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#21 Julisss

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 02:20 AM

And how about combining Spiro and Saw palmetto? Do they interact in any way - except making each other's effect stronger?

#22 chelslaw

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:45 PM

hmm. no idea. best to talk to your doctor about that.

#23 acneisnobueno

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:32 AM

Hey everyone i just bought some saw palmetto today hoping itll help what i feel is my hormonal acne covering my face getting worse everyday. Im at home right now depressed, dont wanna leave my house.

I took the plan B pill, about i believe a month or so ago im thinking maybe this threw my homornes out of whack. Will palmetto help or is it going to make everything worse?

Would hormonal acne be the cause? I had two periods in december which was odd
That has never really happened before please help me, I cant afford a derm at this time i have no insurence.

#24 Know Hope

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:45 AM

Hey everyone, I forgot about this thread. Here is what I found out about Saw Palmetto - any drug or herb that affects one set of hormones will have impact on the others and it can increase estrogen: http://answers.yahoo...17072631AAyC1Pk

High testosterone and estrogen dominance can cause acne. So I was right, Saw Palmetto was helping and hurting me at the same time - it was blocking the testosterone from turning into DHT so instead it was turning into estrogen which led to estrogen dominance which explains why I was breaking out after my period and the crazy anxiety and panic attacks. (This is my theory, anyway. Really no one knows exactly what is going on with these herbs and EVERYONE reacts differently - this is just what happened with me).


An herbalist I am seeing recommends that saw palmetto be taken with something to counter its effects and now I'm on a tincture of 1 part saw palmetto, 1 part peony, 1 part licorice and 2 parts chasteberry (vitex). Chasteberry is supposed to naturally balance your estrogen and progesterone. So far so good - I still broke a bit leading up to my period, but it wasn't severe. The oilyness has gone done quite a bit, but hands down the best thing about it is my anxiety and depression has gone way down too. And no sore boobs or cramps leading up to my period! She also recommended chromium to help with insulin imbalance and that is also good for depression. My blog has all the details - although I've stopped updating it.

I've heard that vitex works for a while and then stops working but I'm guessing it's another herb that needs to be taken with something (like saw p) to keep it balanced. This is a complex subject - good luck to all of you!

Anyway, talk to an herbalist and see if they can make up a tincture for you.

#25 Green Gables

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:38 PM

Here is the difference between spiro and saw palmetto:

Spiro mutes the androgen receptor and DIRECTLY increases estrogen.
Spiro is about a million times stronger than saw palmetto. I don't actually know how much, but saw palmetto is a drop in the bucket compared to Spiro.

Saw palmetto mutes androgen receptors. I don't think this makes testosterone more likely to convert into estrogen. Until I see some hard data on that, I'll treat it as speculation.

Remember that progesterone is the often forgotten yet important hormone. Progesterone is a regulator. It regulates both estrogen and testosterone. You can have testosterone and/or estrogen level problems if you are low on progesterone.

Edited by Green Gables, 04 January 2013 - 05:49 PM.


#26 schnickelfritz

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:42 PM

I am a pharmacist with hormonal acne. I have tried everything including accutane, spironolactone, all the topicals, all the antibiotics, fish oils, probiotics, and even levulinic acid and blue light. I have been taking saw palmetto for 3 days now and my skin looks fantastic! I am taking 360 mg daily in the morning. I notice my oily-ness dissappear right after I take it, and I stay less oily throughout the day. My acne has decreased by about 50% in 3 days. No more deep oily pimples, and a lot less new pimples. Will continue to post about my progress. I am also taking 25 mg of spironolactone a day, and have been taking it for about a year with declining benefit.

Edited by schnickelfritz, 18 January 2013 - 07:43 PM.


#27 Know Hope

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:01 PM

Here is the difference between spiro and saw palmetto:

Spiro mutes the androgen receptor and DIRECTLY increases estrogen.
Spiro is about a million times stronger than saw palmetto. I don't actually know how much, but saw palmetto is a drop in the bucket compared to Spiro.

Saw palmetto mutes androgen receptors. I don't think this makes testosterone more likely to convert into estrogen. Until I see some hard data on that, I'll treat it as speculation.

Remember that progesterone is the often forgotten yet important hormone. Progesterone is a regulator. It regulates both estrogen and testosterone. You can have testosterone and/or estrogen level problems if you are low on progesterone.

 

I'm curious what research you've read up on saw palmetto and its effect on women with acne.  Also, have you ever tried saw palmetto?

 

I think saw palmetto is great but it just needs to be taken with something else to counter effect any estrogen/progesterone imbalances which is why my natural health practitioner recommended a tincture that includes saw palmetto plus vitex/chasteberry, licorice and peony.  I agree that progesterone levels are extremely important - not just for acne but for your mental health.  What I'm suggesting - based on my own experience with saw palmetto and my own research - is that saw palmetto increases estrogen, causing an estrogen dominance and an imbalance of the all important progesterone.

 

But try googling "does saw palmetto block estrogen" and you'll find that some people believe it blocks it.  So no one really knows and besides, I'm sure we all react differently to these herbs. 

 

You've obviously put a lot of effort into your research and you're all over this site with your advice - but please just consider that you don't know what saw palmetto does to people and you could be causing harm by advising people to take more saw palmetto or supplement with different types of anti-androgens.   You said so yourself that the estrogen/progesterone balance is another big issue.    And if it makes sense to you that spiro increases estrogen, why wouldn't saw palmetto also increase it, albeit at a slower pace?  

 

Saw palmetto on its own worked great for me for a few months then out of nowhere I got a huge flare up AFTER my period had already started - when my estrogen levels start to go up and when I normally have nice skin.  My estrogen levels must have been too high already.

 

Anyway, if people want to experiment and use saw palmetto or spiro or any anti-androgen on its own, by all means go for it.  If it stops working, consider an imbalance is going on and don't think the answer is just to take more anti-androgens.



#28 chelslaw

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

has anyone effectively tapered off of saw p and stayed clear or is this a lifetime committment?

 

ive been taking it for 4 months now, and it (along with going gluten free) have cleared me up.

 

i took 480mg total daily for 2 months, then 320mg daily for a month and now down to 160mg and just got my first breakout in 3 months (not a cyst thankfully but inflammed whitehead)

 

thinking myabe 320mg is needed for me.



#29 Green Gables

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:01 PM

has anyone effectively tapered off of saw p and stayed clear or is this a lifetime committment?

 

ive been taking it for 4 months now, and it (along with going gluten free) have cleared me up.

 

i took 480mg total daily for 2 months, then 320mg daily for a month and now down to 160mg and just got my first breakout in 3 months (not a cyst thankfully but inflammed whitehead)

 

thinking myabe 320mg is needed for me.

 

Most people with hormonal issues must commit to some form of hormonal treatment for the rest of their lives.

 

It's like having a slow metabolism...it doesn't matter how long you eat healthy and exercise, as soon as you get back into bad habits your body and healthy will show it. You can't expect to maintain clear skin when you allow your body to revert back to its old hormonal state. Unfortunately our bodies do not seem to be able to "learn" a new hormonal state...it will keep reverting back to its natural one.


Edited by Green Gables, 11 February 2013 - 01:03 PM.


#30 WishClean

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:15 AM

Bump on this thread. I'm currently taking saw palmetto, and I was wondering if I should be worried about estrogen dominance. Here is an excerpt from an article I read:

It is important to understand that saw palmetto (and potentially any herb that lowers blood levels of testosterone) will cause your androgens to be converted to estrogens. This increase in estrogens can further complicate your PCOS, and risk your long term health. When you slow down the conversion of testosterone to DHT, you leave more testosterone to be converted to estrone. In other words, you may be trading one problem in this picture for another. The risks of elevated estrogens are increased if you are also not ovulating, meaning you are not producing enough progesterone to balance the estrogen effect. This increases your risk of female cancers as well as worsening premenstrual experiences like breast tenderness, belly bloating and weight gain.

 

Source: http://www.drnandunne.com/?p=1808

 

I thought saw palmetto does not impact estrogen directly. I would rather not take saw palmetto in conjunction with another herb (such as vitex) in case of any interactions. What are your thoughts on this?



#31 Gladiatoro

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:01 PM

I took Saw Palmetto for a few months and noticed my oily skin became a lot less oily , so yes it worked for me I was taking 480 mg per day , as a bonus I noticed a lot of hair growth and I seemed to be more hungry than usual , again SP may not work for everyone but it works for me , I also had NO negative side effects to speak of , I think I will take it again in the future if my skin gets too oily again.   (=



#32 mystory

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 03:02 PM

Has anyone taken Saw Palmetto for a long time, i.e. years? Is it safe to do so?

I'm obviosuly looking for a long term solution!

 

Also, do you think your acne got worse AFTER stopping the Saw Palmetto? Like your body got used to it and started producing even more androgens to counter-act?

 

I'm asking because in my case, stopping Diane 35 made my acne so much worse than it ever was before. 15+ months later, still suffering from this horrible pill's damage to my system. I don't want a repeat with SP!!!


Edited by mystory, 16 March 2013 - 03:03 PM.


#33 camaroz28

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:57 PM

Has anyone taken Saw Palmetto for a long time, i.e. years? Is it safe to do so?

I'm obviosuly looking for a long term solution!

 

Also, do you think your acne got worse AFTER stopping the Saw Palmetto? Like your body got used to it and started producing even more androgens to counter-act?

 

I'm asking because in my case, stopping Diane 35 made my acne so much worse than it ever was before. 15+ months later, still suffering from this horrible pill's damage to my system. I don't want a repeat with SP!!!

It is purported to be safe by (some) doctors, herbalists and other tiddly winkers on the net; but, in reality it is an anti-androgen. Look-up Saw Palmetto sides at Propeciahelp.com. You need to take it indefinitely for results; it will not cure acne (oily skin) or regrow hair after short stints as some here have argued.


Edited by camaroz28, 16 March 2013 - 07:59 PM.


#34 mystory

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 09:33 PM

Has anyone taken Saw Palmetto for a long time, i.e. years? Is it safe to do so?

I'm obviosuly looking for a long term solution!

 

Also, do you think your acne got worse AFTER stopping the Saw Palmetto? Like your body got used to it and started producing even more androgens to counter-act?

 

I'm asking because in my case, stopping Diane 35 made my acne so much worse than it ever was before. 15+ months later, still suffering from this horrible pill's damage to my system. I don't want a repeat with SP!!!

It is purported to be safe by (some) doctors, herbalists and other tiddly winkers on the net; but, in reality it is an anti-androgen. Look-up Saw Palmetto sides at Propeciahelp.com. You need to take it indefinitely for results; it will not cure acne (oily skin) or regrow hair after short stints as some here have argued.

 

Thanks for that. After doing a lot of research online, I realised Saw Palmetto is another potentially dangerous supplement, with unknown long-term side effects.

It's effects have never been studied in women, and I'm not willing to be a guinea pig for yet another drug (thanks a lot Diane 35!!!). 

We tend to think that herbal supplements are safe because they are natural, but that is definitly a misconception. This is potent stuff and could potentially cause un-repairable harm in my system.

I'll think twice before getting all excited and running out to get yet another disapointing supplement. *SIGH*



#35 WishClean

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 09:39 PM

Hey everyone, I forgot about this thread. Here is what I found out about Saw Palmetto - any drug or herb that affects one set of hormones will have impact on the others and it can increase estrogen: http://answers.yahoo...17072631AAyC1Pk

High testosterone and estrogen dominance can cause acne. So I was right, Saw Palmetto was helping and hurting me at the same time - it was blocking the testosterone from turning into DHT so instead it was turning into estrogen which led to estrogen dominance which explains why I was breaking out after my period and the crazy anxiety and panic attacks. (This is my theory, anyway. Really no one knows exactly what is going on with these herbs and EVERYONE reacts differently - this is just what happened with me).


An herbalist I am seeing recommends that saw palmetto be taken with something to counter its effects and now I'm on a tincture of 1 part saw palmetto, 1 part peony, 1 part licorice and 2 parts chasteberry (vitex). Chasteberry is supposed to naturally balance your estrogen and progesterone. So far so good - I still broke a bit leading up to my period, but it wasn't severe. The oilyness has gone done quite a bit, but hands down the best thing about it is my anxiety and depression has gone way down too. And no sore boobs or cramps leading up to my period! She also recommended chromium to help with insulin imbalance and that is also good for depression. My blog has all the details - although I've stopped updating it.

I've heard that vitex works for a while and then stops working but I'm guessing it's another herb that needs to be taken with something (like saw p) to keep it balanced. This is a complex subject - good luck to all of you!

Anyway, talk to an herbalist and see if they can make up a tincture for you.

 

I agree with your approach. Have you had success with the tincture? Vitex worked for me in the past, but then I started getting more facial & body hair so I'm guessing it increased androgens in my body.  I read that vitex might interact with saw palmetto, though, that's why I was hesitant to take both at the same time. Did your herbalist ask you to do a hormone test before making a tincture for you?



#36 Know Hope

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:33 PM

Hey everyone, I forgot about this thread. Here is what I found out about Saw Palmetto - any drug or herb that affects one set of hormones will have impact on the others and it can increase estrogen: http://answers.yahoo...17072631AAyC1Pk

High testosterone and estrogen dominance can cause acne. So I was right, Saw Palmetto was helping and hurting me at the same time - it was blocking the testosterone from turning into DHT so instead it was turning into estrogen which led to estrogen dominance which explains why I was breaking out after my period and the crazy anxiety and panic attacks. (This is my theory, anyway. Really no one knows exactly what is going on with these herbs and EVERYONE reacts differently - this is just what happened with me).


An herbalist I am seeing recommends that saw palmetto be taken with something to counter its effects and now I'm on a tincture of 1 part saw palmetto, 1 part peony, 1 part licorice and 2 parts chasteberry (vitex). Chasteberry is supposed to naturally balance your estrogen and progesterone. So far so good - I still broke a bit leading up to my period, but it wasn't severe. The oilyness has gone done quite a bit, but hands down the best thing about it is my anxiety and depression has gone way down too. And no sore boobs or cramps leading up to my period! She also recommended chromium to help with insulin imbalance and that is also good for depression. My blog has all the details - although I've stopped updating it.

I've heard that vitex works for a while and then stops working but I'm guessing it's another herb that needs to be taken with something (like saw p) to keep it balanced. This is a complex subject - good luck to all of you!

Anyway, talk to an herbalist and see if they can make up a tincture for you.

 

I agree with your approach. Have you had success with the tincture? Vitex worked for me in the past, but then I started getting more facial & body hair so I'm guessing it increased androgens in my body.  I read that vitex might interact with saw palmetto, though, that's why I was hesitant to take both at the same time. Did your herbalist ask you to do a hormone test before making a tincture for you?

I don't know if this is true, but I've heard progesterone is a precursor to the other hormones, including testosterone, so maybe vitex was fixing your estrogen dominance but also adding more free testosterone to your body?

 

I've been on this saw palmetto/vitex tincture since December and I have mixed feelings about it.  My skin is looking pretty great the two weeks after my period starts but I am still getting hormonal acne, like clock work, two weeks before my period.  It's been pretty mild except for a cyst I got on my cheek a month ago that is still lingering.  And I've noticed I'm getting more pimples on my chin before my period every month, which isn't usually my big problem area. 

 

The best thing is what it has done for my anxiety and depression and PMS issues like cramps and sore breasts.  I'm also not touching my face as much because I don't feel as anxious - not sure if that's the tincture or the combination of things that I am doing (I'm also taking chromium which is said to help with depression). So for those reason alone, I love it and will continue using it.

 

The herbalist didn't think a saliva hormone test was worth the cost.  I don't have excess body hair or other classic signs of PCOS, so it's likely I'm just very sensitive to androgens.  

 

I'm also alternating with Dan's BP and Paula's choice 2% BHA and am only using retin a for fixing hyperpigmentation the two weeks my skin is not as sensitive.  It's not perfect, but with time, I can see how it will get a lot better.  

 

Another thing to try that my herbalist recommended is that I take magnesium, b6 and zinc the week before my period.  That's supposed to help with PMS acne specifically.  I haven't consistently done this because I've heard that b6 also causes acne in some people, but I'll try it now that my period is coming up.  

 

I'm still researching this and will dump everything I learn into my blog.  I am determined to defeat my hormonal acne!  Anyway, I was going to experiment with taking a saw palmetto capsule in addition to the tincture for the two weeks leading up to my period.  I noticed right away that one 160 mg capsule did a better job of reducing my oil most of the day.  I like the idea of getting everything you need in a tincture, but it's hard to know exactly how much of each ingredient you're getting.   

 

I always ramble in these messages, but I really do think saw palmetto needs to be taken with vitex or something to regulate the progesterone and to make sure you are metabolizing your estrogen via your liver and bowels.   I also found Dr. Nan Dunne's website http://www.drnandunne.com/ and think there is a lot of helpful info there.  

 

Good luck!



#37 MissSac17

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:03 AM

Here is the difference between spiro and saw palmetto:Spiro mutes the androgen receptor and DIRECTLY increases estrogen.Spiro is about a million times stronger than saw palmetto. I don't actually know how much, but saw palmetto is a drop in the bucket compared to Spiro.Saw palmetto mutes androgen receptors. I don't think this makes testosterone more likely to convert into estrogen. Until I see some hard data on that, I'll treat it as speculation.Remember that progesterone is the often forgotten yet important hormone. Progesterone is a regulator. It regulates both estrogen and testosterone. You can have testosterone and/or estrogen level problems if you are low on progesterone.


So Spiro increases estrogen? Is it possible that one could therefore suffer estrogen dominance when taking Spiro?

Im wondering this because it would make a lot of sense as to what's happening with me the now. I haven't ovulated since being on Spiro and I have read that high estrogen levels can inhibit ovulation. I don't know how I could balance this out though and wonder if it is indact progesterone I need to heal my acne?

#38 tengtaylor

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:49 AM

If your acne is hormonal, such as those occurring around the jawline and chin, saw palmetto is a true helper! I actually came across trying Saw Palmetto when I found this article http://voices.yahoo....8381.html?cat=5

It didn't take much further convincing for me to try it out because I was pretty desperate lol. I know I can't speak for everyone, but I started 320mg per day about 4 months ago, and my face cleared up completely within a week! For the past month, I have been taking it every other day, and my face is still clear!!!

Since then, the only obstacle I had was actually finding a good moisturizer since I no longer need to soak my face in Dan's benzoyl treatment everyday. I have super sensitive skin, and every moisturizer or night cream I have tried so far have irritated my skin, either redness or itchiness! And yes, I have tried burt's bee and many other "natural" products from Whole Foods and as well as Dan's moisturizer. It's ridiculous...I finally have acne-free skin for the first time in my life and can't even show it off because of all the redness. So after a lot of thinking, I decided throw away all the moisturizers that I have bought...and realized my skin doesn't need all that crap. So I decided to make something simple on my own...I mixed Dan's Jojoba oil with Aloe Vera (from trader joe's) and used it before bed everyday. What a difference, it's been two weeks, my skin is clear and smooth, I can't even see my pores anymore! Sometimes, less is more, our skin has an amazing ability to renew cells on its own while we sleep, we do not need moisturizers that has more than 10 ingredients...natural or not. I might add beeswax to the mixture since Albuquerque is super dry and gets cold and windy even in April...what the heck? So I'm excited to try that out, I saw tutorials on melting beeswax and making home-made lotions on youtube...I love cooking, so this is totally right up my alley lol, can't wait. I'll keep you guys posted!



#39 mikito

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 04:33 AM

How about combining Diane35 and saw palmetto?

 

I have been taking Diane35 for three years, and before Diane 35 I had terrible cystic acne, huge pimples and very painful. After 6 month taking Diane 35  I still have acne, but not so painful and  not so terrible.

 

Three months ago, I started taking zinc gluconate 30 mg ( besides Diane35), and it really helped.But I have never been acne- free, and I have break-outs with my period ( when I don,t take Diane 35) and the days after my period.

 

 And I am considering upping my doses of zinc (45 mg) or taking saw palmetto, but perhaps it,s too dangerous to combine diane35  and saw palmetto. What do you think?

 

Mystory, why did you go off diane35?



#40 Lady_C

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 02:24 PM

has anyone effectively tapered off of saw p and stayed clear or is this a lifetime committment?

 

ive been taking it for 4 months now, and it (along with going gluten free) have cleared me up.

 

i took 480mg total daily for 2 months, then 320mg daily for a month and now down to 160mg and just got my first breakout in 3 months (not a cyst thankfully but inflammed whitehead)

 

thinking myabe 320mg is needed for me.

 

 

Are you still taking Saw palmetto? I'm on my 5th day of SP...not much change thus far but I'm determined to give it afew months. If it's similar to spiro it should take some months to see results, so i'll be patient.

 

Is anyone else taking sp?