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#1 whoartthou1

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:42 AM

I think i may know why people "grow out of acne" In essence, when you are in college and highschool, you eat junk food majority of the time . However, once we move past college, we tend to eat home cooked food. Now, the home cooked food may not be entirerly heAlthy (grain free, low in lectins, dairy free etc) but it is most likely no where near as bad as junk food and fast food (which is full of vegetable oil). Thus, once you change your diet , maybe your body changes and thus you are not acne prone anymore?

#2 random1

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:00 AM

That's a definite possible factor. Honestly I had never thought of it that way. Even with the whole "theres not enough evidence to conclude blah blah blah" I am a firm believer that foods CAN aggravate acne. 

 

However, even with this being said, I wouldn't really jump on and say that in essence this is the reason people grow out of acne. I think the majority of acne is in the hands of the huge hormonal and physiological changes that are happening (whether during teenager or adult hood - mostly teenager though im guessing) . The start of adulthood marks a peak through decline in these changes, therefore reducing acne (in most people at least)

 

Not only that, but I also have my own experiences. No amount of dieting helped me during my "peak" with acne. The hormones were taking charge fully. 



#3 Lilly75

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:39 AM

I think the people who are lucky enough to grow out of acne are the teenagers whose acne is just that - hormonal teenage acne due mainly to puberty. And once the hormones start to stabilise as they reach the end of that phase, the acne lessens and they 'grow out of acne'. That's how I think of it anyway. But the majority of people aren't so lucky to just outgrow it unfortunately - so I guess that's when things like diet changes etc play a bigger role in hopefully getting it under control and being clear.



#4 alternativista

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:49 AM

 Thus, once you change your diet , maybe your body changes and thus you are not acne prone anymore?

 

Changing your diet does 'change your body', but unfortunately, for far too many people, the 'home cooked diet' is not much better than potato chips and pizza. 



#5 darkheart

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:11 PM

I think i may know why people "grow out of acne" In essence, when you are in college and highschool, you eat junk food majority of the time . However, once we move past college, we tend to eat home cooked food. Now, the home cooked food may not be entirerly heAlthy (grain free, low in lectins, dairy free etc) but it is most likely no where near as bad as junk food and fast food (which is full of vegetable oil). Thus, once you change your diet , maybe your body changes and thus you are not acne prone anymore

 

People tend to "grow out of acne" at around 18-20 years because at this age for the majority their bodies have finally become used to processing their "sex hormones" (DHT ect) no longer resulting in over activity of sebaceous glands. When someone "grows out of acne" they become immune to the effects of androgens; androgen insensitive. Just in the same way someone grows out of childhood Asthma ect.

 


 


 Thus, once you change your diet , maybe your body changes and thus you are not acne prone anymore?

 

Changing your diet does 'change your body', but unfortunately, for far too many people, the 'home cooked diet' is not much better than potato chips and pizza. 

 

 

 

 

Honey? go on spironolactone. Go to an endocrinologist. Your are an androgen sensitive woman no doubt that's why you've done soooo many accutane failures and nothing seems to be permanent in its effects. Acne is not related to diet at all, stop blaming yourself.


Edited by darkheart, 27 February 2013 - 11:12 PM.


#6 alternativista

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:59 AM

I think i may know why people "grow out of acne" In essence, when you are in college and highschool, you eat junk food majority of the time . However, once we move past college, we tend to eat home cooked food. Now, the home cooked food may not be entirerly heAlthy (grain free, low in lectins, dairy free etc) but it is most likely no where near as bad as junk food and fast food (which is full of vegetable oil). Thus, once you change your diet , maybe your body changes and thus you are not acne prone anymore

 

People tend to "grow out of acne" at around 18-20 years because at this age for the majority their bodies have finally become used to processing their "sex hormones" (DHT ect) no longer resulting in over activity of sebaceous glands. When someone "grows out of acne" they become immune to the effects of androgens; androgen insensitive. Just in the same way someone grows out of childhood Asthma ect.

 

 

 

 

 Thus, once you change your diet , maybe your body changes and thus you are not acne prone anymore?

 

Changing your diet does 'change your body', but unfortunately, for far too many people, the 'home cooked diet' is not much better than potato chips and pizza. 

 

 

 

 

Honey? go on spironolactone. Go to an endocrinologist. Your are an androgen sensitive woman no doubt that's why you've done soooo many accutane failures and nothing seems to be permanent in its effects. Acne is not related to diet at all, stop blaming yourself.

 

 

Are you talking to me?   Honey, Diet changes cleared my skin.  And I don't blame myself.  I blame everyone who ever told me diet did not affect acne. It isn't possible for it not to.  and eating the way humans should has benefits far more important than clear skin. 

 

And, honey? I tried spiro.  Didn't help.  



#7 darkheart

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:12 PM

 

I think i may know why people "grow out of acne" In essence, when you are in college and highschool, you eat junk food majority of the time . However, once we move past college, we tend to eat home cooked food. Now, the home cooked food may not be entirerly heAlthy (grain free, low in lectins, dairy free etc) but it is most likely no where near as bad as junk food and fast food (which is full of vegetable oil). Thus, once you change your diet , maybe your body changes and thus you are not acne prone anymore

 

People tend to "grow out of acne" at around 18-20 years because at this age for the majority their bodies have finally become used to processing their "sex hormones" (DHT ect) no longer resulting in over activity of sebaceous glands. When someone "grows out of acne" they become immune to the effects of androgens; androgen insensitive. Just in the same way someone grows out of childhood Asthma ect.

 

 

 

 

>> 

 Thus, once you change your diet , maybe your body changes and thus you are not acne prone anymore?

 

Changing your diet does 'change your body', but unfortunately, for far too many people, the 'home cooked diet' is not much better than potato chips and pizza. 

 

 

 

 

Honey? go on spironolactone. Go to an endocrinologist. Your are an androgen sensitive woman no doubt that's why you've done soooo many accutane failures and nothing seems to be permanent in its effects. Acne is not related to diet at all, stop blaming yourself.

 

 

Are you talking to me?   Honey, Diet changes cleared my skin.  And I don't blame myself.  I blame everyone who ever told me diet did not affect acne. It isn't possible for it not to.  and eating the way humans should has benefits far more important than clear skin. 

 

And, honey? I tried spiro.  Didn't help.  

 

 

Well my diet change started back in the early 2000's and it did nothing for my skin. I had cut out gluten, casein (a dairy compound), all dairy and virtually every man made food and I still had ***full body** cystic acne. I stuck to this diet for years and years. My hormone levels were always normal as there was no imbalance. I'm simply just androgen sensitive by genetics.

 

 

Diet does not cause acne. I don't care what you say or how you counter argue, Acne is a disorder of the way the pore exfoliates because of excess sebum caused by androgen sensitive hair folliculs. In Canada we're already taught this - as everyone living in this country is able to access a dermatologist or endocrinologist for free any time they want, and we have fairly advanced  science in regards to dermatology as well (miles ahead of the U.S).



#8 austra

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 12:42 PM

People didn't use to get acne 50 years ago the same way they do these days, so I just don't buy the gene explanation. Of course we are susceptible to acne because of our genes. No one is denying that, it's not our fault and it is unfair how some people can just eat and live however they want and have a clear face whereas we struggle even with our best efforts. But there is something in the current environment and our lifestyle that is causing the acne, not our genes. Most likely it's many factors, not just diet, and it's questionable how well these factors even are in our control - it could've been something that our mothers did during pregnancy or how we lived as infants that exacerbated the issue, or what chemicals we've been exposed to from the products we use. But it's not just genes. And I do think it's worth a shot to try to help your acne with diet and a healthy lifestyle. I don't think anyone can claim that it would work for everyone as we can't possibly know all the factors that could contribute to acne, but it would be ridiculous to claim that it can't help at all - it certainly has already helped many, and even cured people completely. And whether or not being healthy helps with your acne, it certainly helps you in every other way so it's never a useless endeavour.



#9 alternativista

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:16 PM

 

Diet does not cause acne. I don't care what you say or how you counter argue, Acne is a disorder of the way the pore exfoliates because of excess sebum caused by androgen sensitive hair folliculs. In Canada we're already taught this - as everyone living in this country is able to access a dermatologist or endocrinologist for free any time they want, and we have fairly advanced  science in regards to dermatology as well (miles ahead of the U.S).

 

 

Well, you are taught wrong, just like most people in the U. S..   Androgens and sebum are only part of the issue.  The androgens stimulate excess sebum, but that doesn't cause acne. It just doesn't help.  Many people have oily, but clear skin. And many people have dry skin but have acne.  

 

Now the quality of the sebum can make a difference on whether it clogs pores. And the quality of your sebum is also affected by diet. Just like your androgen levels are affected by diet. 

 

And I already said diet doesn't cause acne any more than it causes diabetes.  It's just has a huge impact on them  and a proper diet can prevent, control and even reverse such conditions. 

 

You should try doing some actual research rather than go by the dumbed down and outdated info you where taught in middle school.   Researchers have actually discovered a lot more than your 'acne for simpleton' level of understanding.  Especially researchers at Universities in Europe, Asia and Australia.  And then there's the genes that have been identified as different in acne prone skin. And actually, none that I've read about have anything to do with androgens.  Such as those that cause the deficiency of linoleic acid in our sebum. Or those that inhibit the production of retinoids in our skin. 


Edited by alternativista, 28 February 2013 - 02:21 PM.


#10 darkheart

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:36 PM

 

 

Diet does not cause acne. I don't care what you say or how you counter argue, Acne is a disorder of the way the pore exfoliates because of excess sebum caused by androgen sensitive hair folliculs. In Canada we're already taught this - as everyone living in this country is able to access a dermatologist or endocrinologist for free any time they want, and we have fairly advanced  science in regards to dermatology as well (miles ahead of the U.S).

 

 

Well, you are taught wrong, just like most people in the U. S..   Androgens and sebum are only part of the issue.  The androgens stimulate excess sebum, but that doesn't cause acne. It just doesn't help.  Many people have oily, but clear skin. And many people have dry skin but have acne.  

 

Now the quality of the sebum can make a difference on whether it clogs pores. And the quality of your sebum is also affected by diet. Just like your androgen levels are affected by diet. 

 

And I already said diet doesn't cause acne any more than it causes diabetes.  It's just has a huge impact on them  and a proper diet can prevent, control and even reverse such conditions. 

 

You should try doing some actual research rather than go by the dumbed down and outdated info you where taught in middle school.   Researchers have actually discovered a lot more than your 'acne for simpleton' level of understanding.  Especially researchers at Universities in Europe, Asia and Australia.  And then there's the genes that have been identified as different in acne prone skin. And actually, none that I've read about have anything to do with androgens.  Such as those that cause the deficiency of linoleic acid in our sebum. Or those that inhibit the production of retinoids in our skin. 

 

 I was vegan for 5 years eating a diet devoid of casein, dairy and gluten and every other hypothesized food that causes or aggravates acne and I still broke out in cystic pimples all over my body more than 200 times a day. It's not what I ate at all - it was something in my genetic makeup. This was passed down from my mother who had the same type of aggressive acne that did not alleviate until she was 42 years old after a full hysterectomy and then her skin was perfectly clear. I did nothing wrong and everything I could to try to "cure" my acne following every word of the kooky natural pathic doctors that basically drove me into an eating disorder as I was afraid to eat all man made or processed food after their "claims". My face is almost perfect now due to Spironolactone which has helped make me near or almost androgen insensitive.


Edited by darkheart, 28 February 2013 - 07:37 PM.


#11 alternativista

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:25 PM

200 cysts a day? That isn't normal acne. So you limited sugar and processed foods in your vegan diet? And just ate real, whole plant foods and not a lot of vegan faux foods? If you couldn't eat right without developing an eating disorder it sounds like you were not eating right or seriously suffering from stress which also 'causes' acne.

Btw, I believe that cysts and nodules tend to be some kind of reaction to a food, or environmental/topical substance. Or perhaps to stress, like hives. I get nodules when I eat citrus. They appear the next day. I believe my father had the same intolerance. But that is completely separate from the oily skin and more normal types of acne I used to get before I improved my diet.

Spiro doesn't just affect androgens, btw. It's main use was to treat hypertension until newer drugs came along. And it's a glucocorticoid steroid which means its anti inflammatory and it affects cortisol, both of which are factors in acne.

Edited by alternativista, 28 February 2013 - 09:28 PM.


#12 darkheart

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:11 PM

200 cysts a day? That isn't normal acne. So you limited sugar and processed foods in your vegan diet? And just ate real, whole plant foods and not a lot of vegan faux foods? If you couldn't eat right without developing an eating disorder it sounds like you were not eating right or seriously suffering from stress which also 'causes' acne.

Btw, I believe that cysts and nodules tend to be some kind of reaction to a food, or environmental/topical substance. Or perhaps to stress, like hives. I get nodules when I eat citrus. They appear the next day. I believe my father had the same intolerance. But that is completely separate from the oily skin and more normal types of acne I used to get before I improved my diet.

Spiro doesn't just affect androgens, btw. It's main use was to treat hypertension until newer drugs came along. And it's a glucocorticoid steroid which means its anti inflammatory and it affects cortisol, both of which are factors in acne.

 

Nope. I was very strict. Prepared all my own meals and the majority of what I ate was organically grown vegetables. i didn't eat anything like "Vegan gluten free chips" or any of that sh*t. I ate all natural foods.

 

No big psychological stressers either. A very balanced person in terms of my mood.

 

I realize spiro is both a water pill and an antinflammatory. I know I have a genetic predisposition to acne but also wonder about a certain autoimmune component as well to it. As I was experiencing both Swollen lymph nodes on my neck and groin and a shingles like rash (That the doctors couldn't find a cause for) during this time. My lymph nodes still mysteriously swell from time to time and I often wonder if there's an underlying autoimmune disorder (as my mother has Sarcoidosis).


Edited by darkheart, 28 February 2013 - 10:12 PM.


#13 Green Gables

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:36 PM

To OP:

 

I read a study a while back showing that the DHT/5-alpha-reductase process actually changed the quality of sebum. Sebum is stickier when there is a lot of DHT/5-alpha conversions going on.

 

From what I understand, many people with acne problems have androgen receptors that receive the testosterone and then turn it into DHT via the enzyme 5-alpha-reductase...more often than clear-skinned people do. The net result is the sebum is stickier. 

 

This is why altering or impeding the DHT/5-alpha process helps acne in many, whether that's spironolactone or high quantities of pantothenic acid or whatever. 

 

Diet, exercise, stress, sleep, sex, and all other parts of life, interplay into your endocrine system. Pretty much everything you do is driven by and affects your hormones. The way I see it, all of these cures are just different angles at attacking the hormone issue. Some people modulate hormones by controlling sexual arousal. Some by sleep and exercise. Some by diet. Some by herbal supplements or prescription pills. 

 

I think the unfortunate part of it is that we just don't know enough about hormones to really measure what's going on. One of my friends in med school said they are really pushing for more endocrinologists because there is so much more to learn about hormones. 

 

Be careful about making generalizations. I remember when that book "French Women Don't Get Fat" book came out. Now I've been to France. There are definitely many fat French women. Yes, there are less there than some other countries, but basically the title of that book was a broad generalization intended to sell books, not to proclaim truth.

 

It's just too hard to say that people who eat "home cooked" (whatever that means...the term is a little vague) meals don't have acne. My childhood diet was more healthy and Paleo-like than anyone I knew, yet I had severe acne for many years. One of my best friends came from a raw vegan home and she had putrid cystic acne (but her siblings were perfectly clear).

 

I've told you this before, but I think there is a lot of truth to the idea that your hormone system and your gut health is set into motion when you are in the womb. I think of it like this: the health of your mother's endocrines is 80% of what you get. You can control the other 20% through diet and lifestyle. I'm just throwing numbers out, but that's what my life has felt like. DEFINITELY diet and lifestyle plays a part in your acne, but us humans like to think we have control and we overestimate how much influence we really have. The best way to have clear skin is to have a mom who had a great diet, lifestyle, and endocrine system while you were in utero, then to have a really great diet/lifestyle while you're developing...but once you're developed it is pretty hard to change what is going on in there. 

 

Look at animals. If there's an animal with pus lesions on its body, it doesn't get selected in the mating process, it doesn't breed, it doesn't pass on its genes/hormones/parasites whatever. But we as humans are stuck on the idea that everyone "deserves" great genes or great health, and we continue to "cure" health problems artificially (glasses, braces, Accutane, gastric bypass, plastic surgery, Prozac, drastic diet changes), then convince someone to marry us when we look our best, then are amazed when our kids have the exact same problems we did even though we are "healthy" now...  And with cultural changes you can now be successful and rich with a good brain but a poor body... Success means you procreate... Repeat this process over centuries and see what happens to the general health of the population...

 

You may think, well my parents didn't have acne and I do. Yeah, but what was their health like when you were born? Did they have other indicators of hormonal issues that when magnified can turn into acne? Do enough digging and you will find it. I recently found out that a good chunk of my female relatives have significant hormonal issues. For some reason it manifested in me as really bad acne. But there was definitely a predisposition there out of my control.

 

Anyway there are too many factors to find a one-size-fits-all cure. We have to suck it up and do a lot of trial and error to get to clear skin.


Edited by Green Gables, 01 March 2013 - 01:49 PM.


#14 Green Gables

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:24 PM

Spiro doesn't just affect androgens, btw. It's main use was to treat hypertension until newer drugs came along. And it's a glucocorticoid steroid which means its anti inflammatory and it affects cortisol, both of which are factors in acne.

 

Just a note here...

 

Yes, spironolactone is technically glucocorticoid. However our friend Wikipedia says:

 

It does not significantly bind to either of the two estrogen receptors (ERα, ERβ), nor is its very weak activity at the glucocorticoid receptor listed above considered to be significant at clinically relevant concentrations.

 

Also

 

Spironolactone has actually been shown to increase cortisol levels, both with acute and chronic administration. This has been elucidated to be due to its antagonism of the mineralocorticoid receptor, which suppresses negative feedback on the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis. The HPA axis positively regulates the secretion of adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), which in turn signals the adrenal glands, the major source of corticosteroid biosynthesis in the body, to increase production of glucocorticoids, and so by disinhibiting it, spironolactone raises their circulating levels. Thus, any antiglucocorticoid activity of spironolactone via suppression of glucocorticoid synthesis appears to be more than fully offset by its concurrent stimulatory effects on glucocorticoid production.

 

What I gather from this is that if inflammation is the key factor in your acne, spiro will not help. 



#15 darkheart

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:52 PM

I still believe acne is caused by a sensitivity to androgen hormones passed down from mom and dad. I bought into this "leaky gut" notion for years after constantly seeing someone that specialized in chinese medicine and did the whole probiotic deal and casein free, dairy and gluten free business but it never helped. I doubt I ever had gut issues as I never was on antibiotics for more than a few days as a child and didn't experience any intestinal distress either.

 

A "leaky gut" and "adrenal fatigue" are in my mind are not real conditions. It's just something health nut people have tried to come up with to explain all these "chronic inflammatory" disorders plaguing western society.



#16 alternativista

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:24 PM

I think i may know why people "grow out of acne" In essence, when you are in college and highschool, you eat junk food majority of the time . However, once we move past college, we tend to eat home cooked food. Now, the home cooked food may not be entirerly heAlthy (grain free, low in lectins, dairy free etc) but it is most likely no where near as bad as junk food and fast food (which is full of vegetable oil). Thus, once you change your diet , maybe your body changes and thus you are not acne prone anymore?



Another reason is that you produce more ZAG enzymes as you age. And ZAG is one of the two enzymes involved in disdolving the intercellular matrix binding your skin cels together so that they can exfoliate freely without clogging pores. There really are many mechanisms at work that change as you mature.

And you can not just change your body/ hormones with nutrition, you can change your genes. The sulfur containing amino acids are the key to genetic switches. Eat your greens.