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Vitamin B5 Hairloss- Cured (Pictures)

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#621 jimmyjoners

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:35 PM

Because my T levels are to high. Putting b5 aside, high T causes hairloss which is why when bodytbuilders run a cycle, many of them take s5 cream or propecia. Progesterone also suppressed T levels as you just posted.

 

It's much more complicated than that. In fact, the hormonal profile found in premature balding men, is actually LOW testosterone not high testosterone. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14758568

 

Also, I never said progesterone suppresses testosterone in men. It controls estrogen dominance though and will lower estrogen, thus improving T/E ratios (testosterone/estrogen ratio's). It will also reduce DHT levels.

 

Total testosterone may be low, but free testosterone isn't (which is all we really care about).

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3877475/ Also insulin resistance would play a role as well, more insulin would mean less binding of igf-1 and DHT down regulated igf-1 in the follicle to cause hair loss in the first place (gross simplification).

 

Also of course progesterone would suppress natural testosterone production, that coupled with estradiol are how you chemically castrate a male.

I tried topical nanosomal progesterone at some point because I'm on testosterone replacement anyway (either b5 or propecia resulted in my secondary hypogonadism, likely the latter), and it shut my libido down hard. I wouldn't mess around with progesterone personally. If you want actual anecdotal reports on what it does, check out transgendered forums and see why male to female users love it. Progesterone also down regulates some estrogen receptors in the body and upregulates others, and hair needs estrogen, so who knows which it does at the follicle level. Not to mention some females hair loss is triggered by progesterone. Is there even one study linking progesterone to hair loss directly?

 

Spiro is probably the safest anti-androgen to use IMO. RU is has more potential for systemic effects, same with duta, and finasteride. OC would be great it there was a known way to apply it that worked.

 

I'm also not sure what role MPB plays in B5 hairloss given it's diffuse pattern. Only thing that makes sense is the follicles local IGF-1 system is borked, reduces local aromatase (testing this theory now), or upregulation/sensitivity to DHT on all scalp follicles.


Edited by liquidfirex, 22 July 2014 - 02:38 PM.


#622 Blue09

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:46 PM

Some of the lads on a steroid forum that lost hair used a peptide called igf-1-lr3 and regrew all the hair that they lost, done a bit of research on the peptide and its 50/50 some regrew all there hair, others nothing and others actually started losing hair, anyway might be a last resort thing for me if the doctor comes up with nothing.

Edited by Blue09, 22 July 2014 - 02:47 PM.


#623 jimmyjoners

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:59 PM

Some of the lads on a steroid forum that lost hair used a peptide called igf-1-lr3 and regrew all the hair that they lost, done a bit of research on the peptide and its 50/50 some regrew all there hair, others nothing and others actually started losing hair, anyway might be a last resort thing for me if the doctor comes up with nothing.

 

Tried it 5-ish weeks and didn't notice anything personally, well aside from increased hunger.

Likely going to try scalp injections at some point. Also have some GHRP-2 and TB-500 I might give a go at some point.



#624 Blue09

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:01 PM

Some of the lads on a steroid forum that lost hair used a peptide called igf-1-lr3 and regrew all the hair that they lost, done a bit of research on the peptide and its 50/50 some regrew all there hair, others nothing and others actually started losing hair, anyway might be a last resort thing for me if the doctor comes up with nothing.

 
Tried it 5-ish weeks and didn't notice anything personally, well aside from increased hunger.
Likely going to try scalp injections at some point. Also have some GHRP-2 and TB-500 I might give a go at some point.


Ahhhh really damn there goes my last resort:-( I've been using ghrp-6 and mod-grf-129 but no luck with the hair:-( made some good gains tho.

#625 MikeLev

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

 

Because my T levels are to high. Putting b5 aside, high T causes hairloss which is why when bodytbuilders run a cycle, many of them take s5 cream or propecia. Progesterone also suppressed T levels as you just posted.

 

It's much more complicated than that. In fact, the hormonal profile found in premature balding men, is actually LOW testosterone not high testosterone. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14758568

 

Also, I never said progesterone suppresses testosterone in men. It controls estrogen dominance though and will lower estrogen, thus improving T/E ratios (testosterone/estrogen ratio's). It will also reduce DHT levels.

 

Total testosterone may be low, but free testosterone isn't (which is all we really care about).

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3877475/ Also insulin resistance would play a role as well, more insulin would mean less binding of igf-1 and DHT down regulated igf-1 in the follicle to cause hair loss in the first place (gross simplification).

 

Also of course progesterone would suppress natural testosterone production, that coupled with estradiol are how you chemically castrate a male.

I tried topical nanosomal progesterone at some point because I'm on testosterone replacement anyway (either b5 or propecia resulted in my secondary hypogonadism, likely the latter), and it shut my libido down hard. I wouldn't mess around with progesterone personally. If you want actual anecdotal reports on what it does, check out transgendered forums and see why male to female users love it. Progesterone also down regulates some estrogen receptors in the body and upregulates others, and hair needs estrogen, so who knows which it does at the follicle level. Not to mention some females hair loss is triggered by progesterone. Is there even one study linking progesterone to hair loss directly?

 

Spiro is probably the safest anti-androgen to use IMO. RU is has more potential for systemic effects, same with duta, and finasteride. OC would be great it there was a known way to apply it that worked.

 

I'm also not sure what role MPB plays in B5 hairloss given it's diffuse pattern. Only thing that makes sense is the follicles local IGF-1 system is borked, reduces local aromatase (testing this theory now), or upregulation/sensitivity to DHT on all scalp follicles.

 

No offense, but.. listening to what Dr. Ray Peat and Dr. Lee say about men using progesterone, vs someone on an acne forum... yeah.. think I'll listen to the Dr's. Also I'm feeling great and libido is great, erections, etc. 

 

You say transgender's love progesterone, yet say spiro is the safest, when spiro is THE drug that transgender's actually love. 

 

I've read a lot of things about progesterone and what you say does not make sense to me. We'll have to agree to disagree.



#626 jimmyjoners

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:07 PM

 

Some of the lads on a steroid forum that lost hair used a peptide called igf-1-lr3 and regrew all the hair that they lost, done a bit of research on the peptide and its 50/50 some regrew all there hair, others nothing and others actually started losing hair, anyway might be a last resort thing for me if the doctor comes up with nothing.

 
Tried it 5-ish weeks and didn't notice anything personally, well aside from increased hunger.
Likely going to try scalp injections at some point. Also have some GHRP-2 and TB-500 I might give a go at some point.


Ahhhh really damn there goes my last resort:-( I've been using ghrp-6 and mod-grf-129 but no luck with the hair:-( made some good gains tho.

 

I still think scalp injections are worth a shot, only issue is my current batch is mixed with acetic acid, and I'm not using that in my scalp!

 

http://www.google.co...s/US20120245088 scroll down to examples. 

 

Just not sure if igf-1 lr3 makes sense or if regular old igf-1 would be better.



#627 Blue09

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:09 PM


 


Some of the lads on a steroid forum that lost hair used a peptide called igf-1-lr3 and regrew all the hair that they lost, done a bit of research on the peptide and its 50/50 some regrew all there hair, others nothing and others actually started losing hair, anyway might be a last resort thing for me if the doctor comes up with nothing.

 
Tried it 5-ish weeks and didn't notice anything personally, well aside from increased hunger.
Likely going to try scalp injections at some point. Also have some GHRP-2 and TB-500 I might give a go at some point.

Ahhhh really damn there goes my last resort:-( I've been using ghrp-6 and mod-grf-129 but no luck with the hair:-( made some good gains tho.
 
I still think scalp injections are worth a shot, only issue is my current batch is mixed with acetic acid, and I'm not using that in my scalp!
 
http://www.google.co...s/US20120245088 scroll down to examples. 
 
Just not sure if igf-1 lr3 makes sense or if regular old igf-1 would be better.

Yeh I think I've read before someone doing scalp injections and working well, might defiantly be worth a shot tho

#628 jimmyjoners

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:17 PM

No offense, but.. listening to what Dr. Ray Peat and Dr. Lee say about men using progesterone, vs someone on an acne forum... yeah.. think I'll listen to the Dr's. Also I'm feeling great and libido is great, erections, etc. 

 

You say transgender's love progesterone, yet say spiro is the safest, when spiro is THE drug that transgender's actually love. 

 

I've read a lot of things about progesterone and what you say does not make sense to me. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

 

Not a single study eh?

People have tried it (myself included like I said before) and nothing came of it. Not to mention it has systemic action, and WILL suppress your LH and thus testosterone.

 

http://www.soulcyste...treme-hair-loss "Lots of hair loss since starting the cream last week. My scalp itches and hurts... " sounds like it's down-regulating estrogen to me.

 

Also transgender people take spiro ORALLY and not topically, unless it's to deal with hirsutism, which is great news because that's caused by excess androgen activity.



http://www.hairlosst...p/s5-cream.html

That's the one. Honestly with my T-levels I should be considering oral spiro.

 

I'd be surprised if they are still that high. The body has a bit of a lag when it comes to regulating sex hormones.



#629 MikeLev

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:21 PM

No offense, but.. listening to what Dr. Ray Peat and Dr. Lee say about men using progesterone, vs someone on an acne forum... yeah.. think I'll listen to the Dr's. Also I'm feeling great and libido is great, erections, etc. 

 

You say transgender's love progesterone, yet say spiro is the safest, when spiro is THE drug that transgender's actually love. 

 

I've read a lot of things about progesterone and what you say does not make sense to me. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

 

Not a single study eh?

People have tried it (myself included like I said before) and nothing came of it. Not to mention it has systemic action, and WILL suppress your LH and thus testosterone.

 

http://www.soulcyste...treme-hair-loss "Lots of hair loss since starting the cream last week. My scalp itches and hurts... " sounds like it's down-regulating estrogen to me.

 

Also transgender people take spiro ORALLY and not topically, unless it's to deal with hirsutism, which is great news because that's caused by excess androgen activity.

 

It has systemic action?? No shit, that's what you want with progesterone. The one from Ray Peat that is mixed with vit-e is the best as far as absorption rates go.

 

There are reports on the net of people taking everything and anything and it causing hair loss.

 

There's also reports of MEN taking progesterone and getting hair growth, the link you posted is a FEMALE who is also on a bunch of other stuff. 

 

Le'ts not take into account most females when they boost their progesterone have INCREASED hair growth for the most part, right?



#630 jimmyjoners

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:29 PM

It has systemic action?? No shit, that's what you want with progesterone. The one from Ray Peat that is mixed with vit-e is the best as far as absorption rates go.

 

There are reports on the net of people taking everything and anything and it causing hair loss.

 

There's also reports of MEN taking progesterone and getting hair growth, the link you posted is a FEMALE who is also on a bunch of other stuff. 

 

Le'ts not take into account most females when they boost their progesterone have INCREASED hair growth for the most part, right?

 

If you WANT systemic affects, and not local to the hair follicle then you aren't taking it for hair loss reason. As the only possible way it could help it topically to inhibit the local generation of DHT. This thread is all about hair loss, and not hard selling Ray Peat's progesterone creamUntil you can post some sort of study/science supporting progesterone helping hair loss, you are nothing more than a shill for a product that could have potentially long term negative effects on someone (secondary hypogonadism as a result of long term suppression of LH). I'm all for experimentation, but this has been tried and isn't worth the risk IMO. So if anyone else is looking at trying it, I strongly discourage you. Again : I've tried it, it didn't work.


Edited by jimmyjoners, 22 July 2014 - 03:32 PM.


#631 MikeLev

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:53 PM

It has systemic action?? No shit, that's what you want with progesterone. The one from Ray Peat that is mixed with vit-e is the best as far as absorption rates go.

 

There are reports on the net of people taking everything and anything and it causing hair loss.

 

There's also reports of MEN taking progesterone and getting hair growth, the link you posted is a FEMALE who is also on a bunch of other stuff. 

 

Le'ts not take into account most females when they boost their progesterone have INCREASED hair growth for the most part, right?

 

If you WANT systemic affects, and not local to the hair follicle then you aren't taking it for hair loss reason. As the only possible way it could help it topically to inhibit the local generation of DHT. This thread is all about hair loss, and not hard selling Ray Peat's progesterone creamUntil you can post some sort of study/science supporting progesterone helping hair loss, you are nothing more than a shill for a product that could have potentially long term negative effects on someone (secondary hypogonadism as a result of long term suppression of LH). I'm all for experimentation, but this has been tried and isn't worth the risk IMO. So if anyone else is looking at trying it, I strongly discourage you. Again : I've tried it, it didn't work.

 

Regarding your first sentence.. lolwut?? The majority of cases I've seen of people who have grown back hair with progesterone was completely by accident, they weren't putting it on their heads, they were just supplementing with it (systemically, IE upping their daily intake) and hair growth on their head was a nice bonus side effect. There's also this guy who says progesterone was the best thing he's ever used for growing hair at the temples: http://www.hairsite....nal-pj-448.html

 

I'm not trying to sell that specific cream you moron, I just don't want people to go buy an obsolete one, the vit-e content in it is very important.

 

You say I'm a shill, and then you say Spiro is the safest anti-androgen?! lol, there are countless reports of guys on forums who have used spiro and then weeks later post about how their libido is HORRIBLE, can't get erections, they feel depressed, no energy, chest pains, etc, and then it takes weeks for them to even feel normal again. Yet you say it's the safest?!

 

And you used to take propecia too??.. yikes, maybe that's why progesterone didn't work.. you brain is broken ;), scary stuff, that finasteride. In all seriousness though, nothing will work for everybody. "Oh.. I tried that.. didn't work for me, so it won't work for you" is a very narrow-minded outlook. There have been reports of it working, and working very well for some people. I wouldn't be worried about LH suppression. It's nothing a little clomid couldn't fix (if need be, although I doubt it would even be an issue). Hell if it can restart HPTA's after megadoses of roids, it can surely do the same for someone running moderate doses of Progesterone, not that I've ever even heard of such a thing (progesterone causing hypogonadism). 

 

But please, don't listen to me... that guy tried it, and it didn't work! so... do not try it. :)



#632 Blue09

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:45 AM

I deffo won't be trying this, he's the second person to say it causes problems

#633 MikeLev

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:19 AM

I deffo won't be trying this, he's the second person to say it causes problems

 

Don't take my advice or his advice, we're just dorks on some acne forum. Please, do your own research and come up with your own conclusion.

 

Ray Peat on progesterone (part 2) 

 

Progesterone is very, very safe and has a ton of health benefits for men. Do your own research. Wait for my before/after pictures. :)



#634 jimmyjoners

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 02:37 PM

egarding your first sentence.. lolwut?? The majority of cases I've seen of people who have grown back hair with progesterone was completely by accident, they weren't putting it on their heads, they were just supplementing with it (systemically, IE upping their daily intake) and hair growth on their head was a nice bonus side effect. There's also this guy who says progesterone was the best thing he's ever used for growing hair at the temples: http://www.hairsite....nal-pj-448.html

 

I'm not trying to sell that specific cream you moron, I just don't want people to go buy an obsolete one, the vit-e content in it is very important.

 

You say I'm a shill, and then you say Spiro is the safest anti-androgen?! lol, there are countless reports of guys on forums who have used spiro and then weeks later post about how their libido is HORRIBLE, can't get erections, they feel depressed, no energy, chest pains, etc, and then it takes weeks for them to even feel normal again. Yet you say it's the safest?!

 

And you used to take propecia too??.. yikes, maybe that's why progesterone didn't work.. you brain is broken wink.png, scary stuff, that finasteride. In all seriousness though, nothing will work for everybody. "Oh.. I tried that.. didn't work for me, so it won't work for you" is a very narrow-minded outlook. There have been reports of it working, and working very well for some people. I wouldn't be worried about LH suppression. It's nothing a little clomid couldn't fix (if need be, although I doubt it would even be an issue). Hell if it can restart HPTA's after megadoses of roids, it can surely do the same for someone running moderate doses of Progesterone, not that I've ever even heard of such a thing (progesterone causing hypogonadism). 

 

But please, don't listen to me... that guy tried it, and it didn't work! so... do not try it. smile.png

 

"I stopped taking progesterone due to some spider veins I developed. Its common side of progesterone. And yes it sucks.", via wikipedia "In men, they are related to high estrogen levels ". Not to mention the guy was on finsteride, and mixed Dut into the progesterone at the start. If the best hope you have is this guy...  

Why is vitamin E so important? Do you find some studies on that and form your own opinion?

 

Again you've conflated topical 5% spiro with oral spiro. Here, have some science: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3411088  "No changes in any levels of these hormones have been detected and plasma canrenone levels were undetectable during the 72 hours of topical treatment. Topically administered, spironolactone appears to have only a local skin impregnation.".

 

You are exactly what this thread does not need, someone with an opinion based on not much more than a feeling. 



#635 MikeLev

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:00 PM

Spiro gave me sides. Chest pains, irregular heart beat. I'm not the only one. There is also no one who claims to have had any major regrowth with spiro, or even any minor regrowth?. If a 72 hour study (lol) is enough to convince you it has no sides, and forgetting all the reports of people saying it killed their libido/energy levels, etc, go ahead.. and keep in mind, with spiro, really the best you can hope for is to maintain what you have pretty much.

 

The spider veins thing is odd, and not directly linked to progesterone in any type of literature anywhere that I know of. The formula's he was using had a bunch of other crap in it and may have been the estrogenic wild yam variant most likely.

 

"If progesterone is taken dissolved in vitamin E, it is absorbed very efficiently, and distributed quickly to all of the tissues. When dissolved in vitamin E, progesterone begins entering the blood stream almost as soon as it contacts any membrane, such as the lips, tongue, gums, or palate, but when it is swallowed, it continues to be absorbed as part of the digestive process. When taken with food, its absorption occurs at the same rate as the digestion and absorption of the food."
 
http://raypeat.com/a...vitamin-e.shtml More info on vitamin e and why it's so important.

Edited by MikeLev, 23 July 2014 - 03:00 PM.


#636 jimmyjoners

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:41 PM

Spiro gave me sides. Chest pains, irregular heart beat. I'm not the only one. There is also no one who claims to have had any major regrowth with spiro, or even any minor regrowth?. If a 72 hour study (lol) is enough to convince you it has no sides, and forgetting all the reports of people saying it killed their libido/energy levels, etc, go ahead.. and keep in mind, with spiro, really the best you can hope for is to maintain what you have pretty much.

 

The spider veins thing is odd, and not directly linked to progesterone in any type of literature anywhere that I know of. The formula's he was using had a bunch of other crap in it and may have been the estrogenic wild yam variant most likely.

 

"If progesterone is taken dissolved in vitamin E, it is absorbed very efficiently, and distributed quickly to all of the tissues. When dissolved in vitamin E, progesterone begins entering the blood stream almost as soon as it contacts any membrane, such as the lips, tongue, gums, or palate, but when it is swallowed, it continues to be absorbed as part of the digestive process. When taken with food, its absorption occurs at the same rate as the digestion and absorption of the food."
 
http://raypeat.com/a...vitamin-e.shtml More info on vitamin e and why it's so important.

 

 

Did you just negate a study, and then in the same post offer up an opinion as fact based on... nothing?

I don't have the time or energy to rebuild your belief system and invest in the scientific method, and since you don't already subscribe to it there is no point having any sort of logic discussion with you. Good luck with your progesterone, and watch out for symptoms of endocrine suppression (low libido doesn't happen for weeks or even months, take this from someone who is on testosterone replacement) and estrogen regulation problem like gynomastica and spider veins.



#637 MikeLev

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:01 PM

 

Spiro gave me sides. Chest pains, irregular heart beat. I'm not the only one. There is also no one who claims to have had any major regrowth with spiro, or even any minor regrowth?. If a 72 hour study (lol) is enough to convince you it has no sides, and forgetting all the reports of people saying it killed their libido/energy levels, etc, go ahead.. and keep in mind, with spiro, really the best you can hope for is to maintain what you have pretty much.

 

The spider veins thing is odd, and not directly linked to progesterone in any type of literature anywhere that I know of. The formula's he was using had a bunch of other crap in it and may have been the estrogenic wild yam variant most likely.

 

"If progesterone is taken dissolved in vitamin E, it is absorbed very efficiently, and distributed quickly to all of the tissues. When dissolved in vitamin E, progesterone begins entering the blood stream almost as soon as it contacts any membrane, such as the lips, tongue, gums, or palate, but when it is swallowed, it continues to be absorbed as part of the digestive process. When taken with food, its absorption occurs at the same rate as the digestion and absorption of the food."
 
http://raypeat.com/a...vitamin-e.shtml More info on vitamin e and why it's so important.

 

 

Did you just negate a study, and then in the same post offer up an opinion as fact based on... nothing?

I don't have the time or energy to rebuild your belief system and invest in the scientific method, and since you don't already subscribe to it there is no point having any sort of logic discussion with you. Good luck with your progesterone, and watch out for symptoms of endocrine suppression (low libido doesn't happen for weeks or even months, take this from someone who is on testosterone replacement) and estrogen regulation problem like gynomastica and spider veins.

 

lol@you seeing that report of a guy reporting spider veins, now you mention it as a possible side effect for me to watch out for. You're funny dude. :)

 

From the guys using it longterm on progesteronetherapy site, no claims of low libido or anything, it only helps... but guess we'll see. I think the prolactin inhibition effects of progesterone is making me hornier than ever right now.. I actually wish my libido would go down a bit, it's getting crazy.



#638 MikeLev

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 06:28 PM

Interesting study here guys, on men with premature balding.

 

http://www.ijtrichol...last=Narad#ft14

 

Basically, the one thing they all had in common... low SHBG!

 

Interesting. I know clomid increases SHBG, so perhaps I'll get back on that, low dose EOD.



#639 pjjordan

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:58 AM

Jimmyjoners, what are you trying next? Igf-1 lr3 or igf-1 scalp injections? I have never heard of these... 



#640 travelleruk

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:21 AM

I posted before about the hair transplant option but nobody gave any input.

 

It's really not very expensive nowadays so I'm wondering why nobody else considers this?

 

My hair is certainly going in classic MPB style, with it receded 1-2 inches. It's been going for around 4-5 years so I'm just glad it isn't too fast, though it might be because my hair used to very thick.






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