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#1 Alexromero

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 12:23 AM

So im 17 years old and have had acne for 3 years now. My acne started off being the occasional pimple than it flared up at 14 and become moderate to severe acne. I use to just use a cleanser every morning and night and thought that if you used a cleanser than your acne would dissapear like a magic product, but than I came to realise having acne is extremally complicated and you need to figure out what's right for you. So I started the phase where you constantly change products until you find something that works and I have tried everything but it wasent until I found this site to realise that it wasent what I was using, it was how. Before I used all my products on my face constantly and aggressively out of frustration. I was convinced that if I washed my face 3-4 times a day my face would be clear in no time. But than I figured out that washing your face a bunch and scrubbing does more harm than good. Anyway now my acne has gotten better as I have started to use a regimen which consists of cetaphil cleanser, witch hazel toner, benzyl peroxide 2.5%, and a spf 30 collagen cream. These products work out for me but they only do so much, I get to a point where my acne is clearing up but there is still redness. So I looked at my diet and I realised that I have always had a low tolerance for Dairy and when I was a kid and even now when ever I have dairy I get ex ma around my lips under my legs and also the underside of my arms. And before I thought that dairy only gave me ex ma and never linked it to my acne, but now I think it does link to my acne as redness is the problem in my skin. so I have quit dairy foods and instantly my skin started to clear up but im confused about eggs. Can I eat eggs? they have hormones in them and I have hormonal acne so im not too sure if I can eat them or not, and when I say eat them I mean I eat them raw and cooked and when they are raw the egg white has bacteria in it so im not sure if that's the cause or if its the hormones. Anyway some one help me and also can someone tell me if eating tuna and salmon is good or bad for my acne I get pimples from fish oil pills but I figured that's because its very potent. 



#2 Rorius

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:24 PM

Acne has never been shown to have a strong connection to diet, although it's generally accepted that dairy products can potentially worsen acne (although I've never noticed a difference).

 

Go to a dermatologist if your acne is causing you concern & OTC products aren't working.



#3 alternativista

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:09 PM

Acne has been shown to have a strong connection to diet. Just like everything else going on in your body.  Regardless of whether the average dermatologist has been taught that or keeps up with research which actually goes back decades.   

 

And OP, you will have to test for yourself whether or not you can eat eggs.  I'm not sure what hormones you are talking about, but it is common to be allergic to eggs, usually to the whites.  Try to get them from pastured hens.  



#4 Rorius

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:08 PM

Acne has been shown to have a strong connection to diet.

 

Is there any research to back this up? I've never found any well conducted trials that haven't been inconclusive, apart from a few that show loose links to long-term dairy intake.



#5 chunkylard

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:59 PM

If you get quail eggs or duck eggs, the egg whites don't have Avidin (the protein in egg whites that many people have issues with.) 

 

You can purchase quail or duck eggs in Asian/Indian groceries. You might be able to find them in health food stores, but I've never personally seen them. The only place I've been able to get them is an Asian market. 

 

 



 

Acne has been shown to have a strong connection to diet.

 

Is there any research to back this up? I've never found any well conducted trials that haven't been inconclusive, apart from a few that show loose links to long-term dairy intake.

 

 

http://www.acne.org/...cne-connection/

 

Just as an fyi, "inconclusive" in studies doesn't mean much. I found a study that showed very clearly that vegetarians have more psychological disorders than non-vegetarians and yet the conclusion of the study was "inconclusive." 

 

Inconclusive conclusion = more of a reason to do more studies = more grant money for R&D lab researchers = researchers who are familiar with the study get to work longer = job stability = money. 


Edited by chunkylard, 18 February 2013 - 09:09 PM.


#6 sepsi

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:53 AM

Scientifically speaking, the connection between diet and acne is anything but settled. There is more evidence that diet affects acne than it doesn't. But the studies linking diet to acne are not conclusive. The dairy-acne studies are all epidemiological and as such can't say anything about causation.
 
There is better evidence for sugar and high GI carbohydrates causing acne, but even that could be better. Most of it comes from the same researchers, so there's need for more independent replication.
 
 
All this said, I think it's scientifically unjustified to hold the position that diet has no effect on acne. Given what we know of the effect of insulin and IGF-1 on acne, the connection between diet and acne is highly plausible. One can always ask for more research, but dermatologists should at least inform their patients of the possibility.


#7 alternativista

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 07:23 AM

The only things inconclusive about the diet studies are some usually unimportant detail about what exactly in whatever diet studied provided the benefit. So they want to pinpoint something that can't be pinpointed. The body is a system with billions of processes going on. Everyone's body does slightly different things with the nutrients it receives and about the crap that is done to it. And different aspects of the diet can have a greater impact one one person than it does on another. And there are so many nutrient deficiencies and events that end up producing the symptom of acne.

What is crystal clear to me is that diet affects everything going on in your body and if you want it to function right and be disease free, you have to eat right.

And it's absolutely ridiculous to think diet does not affect acne. It's not possible for it not to.

#8 Rorius

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:33 AM

 

Just as an fyi, "inconclusive" in studies doesn't mean much. I found a study that showed very clearly that vegetarians have more psychological disorders than non-vegetarians and yet the conclusion of the study was "inconclusive." 

 

Inconclusive conclusion = more of a reason to do more studies = more grant money for R&D lab researchers = researchers who are familiar with the study get to work longer = job stability = money. 

 

No, this isn't how it works. A big part of my occupation is assessing the quality of scientific research for citing. The work I look at are physics & engineering based rather than medical, but the principles are the same. The paper you describe will have a reason pointing to some kind of bias as to why it's inconclusive, if results are as you describe.

 

If there is suspicion of bias due to the influence of a company wanting certain results, it will return poor peer reviews & be regarded as low-quality research- something that the FDA, NHS, or whatever body will be well aware of.

 

Thanks for the link though, I haven't seen that yet.

 

 

 

And it's absolutely ridiculous to think diet does not affect acne. It's not possible for it not to.

 

I agree, but I was asking more about any real research on the topic rather than for opinions.


Edited by Rorius, 19 February 2013 - 09:38 AM.


#9 alternativista

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:14 AM


>And it's absolutely ridiculous to think diet does not affect acne. It's not possible for it not to.

 

I agree, but I was asking more about any real research on the topic rather than for opinions.

 

And that was answered.  Studies dating back many decades have found connections between various nutrients and the various factors that lead to acne and other hormonal disorders. And even the connection between gut health and acne was found as far back as 1912. Whether or not they were able to conclude exactly how.  And in more recent decades, they have specifically tested low glycemic and more nutrient dense diets on acne sufferers and found that most improved. And then there's the dairy studies which have found that dairy, especially unfermented cow dairy, both contains and stimulates IGF1 and DHT (by containing a precursor) both of which are known culprits in acne. 

 

 

Just as an fyi, "inconclusive" in studies doesn't mean much. I found a study that showed very clearly that vegetarians have more psychological disorders than non-vegetarians and yet the conclusion of the study was "inconclusive." 

 

Inconclusive conclusion = more of a reason to do more studies = more grant money for R&D lab researchers = researchers who are familiar with the study get to work longer = job stability = money. 

 

No, this isn't how it works. A big part of my occupation is assessing the quality of scientific research for citing. The work I look at are physics & engineering based rather than medical, but the principles are the same. The paper you describe will have a reason pointing to some kind of bias as to why it's inconclusive, if results are as you describe.

 

If there is suspicion of bias due to the influence of a company wanting certain results, it will return poor peer reviews & be regarded as low-quality research- something that the FDA, NHS, or whatever body will be well aware of.

 

Thanks for the link though, I haven't seen that yet.

 

 

 

Evidently not considering number of accepted studies later determined to be not just wrong, but fraudulent.  I imagine the money involved in medicine makes it a completely different ballgame than your area of expertise. I would not assume your knowledge applies. 


Edited by alternativista, 19 February 2013 - 10:15 AM.


#10 sepsi

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:17 AM

The only things inconclusive about the diet studies are some usually unimportant detail about what exactly in whatever diet studied provided the benefit. So they want to pinpoint something that can't be pinpointed. The body is a system with billions of processes going on. Everyone's body does slightly different things with the nutrients it receives and about the crap that is done to it. And different aspects of the diet can have a greater impact one one person than it does on another. And there are so many nutrient deficiencies and events that end up producing the symptom of acne.

What is crystal clear to me is that diet affects everything going on in your body and if you want it to function right and be disease free, you have to eat right.

And it's absolutely ridiculous to think diet does not affect acne. It's not possible for it not to.

 

 

You are jumping the gun. While I agree that the evidence suggests diet affects acne, it's far from conclusive scientifically speaking. For example, so far there are no intervention studies on dairy. All the studies are epidemiological and cannot say anything about the direction of causality. For the dairy-acne connection to be shown conclusively we need studies that show unambiguously that reduction in dairy intake leads to reduction in acne. NO such studies are done.
 
Some such studies are done with regards to sugar and carbohydrates. But most of those come from the same research group. This means possibility of bias. Not to mention that the studies are fairly small. This is suggestive but not conclusive evidence. And it's definitely not about trying to pinpoint something that can't be pinpointed.
 
The history of medicine is full of mistakes where earlier, preliminary research suggested something, but later conclusive research showed this not to be the case. Take for example the SELECT study on prostate cancer. Less conclusive evidence suggested that vitamin E and selenium would reduce prostate cancer and many doctors believe into it. Yet, when this large and rigorous study came out the results were completely different.
 
 
There's a big difference in saying it's plausible that diet affects acne and saying it's been shown conclusively. I think there's enough evidence that dermatologists should at least talk about it with patients. But there certainly isn't enough evidence to warrant putting dietary recommendations into official acne treatment guidelines.
 
For that to happen, we still need to learn a lot more. For example, how to tell which people respond to dietary changes and which people don't. For I'm sure you are aware that there are plenty of people who have passed through these forums who haven't gotten much benefits from dietary changes.


#11 Rorius

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:33 AM

Evidently not considering number of accepted studies later determined to be not just wrong, but fraudulent.  I imagine the money involved in medicine makes it a completely different ballgame than your area of expertise. I would not assume your knowledge applies. 

 

No need to imagine & assume, it's very easy to look up this information. A lot of research is funded by Boeing, for example. Which turns over some $20 Billion more than Johnson & Johnson, which is the biggest Pharmaceutical company in the world. As a whole, the engineering industry is much larger. I don't really understand where you're coming from in the first sentence.

 

Totally agree with Sepsi. Personally, I think diet can have a small effect but as with most other conditions, acne needs to be treated with proper medication. I don't think we'll ever get any proper large scale studies on diet alone, as there would be no one would fund it :( maybe if one of us becomes a millionaire?



#12 kaleidoscope

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:30 PM

Many of us don't feel the need to wait around for such studies. We've done our own personal trials and have seen good results. Everyone is different in terms of which foods they can tolerate, and it can take a lot of trial and error to determine which foods are or aren't causing breakouts.

Edited by kaleidoscope, 20 February 2013 - 01:31 PM.


#13 alternativista

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:29 AM



Evidently not considering number of accepted studies later determined to be not just wrong, but fraudulent.  I imagine the money involved in medicine makes it a completely different ballgame than your area of expertise. I would not assume your knowledge applies. 

 
No need to imagine & assume, it's very easy to look up this information. A lot of research is funded by Boeing, for example. Which turns over some $20 Billion more than Johnson & Johnson, which is the biggest Pharmaceutical company in the world. As a whole, the engineering industry is much larger. I don't really understand where you're coming from in the first sentence.
 
Totally agree with Sepsi. Personally, I think diet can have a small effect but as with most other conditions, acne needs to be treated with proper medication. I don't think we'll ever get any proper large scale studies on diet alone, as there would be no one would fund it :( maybe if one of us becomes a millionaire?
I suggest you start looking into the vast volume of rescinded medical studies due to error and outright fraud. And then there's the selective publication. Big pharm doesn't publish studies that don't produce the results they are hoping for.

And, yes, there's no profit in the truth about how much diet and lifestyle prevent, control and even reverse the lifestyle caused diseases that are now the fast growing diseases in history. That's stating the obvious. And that would be why most of the research is done by universities. Usually not American universities, its interesting to note. They are less indoctrinated in the belief that everyone is sick because of a lack of drugs elsewhere in the world.

Also, i'm.a formerly severe acne sufferer who cleared their acne completely for the first time via diet changes after decades of dermis and drugs did nothing. Diet has a huge impact on acne.

Edited by alternativista, 21 February 2013 - 08:34 AM.