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Why I Hate Owndoc.com Reasons

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REASONS i hate owndoc.com

1) i tried to understand why they dont sell the 1 mm 3 line roller and they replied because its not useful...

noone can claim that thing especially when you see results with the 1mm regulr dermaroller but you dont want to hurt the area out o the scar

2) there is a sticky in the forum with the title:How to not get Deleted or Banned from this forum :o !!!!!

3) they make exceptions to the countries which they ship their products...they dont ship to many countries

due to the claim that many tracks were lost...so i am asking: ''how this site self admires its world wide fame about the quality and effective products and methos, while in the same time they dont ship world wide...''

4) there is no free space to doubt them in a reasonable way cause that will result in a ban....

5) Sara Vaughter replied to me like that because i live in a country that she doesnt ship:''i see you live in **(name of country)

we dont ship there ... I can not answer emails from people who are not potential customers ...:o:o

so my wish for owndoc.com:

wish dermaneedlin would have an anti aging impact in ther mentality and way of thinking and not only in their skin

feel free to comment :positively or negatively ..it doesnt matter ..its a free forum:)


If you're bored of Suburbia, burn down your house,lets dance in the colour of the fire.


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no doubt i ordered some stuff this week from there ...b4 i ordered i asked a question on there forums and they just deleted it !!!!

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Panos posted on our forum that he did not believe we were truly brand-independent with our dermarollers, while giving no sensible arguments for that serious accusation. He said that not selling a 1 mm three-liner dermaroller proves that we have a "hidden agenda".. The posting was rude in tone and against the forum rules ("do not post allegations of malfeasance") so I removed his posting and notified him of the reason. I take allegations that imply that I am somehow not to be trusted very seriously and I get very angry when someone accuses me (on my own forum!) of being a liar.

The reason that we are very strict in what we allow and not allow on our forum is that it is intended as a public info-database on our products. It is in no way, shape or form intended as a discussion platform on dermaneedling or to discuss our business decisions and other meta, and we are exceedingly clear about that. I just don't have the time for such discussions. I receive dozens of questions every day by email as well.

So I occasionally remove postings for various reasons, and those reasons are clearly stated in our forum rules. When a question has already been answered, for example, it is often deleted. I understand this may be frustrating, but I really have no other choice. I really, really do not have the time to answer the same question more than once or twice or three times. Have you seen how many questions I have answered on my forum? Thousands of postings, each answering several questions. I answered ten thousand questions on that forum. I am truly sorry but if you do not want to adhere to the forum rules (which includes searching before you ask a question), my only option is to make the forum read-only, and that would be "collective punishment", which would be unfair.

Panos then proceeded to send initially quite rude emails to me. I replied that he had violated our forum rules and I explained why we don't sell 1 mm narrow dermarollers (a waste of money, since they are for the targeted treatment of scars and hence too short). But he thought that this proves that I have something to hide. When I asked politely not to be so rude and at least identify himself, he said "my name is not important" and he kept pestering me, this time more politely, to enable Greece as a shipping destination. I received about a dozen emails from him. I explained that we unfortunately had to drop Greece as a shipping destination because even tracked, insured, signed-for shipments did not always arrive in the past. No company can be expected to structurally lose money on shipping to certain countries. There is nothing we would like better than to sell to the entire world, but unfortunately, reality sometimes gets in the way.

I do not have the time to dispense tailor-made skin treatment advice to rude folks who publicly allege that I am not to be trusted. When Panos feels slighted about that and revenges himself publicly by putting us on the first page of Google on why he hates me, so be it. I have a business to run and the small margin that we have on our products simply doesn't allow for arguing about dermarollers and about whether or not I am trying to scam our customers with someone in a country we don't even ship to. I give free advice to people in countries we don't ship to often enough, but not to anonymous people who insult me and say they don't trust me.

Of course you can ask critical questions on our forum. People do that all the time, and we hardly ever delete such questions. People have been asking very critical questions that irritated and frustrated me ("dermarolling destroyed my skin!!!" and "Does your cream cause liver failure???" etc.) but I let them stand and anwer them in great detail. Why? Because the poster did not insult me or alleged that I am lying.

I expect common decency in all communications and I enforce our forum rules for the benefit of our customers. I think that is reasonable, but with 20000 customers/year there will always be some people with an axe to grind. I am certainly not known for my sweetness, that's for sure. See the "about" section of my site as to why.

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sarah i have seen great improvements from needling and retin a

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hi sara , i just want to ask about why owndoc site doesn't work here in egypt?, from 2 months ago i opened site many times without any problems, but now it doesn't work!?,i want to order some products and to order it, i should send the link of product on site to acompany here in egypt,this company has abranch in U.S.,so they will purchase these products from US and send them to egypt , i hope you can answer my question,thanks in advance??

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Panos posted on our forum that he did not believe we were truly brand-independent with our dermarollers, while giving no sensible arguments for that serious accusation. He said that not selling a 1 mm three-liner dermaroller proves that we have a "hidden agenda".. The posting was rude in tone and against the forum rules ("do not post allegations of malfeasance") so I removed his posting and notified him of the reason. I take allegations that imply that I am somehow not to be trusted very seriously and I get very angry when someone accuses me (on my own forum!) of being a liar.

The reason that we are very strict in what we allow and not allow on our forum is that it is intended as a public info-database on our products. It is in no way, shape or form intended as a discussion platform on dermaneedling or to discuss our business decisions and other meta, and we are exceedingly clear about that. I just don't have the time for such discussions. I receive dozens of questions every day by email as well.

So I occasionally remove postings for various reasons, and those reasons are clearly stated in our forum rules. When a question has already been answered, for example, it is often deleted. I understand this may be frustrating, but I really have no other choice. I really, really do not have the time to answer the same question more than once or twice or three times. Have you seen how many questions I have answered on my forum? Thousands of postings, each answering several questions. I answered ten thousand questions on that forum. I am truly sorry but if you do not want to adhere to the forum rules (which includes searching before you ask a question), my only option is to make the forum read-only, and that would be "collective punishment", which would be unfair.

Panos then proceeded to send initially quite rude emails to me. I replied that he had violated our forum rules and I explained why we don't sell 1 mm narrow dermarollers (a waste of money, since they are for the targeted treatment of scars and hence too short). But he thought that this proves that I have something to hide. When I asked politely not to be so rude and at least identify himself, he said "my name is not important" and he kept pestering me, this time more politely, to enable Greece as a shipping destination. I received about a dozen emails from him. I explained that we unfortunately had to drop Greece as a shipping destination because even tracked, insured, signed-for shipments did not always arrive in the past. No company can be expected to structurally lose money on shipping to certain countries. There is nothing we would like better than to sell to the entire world, but unfortunately, reality sometimes gets in the way.

I do not have the time to dispense tailor-made skin treatment advice to rude folks who publicly allege that I am not to be trusted. When Panos feels slighted about that and revenges himself publicly by putting us on the first page of Google on why he hates me, so be it. I have a business to run and the small margin that we have on our products simply doesn't allow for arguing about dermarollers and about whether or not I am trying to scam our customers with someone in a country we don't even ship to. I give free advice to people in countries we don't ship to often enough, but not to anonymous people who insult me and say they don't trust me.

Of course you can ask critical questions on our forum. People do that all the time, and we hardly ever delete such questions. People have been asking very critical questions that irritated and frustrated me ("dermarolling destroyed my skin!!!" and "Does your cream cause liver failure???" etc.) but I let them stand and anwer them in great detail. Why? Because the poster did not insult me or alleged that I am lying.

I expect common decency in all communications and I enforce our forum rules for the benefit of our customers. I think that is reasonable, but with 20000 customers/year there will always be some people with an axe to grind. I am certainly not known for my sweetness, that's for sure. See the "about" section of my site as to why.


If you're bored of Suburbia, burn down your house,lets dance in the colour of the fire.


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Hi Sarah, I don't have an opinion on this argument but your comments regarding 1mm rollers is misleading. There are different levels of skin thickness on the face so using 1mm needles is not always a waste of money. It's not very smart to use longer needles on the temple area for example or the forehead. 1.5mm and above is only useful for the fleshiest parts of the cheek.

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edit: thank you for removing my real name


If you're bored of Suburbia, burn down your house,lets dance in the colour of the fire.


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@Liquid Ocelot:

You are misrepresenting my statements. I never said 1 mm needles were always a waste of money. I regularly recommend the use of 1 mm needles. In the form of a 1 mm normal-width dermaroller (for use on the temple or forehead), or in the form of a 1 mm dermastamp. We hardly ever sold a 1 mm narrow roller when we still stocked them, because there are better alternatives.

I really don't understand why several people think there is some kind of conspiracy going on because I don't want to sell 1 mm narrow dermarollers (in order to save our customers time & money!). However, after discussing this internally, we decided to start offering every imaginary needle length for every instrument we sell, and I will add a statement such as: "We do not consider it to be the most useful instrument in its class". This will cost us many thousands of dollars in useless stock that we will never sell, but if this makes you happy, we will do it to avoid misunderstanding. Really, how would we somehow nefariously benefit in not selling 1 mm 3-liners? We sell everything that I think will improve skin conditions. But we don't sell stuff that doesn't work, or for which better alternatives exist.

I wonder whether Panos created this thread because I am "suspect" for not selling a 1 mm narrow dermaroller, or because in our email exchange, I said he was rude and I refused to ship to his country of residence.

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@pursuit of happiness:

We have been hacked several times from several countries that we do not ship to. The hacking was absolutely disastrous, Google dropped us from their index and our sales dropped to near-zero until we removed the virus and begged Google to reconsider. That repeated itself three times. Those countries now can't access our website anymore, they are blocked as part of our webmaster's security measures.

I asked him to block more countries than merely the ones where the hackers operated from. I was at that stage overwhelmed with forum and email questions from people in countries that either hardly ever purchased from us, or to which we do not ship to because not even tracked shipments arrive reliably. In fact, 80% of questions came from people who would never be our customers. I was answering literally dozens of questions a day, spending hours a day, servicing people who would then buy a cheap dermaroller from eBay, or who lived in countries where only about half of our tracked packages ever arrived. I had the choice of greatly reducing support to our paying customers (a suicidal move for a business), or blocking certain countries from accessing our website.

I understand that this is a controversial move, but I really see no other solution. I can't hire someone to answer these complex skin treatment questions for me. I am chronically fatigued (due to Lyme neuroborreliosis) and have limited mental and physical energy and ability to concentrate. I have to either stop answering most (potential) customer's questions, or I have to block access to countries we either do not sell to or who statistically would be responsible for an untenable support burden. These measures are not inspired by prejudice - they are the result of half a decade of experience.

We started out selling to the entire world. Only over the years, we slowly had to restrict selling to selected countries only, due to significant losses regarding disappearing packages - even when they were sent tracked. Then we became extremely popular, and I was spending most of my day answering questions (I still am in that situation today). Then the number of questions grew out of control and only by blocking the entire Middle East (including Israel), Africa and most of Asia I finally am able to keep up with the questions - but only barely. I am sorry if someone is inconvenienced by this. I wish there was a workable solution.

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ok so what we understand from sara's vaughter post...

1mm 3 linedermaroller is useless...and it is useless because it doesnt work...

and it doesnt work because it is 1mm and has 3 line...

( thank you for underestimate our intelligence)

(but dont forget that we know you are in cooperation with dr roller...thats not bad...

its bad to underestimate our intelligence though)...

btw i will just use your very first phrase that you have at you website...

''health and beauty site for smart people.no nonsense advice and unique products

based on medical studies and experience...

so ,if your experience is that 1mm 3 line roller is useless,then you are obviously inexperienced...


If you're bored of Suburbia, burn down your house,lets dance in the colour of the fire.


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sara do you sell any single needles that would be good for at home subcisions? i ordered the single needles you have but i need longer ones ...thanks

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Panos, if you would be able to read the email correspondence between us & Dr. Roller you would not claim we are their secret agent, lol.

Only 5% of rollers we sell are Dr. Roller. Dr. Roller is FURIOUS with us that we sell a Dr. Roller clone. They threatened to sue us over that.

On top of that, we now have our own brand, just as good as Dr. Roller. We are also the only company that ever published a picture of a damaged new Dr. Roller, with a terribly bent needle. 180 degrees curved in fact, so that it would rip the flesh straight out of your face. That picture is still up, in our dermaroller test.

I think Dr. Roller is a good brand, but overpriced. On the record, to dispel your suspicions: If you'd ask me, I'd advise you not to buy Dr. Roller but the OwnDoc brand. At least as good, but much cheaper.

You still accuse me of being in cahoots with Dr. Roller now?

Rob, please ask questions related to my business on my forum or by personal email. I don't want to have this thread decay into off-topic stuff or turn it into the "Sarah Vaughter Show"..

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i tried and you deleted the question lol thanks anywho

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Everything we sell is available in our store. If something is not available in our store, we don't sell it - sorry.

Reason: The needles you're looking for are already cheaply available somewhere else. We don't want to compete with existing cheap, good solutions, esp. not when the product is not part of our core business. Nearly everything we sell is either totally unique in the world, and/or produced by ourselves, or we offer the best deal for the product, or we sell a hard-to-get product or we otherwise add value.

Just to give you an idea of the cost involved of launching one's own product: We spent $ 31000,- on the single needles, so far. And we still haven't received the first major batch yet.

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the work great ...i just am not having much response to needling straight into the scars ...thanks

what are your recommendations for needles?

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Just ask such questions in our forum.. The only questions that are deleted are those that violate the forum rules..

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Dear Sarah, half year ago i've ordered from your site 2 rollers and single needles, first you told me you don't ship to Israel then you said you would ship but the shipping will be more expensive,after couple of days I received the package and was very satisfied.

I REALLY NEED to order from you again but I can't reach to your site for about 2 months and now I know why, I tried to reach you twise on email but you didn't answer me, I really need to order from you again,what should I do?

PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE ME IT IS VERY IMPROTANT TO ME!!

thanx

Anna

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You see? there are so many people want to buy from you and you just reject them for the so called

unreliable post services of their countries...I never had any issue with greek postal system even if i buy regularly from ebay and

amazon...

Please respect the principle of the freedom of goods transportation especially

when you take the EVOO from Crete for your C60 longevity formula.Its really

ironic not to ship to the country from where you take the ingredients of the products you ship :/


If you're bored of Suburbia, burn down your house,lets dance in the colour of the fire.


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@Panos: We don't "take" the oil - we pay 2 x the going market rate for it because we resent the way the local farmers are exploited by the oil traders. Prices are getting lower every year. Some small farmers are refusing to sell at those low prices and use the oil themselves instead. We actually pay much more, since the farmers refuse/cannot give us a tax invoice. We also did not manage to get a legal invoice from the dispatcher. So we can't deduct any of the expenses related to the oil purchase. But it is worth it nevertheless. Western-Cretan olive oil from the interior is perhaps the best extra virgin olive oil in the world.

And please stop sending me private messages with profanity:

panos-rude.png

(In the PM, Panos objects to me using his real name because he has "friends reading this forum" As if I don't have friends and (potential) customers reading this forum!). Since you used my real name/company name in an anonymous "hate" posting, I thought it was only fair to even the playing field. Alas, I have to be subjected to your continued anonymous attacks here.

@Anna: We have firewalled the entire Middle East, that means we do not receive emails originating from there either. I am sorry about that - I did not know that that would be a side effect. You should have received some kind of error message about that? As I said, there is nothing a business wants to do more than sell to whomever wants to buy, However, when those sales turn into a net loss, we, as a business, are forced to react. Lots of US-based companies only sell to the US. Lots of German companies only sell to Germany. We sell worldwide, but countries that gave us too much trouble, we eventually blocked. It is not just problems with the postal service. It also is hacking attempts, malicious competitors (plagiarism, DDOS attacks etc.), disproportionate burden to our service department (which is just me), etc. Based on years of experience with all that, we decided to block certain countries. The decision to "drop" a country is never taken lightly. We always "dropped" a country initially only for a few months until we gave in to appeals such as yours. When we again experienced disproportionate headaches of various kinds, we made the final call to "drop" a country permanently.

When we get bigger so that we can employ another support person, we may re-include certain countries again. Greece and Israel are prime candidates to be re-included in the list of countries we ship to.

Anna, please email [deleted afterwards by Sarah].

Tell me what products you need and I will see what I can do.

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hey i just wanted to say i ordered from her site 2 times and I was very happy with the products, shipping and everything. also i posted a few questions on the forum and it was answered in 2 days, although she missed 1 answer, but overall its good service. look how many questions are posted on her forums and she actually takes the time to answers all of them, you know how long that takes? and for wat? good customer service. i have yet to see dan answer 1 question, but im not knocking him i mean he is probably a very busy man.

but yea sarah good products and good customer service. cheers

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Sara Vaughter's protocols are somewhat needless ,since you can reverse scarring with

just oils(see edgar cayce and dr joh christopher massage approach for scarring).

Btw raw avocado is superior to any of her serum/cream.Plus it is bioavailable

and you dont self -poison with these toxic products.


If you're bored of Suburbia, burn down your house,lets dance in the colour of the fire.


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I just found this thread over google and since it is indeed the first search result I have to chime in to some of these accusations.

Panos (also known as "panoslydios" on some forums) has been banned from several forums I frequent, including one where I am the head moderator and banned him myself. The reasons for getting rid of him were numerous but mostly due to him having a paranoid distrust of everything that he himself doesn't seem to understand. Such as in this case a company not selling to a country where they can't ensure delivery and will have to make a loss on refunds and lost products. On our communities he was banned for open but mostly private hateful messages against the people he didn't agree with. And even after several warnings going as far as trying to spread lies and flat out accusations against people being "shills of company X or company Y" because the majority didn't believe in his esoteric naturopathy and sometimes even dangerous claims such as homeopathy being a valid treatment of cancer.

I did not buy c60 from Sarah but I have bought a range of dermarollers and chloramine-T. Both of which I received quickly and which until now have been excellent and inexpensive. I think the situation here is quite clear on which side is making up stuff.

Thank you for your attention and please consider how many thousands of satisfied customers Sarah has when you read one or two single cases like these.

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So this happens at other forums too? Lol.... now it makes sense.

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