29 replies to this topic

[Ind1g0]

Being casterated would cure your acne. Going on a drug that blocked all your androgens would cure your acne. Just because something cures your acne doesn't mean its in your best interest. There is a paper of an autopsy of 3 innuits from thousands of years ago that were frozen at death and pathology preserved. They autopsied them and they all had some serious issues(bad blockages of arteries, and severe osteoperosis) they were all eating the most pristine low carb diet you could imagine everything wild caught and fresh...

please link this study

[Quetzl1]

I'll just jump in here and add that if you're having a problem with carbs in general it could point to some form of bacterial dysbiosis - essentially, the sugars are feeding harmful bacteria instead of helpful. If you notice a sudden increase in acne 4-6 hours after eating, this may very well be the problem.

[Omnivium]

If you have insulin resistance, you could try supplements like chromium or cinnamon. You could try probiotics also. I see the theory on here all the time that carbs "feed bad bacteria," and who knows, it could be true.

[strax]

The problem I have with carbs vs fat is that the more fat you eat the harder it is for your body to use carbs. So if you go high fat you have to stay on that, i'd rather not stay on that for the rest of my life.

If you have insulin resistance, you could try supplements like chromium or cinnamon. You could try probiotics also. I see the theory on here all the time that carbs "feed bad bacteria," and who knows, it could be true.

I read that too on message boards. All I've read from scientific studies is that fiber rich carbs contribute to the healthy flora.

[Ind1g0]

I'll just jump in here and add that if you're having a problem with carbs in general it could point to some form of bacterial dysbiosis - essentially, the sugars are feeding harmful bacteria instead of helpful. If you notice a sudden increase in acne 4-6 hours after eating, this may very well be the problem.

I'd like to hear more about this bacterial dysbiosis, its a new term for me.

[Quetzl1]

I'll just jump in here and add that if you're having a problem with carbs in general it could point to some form of bacterial dysbiosis - essentially, the sugars are feeding harmful bacteria instead of helpful. If you notice a sudden increase in acne 4-6 hours after eating, this may very well be the problem.

I'd like to hear more about this bacterial dysbiosis, its a new term for me.

Soo sometimes with bad diet/other factors (can inherit imbalanced bacteria from your mom), the makeup of microorganisms in the lower digestive tract can become skewed and harmful organisms can overgrow. One example of this is candida (yeast, less prevalent than some people think...), another might be, say, C. freundii (bacteria, normal in small amounts, bad in large amounts). These "bad" microorganisms are considered to be "bad" because they can sometimes crowd out other microorganisms that aid digestion of fibers and other foods that remain undigested from the small intestine. They can also release endotoxins (when they die) and exotoxins (while they're alive) that can potentially be absorbed into the bloodstream and cause an immune response (an example is the toxin made by some strains of E. coli that leads to diarrhea - probably not absorbed into bloodstream but it stands to reason that some can, especially with a damage mucosal lining caused by these toxins in the first place).

Provoking an immune response is never a good thing, obviously, and in the case of endo/exotoxins is probably very similar to responses seen in wheat (or other food) sensitive individuals, since the immune system is simply responding to things that shouldn't be in the blood. In this way, acne can happen.

Now, what you feed your microorganisms matters. Different microorganisms eat different things. Yeasts like monosaccharides. Aerobic bacteria like disaccharides and starches. Anaerobic bacteria like fiber. All 3 types normally inhabit the digestive tract, but their quantities are carefully controlled by the immune system and competing microorganisms (and food availability). All 3 types can be problematic, but by trial and error it might be possible to determine what's going on. For example, if you break out from rice but not honey, it's probably an aerobic bacteria.

Many people tend to see breakouts when they eat a piece of cake, and assume that sugar is the problem. Or eat ice cream, and think they are sensitive to dairy. But it's important to remember that not all sugars are created equal.

[Ind1g0]

I'll just jump in here and add that if you're having a problem with carbs in general it could point to some form of bacterial dysbiosis - essentially, the sugars are feeding harmful bacteria instead of helpful. If you notice a sudden increase in acne 4-6 hours after eating, this may very well be the problem.

I'd like to hear more about this bacterial dysbiosis, its a new term for me.

Soo sometimes with bad diet/other factors (can inherit imbalanced bacteria from your mom), the makeup of microorganisms in the lower digestive tract can become skewed and harmful organisms can overgrow. One example of this is candida (yeast, less prevalent than some people think...), another might be, say, C. freundii (bacteria, normal in small amounts, bad in large amounts). These "bad" microorganisms are considered to be "bad" because they can sometimes crowd out other microorganisms that aid digestion of fibers and other foods that remain undigested from the small intestine. They can also release endotoxins (when they die) and exotoxins (while they're alive) that can potentially be absorbed into the bloodstream and cause an immune response (an example is the toxin made by some strains of E. coli that leads to diarrhea - probably not absorbed into bloodstream but it stands to reason that some can, especially with a damage mucosal lining caused by these toxins in the first place).

Provoking an immune response is never a good thing, obviously, and in the case of endo/exotoxins is probably very similar to responses seen in wheat (or other food) sensitive individuals, since the immune system is simply responding to things that shouldn't be in the blood. In this way, acne can happen.

Now, what you feed your microorganisms matters. Different microorganisms eat different things. Yeasts like monosaccharides. Aerobic bacteria like disaccharides and starches. Anaerobic bacteria like fiber. All 3 types normally inhabit the digestive tract, but their quantities are carefully controlled by the immune system and competing microorganisms (and food availability). All 3 types can be problematic, but by trial and error it might be possible to determine what's going on. For example, if you break out from rice but not honey, it's probably an aerobic bacteria.

Many people tend to see breakouts when they eat a piece of cake, and assume that sugar is the problem. Or eat ice cream, and think they are sensitive to dairy. But it's important to remember that not all sugars are created equal.

this was all extremely interesting. Thank you for the well written and informative post. Very thorough. So where can I go to get a list of foods and products that "feed" each type of bacteria, so that I can get a better idea for what I can do for trial and error elimination in my diet. I have gone paleo, but I still break out (within a few hours) after eating certain meals and I can never pinpoint what I did wrong. Also, you said that this dysbiosis problem could make you break out in a few hours like I do- why is that? Would a probiotic help or hinder me???

[Quetzl1]

Breaking out in a few hours could be one of two things - either a delayed hypersensitivity reaction (less likely due to consistent timing) or a surge in bacterial populations (and thus toxins) as your meal reaches the large intestine (where almost all the bacteria are, 4-6 hours). The earlier end of this timescale indicates aerobic bacteria (first part of large intestine is where most of the oxygen is, and as it gets metabolized the colon becomes increasingly anaerobic). Breaking out later or overnight is more suggestive of anaerobic bacteria.

As for a list of foods, I'm not sure I can help you there. But since pretty much every food is made of components from 3-10 general categories (sugar/fat/protein, then divide sugar into starch/simple/fiber) you can sort of gauge what might be causing the problem by composition.

But again this might not be the problem. If you're doing strict paleo, with no starches, and you break out from eating citrus or strawberries, but not honey or blueberries, that's strongly indicative of a food sensitivity. If you break out from blueberries, and slightly more from bananas, and even more from honey, that indicates blood sugar problems (honey is the best indicator of blood sugar problems because it's almost all monosaccharides, thus is very quickly absorbed and causes a spike in blood sugar if taken alone). What might be helpful would be to make some sort of food log - write down what you ate and when, and then report any breakouts and their time of day. If you think you find a culprit, test it by eating it alone, without anything else. If there's no connection after that, the problem may be elsewhere, such as hormonal imbalances (especially that time of month if female), or an actual topical infection.

About probiotics - commercial probiotics I have found to be mostly useless (with the exception of mutaflor, which is illegal in the US because people don't like seeding the words E. coli). There are a lot of beneficial bacteria in fermented foods like yogurt (though I think fermented vegetables such as sauerkraut and kimchi are the healthiest because they have the highest diversity of strains and most vitamin-saturated carrying material). If you ferment your own 24-hour yogurt, you could be looking at upwards of 1 trillion live bacteria per cup. Probiotic pills aren't even comparable, with their ~20 million freeze dried bacteria, and the yogurt protects them as they pass through harsh conditions like stomach acid and bile.

Probiotics would generally help, but the difference probably wouldn't be that great. If there is dysbiosis involved, and it's happening because of an overgrowth of lactic acid bacteria, then probiotics would hurt. But this is rare.

[Ind1g0]

Once again, thanks and great info. You should post on the board more, you seem to know quite a bit.

[dejaclairevoyant]

The problem I have with carbs vs fat is that the more fat you eat the harder it is for your body to use carbs. So if you go high fat you have to stay on that, i'd rather not stay on that for the rest of my life.

If you have insulin resistance, you could try supplements like chromium or cinnamon. You could try probiotics also. I see the theory on here all the time that carbs "feed bad bacteria," and who knows, it could be true.

I read that too on message boards. All I've read from scientific studies is that fiber rich carbs contribute to the healthy flora.

I believe that they probably do--IF you don't already have a destroyed gut that is leaking and overgrown with all of the bad stuff.