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Saw Palmetto & Candida Diet

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#1 WishClean

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

HI everyone,
I just started the candida diet (I'm not doing the first part/cleansing, just the 2nd part diet), and am taking probiotics as well. I seem to have high testosterone/ androgens, so I wanted to take saw palmetto in hopes of balancing my hormones. I used to take vitex but after a prolonged period it caused excess hair growth in some body parts and some hair loss on my head, as well as some rashes and hives. Now that I stopped taking it, the hives have gone but my acne has flared up even worse. This tells me I need to tackle my hormonal imbalance via a different herb because vitex was probably not the right one at the time. My practitioner also told me that my PCOS external symptoms resemble more closely androgen dominance (hair growth patterns, increased sex drive) rather than estrogen or progesterone because I do not carry extra weight etc (not very reliable criteria, but they might be indicative of what hormone I need to target).
My questions are:
1. Do you recommend starting saw palmetto while I'm doing the candida diet (again, not as strict, but avoiding key things like sugars, flour, gluten, fructose etc) and probiotics, or would that be too much?
2. If you do recommend the saw palmetto in conjunction with my current regimen, then what brand, what form (liquid/ tincture, capsule etc), and what DOSAGE would you recommend?
3. Did you notice any side effects in females?

Thank you!

Edited by WishClean28, 15 January 2013 - 03:28 PM.


#2 Green Gables

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 11:42 AM

640-1200 mg a day for females.

Make sure to take herbal antifungals as well such as pau d'arco or oregon grape

#3 Ind1g0

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 12:24 PM

Green Gables- I saw the link in your signature about low progesterone (which means higher estrogen/dominance) can actually create HIGH androgens. One would think that is counter intuitive, because one would think if we had estrogen dominance, we would have LOW androgens (estrogen + androgen seem opposite each other). Anyways, I found it really interesting, and for the purpose of helping the poster of this thread, would it make sense to take vitex (to help balance progesterone and estrogen) as well as saw palmetto (to help lower androgens) at the same same?

#4 alternativista

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

Green Gables- I saw the link in your signature about low progesterone (which means higher estrogen/dominance) can actually create HIGH androgens. One would think that is counter intuitive, because one would think if we had estrogen dominance, we would have LOW androgens (estrogen + androgen seem opposite each other). Anyways, I found it really interesting, and for the purpose of helping the poster of this thread, would it make sense to take vitex (to help balance progesterone and estrogen) as well as saw palmetto (to help lower androgens) at the same same?


Estrogen dominance is about its relation to progesterone.

#5 WishClean

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:30 PM

640-1200 mg a day for females.

Make sure to take herbal antifungals as well such as pau d'arco or oregon grape


Green Gables - I am taking solgar's standardized full potency saw palmetto, and each pill contains 150mg standardized and 300 mg raw saw palmetto powder. So how do I calculate the full amount of mgs in this case? On the bottle it says to take up to 3 a day. I'm a bit scared of taking additional herbs like nettle and pau d'arco because I wanted to see if the saw palmetto is working first (also, sometimes I get a rash from certain herbal teas, and I also get insomnia from chamomile tea, so I wanted to see if I would have any weird reactions). But do you think pau d'arco would speed up the effectiveness of saw palmetto, or will I see results from just saw palmetto and the probiotics I'm taking for the candida diet?
And another question (sorry for all the qs!), is there a particular order to take these to increase their efficiency? Now I'm taking a probiotic 15 mins before each meal, then saw palmetto with the meal or right after.

Green Gables- I saw the link in your signature about low progesterone (which means higher estrogen/dominance) can actually create HIGH androgens. One would think that is counter intuitive, because one would think if we had estrogen dominance, we would have LOW androgens (estrogen + androgen seem opposite each other). Anyways, I found it really interesting, and for the purpose of helping the poster of this thread, would it make sense to take vitex (to help balance progesterone and estrogen) as well as saw palmetto (to help lower androgens) at the same same?


Green Gables- I saw the link in your signature about low progesterone (which means higher estrogen/dominance) can actually create HIGH androgens. One would think that is counter intuitive, because one would think if we had estrogen dominance, we would have LOW androgens (estrogen + androgen seem opposite each other). Anyways, I found it really interesting, and for the purpose of helping the poster of this thread, would it make sense to take vitex (to help balance progesterone and estrogen) as well as saw palmetto (to help lower androgens) at the same same?


Estrogen dominance is about its relation to progesterone.


I read that there might be interactions between vitex and saw palmetto.... I grew hair in places I had never grown before with vitex (chin, cheeks, chest) so I am kind of reluctant to start taking it again with saw palmetto, even though it had cleared me for a while. I think I took vitex for too long and my body no longer needed it, and then it became too excessive and caused some serious flare ups (along with EPO - but I think it was mainly vitex that caused the reaction). Any suggestions? Will I create a new hormonal imbalance if I just take saw palmetto to lower androgens without vitex or other estrogen-boosting herb?

Edited by WishClean28, 16 January 2013 - 07:34 PM.


#6 Green Gables

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:41 AM

The relationship between the hormones isn't a really simple equation. So it's not like if you have high estrogen it cancels out your androgens. You can have high estrogen and high androgens and still have androgen symptoms.

The reason low progesterone can lead to both high estrogen and high androgens is because progesterone is a really beneficial regulatory hormone. It keeps both estrogen and androgens at their proper levels.

Unless you are experiencing clear symptoms of low estrogen, I would not supplement with estrogen. Low estrogen isn't very common pre-menopause. Lowering your androgen levels most likely won't have any effect on your estrogen.

I recommended pau d'arco and oregon grape because antifungals should be a solid part of a candida diet, not because they have been shown to help acne. They are not antiandrogens. But if you have a candida problem, you won't get very far with the candida on diet alone. Candida is a fungus and does need some antifungal help.

If you can link me to an info page online of your exact product, I can tell you how many mgs of your product is actually doing something.

As for when to take saw palmetto, just take it with meals when it's convenient, really. It's usually better to split your dose up twice a day.

Edited by Green Gables, 17 January 2013 - 12:41 AM.


#7 doodleme123

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:37 AM

Pau d'arco can weaken the immune system, as a side effect.

#8 Green Gables

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:58 AM

Pau d'arco can weaken the immune system, as a side effect.


According to the Candida Diet website, yes, though I haven't seen that corroborated elsewhere. It also says

If used in large quantities Pau D’Arco has sometimes been found to weaken the immune system, so keep your doses small.


But it doesn't say what a "large quantity" is.

#9 doodleme123

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:45 AM


Pau d'arco can weaken the immune system, as a side effect.


According to the Candida Diet website, yes, though I haven't seen that corroborated elsewhere. It also says

If used in large quantities Pau D’Arco has sometimes been found to weaken the immune system, so keep your doses small.


But it doesn't say what a "large quantity" is.


My medical book states that several grams daily of lapachol (primary active compound in Pau D' Arco) over several days can cause side effects.

#10 WishClean

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:51 PM

hmm... maybe just a cup of pau d'arco tea per day for the first 1-2 weeks of the candida diet is safe enough?
Green gables, here is the information about the solgar saw palmetto I am taking. How many capsules do you think I will need to take daily to notice a difference? http://www.solgar.co...le-Capsules.htm

#11 Green Gables

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:17 AM

hmm... maybe just a cup of pau d'arco tea per day for the first 1-2 weeks of the candida diet is safe enough?
Green gables, here is the information about the solgar saw palmetto I am taking. How many capsules do you think I will need to take daily to notice a difference? http://www.solgar.co...le-Capsules.htm


use the standardized extract portion as your measurement. so each pill contains 150mg. the clinical study done on saw palmetto used 320mg of saw palmetto a day to see results over several weeks.

personally if i were using saw palmetto i would use around 600mg a day.

#12 WishClean

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:04 PM

.

Edited by WishClean28, 18 January 2013 - 02:14 PM.


#13 WishClean

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:06 PM

Thanks! Hopefully that will give me some results...I noticed that my skin has been calmer these past few days (even in the midst of PMS), but that is probably also due to cutting out refined sugar and dairy. I'll post updates if there are any.

#14 WishClean

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:08 PM

Thanks! Hopefully that will give me some results...I noticed that my skin has been calmer these past few days (even in the midst of PMS), but that is probably also due to cutting out refined sugar and dairy. I'll post updates if there are any.

#15 WishClean

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:08 PM

Thanks! Hopefully that will give me some results...I noticed that my skin has been calmer these past few days (even in the midst of PMS), but that is probably also due to cutting out refined sugar and dairy. I'll post updates if there are any.

#16 WishClean

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 02:10 PM

argh! apologies for multi-posting. How do I delete duplicate posts?

Edited by WishClean28, 18 January 2013 - 02:13 PM.