now I find my skin is fairly balanced and very "even" in tone (but that could also be the spiro). I see you like Asian BB creams? have you tried the Lioele one, it has the best coverage and the sebum control is fantastic. I paid 20 bucks for it online.
Why do you use all those products if acne is purely caused by androgens and spiro fixes that? Why do you need sebum control?

I use water, oil and aloe Vera. And nutrients.

 

Because it has improved the texture of my "sensitive" skin after many years of usage of harsh acne products like Proactiv ect. It also makes my skin brighter and assists in softening the appearance of minor acne scars. I Still use BB ccreams with sebum control as I like an extremely matte finsh to my makeup. I don't have very much excess oil at all these days.



#31 Green Gables

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:56 PM

If I took this advice I'd still be hiding in my closet wondering about the day I'll be clear of acne. 

 

I am so close to being clear through diet alone. I don't know what my problem is - leaky gut, candida, hormones - I really don't care. What I do know is diet works, and taking many different supplements, which I did do, did absolutely nothing. 

 

On health care.. very emotional political comment you got there - ban Mc Donalds and we'd probably significantly lower government health care costs (and also my huge tax hikes).

 

You can ban McDonalds but you can't ban stupidity. 


photo-152109.gif?_r=1345837784?__rand=0.

 

I don't get notified of your response to my post unless you QUOTE my post.

Please only quote a small portion of the post so it doesn't clutter up the thread. 

 

How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#32 Green Gables

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:12 PM

Since we're talking about U.S. healthcare, let's make a few points...

 

1) Lots of drug / treatment innovation occurs here BECAUSE of the capitalist system which allows profit to occur. Without a profit incentive, the research dies down to a trickle. Of course, this enables copycats in other countries to offer the same treatments and medications at lower prices because they aren't taking the risk of innovating, they're just copying what someone else created.

 

Example: When PrevAcid came out as a brand new drug it was $600 for a month's supply. It was a patented U.S. drug created by TAP Pharmaceuticals in Illinois. They spent about a decade of research and millions of dollars creating this drug. When they introduced it to the public, they had to recoup the money they had spent with a high price. Yet not long after, some other countries with different laws were distributing the same drug for a fraction of the price. If a higher percentage of PrevAcid users had been non-U.S., TAP would have gone into bankruptcy.

 

2) Can we please stop saying healthcare is free anywhere? It is not free. It is simply deducted out of your paycheck as extra taxes before you get your paycheck. If you live in a highly socialized system with a very graduated tax bracket, maybe you are just leeching off the taxes of others, but believe me SOMEONE is paying for it. 

 

3) Insurance. The U.S. insurance system is really really crazy because half the population sees healthcare as a business and half sees it as a right. The legislation for healthcare insurance is insanely hard to deal with and most doctors have no clue what is going on. That said, I don't think single-payer systems are the solution. When Japan went to single-payer health insurance, the average number of doctor visits per person per year went up from 3-4 to 11. Their health care costs skyrocketed. When health care costs are taken out of your paycheck (or someone else's paycheck) automatically, you are no longer judicious. You start going to the doctor willy-nilly because it's "free." Over time this leads to a huge abuse of the system--many UKers on here complain about the 4-6 month waits to see a dermatologist. Yeah, in the U.S. I'm paying $150 (uninsured) to see a derm but I've always made appointments same day, and I am pretty sure my total health care costs are lower than what a middle class UKer would pay out of taxes.


Edited by Green Gables, 01 March 2013 - 02:17 PM.

photo-152109.gif?_r=1345837784?__rand=0.

 

I don't get notified of your response to my post unless you QUOTE my post.

Please only quote a small portion of the post so it doesn't clutter up the thread. 

 

How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#33 Riddled

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:33 PM

Do you know what percent of people with this inherited sensitivity to androgen hormones exhibit acne? Is acne basically like male pattern baldness then, ie i think the only way to prevent baldness is to interfere with your hormones like you mention. Aren't hormones and this sensitivity just part of the problem/puzzle?

 

As far as i know the only guaranteed way to stop male pattern baldness is castration [which no doubt also works wonders with acne] but with acne there are many ways other than hormone manipulation that get results in reducing or stopping it. 

 

 

I know this is a bad analogy [but off the top of my head] people with hay fever etc often find themselves trapped indoors at certain times of the year to avoid their allergen. Their allergen is causing their condition so by avoiding it they avoid any problem, but not going outdoors isn't any fun and seeing as completely removing the allergen from the outside isn't an option they have to come up with another way of dealing with the problem.

 

 

Aren't there many factors/parts needed to cause acne, as well as needing sufficient androgen hormones present, there also needs to be sufficient sebum made, the presence of P-acnes bacteria [and whatever others] and an inflammatory response.

 

If you remove or reduce one of these factors [parts of the puzzle etc] then you consequently reduce or remove the acne?

 

Hence all the different treatments available ie drugs to reduce/manipulate hormones [spiro, the pill, propecia etc], drugs to reduce/manipulate sebum [acutane etc], drugs to reduce/manipulate bacteria [antibiotics].

 

What about the inflammatory response?

 

As others have no doubt said diet does play a role with the immune system and inflammation [as well as the others, sebum production maybe etc].

 

In my opinion controlling or reducing my hormones isn't an option, yes i would love completely clear skin but not if it means having living with the side effects of having less androgens etc, hence if/when i go bald i will not take any drugs to prevent etc.

 

I am not sure you can really do anything about the bacterium itself, this websites regime doesn't really work for me and actually kind of destroys my face. I am not sue about antibiotics either, it is something i want to look into much more.

 

I can't really take tane for one reason or another.

 

This leaves the inflammatory response and the role of the diet. 

 

In my opinion one of the keys [ if not the key] with inflammation and autoimmune diseases is our gut flora/bacteria and how it mediates/controls our immune system. Diet no doubt plays a role with gut flora etc.

 

Also, obviously, food intolerances/ sensitivities etc are no doubt connected to an inflammatory response as well. See the topic i posted recently on celiac disease, in my opinion acne is an autoimmune disorder like celiac and asthma etc and it seems that gut flora plays a greater role with these than we realized. 

 

To quote the article:

 

"Yet the more scientists study celiac disease, the more some crucial component appears in need of identification. Roughly 30 percent of people with European ancestry carry predisposing genes, for example. Yet more than 95 percent of the carriers tolerate gluten just fine. So while these genes (plus gluten) are necessary to produce the disease, they’re evidently insufficient to cause it."

 

Also, maybe lactose intolerance isn't strictly an allergy etc but a lot of the world suffers from it so it is relevant. God knows what the connections to Gut flora are.

 

http://www.statistic...nce-statistics/

 

http://www.milk.co.u...x?intPageID=138

 

 

 

I would love to get involved in a discussion on the ethics of the American Health Care System but i have to go.

But. Isn't there a slight irony that this discussion be had on an acne board? Admittedly many of the members on here are very young, but Isn't acne the height of a selfish, narcissistic, self indulgent, consuming society?

I have actually heard the true cure for acne is to simply stop thinking/worrying about your acne [and yourself] and to stop being so self absorbed, once you reach true selflessness all your problems [including acne] will go away. Give it a try. Personally i am just too much of a selfish bar steward.


God gave us everything we need; the earth to live on, animals to feast on, vegetables to make side dishes and fruit to be eaten in moderation.

The devil put grains, beats and sugarcane on the earth to tempt us.

For approximately 2.5 million to 10,000 years ago most of us strayed away from temptation but the devils influence grew stronger and eventually we swayed to his evil ways.

God new that those whose faith was strong would never fall to temptation so he punished those who took to the pleasures of grains and sugar by not giving us the ability to digest grains and making sugar poisonous, eventually leading to all kinds of health problems including acne.

But some wanted there cake and to eat it too, free of health problems, so they made a pact with the devil and sold their soul's for acne free skin.

We see these people consuming delicious breaded, dough based meals, baked goods and confectioneries but with crystal clear skin.
These people are walking with the devil!!
They are the spawn of satan!!




Paleo is the righteous path my children!!

Your faith must be strong!!

Do not fall to temptation!!







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blind
faith
is the
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#34 alternativista

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:39 PM

Since we're talking about U.S. healthcare, let's make a few points...
 
1) Lots of drug / treatment innovation occurs here BECAUSE of the capitalist system which allows profit to occur. Without a profit incentive, the research dies down to a trickle. Of course, this enables copycats in other countries to offer the same treatments and medications at lower prices because they aren't taking the risk of innovating, they're just copying what someone else created.
 
Example: When PrevAcid came out as a brand new drug it was $600 for a month's supply. It was a patented U.S. drug created by TAP Pharmaceuticals in Illinois. They spent about a decade of research and millions of dollars creating this drug. When they introduced it to the public, they had to recoup the money they had spent with a high price. Yet not long after, some other countries with different laws were distributing the same drug for a fraction of the price. If a higher percentage of PrevAcid users had been non-U.S., TAP would have gone into bankruptcy.
 
2) Can we please stop saying healthcare is free anywhere? It is not free. It is simply deducted out of your paycheck as extra taxes before you get your paycheck. If you live in a highly socialized system with a very graduated tax bracket, maybe you are just leeching off the taxes of others, but believe me SOMEONE is paying for it. 
 
3) Insurance. The U.S. insurance system is really really crazy because half the population sees healthcare as a business and half sees it as a right. The legislation for healthcare insurance is insanely hard to deal with and most doctors have no clue what is going on. That said, I don't think single-payer systems are the solution. When Japan went to single-payer health insurance, the average number of doctor visits per person per year went up from 3-4 to 11. Their health care costs skyrocketed. When health care costs are taken out of your paycheck (or someone else's paycheck) automatically, you are no longer judicious. You start going to the doctor willy-nilly because it's "free." Over time this leads to a huge abuse of the system--many UKers on here complain about the 4-6 month waits to see a dermatologist. Yeah, in the U.S. I'm paying $150 (uninsured) to see a derm but I've always made appointments same day, and I am pretty sure my total health care costs are lower than what a middle class UKer would pay out of taxes.

----------------
I agree that it should not be free. People should always pay something for a doctors visit and a percentage of their treatment. Drugs aren't candy, people. And surgeries and other interventions should not be taken lightly. And If you'd rather take pills and ride mobility scooters than take care of yourself, then you should pay. But the costs and profit taking has gotten way out of hand. Sometime in the 80s I think. About the time HMOs appeared, costs for insurance and care began skyrocketing. Insurance should be for major medical expense period. and all else should be affordable. When I was a kid, our family of six never used my fathers very good, totally employer payed low deductible insurance because we were not sickly and a doctors visit was reasonable. We never made the 500 deductible.

I didn't get too involved in the healthcare debate because I am still not sickly and it would probably cost me more to be on any plan they'd come up with. Now that they cant put a lifetime or anual limit on what they pay due to Obamacare, im happy with my $5000 deductible insurance. Although I still think it costs me more than it should. Because its purpose is to protect me I case of a catastrophic illness or accident. Most people whose employers pay half their premium pay much more than I do. That my low cost plan also has to preventative care is a bonus. Again, thanks to Obamacare.


Have you seen the recent Time magazine article about the markup of charges in hospitals, administrator salaries, record profits made by non profit hospitals and such - http://healthland.ti...are-killing-us/. And the appearance of the author on Jon Stewart earlier this week?

Edited by alternativista, 01 March 2013 - 04:19 PM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


#35 darkheart

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:31 PM

Since we're talking about U.S. healthcare, let's make a few points...

 

1) Lots of drug / treatment innovation occurs here BECAUSE of the capitalist system which allows profit to occur. Without a profit incentive, the research dies down to a trickle. Of course, this enables copycats in other countries to offer the same treatments and medications at lower prices because they aren't taking the risk of innovating, they're just copying what someone else created.

 

Example: When PrevAcid came out as a brand new drug it was $600 for a month's supply. It was a patented U.S. drug created by TAP Pharmaceuticals in Illinois. They spent about a decade of research and millions of dollars creating this drug. When they introduced it to the public, they had to recoup the money they had spent with a high price. Yet not long after, some other countries with different laws were distributing the same drug for a fraction of the price. If a higher percentage of PrevAcid users had been non-U.S., TAP would have gone into bankruptcy.

 

2) Can we please stop saying healthcare is free anywhere? It is not free. It is simply deducted out of your paycheck as extra taxes before you get your paycheck. If you live in a highly socialized system with a very graduated tax bracket, maybe you are just leeching off the taxes of others, but believe me SOMEONE is paying for it. 

 

3) Insurance. The U.S. insurance system is really really crazy because half the population sees healthcare as a business and half sees it as a right. The legislation for healthcare insurance is insanely hard to deal with and most doctors have no clue what is going on. That said, I don't think single-payer systems are the solution. When Japan went to single-payer health insurance, the average number of doctor visits per person per year went up from 3-4 to 11. Their health care costs skyrocketed. When health care costs are taken out of your paycheck (or someone else's paycheck) automatically, you are no longer judicious. You start going to the doctor willy-nilly because it's "free." Over time this leads to a huge abuse of the system--many UKers on here complain about the 4-6 month waits to see a dermatologist. Yeah, in the U.S. I'm paying $150 (uninsured) to see a derm but I've always made appointments same day, and I am pretty sure my total health care costs are lower than what a middle class UKer would pay out of taxes.

 

 

Since I'm guessing you're American I don't think you'll ever grasp how our system works. I know the health care in Canada is "socialized" (which doesn't mean free) but it sure seems that way. We're not paying astronomical taxes in Canada and we're not paying premiums either (like you may have heard rumors of). The socialed health care system has no impact on taxes and another thing Canadians get large government tax returns as well (every three months). Life is great here.

 

The U.S is a capitalist society where the rich thrive and the poor languish - hence the constant rat race. Canada is a more fair country all around.



#36 Green Gables

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:10 PM

Since we're talking about U.S. healthcare, let's make a few points...

 

1) Lots of drug / treatment innovation occurs here BECAUSE of the capitalist system which allows profit to occur. Without a profit incentive, the research dies down to a trickle. Of course, this enables copycats in other countries to offer the same treatments and medications at lower prices because they aren't taking the risk of innovating, they're just copying what someone else created.

 

Example: When PrevAcid came out as a brand new drug it was $600 for a month's supply. It was a patented U.S. drug created by TAP Pharmaceuticals in Illinois. They spent about a decade of research and millions of dollars creating this drug. When they introduced it to the public, they had to recoup the money they had spent with a high price. Yet not long after, some other countries with different laws were distributing the same drug for a fraction of the price. If a higher percentage of PrevAcid users had been non-U.S., TAP would have gone into bankruptcy.

 

2) Can we please stop saying healthcare is free anywhere? It is not free. It is simply deducted out of your paycheck as extra taxes before you get your paycheck. If you live in a highly socialized system with a very graduated tax bracket, maybe you are just leeching off the taxes of others, but believe me SOMEONE is paying for it. 

 

3) Insurance. The U.S. insurance system is really really crazy because half the population sees healthcare as a business and half sees it as a right. The legislation for healthcare insurance is insanely hard to deal with and most doctors have no clue what is going on. That said, I don't think single-payer systems are the solution. When Japan went to single-payer health insurance, the average number of doctor visits per person per year went up from 3-4 to 11. Their health care costs skyrocketed. When health care costs are taken out of your paycheck (or someone else's paycheck) automatically, you are no longer judicious. You start going to the doctor willy-nilly because it's "free." Over time this leads to a huge abuse of the system--many UKers on here complain about the 4-6 month waits to see a dermatologist. Yeah, in the U.S. I'm paying $150 (uninsured) to see a derm but I've always made appointments same day, and I am pretty sure my total health care costs are lower than what a middle class UKer would pay out of taxes.

 

 

Since I'm guessing you're American I don't think you'll ever grasp how our system works. I know the health care in Canada is "socialized" (which doesn't mean free) but it sure seems that way. We're not paying astronomical taxes in Canada and we're not paying premiums either (like you may have heard rumors of). The socialed health care system has no impact on taxes and another thing Canadians get large government tax returns as well (every three months). Life is great here.

 

The U.S is a capitalist society where the rich thrive and the poor languish - hence the constant rat race. Canada is a more fair country all around.

 

I actually didn't mention Canada, I mentioned the UK, which have their differences, and I didn't say you have astronomical taxes, I said that the portion of taxes you pay that goes towards health care (assuming you're in a bracket where you actually pay something, not a welfare bracket) is more than the money I spent of my own volition on my own health care.

 

There are plenty of things wrong with US taxes and the way private health insurance is run over here, but I am not one to say that health care should be federally managed. I don't consider 4-6 month wait times on the NHS just to see a derm as well-managed, or people skipping over to the doctor 11 times per year well-managed either. I think there is a better solution that isn't what we have now but also isn't copying the UK.

 

Healthcare in the US was a lot better honestly when it was a simple relationship between doctor and patient. Doctors knew what services they provided and what they wanted to charge for them. They had the option to do things pro bono for charity cases if they chose. Once insurance started being A Big Deal and people started seeing doctors are magical people who magically cure their ailments, then insurance became A Right, profit-seekers entered the market and then federal legislation just made it harder for doctors to practice. Now when I go to a doctor without insurance, instead of making a bargain with you, they look at you blankly and don't even know what to charge. I preferred when doctors had control of their practices and what they charged.

 

As for the rat race, competition drives innovation and change. Complacency doesn't drive anything. Thankfully there are multiple countries in the world so those of us who wouldn't be happy frolicking about in Canada can go rat race it up in the US tongue.png


Edited by Green Gables, 01 March 2013 - 06:17 PM.

photo-152109.gif?_r=1345837784?__rand=0.

 

I don't get notified of your response to my post unless you QUOTE my post.

Please only quote a small portion of the post so it doesn't clutter up the thread. 

 

How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#37 darkheart

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:19 PM

 

Since we're talking about U.S. healthcare, let's make a few points...

 

1) Lots of drug / treatment innovation occurs here BECAUSE of the capitalist system which allows profit to occur. Without a profit incentive, the research dies down to a trickle. Of course, this enables copycats in other countries to offer the same treatments and medications at lower prices because they aren't taking the risk of innovating, they're just copying what someone else created.

 

Example: When PrevAcid came out as a brand new drug it was $600 for a month's supply. It was a patented U.S. drug created by TAP Pharmaceuticals in Illinois. They spent about a decade of research and millions of dollars creating this drug. When they introduced it to the public, they had to recoup the money they had spent with a high price. Yet not long after, some other countries with different laws were distributing the same drug for a fraction of the price. If a higher percentage of PrevAcid users had been non-U.S., TAP would have gone into bankruptcy.

 

2) Can we please stop saying healthcare is free anywhere? It is not free. It is simply deducted out of your paycheck as extra taxes before you get your paycheck. If you live in a highly socialized system with a very graduated tax bracket, maybe you are just leeching off the taxes of others, but believe me SOMEONE is paying for it. 

 

3) Insurance. The U.S. insurance system is really really crazy because half the population sees healthcare as a business and half sees it as a right. The legislation for healthcare insurance is insanely hard to deal with and most doctors have no clue what is going on. That said, I don't think single-payer systems are the solution. When Japan went to single-payer health insurance, the average number of doctor visits per person per year went up from 3-4 to 11. Their health care costs skyrocketed. When health care costs are taken out of your paycheck (or someone else's paycheck) automatically, you are no longer judicious. You start going to the doctor willy-nilly because it's "free." Over time this leads to a huge abuse of the system--many UKers on here complain about the 4-6 month waits to see a dermatologist. Yeah, in the U.S. I'm paying $150 (uninsured) to see a derm but I've always made appointments same day, and I am pretty sure my total health care costs are lower than what a middle class UKer would pay out of taxes.

 

 

Since I'm guessing you're American I don't think you'll ever grasp how our system works. I know the health care in Canada is "socialized" (which doesn't mean free) but it sure seems that way. We're not paying astronomical taxes in Canada and we're not paying premiums either (like you may have heard rumors of). The socialed health care system has no impact on taxes and another thing Canadians get large government tax returns as well (every three months). Life is great here.

 

The U.S is a capitalist society where the rich thrive and the poor languish - hence the constant rat race. Canada is a more fair country all around.

 

I actually didn't mention Canada, I mentioned the UK, which have their differences, and I didn't say you have astronomical taxes, I said that the portion of taxes you pay that goes towards health care (assuming you're in a bracket where you actually pay something, not a welfare bracket) is more than the money I spent of my own volition on my own health care.

 

There are plenty of things wrong with US taxes and the way private health insurance is run over here, but I am not one to say that health care should be federally managed. I don't consider 4-6 month wait times on the NHS just to see a derm as well-managed, or people skipping over to the doctor 11 times per year well-managed either. I think there is a better solution that isn't what we have now but also isn't copying the UK. 

 

A lot of Americans assume that the taxes we pay in Canada to keep the government health care system going are *through the roof* which is not true - I'd just thought I'd clear that up regardless. There's a lot of ignorance out there about socialized medicine especially from Americans.

 

Americans seem very much for themselves and don't want to bother helping their fellow man out - which is probably why a fully socialized health care system in the United States just wouldn't work. Because most Americans would be appalled to have their taxes going to help *that bum on the street* get treatment for his bad liver.


Edited by darkheart, 01 March 2013 - 06:54 PM.


#38 Green Gables

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:29 PM

Well it's about choice. I actually love to help people. I've wasted hours of my time and thousands of dollars of my own money to help people just because altruism is great. But I don't like to be forced to do something good. Forcing me to do something good removes the joy out of that good thing. Now that moral transaction is an obligation. I don't feel like a better person. I don't feel like I went out of my way to help someone. I just feel like Nanny government told me what to do.

 

The more the government tries to do for me, the more helpless I feel. Now I feel that there's no point in me being charitable because the government's going to do it for me. Why should I help that bum on the street? I pay for Medicaid. I pay for welfare. He should get his ass to a homeless shelter and stop being an eyesore. Forced charity actually breeds resentment.


Edited by Green Gables, 01 March 2013 - 06:31 PM.

photo-152109.gif?_r=1345837784?__rand=0.

 

I don't get notified of your response to my post unless you QUOTE my post.

Please only quote a small portion of the post so it doesn't clutter up the thread. 

 

How to Treat Hormonal Acne

Good and Bad Birth Control Pills and Implants for Acne

How to take Spironolactone

List of Doctors Who Prescribe Spironolactone

Topicals for Hormonal Acne

 

HOW I STAY 100% CLEAR:

Spironolactone (anti-androgen drug)

Betaine HCL with each meal

Avoiding silicones and occlusives in skin/hair products

 

 

 


#39 CoffeeTea

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:58 PM

Drink cola and junk food everyday and see how your face explode.

 

Works fine for a lot of the population, food is more an issue for people that actually has acne. so fair to say it isn't an issue for everyone and isn't an absolute since the majority of the population doesn't suffer from acne. Plus the obvious, everyone is different. However, yes, you should try to eat a healthy diet


Edited by CoffeeTea, 01 March 2013 - 10:01 PM.


#40 darkheart

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 01:41 AM

Drink cola and junk food everyday and see how your face explode.

 

Works fine for a lot of the population, food is more an issue for people that actually has acne. so fair to say it isn't an issue for everyone and isn't an absolute since the majority of the population doesn't suffer from acne. Plus the obvious, everyone is different. However, yes, you should try to eat a healthy diet

 

Agree so much. Acne is actually rare in the general adult population, even though a lot of people suffer from the disorder the adult majority don't experience many acne issus. How many people above the age of say 25 do you see on the street with severe acne on their face? few and far between is the answer.

 

Genetics influence everything and they're hard to change. You can fight against your genes.. but sometimes you lose the battle. My original post was intended to make people less inclined to blame themselves as a lot of people believe they have severe acne because of somthing they're doing or something they're eating ect.

 

It's sad, I feel like a lot of these alternative medicine people (on this forum) do more harm than good as they always try to tell acne sufferers to "cut out this, cut out that and take this" and basically point the finger at the victim. They always push the "leaky gut" business to high heaven too, *rolls eyes*.