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When You Feel Like You've Tried Everything.

acne and dairy acne and nutrition supplements acne supplements acne and diet vitamin vitamins gluten candida probiotic

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#21 alternativista

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 08:44 AM

You could say that there's evidence that this lifestyle may help people, but the kinds of replacement faux foods that you are recommending is not the same type of vegan/vegetarian diet observed in your sources. And even if you do the same things, we don't know what level of adaptation those populations have.


Yes. Don't waste your money on the high priced processed faux foods. Eat real food. What clears skin is avoiding high glycemic impacting meals and drinks and consuming quality nutrient dense foods so your body gets the nutrients needed to function normally. Vegan ism or not has nothing to do with it.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


#22 scampb22

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:37 AM

Not to give you a hard time, but I think she meant the actual studies themselves, not websites talking about studies. And preferably studies done in humans in controlled conditions, not epidemiology type stuff. A lot of the China study's dairy conclusions came from studies where the rats were fed an abnormally high amount of dairy proteins too, if I'm not mistaken. I'd wager that they are even less adapted to eating dairy than we are.

I don't doubt that there are healthy populations that are vegan or vegetarian. But in much of the literature you reference, a lot more is going on than just their diet. It's a combination of factors; factors that we know play a role in health and disease. Things like sleep, stress, and exercise. Unless you have controlled conditions in a large study which results are demonstrated in a multitude of other studies (in humans of various populations [and other study conditions]), you cannot make these strong claims like "This is not good for most people. This is good for most people."

You could say that there's evidence that this lifestyle may help people, but the kinds of replacement faux foods that you are recommending is not the same type of vegan/vegetarian diet observed in your sources. And even if you do the same things, we don't know what level of adaptation those populations have.

What I'm getting at is that we have to be careful when we look at someone's diet and say "THIS is the problem." It very well could be, but it'd be better to say "according to this body (and I mean a good amount of research from various institutions) of research, it may be a good idea to try this." And if they try it and it doesn't work for them, we can't assume they are at fault.


Well first off, The China Study rats were only given a diet of 20% casein which is the protein in milk. Secondly, The China Study also has clinical research about the people in those counties, what they ate, and rate of disease over 50+ counties in China. You should really read the book before making claims about it.

I'm not going to argue anyone that hasn't read the books because the proof is in the research; I mean it's a forty year long study and every experiment he did was conclusive to the fact that animal products turned on disease and plant products turned them off.

About the faux vegan food, I myself, don't eat a lot of it. I put it in my blog so people don't feel deprived when changing their lifestyle. It's not easy to just give up all of your comfort foods cold turkey so I included them so people know there are in fact vegan options they can indulge in once in a while. It would be ignorant of anyone to assume that someone will never crave a slice of pizza again in their life or some mac&cheese; these things were hard for me so I included them to help people.

Again, I made this post to HELP people not to be attacked and I would honestly delete this post because of how much negativity is coming across. So please, if you don't agree with this, that's perfectly okay I could really care less. There's thousands of other posts and blogs on this site so you can go visit theirs if you'd like. But I've gotten an e-mail almost everyday of people thanking me for sharing this information which is why I will keep it up.

#23 AKL

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 04:38 PM

Obviously, you're trying to help people, thank you for that. People are only trying to point out that what works for one doesn't necessarily work for someone else and that a vegan or vegetarian lifestyle is not necessarily beneficial. As for the China Study: take the casein that Campbell used, for example. He concluded that animal protein is a tumor promoter. Why? We don't consume casein. We consume foods, and as you probably know, it's the dietary context that matters, not an isolated ingredient. Other proteins in milk (whey) have been shown in studies to suppress tumor growth. This is only one flaw in his study, there are so many that I wouldn't even call it a study. Just like you'd like people to read the China Study, others would like you to read it with a critical mindset, because even though it's an interesting read, it's by no means conclusive.

"When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy’. They told me I didn’t understand the assignment. I told them they didn’t understand life.” - John Lennon


#24 Michelle Reece

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 05:05 PM



After a year and a half of struggling with acne after living a life full of beautiful skin, I've decided to make this post in hopes of helping the people who feel hopeless and that they will never see clear skin in their life again. Here's my disclaimer- I am a nutrition major at UIC and work in the Whole Body/Supplement section of Whole Foods Market. I am not a doctor nor a licensed dietician as of yet so take this information as you please. If you follow my suggestions, I can guarantee clearer, beautiful skin! This may be long but it will be worth your while

First things first, if you don't believe acne and nutrition are connected, I am terribly sorry but you are WRONG. Bacteria and oil are NOT the enemies here, people! Food is. Your skin is an outer reflection of exactly what is going on inside your body. So the very first thing you need to do is reevaluate your diet and please remember to keep an open mind. Everything I am about to tell you has been proven in scientific journals from around the world, if you'd like to learn more I can leave a list of books, movies and online resources to check out.

Despite the controversy, dairy is in fact linked to acne. Dairy wreaks absolute havoc on your body and skin, especially with the standards of the United States' factory farms. It is pumped full of hormones which we know affect skin, anti-biotics and fed a diet of genetically modified corn, ground up cows, pigs, cats, dogs, and whatever else the 'farmer' can get his hands on for cheap. And ever since the drought, 'farmers' have even resorted to feeding their animals with sprinkles, gummy worms, oreos, you name it.

When dairy enters the body, it causes an extremely acidic environment, so your body's defense automatically needs to neutralize and alkalinize it and does so by pulling key nutrients from other parts of the body like your bones and skin. Not only does dairy rob your body and skin of nutrients, it also is left to putrefy in your intestines for 24-48 hours(which is how long it takes the average human to fully digest food). Now take a minute to imagine what would happen to milk/cheese/ice cream if it was left in an environment that's 98 degrees for a day or two. It actually causes little pustules on the intestines much like say, a pimple! Gross, right? Toxins expelled from your intestines need to find their way out of the body, a quick and easy way is through the skin and BAM, acne.

Also, most people after the age of three stop producing, lactase, the enzyme that breaks down lactose/milk protein. This is because humans were genetically not supposed to consume our mother's milk after the age of three and certainly not supposed to drink the milk of another animal. If you are one of the following nationalities, you are at an extremely high risk of lactose intolerance or not producing lactase:
Asian descent- 90-100% lactose intolerant*
Native Americans- 95%*
African descent- 65-70%*
Italian descent- 65-70%*
Hispanic descent- 50-60%*
(*Reference: The Food Revolution page 99)

If you gather nothing else from this post, please let this be the one! Your body and skin will thank you.

I'm not going to go as in depth with this topic because there is not enough research done on it but almost everything I said about dairy, also goes for meat. It's acidic, it putrefies in the intestines, and the anatomy of human doesn't agree with meat. Carnivore's(meat eaters) take only about 2 hours to fully digest their food, as I mentioned earlier humans take 1-2 days; we are meant to be omnivores.

If you are an animal eater, you're probably extremely overwhelmed right now but please don't be! There is a vegan alternative to every single thing you can imagine. If someone told me a year ago I would be a vegan today I would have laughed in their face. I never thought I could do it. But it's SO much easier than you think. Some yummy alternatives I have found to my favorite comfort foods can be found at health food stores like Whole Foods, Wild Oats, Fruitful Yield, etc. Here's a few of my favorites:

Cow's milk- almond milk, soy milk, coconut milk
Cheese- Daiya cheese (comes in cheddar, mozzarella and pepper jack
Mac&Cheese- Amy's rice pasta and vegan cheese(made with daiya cheese) OR Vegan Cafe's creamy macaroni & cheese
Pizza- Amy's vegan margarita pizza (you also can make your own with the daiya cheese OR at Whole Foods you can order a vegan pizza fresh made by the prepared foods department, it's delish)
Milk chocolate- Carob, dark chocolate
Chocolate snacks- Hail Merry Chocolate Macaroons- THESE ARE TO DIE FOR! I eat them instead of cookies/chocolate bars/etc.
Meat- There are plenty alternatives you can buy frozen
I also have amazing recipes for vegan chili and vegan black bean burgers that won't make you miss meat.

Aside from animal products, the next trigger for acne is sugar. Yes all types, brown sugar, white sugar, refined sugar you name it. It causes spike in blood sugar and is also very acidic in the body. Most people have heard of and are familiar with the link between sugar and acne so I won't dive into this topic either.

I believe this next trigger comes close to animal products, and that is processed food. Now, I'm not going to be unrealistic and say cut it out completely, but look at the ingredients. Make sure you know what every ingredient is on that label and the fewer the better. Although it may be a few bucks more expensive, chose USDA organic products when possible; they are much more nutrient dense and have far less toxins. Toxins=acne. Shifting toward a clean diet is key.

So now that you've taken away part of your diet, what will go in place? The most nutrient dense, detoxifying, brightening, strengthening foods out there. Crowd out the bad stuff with good stuff. My recommendation is to start off every morning with a smoothie. I believe this is sosososo important! You can get a blender for about $40 at a department store and it will be a great investment in your health. Smoothies should always contain fruits AND veggies! Greens in particular, they are cleansing and detoxifying. You can chose either frozen or fresh fruit, whatever you prefer and through it in your blender. This is usually what I do:

Strawberries, blueberries, mangoes/pineapple with some carrot juice. Then I blend in a stalk or two of kale(remove the middle stem and just use the thin leafy parts) and a few handfuls of spinach. The magic ingredient I end with is a scoop or so of Vibrant Health's Green Vibrance. They also sell this at health food stores or you could always find it online. This stuff is absolutely amazing and essential if you don't get enough greens/vegetables in your diet. It contains just about every green vegetable and seaweed you could think up, PLUS special detoxifying herbs PLUS 25 billion probiotics and at least 95% of your daily value of all the fat soluble vitamins(A,D,E,&K)! If you're not a fan of the consistency/taste of this product you could also try Sunfood's Sun Is Shining which is very similar to Green Vibrance. Feel free to do research on these products, there's lots of good feedback on the net. You will see a difference in your skin just a few days into using it.

If like myself, you have been eating animal products and junk your whole life, your body is probably extremely toxic. I recommend doing a full body cleanse to kick start results. I'm not saying go on a crazy water or juice fast- just adopt your new lifestyle and give your body that extra push it needs. There are cleanses you can get at health food stores. I have tried a few and my favorite has to be Garden of Life's RAW Cleanse- I noticed a different in my complexion just a few days into it. It's raw, it's vegan, it's only seven days, it's amazing. What most people don't understand about cleanses though is that once you cleanse your body, those toxins end up getting filtered through your liver and kidneys which if your body is very toxic, can be a heavy load on your liver. I recommend doing a liver cleanse right after a cleanse or during a cleanse. Good supplements for this are: Himalaya's LiverCare and Soloray's Liver Blend. You can take them at the same time; they just utilize certain herbs that assist the liver in detoxification.

These will rid the body of many toxins but not from everything. Chances are, if you have ever eaten meat in your life, you have worms. 85-90% of American's have worms in their intestines. Worms, along with candida/yeast overgrowth can be major causes of acne. It's really gross but the good news is, you can get rid of them all with one herb. I refer to this herb as magical because of how well it works. Oil of Oregano is the most anti-microbial, anti-bacterial herb known to man. In placebo studies it actually worked better than penicillin and amoxicillin in killing bacteria. Want to know the best thing about it? It doesn't touch your good bacteria, it only kills the bad bacteria unlike anti-biotics which kill ALL bacteria, even your good flora. Oil of Oregano has more benefits than I could count on all my fingers and toes, I'd encourage you to do more research on the benefits of the herb. I'd recommend doing the Oil of Oregano for a month straight, twice a day. I prefer the tincture but it also comes in capsules. I've found Gaia's Oil of Oregano to be one of the cheapest, but most effective. If you have worms or candida/yeast overgrowth, a month should be plenty of time to get your gut in balance. You should absolutely notice a difference in your skin within a few days with this one; it is extremely powerful stuff.

Most people are uneducated about probiotics but they are absolutely vital to curing acne. You want more good bacteria than bad in your gut because bad bacteria is what causes acne. You have countless strains of bacteria and about 400 trillion organisms in your gut so when picking out a probiotic supplement, look for AT LEAST 20 billion organisms and as many strains as you can find, the more, the better. Also, many probiotics are grown in dairy! Make sure you look on the bottle that it says free of dairy- dairy probiotics will do the same thing dairy itself does in the gut. One I've found that works well is MegaFood's MegaFlora. It has 20 billion organisms and 14 strains per capsule. It's dairy and allergen free.

I'm very confident lifestyle changes are enough to cure the skin but for some that have severe acne and/or have been on antibiotics need a little extra attention. If you've taken Accutane or routine anti-biotics, you've done some damage to your intestines. But the good news about the body is that amazing ability it has to repair itself. I would encourage you to do all of the above but you should absolutely focus on probiotics. You should be taking double to quadruple the amount I advised above because your gut is so depleted of good bacteria at this point. I would also add in some reparative herbs. The most important and potent of those being Curcumin which is the extracted active ingredient of the herb, Turmeric. It can actually repair the tissues of your organs inside and out; from your gut to your skin. I would recommend 500 mg twice per day for the first month or so and then cut back to one for maintenance. Other reparative herbs include Neem and Amla. There is a product by Organic India called Skin Renew that includes both of these herbs plus turmeric. I would still advise taking the extra curcumin though.

Lastly, but certainly not least I want to talk about mental stability. Most people wouldn't think your skin and your mental state relate at all but they surprisingly do. Have you ever heard anyone tell you if you imagine/visualize/tell yourself something, your mind can make it happen? Same goes here; if you obsessively look in the mirror, think about your acne, tell yourself how bad it is, etc, your mind will actually make what your subconscious is telling you the truth. So if you obsess and think about your skin most of your days, your mind will make it a reality. You have to let go of what you think you know and talking down about yourself and just love yourself! Everyday for the next month take at least a few minutes out of everyday to tell yourself the following:

I can cure my acne.
I have total control over my skin.
The healthier I get, the healthier my skin gets.
Clear skin is no accident.
Curing acne is simple and easy.
I will have clear, beautiful skin.

Just say it over and over again. It's best to do it when you are in a relaxed state or meditating(hate that word, but basically just focus on your breathing, relax and repeat the phrases in bold) This will literally make your subconscious believe exactly what you're telling it. This is exactly like hypnosis; if you can't relax on your own, look up self hypnosis online. There are great resources to learning how to get in the right frame of mind for this to actually work. I never knew mental health and skin had any correlation but it makes total sense. To be totally healthy, you need to be healthy body, mind and soul. You will find happiness when all of these are are in balance.

My goal is to help people. I'm well versed in nutrition, natural medicine and supplements. If I have left questions unanswered or have left you confused please do not hesitate to email me or leave a comment here. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions/concerns. For those who have read this entire thing, I hope I have helped in your journey to having beautiful skin and that you take my suggestions and at least give them a try for a month. You have nothing to lose, only clear skin to gain.

-Sarah
scampb22@uic.edu


I have several questions about this post:

1. If the skin is indeed a reflection of what's exactly going on inside, wouldn't we expect those with diseases like moyamoya disease, juvenile idiopathic osteoarthritis, carpal tunnel syndrome, Lou Gehrig's disease or paranoid schizophrenia to have "bad skin?" Are you implying it's impossible for people afflicted with these diseases and various others to have beautiful skin?

2. If everything you said has been proven in scientific journals around the world, why haven't you linked any studies in your post? You could've just put the links at the bottom.

3. Do you know of any double blind, randomized and placebo-controlled studies that milk/dairy does in fact cause acne? Do you have any evidence that the IGF-1 will not be broken down into di- and tri-peptides before it gets absorbed? Do you have any proof the other hormones in milk can be absorbed?

4. Do you have any proof that the body's pH will be effected significantly by foods without us dying?

5. What toxins? What kind? Necrotoxins? Apitoxin? Do you have any proof that those with acne have toxins in their bloodstream?

6. So you mean every type of sugar, including pectin, chitin, cellulose?

7. If humans aren't supposed to drink milk/the nutrition for young offspring from another animal, what about honey?

8. Where are you getting that statistic of 85-90% of Americans have worms in their intestines or that candida overgrowth causes acne?

9. Where is your proof Oil of Oregeno works and that it does in fact kill P.acnes bacteria better without it developing resistance?

10. Where is your proof that the bacteria in probiotics will colonize the intestines without getting expelled?

11. What kind of damage does Accutane or oral antibiotics do to the system? How do you know curcumin is bioavaliable or just won't be expelled from the bloodstream?

12. Why are you advising acne suffers they can cure their acne when there is no cure to begin with?

13. Why do you think skin is an excretion system? Can you explain to me how the stratum corneum is organized to excrete waste?


1. First off, you need to realize there are some people out there that just have beautiful flawless skin despite what they do to their bodies. I have several friends that eat like absolute crap, have only a handful of bowel movements a week and still have amazing flawless skin just like their parents, grandparents, etc. As far as the skin is an inner reflection of the body, I should have been more specific- it's a reflection of your digestive organs. Please refer to http://www.naturalne...kin_health.html

2. If you look at my blog on my page, I do have several links, books and movies you can check out to find the scientific studies. I wrote those in in an edit after I made the post and I can't edit them into here but i'll list them out for you.
The China Study by T. Collin Campbell, PhD which is a forty year long study and is known as the most comprehensive study of nutrition ever conducted.
The Food Revolution by John Robbins
Diet for a New America by John Robbins
Eat to Live by Joel Furhman, MD

Here's some books that look at the relationship between food and beauty- both go into detail about dairy consumption and skin.
Eating for Beauty by David Wolfe
The Beauty Detox Solution by Kimberly Snyder, CN

3. There are not many studies done on the relationship between dairy and acne but there are a few, one namely done at Harvard School of Public Health. Refer to this site: http://www.diseasepr...s/cat-acne.html

4. Not sure what you mean by this question but when animal products/acid forming foods enter the body they cause an acidic environment and the body's natural defenses nuetralize the environment by pulling alkalinizing minerals/materials from inside the body. So, no you won't die if you eat a lot of acid forming foods, your body's minerals/alkalinizing material will just be depleted each time. Refer to: The China Study by T. Collin Campbell or Forks Over Knives(movie).

5. Again, you need to take into account that some people naturally have flawless skin- those who are not as lucky need to be more careful about how they treat their body. By toxins I mean the toxins that we can control our intake of- not the toxins in the air but the ones in our food; food additives, food preservatives, the chemical change that occurs in the oil when foods are fried, pesticides, herbicides, charred/smoked meats and fish, etc.

6. When I talk about every type of sugar, I mean refined sugar- those that are not naturally occuring in foods.

7. There is quite a bit of controversy on the topic of if honey is suitable for human consumption. I didn't mention anything about honey so not sure why you're bringing it up... It's not a staple in most people's diets anyway.

8. The statistic I got on worms came from a book I referred to above, The Food Revolution by John Robbins. Refer to this site which shows acne as a symptom of yeast overgrowth. http://www.holistich...et/candida.html

9. There are not studies done on Oil of Oregano and acne directly but refer to this site for studies done on Oil of Oregano vs. different mainstream anti-biotics commonly prescribed. I never claimed it killed that exact strain of bacteria- it's just a natural alternative to anti-biotics that doesn't kill the good bacteria. http://www.lewrockwe...rig/sardi6.html Here's an article on Oil of Oregano and acne- not a scientific study. http://oiloforeganos...o-oil-for-acne/ I'd still recommend doing your own research.

10. I never claimed probiotics don't expell through the skin- I'm sure they do but they don't cause acne. I use a probiotic soap bar to wash my face everyday and it helps keep me clear actually...

11. Anti-biotics kill all the flora in your gut including the good. This can damage your organs because you need good bacteria in your body. Refer to: http://www.livestron...antibiotic-use/ but would also recommend doing research of your own. I would also recommend doing research on the amazing healing abilities of Curcumin.

12. I don't believe I used the word cure or even referred to my suggestions as 'the cure'...

13. Refer to: http://www.naturalne...xification.html and http://healthmad.com...detoxification/ but again, would consider doing research of your own. It's not the main source our body uses to detox but certainly a source.

I really don't need another rebuttle honestly I spent way too much time just writing this reply, especially because you are just questioning me to see if I have an answer not because you really want to learn or use this stuff. I created this post to help people and share the knowledge I have gained in the past year of being a nutrition major and working at Whole Foods Market. If you don't agree with it that is perfectly okay, I could really care less. So now that you have all the information and resources, I hope I've answered your questions up to par but would seriously recommend doing some research of your own via non-fiction nutrition books. The ones I have listed are great resources so please read those before asking more questions, thanks.


When someone is claiming something as fact on the Internet, (i.e., "Dairy is in fact [emphasis added] linked to acne") I want to see (accessible) unbiased evidence. In your original post, you have not written "Thing ABC may cause XYZ" or "It's not known for sure if ABC causes XYZ" and have implied it was irrefutable.

Here's what I'd still like to know and I don't care who answers:

1. So what percentage of people with "gut problems" have skin problems and for what diseases? Is age, gender or ethnicity are factors?

2. How do you/anyone knows any of those books are credible? Have you/they looked at the quality of studies?

3. Why you/other people think an interview is evidence?

4. I have asked why because patients with kidney disease on dialysis have are carefully observed for any slight change in blood pH because it can kill them and if the alkaline diet significantly affected the blood/bodily pH, it would go against everything we know about human physiology. But are there any unbiased, high quality peer-reviewed scientific research that is indexed on PubMed this does occur anyway (maybe to a lesser extent?)

5. What food additives/preservatives specifically and in what 'dosage'? What 'chemical changes'?

6. So is it the 'process' that makes it 'bad'? How?

7. I brought up honey because we're essentially eating the nutrition from young bees; it's like "milk" to them. How exactly is honey not suitable for human consumption? Can humans inherently not break down the proteins and enzymes in honey? If so, which ones would that be?

8. Is that statistic indexed PubMed or in a credible journal? If so, where is it?

9. Can P. acnes become resistant to Oil of Oregano over time? If so, how long does it take?

10. Can anybody link me large, randomized double blind placebo-controlled studies that probiotics improve acne?

11. How can curcumin specifically help acne? Can anyone link me direct curcumin-acne research? To what extent can "gut damage" worsen acne?

12. Why are people advising others to tell themselves "I can cure my acne" when there is no cure for acne?

13. Can anyone link me credible, unbiased research that the stratum corneum is organized to excrete waste?

Edited by Michelle Reece, 10 December 2012 - 12:53 AM.


#25 tim12

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 07:44 PM

Well first off, The China Study rats were only given a diet of 20% casein which is the protein in milk. Secondly, The China Study also has clinical research about the people in those counties, what they ate, and rate of disease over 50+ counties in China. You should really read the book before making claims about it.

I'm not going to argue anyone that hasn't read the books because the proof is in the research; I mean it's a forty year long study and every experiment he did was conclusive to the fact that animal products turned on disease and plant products turned them off.

About the faux vegan food, I myself, don't eat a lot of it. I put it in my blog so people don't feel deprived when changing their lifestyle. It's not easy to just give up all of your comfort foods cold turkey so I included them so people know there are in fact vegan options they can indulge in once in a while. It would be ignorant of anyone to assume that someone will never crave a slice of pizza again in their life or some mac&cheese; these things were hard for me so I included them to help people.

Again, I made this post to HELP people not to be attacked and I would honestly delete this post because of how much negativity is coming across. So please, if you don't agree with this, that's perfectly okay I could really care less. There's thousands of other posts and blogs on this site so you can go visit theirs if you'd like. But I've gotten an e-mail almost everyday of people thanking me for sharing this information which is why I will keep it up.


There is a lot of assumption going on in this thread. I have skimmed the China study at a library, as well as reviews. I've also seen all of the documentaries you've mentioned, and looked at the research from people in that sort of camp. You shouldn't assume what I do or do not know.

A problem with studies in humans is that you can't really control for one variable, there is always other stuff going on. Still, epidemiology is even further than controlled studies. Then there are populations that seem to contrast what Campbell and friends are selling, which is a bit of an explanation to sit down and type, and I'm sure most of the people here are familiar with these sorts of criticisms (for example, what AKL posted). One such example of a contradictory study to what the China Study found was that recent meta-analysis which more or less determined that saturated fats were not correlated with a variety of diseases that they usually are.

http://ajcn.nutritio....27725.abstract

Some say that the funders of the study create a conflict of interest, and this is potentially true. By that logic, I'd say vegan researchers researching veganism may also have a bias.

Indeed, it is okay to disagree. No one here is attacking you; rather, we are trying to be critical about the sort of information and advice that is posted here. Acne is something that people are very emotional about. There have been many posters here who have decided to follow a variety of diets, this kind included, who did not achieve the results they were promised. I understand that people say that this method works for them amount, but there are also people who it has not worked for. The same goes for a variety of diets.

Edited by tim12, 09 December 2012 - 08:20 PM.


#26 scampb22

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:48 AM


Well first off, The China Study rats were only given a diet of 20% casein which is the protein in milk. Secondly, The China Study also has clinical research about the people in those counties, what they ate, and rate of disease over 50+ counties in China. You should really read the book before making claims about it.

I'm not going to argue anyone that hasn't read the books because the proof is in the research; I mean it's a forty year long study and every experiment he did was conclusive to the fact that animal products turned on disease and plant products turned them off.

About the faux vegan food, I myself, don't eat a lot of it. I put it in my blog so people don't feel deprived when changing their lifestyle. It's not easy to just give up all of your comfort foods cold turkey so I included them so people know there are in fact vegan options they can indulge in once in a while. It would be ignorant of anyone to assume that someone will never crave a slice of pizza again in their life or some mac&cheese; these things were hard for me so I included them to help people.

Again, I made this post to HELP people not to be attacked and I would honestly delete this post because of how much negativity is coming across. So please, if you don't agree with this, that's perfectly okay I could really care less. There's thousands of other posts and blogs on this site so you can go visit theirs if you'd like. But I've gotten an e-mail almost everyday of people thanking me for sharing this information which is why I will keep it up.


There is a lot of assumption going on in this thread. I have skimmed the China study at a library, as well as reviews. I've also seen all of the documentaries you've mentioned, and looked at the research from people in that sort of camp. You shouldn't assume what I do or do not know.

A problem with studies in humans is that you can't really control for one variable, there is always other stuff going on. Still, epidemiology is even further than controlled studies. Then there are populations that seem to contrast what Campbell and friends are selling, which is a bit of an explanation to sit down and type, and I'm sure most of the people here are familiar with these sorts of criticisms (for example, what AKL posted). One such example of a contradictory study to what the China Study found was that recent meta-analysis which more or less determined that saturated fats were not correlated with a variety of diseases that they usually are.

http://ajcn.nutritio....27725.abstract

Some say that the funders of the study create a conflict of interest, and this is potentially true. By that logic, I'd say vegan researchers researching veganism may also have a bias.

Indeed, it is okay to disagree. No one here is attacking you; rather, we are trying to be critical about the sort of information and advice that is posted here. Acne is something that people are very emotional about. There have been many posters here who have decided to follow a variety of diets, this kind included, who did not achieve the results they were promised. I understand that people say that this method works for them amount, but there are also people who it has not worked for. The same goes for a variety of diets.


I assumed you didn't read the book because you said the rats were given extremely high levels of casein when they were only given 20% of their diet in casein; every single chapter has that 20% figure in it repeatedly so it was a pretty fair assumption. If you read the first part of The China Study, you'd know Dr. Campbell grew up on a dairy farm eating animal products 3+ times per day and drinking 3 glasses of whole milk from his farm daily. The study started out as something to show the benefits of eating animal protein because this is what Campbell had believed his entire life. After he started getting the results of disease being turned off by plant protein and turned on by animal protein, he then became a vegan. So your claim about the funders having a conflict of interest is false. He went into the study wanting to prove the benefits of animal protein so I doubt any of his funders were vegetarian or vegan. In fact, before the study started he was known as one of the best and most honorable figures to come out of Cornell University by his peers; after publishing the book, many people who once used to praised him refuse to even talk to him. If anything, going into the study he was biased against plant protein as were his funders.

#27 tim12

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:25 AM

Rats don't usually eat dairy or isolated proteins in their natural environment, so 20% is extremely high. Also, dairy protein /=/ all animal proteins. Seeing as you're ignoring other points made by myself and other individuals, and this conversation has been had before in one way or another, I consider my concerns to vulnerable readers voiced. I'd like to see you respond to Michelle's posts though .

Edited by tim12, 10 December 2012 - 09:26 AM.


#28 scampb22

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:44 AM

Rats don't usually eat dairy or isolated proteins in their natural environment, so 20% is extremely high. Also, dairy protein /=/ all animal proteins. Seeing as you're ignoring other points made by myself and other individuals, and this conversation has been had before in one way or another, I consider my concerns to vulnerable readers voiced. I'd like to see you respond to Michelle's posts though .


Rats are used in 90% of medical research... so are you saying 90% of the medical research studies done don't count either? Refer to: http://www.chrcrm.or...s-and-research. (I know this is a Canadian site but I wanted a .org or .net resource because of credibility) I'm not going to respond to Michelle's post because she hasn't read any of the books I referred her to and I'm not going to waste my time teaching somebody about topics they could learn themselves. The reason there are not 'credible' sources about nutrition as treatment for ANYTHING because first off, almost all medical research done is in someway funded by the government; the government(FDA, USDA) has financial ties with some major food companies, i.e. The American Cattle Association, Dairy Council, etc. and every major piece of literature/news goes through the government before being released to the public. For something to be named a treatment for a disease, it must pass a placebo test or some kind of controlled study; the government does not allow a lifestyle change to suffice as a treatment so there is no 'credible' source you will ever find out there if you go by those standards because the government won't allow it. So no, I cannot produce a placebo study between diet and acne because it simply cannot exist; no one can produce it. That is why you're both saying the clinical part of The China Study isn't a controlled study; no, it's absolutely not because that type of study cannot exist which is why he implemented the rat study as well. The clinical part of The China study just observes the native people in over 50+ counties on what they eat, their blood work and rate of disease. So the studies that you want to see are nonexistent because of the government's laws against them.

This will be my last post in response to these questions; all I can go off of is the literature I have read and the people, including myself, who have adopted a whole foods, plant based lifestyle. Animals used to be a staple in my diet before this year; I ate meat 3x/day and dairy at least 2x/day. But I've lost twenty pounds and finally have the body I've only dreamed of, my skin has cleared and has a radiant glow, my hair is thicker and shinier, I have relieved myself of my depression and anxiety, I have more energy than I did as a child, and most importantly I am happy and I love myself. I've seen this transformation in less than a year as well as my older sister who suffered a lot of the same problems. My step-dad has reversed his arthritis, my close friend went into remission after a decade of suffering from lupus, and my boyfriend lost 10 pounds and resolved digestive issues. This lifestyle has touched my life in so many ways as well as being able to see it touch others at a naturopathic clinic a former coworker now works at where this lifestyle is implemented. So if you think it quackery, or magic or just flat out wrong, you are completely entitled to that opinion and I'm entitled to mine. Hopefully we can all learn something from each other and walk away not as biased as we were walking into it.

"Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." -Hippocrates

#29 tim12

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:21 AM

I'm saying that it isn't guaranteed that results in rats translate into human results, to keep my reply short. Clearly dairy can be problematic for people, but there are also acne prone people here who tolerate dairy fine.

That being said, I don't doubt that veganism is a legitimate method. I'm just saying other methods seem to work for people too. And sometimes these successful methods for one person are not successful for the other. This is more or less anecdotal conjecture, however; so the main takeaway I have for any readers is to be skeptical and experiment.

Edited by tim12, 10 December 2012 - 11:26 AM.


#30 alternativista

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:42 PM

I adopted a whole foods, mostly plant-based diet and it cleared me very quickly, so it works too. So do many other nutrient dense low to moderate glycemic load diets that are also not vegan. And many societies with high numbers of healthy active centenarians around the world are also not vegan.

Also, most of vegan faux foods as you recommended are not 'whole' foods. They are processed foods. And the China Study is one of the most widely critiqued and disputed studies that I have ever heard of.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


#31 scampb22

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 07:08 PM

I adopted a whole foods, mostly plant-based diet and it cleared me very quickly, so it works too. So do many other nutrient dense low to moderate glycemic load diets that are also not vegan. And many societies with high numbers of healthy active centenarians around the world are also not vegan.

Also, most of vegan faux foods as you recommended are not 'whole' foods. They are processed foods. And the China Study is one of the most widely critiqued and disputed studies that I have ever heard of.


There must be misunderstanding in why I put the faux vegan foods in my post; I explained this to another commenter but the reason I included them is because there are those days I do crave some comfort food like mac&cheese and pizza. For people that are used to eating a mostly processed food diet, which most Americans are, it could be difficult to completely adopt a whole foods, plant-based diet. I included these as resources for people when they have that craving once in a while because it's never good to deprive yourself; it can do more damage than good. At least these options are non-gmo and dairy free and some are even organic. They are also great in the transition stage of changing one's diet.

I also never said a vegan diet is only thing that will clear your skin, I'm just simply sharing what has worked for me. I'm sure there are other societies with healthy people around the world who aren't vegan, I never said there wasn't. Most other countries do not eat animal products like American's do; in Asia, they use about an 8 oz piece of meat to feed the entire family and use it mostly for flavor, not for protein(Resource: Forks Over Knives). But the issue about living in the states is how difficult it is to find clean animal products; dairy is now treated with 5x as many chemicals as conventional produce(Resource: Eating for Beauty, David Wolfe) and if I remember from my nutrition lecture correctly, 80% of meat in America is contaminated with one or more food borne illness causing bacteria; even if it's organic. Organic meats are usually less likely to be contaminated(only about 25%) but still, if you eat meat 4 times per week, that means chances are one of those times you were consuming bacteria ridden meat.

I know full and well the back lash The China Study has gotten in the states because eating animals is just our way of life here. It's what were used to and it's what we like. But there are actually several hospitals in Japan now implementing a low-fat vegan, whole foods diet as the main treatment for diseases like cancer and heart disease and the people are actually extremely responsive to this information(Resource: Dying to Have Known). So of course there is going to be loads of critiques on The China Study, but there are just as many glowing reviews like the one posted in the New York Times. Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn was a heart surgeon at The Cleveland Clinic and did a five year long study on the effects of a whole foods, plant-based diet in relation to heart disease; he actually started his study strictly vegetarian but implemented low-fat dairy. After he read Dr. Campbell's study, he took out the dairy and continued to see amazing results. It really is an amazing read, even though it's packed full of lots of information, I read it cover to cover. If you hadn't had the chance to read it yet, I'd highly recommend it.

#32 onefatalgoose

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:35 PM

The reason there are not 'credible' sources about nutrition as treatment for ANYTHING because first off, almost all medical research done is in someway funded by the government; the government(FDA, USDA) has financial ties with some major food companies, i.e. The American Cattle Association, Dairy Council, etc. and every major piece of literature/news goes through the government before being released to the public. For something to be named a treatment for a disease, it must pass a placebo test or some kind of controlled study; the government does not allow a lifestyle change to suffice as a treatment so there is no 'credible' source you will ever find out there if you go by those standards because the government won't allow it.


Side note:
I don't think most people are aware that the term 'quack' and 'quack theory' were actually created by Big Pharma. And Big Pharma is in fact an actual thing, or monopoly if you will. They created this terminology to sway public opinion into believing that anything not practiced by the AMA is ridiculous. The website 'quack watch' was created by Big Pharma. And the writer for quack watch Stephen Barrett has to be one of the most corrupt humans on this earth. He's in bed with Big Pharma and they keep him well funded to smear any and all nutritional therapies that might take away business from the pharmaceutical industry.

Also nothing from nature (unless it's GMO'd as we're finding out now) can be patented. It costs millions to test a product for efficacy and safety, which they won't do. And since the FDA says it's illegal to practice with any substance not tested, you can see why nutritional therapies will never be supported by modern medicine, regardless of how effective the natural treatment is. Or at least not by Big Pharma, which is heavily funding modern medicine and the doctors practicing the standard AMA practices.

We live in a very corrupt world, and the truth is, you are the only one looking out for you. Drugs treat symptoms, and come with even more harmful side effects than than they do potential benefits. Nature can and does address the underlying metabolic process behind these diseases and chronic illness, but it isn't near the money maker, and it's also competition for the drug companies. In a world where money is so idolized by corrupt men, profits come before the desire to do good, and unfortunately, providing any and all known methods of healing regardless of money to be made...just isn't happening

                                                      80%-20% Alkaline forming vs Acid forming Diet

                                                                                `Organic~
                                                                            I don't consume:
                                                                                     *Dairy
                                                                               *Whole grains
                                                                             *Refined sugars
                                                                                 *Table salt
                                                                              *Vegetable oils
                                                                        *Processed/Fast foods
                                           *Genetically Modified Foods (GMOs)
                                                                      As well as the pesticides/herbicides that come with them

                                                      My philosophy: Less externally, more internally

                 Even taking long hot showers in chemically treated tap water is too harsh for acne prone skin

                                                                 (And that's without a face wash)

                         

                                     This site is absolutely loaded with info on curing acne internally

 


#33 tim12

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 10:36 PM


The reason there are not 'credible' sources about nutrition as treatment for ANYTHING because first off, almost all medical research done is in someway funded by the government; the government(FDA, USDA) has financial ties with some major food companies, i.e. The American Cattle Association, Dairy Council, etc. and every major piece of literature/news goes through the government before being released to the public. For something to be named a treatment for a disease, it must pass a placebo test or some kind of controlled study; the government does not allow a lifestyle change to suffice as a treatment so there is no 'credible' source you will ever find out there if you go by those standards because the government won't allow it.


Side note:
I don't think most people are aware that the term 'quack' and 'quack theory' were actually created by Big Pharma. And Big Pharma is in fact an actual thing, or monopoly if you will. They created this terminology to sway public opinion into believing that anything not practiced by the AMA is ridiculous. The website 'quack watch' was created by Big Pharma. And the writer for quack watch Stephen Barrett has to be one of the most corrupt humans on this earth. He's in bed with Big Pharma and they keep him well funded to smear any and all nutritional therapies that might take away business from the pharmaceutical industry.

Also nothing from nature (unless it's GMO'd as we're finding out now) can be patented. It costs millions to test a product for efficacy and safety, which they won't do. And since the FDA says it's illegal to practice with any substance not tested, you can see why nutritional therapies will never be supported by modern medicine, regardless of how effective the natural treatment is. Or at least not by Big Pharma, which is heavily funding modern medicine and the doctors practicing the standard AMA practices.

We live in a very corrupt world, and the truth is, you are the only one looking out for you. Drugs treat symptoms, and come with even more harmful side effects than than they do potential benefits. Nature can and does address the underlying metabolic process behind these diseases and chronic illness, but it isn't near the money maker, and it's also competition for the drug companies. In a world where money is so idolized by corrupt men, profits come before the desire to do good, and unfortunately, providing any and all known methods of healing regardless of money to be made...just isn't happening


On a lighter note:

Posted Image

Edited by tim12, 10 December 2012 - 10:39 PM.


#34 alternativista

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:26 AM


I adopted a whole foods, mostly plant-based diet and it cleared me very quickly, so it works too. So do many other nutrient dense low to moderate glycemic load diets that are also not vegan. And many societies with high numbers of healthy active centenarians around the world are also not vegan.

Also, most of vegan faux foods as you recommended are not 'whole' foods. They are processed foods. And the China Study is one of the most widely critiqued and disputed studies that I have ever heard of.


There must be misunderstanding in why I put the faux vegan foods in my post; I explained this to another commenter but the reason I included them is because there are those days I do crave some comfort food like mac&cheese and pizza. For people that are used to eating a mostly processed food diet, which most Americans are, it could be difficult to completely adopt a whole foods, plant-based diet. I included these as resources for people when they have that craving once in a while because it's never good to deprive yourself; it can do more damage than good. At least these options are non-gmo and dairy free and some are even organic. They are also great in the transition stage of changing one's diet.

I also never said a vegan diet is only thing that will clear your skin, I'm just simply sharing what has worked for me.


I think you should go back and reread your post in which you spend a great deal of time emphasizing veganism and processed food substitutes. And bury some more important details. If that's not what you meant to do, it needs revising.

What clears skin is real, whole nutrient dense foods, more anti-inflammatory foods than inflammatory, in low to moderate glycemic impacting meals that that don't include anything you have an intolerance for. To be anti-inflammatory, there are many more foods that should avoided or limited besides meat. Foods and 'foods' commonly included in a vegan diet. Such as grains and grain oils.

Yes, dairy should be limited even if you don't notice an intolerance, especially unfermented, especially cow, especially the ordinary pasteurized, skim inorganic supermarket milk from grain fed and antibiotic and hormone treated cows. The unfermented part along with the pastured vs not. The planet is filled with healthy cultures that rely heavily on dairy for a huge portion of their nutrients and calories. The difference is the dairy is fermented and the animals are pastured and drugged.

And there's more. Such as how many SAD sufferers have damaged digestive tracts that are harmed by grains and seeds and may need to avoid them all for a period while they heal, and even then, should limit them and when they have them they should make sure they are prepared properly with soaking, sprouting or fermenting and then proper cooking. Few commercial food processors do that. So vegan faux food products aren't going to be a good option for them. Also, if you avoid seeds and all animal protein, it will be very difficult to get enough protein in the diet. You would have to eat a ton of food, possible grazing all day long like a gorilla to do so.

And then there's the many lifestyle habits that impact how well you process foods, manage stress, regulate hormones, etc.

Also, this is the nutrition and holistic board. It's filled with people who've done tons of research. For years. Plural.

Edited by alternativista, 11 December 2012 - 09:41 AM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


#35 scampb22

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:54 AM



I adopted a whole foods, mostly plant-based diet and it cleared me very quickly, so it works too. So do many other nutrient dense low to moderate glycemic load diets that are also not vegan. And many societies with high numbers of healthy active centenarians around the world are also not vegan.

Also, most of vegan faux foods as you recommended are not 'whole' foods. They are processed foods. And the China Study is one of the most widely critiqued and disputed studies that I have ever heard of.


There must be misunderstanding in why I put the faux vegan foods in my post; I explained this to another commenter but the reason I included them is because there are those days I do crave some comfort food like mac&cheese and pizza. For people that are used to eating a mostly processed food diet, which most Americans are, it could be difficult to completely adopt a whole foods, plant-based diet. I included these as resources for people when they have that craving once in a while because it's never good to deprive yourself; it can do more damage than good. At least these options are non-gmo and dairy free and some are even organic. They are also great in the transition stage of changing one's diet.

I also never said a vegan diet is only thing that will clear your skin, I'm just simply sharing what has worked for me.


I think you should go back and reread your post in which you spend a great deal of time emphasizing veganism and processed food substitutes. And bury some more important details. If that's not what you meant to do, it needs revising.

What clears skin is real, whole nutrient dense foods, more anti-inflammatory foods than inflammatory, in low to moderate glycemic impacting meals that that don't include anything you have an intolerance for. To be anti-inflammatory, there are many more foods that should avoided or limited besides meat. Foods and 'foods' commonly included in a vegan diet. Such as grains and grain oils.

Yes, dairy should be limited even if you don't notice an intolerance, especially unfermented, especially cow, especially the ordinary pasteurized, skim inorganic supermarket milk from grain fed and antibiotic and hormone treated cows. The unfermented part along with the pastured vs not. The planet is filled with healthy cultures that rely heavily on dairy for a huge portion of their nutrients and calories. The difference is the dairy is fermented and the animals are pastured and drugged.

And there's more. Such as how many SAD sufferers have damaged digestive tracts that are harmed by grains and seeds and may need to avoid them all for a period while they heal, and even then, should limit them and when they have them they should make sure they are prepared properly with soaking, sprouting or fermenting and then proper cooking. Few commercial food processors do that. So vegan faux food products aren't going to be a good option for them. Also, if you avoid seeds and all animal protein, it will be very difficult to get enough protein in the diet. You would have to eat a ton of food, possible grazing all day long like a gorilla to do so.

And then there's the many lifestyle habits that impact how well you process foods, manage stress, regulate hormones, etc.

Also, this is the nutrition and holistic board. It's filled with people who've done tons of research. For years. Plural.


I didn't think I could edit this post after I posted it, I thought I could only edit my blog but I figured it out, I'm new on here. So I did do some editing especially about the vegan faux food, I definitely didn't put enough emphasis on adopting a whole foods, plant based diet and going back to nature so hopefully it is much clearer now. When I wrote this, I just sat down for an hour and typed the entire thing out all from memory so my thoughts were a little jumbled up and not as clear as I would have liked. But yes, for people who have digestive tract issues but still want to pursue a plant based lifestyle, beans are an amazing protein and fiber source; I eat beans everyday and they actually support the colon. Beans contain fiber and resistant starch which are fermented by intestinal bacteria into fatty acids which are extremely beneficial to the intestines. If I'm not mistaken, people with digestive issues and damage will actually benefit from intake of beans. You can buy beans in bulk and soak them yourself.

I have no doubt there are people on these boards that have been researching longer than I have, I never claimed I was the high and mighty that knew it all and everyone else is wrong. I'm sure there are some extremely credible people on these boards, you being one of them. When I suffered from acne, I had only wished I had come across a post like mine because I really felt alone and like nothing I tried worked which is the only reason I created this post. My intent is to help people and share what I have learned and experienced over the past year. I'm an old soul though and this is my passion, I'm only 19 years old; I am truly here just to help people who feel like I did a year ago because feeling like you have no control over your body is just a horrible feeling and I never want anyone to feel like that. And since SAD is such a norm now a days, people are just flat out uneducated; not because they are choosing to be but because they're sheltered from the information. So I set out to share my hours upon hours of research with other people who feel just as hopeless as I did and hopefully shed some light on their situation.

#36 onefatalgoose

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:05 PM

Most kids/teens who get acne, if not all, are absolutely unaware as to the various ways they can deal with it. Diet was the last thing i was concerned with when i got acne at around 16. And it isn't something you learn in school either, especially not from the lunches they serve. People aren't taught until they finally realize how important it is when they inevitably get a degenerative disease/chronic illness/acne, etc. We abuse food in this country. Though i am not vegan myself, i'm very aware of how poorly most animals are treated in the food industry. I only support organic, humanely raised, grass fed, cage free, anti-biotic free, etc. And when i do eat meat, i treat it as a side dish rather than a main course.

But for real, the western diet is on it's way to becoming the single greatest killer of mankind, if it hasn't reached that point already

My intent is to help people and share what I have learned and experienced over the past year. I'm an old soul though and this is my passion, I'm only 19 years old; I am truly here just to help people who feel like I did a year ago because feeling like you have no control over your body is just a horrible feeling and I never want anyone to feel like that.


Very cool.

                                                      80%-20% Alkaline forming vs Acid forming Diet

                                                                                `Organic~
                                                                            I don't consume:
                                                                                     *Dairy
                                                                               *Whole grains
                                                                             *Refined sugars
                                                                                 *Table salt
                                                                              *Vegetable oils
                                                                        *Processed/Fast foods
                                           *Genetically Modified Foods (GMOs)
                                                                      As well as the pesticides/herbicides that come with them

                                                      My philosophy: Less externally, more internally

                 Even taking long hot showers in chemically treated tap water is too harsh for acne prone skin

                                                                 (And that's without a face wash)

                         

                                     This site is absolutely loaded with info on curing acne internally

 


#37 austra

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:22 AM

I'm not going to go as in depth with this topic because there is not enough research done on it but almost everything I said about dairy, also goes for meat. It's acidic, it putrefies in the intestines, and the anatomy of human doesn't agree with meat. Carnivore's(meat eaters) take only about 2 hours to fully digest their food, as I mentioned earlier humans take 1-2 days; we are meant to be omnivores. But, if you're not ready to give up the meat, at least try to find a clean source for it; reach out to local farmers that raise cattle/chickens humanely and are fed a clean diet.

I completely disagree with this part of your post and I'm a medical student (although that's not a validation to be fair). Most natural tribes that have a diet not unlike our ancestors had, subsist on some amount of meat, organs etc on top of carbohydrate sources such as tubers or vegetables. They don't suffer from acne and their intestines are not 'putrefied'. There are healthy vegetarian (non-vegan) tribes as well, but it would be erroneous to claim that leaving out animal products would make you healthier. We do have the enzymes to break down the collagen and protein in meat, and we are well suited to consume it. Another thing of course is whether mass-produced industrialized meat products are good for us or not.

#38 dejaclairevoyant

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:16 PM

Beans contain fiber and resistant starch which are fermented by intestinal bacteria into fatty acids which are extremely beneficial to the intestines. If I'm not mistaken, people with digestive issues and damage will actually benefit from intake of beans. You can buy beans in bulk and soak them yourself.


Sorry, but you are wrong. I realize you have good intentions, but this is completely false. Beans contain anti-nutrients which damage the digestive track and harm people with leaky gut and other damaged digestive issues. Believe me, I know. I was healthy and had clear skin and thought I could eat foods like beans again. After including beans in my diet everyday for months, my digestive track was completely destroyed again. My severe cystic acne came back. I saw it happening over a long period of time and ignored it because I kept telling myself "beans are healthy, beans are healthy."

Beans are healthy in moderation for people without any digestive damage. But they are as bad as gluten and soy and other such foods when it comes to being a regular part of the diet for anyone with gut/acne issues. The fiber thing is a myth. People with damaged guts need less fiber if anything, not more.

I realize you're just trying to help, but understand some of us have been suffering with this condition (and researching/learning about it) for over 10 years. I am one of them.

Current Skin-Care Regimen (A work in progress):

 

Morning:

Gentle wash with DKR cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil (The  lotion alone wasn't hydrating enough)

Skin 79 Korean BB Cream (excellent stuff)

 

Evening:

Gentle Wash with DKR Cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil

 


#39 alternativista

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:17 PM

ns everyday and they actually support the colon. Beans contain fiber and resistant starch which are fermented by intestinal bacteria into fatty acids which are extremely beneficial to the intestines. If I'm not mistaken, people with digestive issues and damage will actually benefit from intake of beans. You can buy beans in bulk and soak them yourself.


No, people with digestive tract issues should avoid all difficult to digest foods i.e. seeds while consuming healing, easy to digest foods one of the best being bone broths rich in the nutrients from the connective tissues. Also, mucilaginous plant foods such as okra, cactus, purslane, etc.

And not can, should buy beans in bulk and soak/ferment/sprout and then cook properly yourself. You cannot trust commercial producers to have done so. If you are going to eat them, make sure you do everything you can to reduce the anti-nutrients. That also includes consuming them with foods high in the glyconutrients that bind up the anti-nutrients. That applies to grains as well. And ideally you do the same to nuts and seeds. (and this is coming from someone who eats beans regularly)

Get your prebiotic fiber and resistant starch from sweet potatoes, jicama, and similar tubers, broccoli, onions, plantains, not-too-ripe bananas, organic apples with skin, etc.

Edited by alternativista, 13 December 2012 - 01:42 PM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


#40 onefatalgoose

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:40 AM

Another thing of course is whether mass-produced industrialized meat products are good for us or not.


...they are absolutely not. Not with all the crap they are injected with, and not with the environments they are raised in. I am often envious of these isolated cultures that haven't been exposed to chemicals and refined food. Luckily we have organic and non GMO project verified foods. Along with ways of getting pure water not from the tap

                                                      80%-20% Alkaline forming vs Acid forming Diet

                                                                                `Organic~
                                                                            I don't consume:
                                                                                     *Dairy
                                                                               *Whole grains
                                                                             *Refined sugars
                                                                                 *Table salt
                                                                              *Vegetable oils
                                                                        *Processed/Fast foods
                                           *Genetically Modified Foods (GMOs)
                                                                      As well as the pesticides/herbicides that come with them

                                                      My philosophy: Less externally, more internally

                 Even taking long hot showers in chemically treated tap water is too harsh for acne prone skin

                                                                 (And that's without a face wash)

                         

                                     This site is absolutely loaded with info on curing acne internally