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Why Are Hormones So Stubborn Despite Following Holistic Information?

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#1 FSAS

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:44 AM

surely after 3 years of the 'healthy' lifestyle would affect hormones? I'm talking appropriate sleep, water intake, exercise every day, de-stress, no chemicals, food being tested ie. taking foods out re-introducing yet sticking to a typical no sugar no processed diet no wheat, green juices everyday, attempting an aray of vitamins..etc..etc... constant probiotics, bone broths, lots of lemon water, cinnamon, coconut oil, green vegetables. No dairy for over 8 years no bread etc, liver supplements (with side effect of breaking out) no painkillers in over 5 years, never using antibiotics ever, never using chemicals on the face ever
surely after 3 years the body would be at a functioning point of actually correcting itself? hormone wise? to the way it was before adult onset acne?

That's what really gets me. How stubborn hormones are, even if you've tried everything under the sun for 3 years and they still don't alter even moderately they still do the same thing every month down to day by day replication.
It honestly makes me lose faith in most information regarding hormones -_- the whole 'change your lifestyle, mind soul body and your hormones will change accordingly.. hm.
I don't understand how all of a sudden they can change to the point of having acne but never change back despite extreme efforts even when the person has no symptoms of anything else no bloating etc no headaches or period pain or mood swings etc, 100% clear, clean and negative test results, absolutely everything in top shape.


sorry mini rants. 'hormones' is a devil word for me at the moment
so confusing >.< I wish we all had our own little mini manual because I don't understand how they can change so easily in one person but not the other as we're all humans regardless. I know you might say genetics but I share genetics with an identical twin whose skin in flawless so it's hard for me to always consider that option of genetics and connect it to the persistence of my acne :/

#2 rentedname

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:58 AM

whats wrong with your hormones exactly? is it just acne? and how bad?

i think you should see indicators of improvement within weeks or months, definitely not as long as years. a lot of holistic info is deeply flawed with no scientific backing. in the end it's just a bunch of bloggers with their own personal agendas while they spout "facts".

take everything with a grain of salt. everything that we know about nutrition and the body originated as some systematic, scientific study.

#3 o Havoc o

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:03 AM

surely after 3 years of the 'healthy' lifestyle would affect hormones? I'm talking appropriate sleep, water intake, exercise every day, de-stress, no chemicals, food being tested ie. taking foods out re-introducing yet sticking to a typical no sugar no processed diet no wheat, green juices everyday, attempting an aray of vitamins..etc..etc... constant probiotics, bone broths, lots of lemon water, cinnamon, coconut oil, green vegetables. No dairy for over 8 years no bread etc, liver supplements (with side effect of breaking out) no painkillers in over 5 years, never using antibiotics ever, never using chemicals on the face ever
surely after 3 years the body would be at a functioning point of actually correcting itself? hormone wise? to the way it was before adult onset acne?

That's what really gets me. How stubborn hormones are, even if you've tried everything under the sun for 3 years and they still don't alter even moderately they still do the same thing every month down to day by day replication.
It honestly makes me lose faith in most information regarding hormones -_- the whole 'change your lifestyle, mind soul body and your hormones will change accordingly.. hm.
I don't understand how all of a sudden they can change to the point of having acne but never change back despite extreme efforts even when the person has no symptoms of anything else no bloating etc no headaches or period pain or mood swings etc, 100% clear, clean and negative test results, absolutely everything in top shape.


sorry mini rants. 'hormones' is a devil word for me at the moment
so confusing >.< I wish we all had our own little mini manual because I don't understand how they can change so easily in one person but not the other as we're all humans regardless. I know you might say genetics but I share genetics with an identical twin whose skin in flawless so it's hard for me to always consider that option of genetics and connect it to the persistence of my acne :/


Everyone is different. Fact is no one really knows the cause or cure to acne.

Your acne may not be hormonal.

You say you got a twin. May be it is worth to see what she doesn't differently with her life style. Compare and see if you can find a key difference. Sounds silly but it may be that simple.

#4 alternativista

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:06 AM

Didn't you just tell us how you only recently began sleeping 'appropriately' and it improved your skin?

Also, a couple of months ago, didn't you tell us of a symptom that several here identified as a potentially serious condition? Have you followed up on that?

And have you tried not taking the birth control?

#5 FSAS

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:41 PM

Didn't you just tell us how you only recently began sleeping 'appropriately' and it improved your skin?

Also, a couple of months ago, didn't you tell us of a symptom that several here identified as a potentially serious condition? Have you followed up on that?

And have you tried not taking the birth control?


No sorry haha, my usual sleeping pattern is 10pm - 6-7am. It always has been. However I for some reason had this illusion my skin was clearer for that 'on the actual dot' timing the other week..but it's 1-2 weeks til my period and my face is acting up like usual.

As for that symptom, it hasn't come back which is odd, however I've always had motion sickness, the doc just said not to worry *sigh, the usual response*.

Regarding birth control, I'm definitely not ready to not take it, as I had acne on a low does estrogen and on an high dose, and the acne got even worse when I stopped spiro I don't think I'm physically and emotionally ready to face the horrors of when I wasn't on Diane just yet as sad as that is. :/
Surely I should be able to get clear whilst on it, considering so many people do without all the extras I do.

whats wrong with your hormones exactly? is it just acne? and how bad?

i think you should see indicators of improvement within weeks or months, definitely not as long as years. a lot of holistic info is deeply flawed with no scientific backing. in the end it's just a bunch of bloggers with their own personal agendas while they spout "facts".

take everything with a grain of salt. everything that we know about nutrition and the body originated as some systematic, scientific study.


I don't know exactly, all acne is hormonal I've definitely learned that (well maybe not all in the sense people who break out from washing too much/products etc).
For me though it's definitely hormonal in my eyes because it has a pattern that is replicated every month and coincides with my period. In general I always have acne, it's usually non-inflamed (a few inflamed) bumps on the forehead, around the mouth and more recently chest/back and neck. However 2 weeks before my period this get very inflamed and I always have ..just about every pore clogged, lots of blackheads (spesh. on the nose, forehead and chin) and a I've even recently been getting more pimples between my eyes, cheeks and forehead. I often get painful lumps that just rise but nothing happens so I don't know if thats a cyst, they almost feel full of blood if anything.

The thing is mid-period and the day after my period my face is perfect and I mean spotless and what's incredibly weird is even all the red marks left and scars are not visible. Which definitely indicates there's a lot of 'something' going on with hormones rather something else because this happens everyone month and we all know hormones know how to change things very fast! People used to doubt me when I said my acne would literally come and go. But I'm just observing.

I agree to what you're saying , which is frustrating because I really wish I knew which direction to head in now I feel like I've covered every route.
Incredibly helpless even doctors turn me away and holistic doctors just tell me things I want to believe, despite their remedies having no affect and charging me far too much for it.


surely after 3 years of the 'healthy' lifestyle would affect hormones? I'm talking appropriate sleep, water intake, exercise every day, de-stress, no chemicals, food being tested ie. taking foods out re-introducing yet sticking to a typical no sugar no processed diet no wheat, green juices everyday, attempting an aray of vitamins..etc..etc... constant probiotics, bone broths, lots of lemon water, cinnamon, coconut oil, green vegetables. No dairy for over 8 years no bread etc, liver supplements (with side effect of breaking out) no painkillers in over 5 years, never using antibiotics ever, never using chemicals on the face ever
surely after 3 years the body would be at a functioning point of actually correcting itself? hormone wise? to the way it was before adult onset acne?

That's what really gets me. How stubborn hormones are, even if you've tried everything under the sun for 3 years and they still don't alter even moderately they still do the same thing every month down to day by day replication.
It honestly makes me lose faith in most information regarding hormones -_- the whole 'change your lifestyle, mind soul body and your hormones will change accordingly.. hm.
I don't understand how all of a sudden they can change to the point of having acne but never change back despite extreme efforts even when the person has no symptoms of anything else no bloating etc no headaches or period pain or mood swings etc, 100% clear, clean and negative test results, absolutely everything in top shape.


sorry mini rants. 'hormones' is a devil word for me at the moment
so confusing >.< I wish we all had our own little mini manual because I don't understand how they can change so easily in one person but not the other as we're all humans regardless. I know you might say genetics but I share genetics with an identical twin whose skin in flawless so it's hard for me to always consider that option of genetics and connect it to the persistence of my acne :/


Everyone is different. Fact is no one really knows the cause or cure to acne.

Your acne may not be hormonal.

You say you got a twin. May be it is worth to see what she doesn't differently with her life style. Compare and see if you can find a key difference. Sounds silly but it may be that simple.


My twin and I don't live different lives >.< That's what sucks the most because even as a kid, through-out highschool etc we both always ate the same, exercised the same, had the same friends, did the same things, til this day I can basically read her mind it's insane we even think the same! Live the same house..it goes on..we're one of those really odd twins that are literally..identical.

The only difference that I can note is I started drinking alcohol when I was 17. She basically first got drunk this year (nearly 21) I used to get drunk maybe once a week for 1-2 years..however I ways also an incredibly healthy person back then too, as mentioned I haven't even had processed foods for many years.

I've had my liver checked, checked and checked. I've even taken the best liver supplements out there in aus for months at a time yet all I noticed was possibly even worse acne. All my tests come back incredibly healthy there is nothing doctors can fault even the slightest bit -_- which I contribute to such a long term 'healthy' life but it doesn't make sense why I have acne.

My twin had acne when she was -16-17 however I never did. however her acne was definitely not bad Hers went away but that could very well be because she's on the diane, the same pill i'm on. her skin is beyond flawless right now not even one single large pore or blackhead.

I got my acne at the end of 18-19 out of no where and that was so so so sudden. In less than a week I went from no acne to severe and had no choice but to jump on diane and spiro at once.

...sorry a bit of a life story there!
I'm finding it hard to find a new direction because I feel like I've covered all the holistic routes and I don't want to even touch chemical topicals or whatnot. The birth control pill is the only pill I want to take (no i dont want to but feel i must at least for now) but even so I always make sure I'm taking zinc, iron and b12 as I've had issues with those in the past.
My iron was a flat 0 for over a year before I had acne despite my efforts to obtain iron. When I got acne it returned to normal and stayed that way - that was weird!
Not to mention my b12 fluctuated excessively. one year well deficient. the next year it was back to normal. this year I had to get injections and now it's back to normal (despite eating proper b12 foods). The doc said it can take years for b12 to act how it does with me..yet I guess I proved them wrong >.<



sorry for the life story there guys, bit of a novel!!!

#6 Michelle Reece

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:00 PM

surely after 3 years of the 'healthy' lifestyle would affect hormones? I'm talking appropriate sleep, water intake, exercise every day, de-stress, no chemicals, food being tested ie. taking foods out re-introducing yet sticking to a typical no sugar no processed diet no wheat, green juices everyday, attempting an aray of vitamins..etc..etc... constant probiotics, bone broths, lots of lemon water, cinnamon, coconut oil, green vegetables. No dairy for over 8 years no bread etc, liver supplements (with side effect of breaking out) no painkillers in over 5 years, never using antibiotics ever, never using chemicals on the face ever
surely after 3 years the body would be at a functioning point of actually correcting itself? hormone wise? to the way it was before adult onset acne?

That's what really gets me. How stubborn hormones are, even if you've tried everything under the sun for 3 years and they still don't alter even moderately they still do the same thing every month down to day by day replication.
It honestly makes me lose faith in most information regarding hormones -_- the whole 'change your lifestyle, mind soul body and your hormones will change accordingly.. hm.
I don't understand how all of a sudden they can change to the point of having acne but never change back despite extreme efforts even when the person has no symptoms of anything else no bloating etc no headaches or period pain or mood swings etc, 100% clear, clean and negative test results, absolutely everything in top shape.


sorry mini rants. 'hormones' is a devil word for me at the moment
so confusing >.< I wish we all had our own little mini manual because I don't understand how they can change so easily in one person but not the other as we're all humans regardless. I know you might say genetics but I share genetics with an identical twin whose skin in flawless so it's hard for me to always consider that option of genetics and connect it to the persistence of my acne :/


Identical twins still different genetics, mainly phenotypes. Typically, the similarities in genes start to decrease as the twins get older. While identical twin studies are useful, they are not perfectly accurate when determining the gene-environment connection.

The amount of androgens produced is fixed. Despite medications or other factors that can influence the hormones, the body will produce only X amount and the environment will only change it to a certain extent. To cure the high range, you'd have to change your genetics.

There hasn't been a specific, measured 'ideal' androgen amount or range for preventing and stopping acne. Acne is caused by excess hormones, but there aren't any studies specifically measuring the cutoff that would definitely cause acne. I haven't found any study that measured if some patients had in fact testosterone levels beyond 3 ng/ml (in females) or 46 ng/ml for males. Or SHGB for that matter. Or estradiol. Gah, I wish there was more studies or evidence behind this. I've been digging around in PubMed and Google Scholar for quite some time now regarding this subject, and I hope I'm just simply not aware of such a study. Maybe a gynecologist could explain the hormone-acne connection than I can and how difficult it is to tackle/cure the problem. Does this make sense, FSAS?

#7 FSAS

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:32 AM


surely after 3 years of the 'healthy' lifestyle would affect hormones? I'm talking appropriate sleep, water intake, exercise every day, de-stress, no chemicals, food being tested ie. taking foods out re-introducing yet sticking to a typical no sugar no processed diet no wheat, green juices everyday, attempting an aray of vitamins..etc..etc... constant probiotics, bone broths, lots of lemon water, cinnamon, coconut oil, green vegetables. No dairy for over 8 years no bread etc, liver supplements (with side effect of breaking out) no painkillers in over 5 years, never using antibiotics ever, never using chemicals on the face ever
surely after 3 years the body would be at a functioning point of actually correcting itself? hormone wise? to the way it was before adult onset acne?

That's what really gets me. How stubborn hormones are, even if you've tried everything under the sun for 3 years and they still don't alter even moderately they still do the same thing every month down to day by day replication.
It honestly makes me lose faith in most information regarding hormones -_- the whole 'change your lifestyle, mind soul body and your hormones will change accordingly.. hm.
I don't understand how all of a sudden they can change to the point of having acne but never change back despite extreme efforts even when the person has no symptoms of anything else no bloating etc no headaches or period pain or mood swings etc, 100% clear, clean and negative test results, absolutely everything in top shape.


sorry mini rants. 'hormones' is a devil word for me at the moment
so confusing >.< I wish we all had our own little mini manual because I don't understand how they can change so easily in one person but not the other as we're all humans regardless. I know you might say genetics but I share genetics with an identical twin whose skin in flawless so it's hard for me to always consider that option of genetics and connect it to the persistence of my acne :/


Identical twins still different genetics, mainly phenotypes. Typically, the similarities in genes start to decrease as the twins get older. While identical twin studies are useful, they are not perfectly accurate when determining the gene-environment connection.

The amount of androgens produced is fixed. Despite medications or other factors that can influence the hormones, the body will produce only X amount and the environment will only change it to a certain extent. To cure the high range, you'd have to change your genetics.

There hasn't been a specific, measured 'ideal' androgen amount or range for preventing and stopping acne. Acne is caused by excess hormones, but there aren't any studies specifically measuring the cutoff that would definitely cause acne. I haven't found any study that measured if some patients had in fact testosterone levels beyond 3 ng/ml (in females) or 46 ng/ml for males. Or SHGB for that matter. Or estradiol. Gah, I wish there was more studies or evidence behind this. I've been digging around in PubMed and Google Scholar for quite some time now regarding this subject, and I hope I'm just simply not aware of such a study. Maybe a gynecologist could explain the hormone-acne connection than I can and how difficult it is to tackle/cure the problem. Does this make sense, FSAS?


Thanks for your info, you're very helpful! I appreciate your efforts!
I'm curious, if androgen output is fixed, shouldn't I have developed acne as a teen? When all my hormones were changing and taking their place in my body? I'm not sure where I get this hormonal gene from though, I've questioned all the males and females in my family both sides and the older generations all the way to the great greats and no one had acne :/ I'm honestly very much one of a kind gene related. Tonight was an especially bad night acne wise, it's almost as worse as it was before I was even on diane, 3 years ago. It's really hard to grasp that after everything I've done and all the life I've wasted because of such hasn't ended me up in a better position appearance wise. It's just incredible really. I know this might sound vulgar or disrespectful to my seemingly healthy body but I have to admit I wish I had some extreme symptoms so I could at least pinpoint a possible cause. Even something as simple as bloating or pains in my stomach at least then I'd know it was digestion. What's worse is the other week I did the ultimate test and consumed dairy (I exclude this one day from my 'record of not consuming it as it was a once off test). I ate cheese, drank milk even ate white bread and nothing happened. No discomfort. No new acne, the acne just continued spot on to it's usually habits monthly. I wish food affected me more obviously, I guess that's my most frustrating part the fact that no food, lifestyle, sleep or anything has affected me positively..or negatively.. I just remain a constant >.< honest to god not one thing better or worse to note after months of attempts. except for liver supplements, I feel they broke me out more around my neck and ears.

#8 alternativista

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:55 AM

??? Diane is birth control. And maybe it is screwing you up.

Edited by alternativista, 05 December 2012 - 07:56 AM.


#9 dejaclairevoyant

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:22 AM

Birth control definitely screws me up very badly.

#10 FSAS

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:16 PM

??? Diane is birth control. And maybe it is screwing you up.


I feel like it's actually keeping my acne and a semi-manageable level, I went on diane straight away when my face imploded with acne, although I'm aware it can take up to 3 months for it to get in the system and by mid the year following I was honestly acne free and had amazing skin on spiro and diane. Then I went off spiro because I didn't want to be dependent of 2 drugs. Then my face is how it is now however I have a very real feeling m face is a lot lot worse off diane. I went on diane because it's apparently the most 'acne-fighting'. I was hoping to get clear on diane so that I had more confidence to come off it knowing I could be in control of my skin

#11 dejaclairevoyant

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

What happened in the past may not happen now. Your hormones may have changed. All I can tell you is that if it were me, I'd consider going off the BC.

#12 Michelle Reece

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:15 PM



surely after 3 years of the 'healthy' lifestyle would affect hormones? I'm talking appropriate sleep, water intake, exercise every day, de-stress, no chemicals, food being tested ie. taking foods out re-introducing yet sticking to a typical no sugar no processed diet no wheat, green juices everyday, attempting an aray of vitamins..etc..etc... constant probiotics, bone broths, lots of lemon water, cinnamon, coconut oil, green vegetables. No dairy for over 8 years no bread etc, liver supplements (with side effect of breaking out) no painkillers in over 5 years, never using antibiotics ever, never using chemicals on the face ever
surely after 3 years the body would be at a functioning point of actually correcting itself? hormone wise? to the way it was before adult onset acne?

That's what really gets me. How stubborn hormones are, even if you've tried everything under the sun for 3 years and they still don't alter even moderately they still do the same thing every month down to day by day replication.
It honestly makes me lose faith in most information regarding hormones -_- the whole 'change your lifestyle, mind soul body and your hormones will change accordingly.. hm.
I don't understand how all of a sudden they can change to the point of having acne but never change back despite extreme efforts even when the person has no symptoms of anything else no bloating etc no headaches or period pain or mood swings etc, 100% clear, clean and negative test results, absolutely everything in top shape.


sorry mini rants. 'hormones' is a devil word for me at the moment
so confusing >.< I wish we all had our own little mini manual because I don't understand how they can change so easily in one person but not the other as we're all humans regardless. I know you might say genetics but I share genetics with an identical twin whose skin in flawless so it's hard for me to always consider that option of genetics and connect it to the persistence of my acne :/


Identical twins still different genetics, mainly phenotypes. Typically, the similarities in genes start to decrease as the twins get older. While identical twin studies are useful, they are not perfectly accurate when determining the gene-environment connection.

The amount of androgens produced is fixed. Despite medications or other factors that can influence the hormones, the body will produce only X amount and the environment will only change it to a certain extent. To cure the high range, you'd have to change your genetics.

There hasn't been a specific, measured 'ideal' androgen amount or range for preventing and stopping acne. Acne is caused by excess hormones, but there aren't any studies specifically measuring the cutoff that would definitely cause acne. I haven't found any study that measured if some patients had in fact testosterone levels beyond 3 ng/ml (in females) or 46 ng/ml for males. Or SHGB for that matter. Or estradiol. Gah, I wish there was more studies or evidence behind this. I've been digging around in PubMed and Google Scholar for quite some time now regarding this subject, and I hope I'm just simply not aware of such a study. Maybe a gynecologist could explain the hormone-acne connection than I can and how difficult it is to tackle/cure the problem. Does this make sense, FSAS?


Thanks for your info, you're very helpful! I appreciate your efforts!
I'm curious, if androgen output is fixed, shouldn't I have developed acne as a teen? When all my hormones were changing and taking their place in my body? I'm not sure where I get this hormonal gene from though, I've questioned all the males and females in my family both sides and the older generations all the way to the great greats and no one had acne :/ I'm honestly very much one of a kind gene related. Tonight was an especially bad night acne wise, it's almost as worse as it was before I was even on diane, 3 years ago. It's really hard to grasp that after everything I've done and all the life I've wasted because of such hasn't ended me up in a better position appearance wise. It's just incredible really. I know this might sound vulgar or disrespectful to my seemingly healthy body but I have to admit I wish I had some extreme symptoms so I could at least pinpoint a possible cause. Even something as simple as bloating or pains in my stomach at least then I'd know it was digestion. What's worse is the other week I did the ultimate test and consumed dairy (I exclude this one day from my 'record of not consuming it as it was a once off test). I ate cheese, drank milk even ate white bread and nothing happened. No discomfort. No new acne, the acne just continued spot on to it's usually habits monthly. I wish food affected me more obviously, I guess that's my most frustrating part the fact that no food, lifestyle, sleep or anything has affected me positively..or negatively.. I just remain a constant >.< honest to god not one thing better or worse to note after months of attempts. except for liver supplements, I feel they broke me out more around my neck and ears.


This is a bit difficult to explain. Basically, there is a flaw in your genes. It may be "fine" at one moment, but the inherent flaw causes this (and other genes) to not express itself properly (mutate) at some point in time. It is not apparent and does not happen right away, which is why several diseases have a later onset. A mutation happened in your genes somewhere, but at the moment science has no idea what the specific mutation(s) is/are or what exactly causes it/them, let alone if it does in fact "correct" itself later on in some people. The mutated gene(s) then produce a "fixed" amount of androgens.

Right now the best you can do is go on anti-androgens and birth control. I can totally understand the feeling of not wanting to be dependent on drugs. But what would you rather have: reduced acne with prescription dependence or worse acne without prescriptions? I would personally chose the former, since I don't want the possibility of scars where I need laser resurfacing to fix. Always weigh the pros and cons especially when it comes to acne treatment!

Edited by Michelle Reece, 06 December 2012 - 09:03 PM.


#13 alternativista

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:47 PM

What happened in the past may not happen now. Your hormones may have changed. All I can tell you is that if it were me, I'd consider going off the BC.


Agreed. Besides, if you want the lesser of two evils, that would be spiro for most people.

Also, your genes are turned on and off by things you do/happen to you or your mother did during your gestation or early childhood. You and your sister arent identical. .

Consider ths. You were clear on spiro. Not clear off spiro. So what is Diane doing for you? And you've been taking it how long?

Edited by alternativista, 05 December 2012 - 07:50 PM.


#14 onefatalgoose

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:12 PM

FSAS do you wear makeup? Do you wash with some type of cleanser? (not saying you should) I know it's hormonal for you, but i feel like you can have a ton of hormones, yet no acne. The people who don't get acne still have raging hormones from time to time. I really feel like everyone's acne is a complex combination of so many things. Whether it's the level at which your liver/thyroid/gut functions, or food intolerances, or raging hormones, or a combo of these, or a combo of these mixed with an aggravating topical regimen, or makeup clogging the pores, or ineffective shedding of skin cells, or thick sebum mixing with the dead skin cells clogging the pores, or stripping away of the acid mantle, etc.

So many freaking factors. Also this is a tired question, but do you get plenty of omega 3's? If i recall correctly, they help to thin the sebum, not to mention the numerous other health/skin benefits

#15 redvengeance

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:15 AM

I finally got control of my adult acne, which was a pure horror at my age. Being over 40, I shouldnt have to deal with zits along with wrinkles! I did all the dermatologist suggestions, and couldnt figure out why even Bactrim wasnt really getting to the bottom of the issue. It did help with the cystic parts though...

But I did have a recent breakthrough. I went back in time trying to remember what I was doing when my skin was the best, and it was when I used to make my own homemade soap. I think my skin gets overwhelmed with all the chemicals I plop on it when my skin is bare. So I went back to a "homemade" soap from the health food store, which happens to have Dead Sea Mud/Salt in it. I dont know what the magic of that stuff is, or if it is just because I ditched the usual "washing" chemicals, but in about a week, all my acne started to dry up. No kidding. I have heard some of you say that salt helps cure a vicious cystic flare, so that might be how it works, but not sure. It wasnt too expensive to try anyway...like 5 dollars and some change for the bar (and it lasts quite a while). Its made by DeadSeaWarehouse and they have a website if you dont find it locally (the site is run by super nice people, so dont be afraid to email questions!). DermaE is what I use for moisturizer, and I really try not to use any makeup on my skin without a layer of lotion between. Avoid Olay like the plague...its got something in it that is terrible for sensitive skin. Flare galore!!

Oh and one other thing, check your shampoo! Although I typically like to buy stuff from the health food store, I bought a jojoba shampoo from there made by Natures Gate, and suddenly my whole back and face broke out! Everywhere my hair touched my skin I was a lumpy zitty mess!

If anyone has any ideas what could be the common evil ingredient for both Olay and Natures Gate Jojoba, let me know. I cant seem to find a common factor, but I read that some types of ingredients contain a trace amount of a substance that is very irritating to some people. I cant remember where I got that info, I think it was a lotion crafting site, but heres some disturbing facts about the toxins in our health & beauty products http://lotionsecrets...aryharmful.html The breakouts from these products are almost like half rash, half acne. If one of the products in some shampoos and lotions is derived from cats & dogs (ick!) that would explain the problem. I am allergic to both. I dont think I am avoiding all these toxins, but I am avoiding the right ones, apparently. Anyway, hope this helps someone!

#16 FSAS

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:24 PM


What happened in the past may not happen now. Your hormones may have changed. All I can tell you is that if it were me, I'd consider going off the BC.


Agreed. Besides, if you want the lesser of two evils, that would be spiro for most people.

Also, your genes are turned on and off by things you do/happen to you or your mother did during your gestation or early childhood. You and your sister arent identical. .

Consider ths. You were clear on spiro. Not clear off spiro. So what is Diane doing for you? And you've been taking it how long?


I went off spiro more because I was concerned my doctors wouldn't continue to prescribe it
also regarding when my mother was pregnant, I don't really know but I assume she did 'all the right things', she definitely didn't drink or smoke however my sister and I were born 3 months early and unnaturally and therefore I was never allowed on breast milk because I spent 3 months in hospital.

I've been on diane for 2 years now.

as mentioned I really am far too scared to go off it now, I definitely not ready and in addition I'm using it for the 'purpose' benefits and dont want to switch around birth controls




surely after 3 years of the 'healthy' lifestyle would affect hormones? I'm talking appropriate sleep, water intake, exercise every day, de-stress, no chemicals, food being tested ie. taking foods out re-introducing yet sticking to a typical no sugar no processed diet no wheat, green juices everyday, attempting an aray of vitamins..etc..etc... constant probiotics, bone broths, lots of lemon water, cinnamon, coconut oil, green vegetables. No dairy for over 8 years no bread etc, liver supplements (with side effect of breaking out) no painkillers in over 5 years, never using antibiotics ever, never using chemicals on the face ever
surely after 3 years the body would be at a functioning point of actually correcting itself? hormone wise? to the way it was before adult onset acne?

That's what really gets me. How stubborn hormones are, even if you've tried everything under the sun for 3 years and they still don't alter even moderately they still do the same thing every month down to day by day replication.
It honestly makes me lose faith in most information regarding hormones -_- the whole 'change your lifestyle, mind soul body and your hormones will change accordingly.. hm.
I don't understand how all of a sudden they can change to the point of having acne but never change back despite extreme efforts even when the person has no symptoms of anything else no bloating etc no headaches or period pain or mood swings etc, 100% clear, clean and negative test results, absolutely everything in top shape.


sorry mini rants. 'hormones' is a devil word for me at the moment
so confusing >.< I wish we all had our own little mini manual because I don't understand how they can change so easily in one person but not the other as we're all humans regardless. I know you might say genetics but I share genetics with an identical twin whose skin in flawless so it's hard for me to always consider that option of genetics and connect it to the persistence of my acne :/


Identical twins still different genetics, mainly phenotypes. Typically, the similarities in genes start to decrease as the twins get older. While identical twin studies are useful, they are not perfectly accurate when determining the gene-environment connection.

The amount of androgens produced is fixed. Despite medications or other factors that can influence the hormones, the body will produce only X amount and the environment will only change it to a certain extent. To cure the high range, you'd have to change your genetics.

There hasn't been a specific, measured 'ideal' androgen amount or range for preventing and stopping acne. Acne is caused by excess hormones, but there aren't any studies specifically measuring the cutoff that would definitely cause acne. I haven't found any study that measured if some patients had in fact testosterone levels beyond 3 ng/ml (in females) or 46 ng/ml for males. Or SHGB for that matter. Or estradiol. Gah, I wish there was more studies or evidence behind this. I've been digging around in PubMed and Google Scholar for quite some time now regarding this subject, and I hope I'm just simply not aware of such a study. Maybe a gynecologist could explain the hormone-acne connection than I can and how difficult it is to tackle/cure the problem. Does this make sense, FSAS?


Thanks for your info, you're very helpful! I appreciate your efforts!
I'm curious, if androgen output is fixed, shouldn't I have developed acne as a teen? When all my hormones were changing and taking their place in my body? I'm not sure where I get this hormonal gene from though, I've questioned all the males and females in my family both sides and the older generations all the way to the great greats and no one had acne :/ I'm honestly very much one of a kind gene related. Tonight was an especially bad night acne wise, it's almost as worse as it was before I was even on diane, 3 years ago. It's really hard to grasp that after everything I've done and all the life I've wasted because of such hasn't ended me up in a better position appearance wise. It's just incredible really. I know this might sound vulgar or disrespectful to my seemingly healthy body but I have to admit I wish I had some extreme symptoms so I could at least pinpoint a possible cause. Even something as simple as bloating or pains in my stomach at least then I'd know it was digestion. What's worse is the other week I did the ultimate test and consumed dairy (I exclude this one day from my 'record of not consuming it as it was a once off test). I ate cheese, drank milk even ate white bread and nothing happened. No discomfort. No new acne, the acne just continued spot on to it's usually habits monthly. I wish food affected me more obviously, I guess that's my most frustrating part the fact that no food, lifestyle, sleep or anything has affected me positively..or negatively.. I just remain a constant >.< honest to god not one thing better or worse to note after months of attempts. except for liver supplements, I feel they broke me out more around my neck and ears.


This is a bit difficult to explain. Basically, there is a flaw in your genes. It may be "fine" at one moment, but the inherent flaw causes this (and other genes) to not express itself properly (mutate) at some point in time. It is not apparent and does not happen right away, which is why several diseases have a later onset. A mutation happened in your genes somewhere, but at the moment science has no idea what the specific mutation(s) is/are or what exactly causes it/them, let alone if it does in fact "correct" itself later on in some people. The mutated gene(s) then produce a fixed amount of androgens.

Right now the best you can do is go on anti-androgens and birth control. I can totally understand the feeling of not wanting to be dependent on drugs. But what would you rather have: reduced acne with prescription dependence or worse acne without prescriptions? I would personally chose the former, since I don't want the possibility of scars where I need laser resurfacing to fix. Always weigh the pros and cons especially when it comes to acne treatment!


Thanks for the info.
I was reading a bit about epigentics a while ago,
Is there a way to 'turn the genes off' that have been 'activated' ? I assume not easily or my 3 years of such lifestyle would have been able to control the acne. I hate the word genes -_-

FSAS do you wear makeup? Do you wash with some type of cleanser? (not saying you should) I know it's hormonal for you, but i feel like you can have a ton of hormones, yet no acne. The people who don't get acne still have raging hormones from time to time. I really feel like everyone's acne is a complex combination of so many things. Whether it's the level at which your liver/thyroid/gut functions, or food intolerances, or raging hormones, or a combo of these, or a combo of these mixed with an aggravating topical regimen, or makeup clogging the pores, or ineffective shedding of skin cells, or thick sebum mixing with the dead skin cells clogging the pores, or stripping away of the acid mantle, etc.

So many freaking factors. Also this is a tired question, but do you get plenty of omega 3's? If i recall correctly, they help to thin the sebum, not to mention the numerous other health/skin benefits


I wear makeup to face this world, I need it sadly however I went 3 months without it and it made no difference to my skin so I continue to use it so i can at least go outside even though you can still see all my bumps.
I have never used chemicals on my face, I learned at a very young age haha I was a health nut as a kid. So the whole dairy, chemical etc thing isn't in my history. I've tried various non-chemical face options such as honey, oils etc but now I just stick to grapeseed oil to get my makeup off and it's all very random but sometimes I use tea tree oil for a bit then I might used rose hip oil for another few weeks..at the moment I'm using grapeseed oil and just wiping over with diluted lemon or ACV to add some more acid to the face after using the water. Nothing has affected my skin topically as to say I've never seen a difference good or bad no matter what I use, it all remains very constant.

Off diane though (aka before I went on it) my skin was gross and oily and yeah..terrible. so I expect that's my face off diane and even worse as most talk about so another reason why I'm not keen to go off the pill at this stage in life..that and the higher chances of getting pregnant of course.
I feel diane is keeping things down to a minimum, compared to what it used to be :/

#17 panna89

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:51 PM

...

Edited by lexbabe221, 10 January 2013 - 03:12 PM.


#18 Michelle Reece

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:14 AM



What happened in the past may not happen now. Your hormones may have changed. All I can tell you is that if it were me, I'd consider going off the BC.


Agreed. Besides, if you want the lesser of two evils, that would be spiro for most people.

Also, your genes are turned on and off by things you do/happen to you or your mother did during your gestation or early childhood. You and your sister arent identical. .

Consider ths. You were clear on spiro. Not clear off spiro. So what is Diane doing for you? And you've been taking it how long?


I went off spiro more because I was concerned my doctors wouldn't continue to prescribe it
also regarding when my mother was pregnant, I don't really know but I assume she did 'all the right things', she definitely didn't drink or smoke however my sister and I were born 3 months early and unnaturally and therefore I was never allowed on breast milk because I spent 3 months in hospital.

I've been on diane for 2 years now.

as mentioned I really am far too scared to go off it now, I definitely not ready and in addition I'm using it for the 'purpose' benefits and dont want to switch around birth controls




surely after 3 years of the 'healthy' lifestyle would affect hormones? I'm talking appropriate sleep, water intake, exercise every day, de-stress, no chemicals, food being tested ie. taking foods out re-introducing yet sticking to a typical no sugar no processed diet no wheat, green juices everyday, attempting an aray of vitamins..etc..etc... constant probiotics, bone broths, lots of lemon water, cinnamon, coconut oil, green vegetables. No dairy for over 8 years no bread etc, liver supplements (with side effect of breaking out) no painkillers in over 5 years, never using antibiotics ever, never using chemicals on the face ever
surely after 3 years the body would be at a functioning point of actually correcting itself? hormone wise? to the way it was before adult onset acne?

That's what really gets me. How stubborn hormones are, even if you've tried everything under the sun for 3 years and they still don't alter even moderately they still do the same thing every month down to day by day replication.
It honestly makes me lose faith in most information regarding hormones -_- the whole 'change your lifestyle, mind soul body and your hormones will change accordingly.. hm.
I don't understand how all of a sudden they can change to the point of having acne but never change back despite extreme efforts even when the person has no symptoms of anything else no bloating etc no headaches or period pain or mood swings etc, 100% clear, clean and negative test results, absolutely everything in top shape.


sorry mini rants. 'hormones' is a devil word for me at the moment
so confusing >.< I wish we all had our own little mini manual because I don't understand how they can change so easily in one person but not the other as we're all humans regardless. I know you might say genetics but I share genetics with an identical twin whose skin in flawless so it's hard for me to always consider that option of genetics and connect it to the persistence of my acne :/


Identical twins still different genetics, mainly phenotypes. Typically, the similarities in genes start to decrease as the twins get older. While identical twin studies are useful, they are not perfectly accurate when determining the gene-environment connection.

The amount of androgens produced is fixed. Despite medications or other factors that can influence the hormones, the body will produce only X amount and the environment will only change it to a certain extent. To cure the high range, you'd have to change your genetics.

There hasn't been a specific, measured 'ideal' androgen amount or range for preventing and stopping acne. Acne is caused by excess hormones, but there aren't any studies specifically measuring the cutoff that would definitely cause acne. I haven't found any study that measured if some patients had in fact testosterone levels beyond 3 ng/ml (in females) or 46 ng/ml for males. Or SHGB for that matter. Or estradiol. Gah, I wish there was more studies or evidence behind this. I've been digging around in PubMed and Google Scholar for quite some time now regarding this subject, and I hope I'm just simply not aware of such a study. Maybe a gynecologist could explain the hormone-acne connection than I can and how difficult it is to tackle/cure the problem. Does this make sense, FSAS?


Thanks for your info, you're very helpful! I appreciate your efforts!
I'm curious, if androgen output is fixed, shouldn't I have developed acne as a teen? When all my hormones were changing and taking their place in my body? I'm not sure where I get this hormonal gene from though, I've questioned all the males and females in my family both sides and the older generations all the way to the great greats and no one had acne :/ I'm honestly very much one of a kind gene related. Tonight was an especially bad night acne wise, it's almost as worse as it was before I was even on diane, 3 years ago. It's really hard to grasp that after everything I've done and all the life I've wasted because of such hasn't ended me up in a better position appearance wise. It's just incredible really. I know this might sound vulgar or disrespectful to my seemingly healthy body but I have to admit I wish I had some extreme symptoms so I could at least pinpoint a possible cause. Even something as simple as bloating or pains in my stomach at least then I'd know it was digestion. What's worse is the other week I did the ultimate test and consumed dairy (I exclude this one day from my 'record of not consuming it as it was a once off test). I ate cheese, drank milk even ate white bread and nothing happened. No discomfort. No new acne, the acne just continued spot on to it's usually habits monthly. I wish food affected me more obviously, I guess that's my most frustrating part the fact that no food, lifestyle, sleep or anything has affected me positively..or negatively.. I just remain a constant >.< honest to god not one thing better or worse to note after months of attempts. except for liver supplements, I feel they broke me out more around my neck and ears.


This is a bit difficult to explain. Basically, there is a flaw in your genes. It may be "fine" at one moment, but the inherent flaw causes this (and other genes) to not express itself properly (mutate) at some point in time. It is not apparent and does not happen right away, which is why several diseases have a later onset. A mutation happened in your genes somewhere, but at the moment science has no idea what the specific mutation(s) is/are or what exactly causes it/them, let alone if it does in fact "correct" itself later on in some people. The mutated gene(s) then produce a fixed amount of androgens.

Right now the best you can do is go on anti-androgens and birth control. I can totally understand the feeling of not wanting to be dependent on drugs. But what would you rather have: reduced acne with prescription dependence or worse acne without prescriptions? I would personally chose the former, since I don't want the possibility of scars where I need laser resurfacing to fix. Always weigh the pros and cons especially when it comes to acne treatment!


Thanks for the info.
I was reading a bit about epigentics a while ago,
Is there a way to 'turn the genes off' that have been 'activated' ? I assume not easily or my 3 years of such lifestyle would have been able to control the acne. I hate the word genes -_-

FSAS do you wear makeup? Do you wash with some type of cleanser? (not saying you should) I know it's hormonal for you, but i feel like you can have a ton of hormones, yet no acne. The people who don't get acne still have raging hormones from time to time. I really feel like everyone's acne is a complex combination of so many things. Whether it's the level at which your liver/thyroid/gut functions, or food intolerances, or raging hormones, or a combo of these, or a combo of these mixed with an aggravating topical regimen, or makeup clogging the pores, or ineffective shedding of skin cells, or thick sebum mixing with the dead skin cells clogging the pores, or stripping away of the acid mantle, etc.

So many freaking factors. Also this is a tired question, but do you get plenty of omega 3's? If i recall correctly, they help to thin the sebum, not to mention the numerous other health/skin benefits


I wear makeup to face this world, I need it sadly however I went 3 months without it and it made no difference to my skin so I continue to use it so i can at least go outside even though you can still see all my bumps.
I have never used chemicals on my face, I learned at a very young age haha I was a health nut as a kid. So the whole dairy, chemical etc thing isn't in my history. I've tried various non-chemical face options such as honey, oils etc but now I just stick to grapeseed oil to get my makeup off and it's all very random but sometimes I use tea tree oil for a bit then I might used rose hip oil for another few weeks..at the moment I'm using grapeseed oil and just wiping over with diluted lemon or ACV to add some more acid to the face after using the water. Nothing has affected my skin topically as to say I've never seen a difference good or bad no matter what I use, it all remains very constant.

Off diane though (aka before I went on it) my skin was gross and oily and yeah..terrible. so I expect that's my face off diane and even worse as most talk about so another reason why I'm not keen to go off the pill at this stage in life..that and the higher chances of getting pregnant of course.
I feel diane is keeping things down to a minimum, compared to what it used to be :/


It's quite difficult to "turn off" genes. You can take drugs to prevent certain parts of DNA unwinding like Irinotecan (colon cancer drug), but there's no known and consistent way to "turn them off". It essentially "just happens". Now, while genes are not 100% destiny, they are often high probabilites.

Take familial hypercholesterolemia, for example. Unlike those with lifestyle-induced obesity, familial hypercholseterolemia is a definite genetic mutation in typically the LDLR genes. If you have that mutation, you are very likely to develop it no matter what diet or lifestyle you try -- but you can slow its onset and very likely does not mean 100%.

There's talk on the forums that you can change acne with epigenetics. Well, maybe. Before we can even do that, we need to identify the genes that are involved with acne. Then we need to figure out how the genes express themselves and what (drugs) can inhibit them. It's too early to tell and it's all speculation at this point.