14 replies to this topic

[diggydnk]

Firstly not everyones skin is oily for the same reason, It could be genetics, or it could be self induced.
If its genetics, there isnt much you can do, im sorry, but the good news is for most people its self induced.
If you use harsh products on your skin, then is most likely self induced and this is why.

A pH level is a chemist's term meaning "Potential of Hydrogen" and is used to measure the degree of acidity or alkalinity. A pH is measured on a scale ranging from 0 to 14 where the centre of the scale (7) is neutral (neither acid nor alkaline). A reading below 7 indicates that the substance being measured is acidic and above 7 is alkaline.

In this topic we will be referring to the pH of the epidermis. Normal skin pH is somewhat acidic and in the range of 4.4 to 5.5 It varies from one part of the body to another and, in general, the pH of a man's skin is lower (more acidic) than a woman's.

The outer layer of skin has a protective layer made up of acidic oils produced by natural oil secretions and perspiration. This protective layer is called our Acid Mantle. Our Acid Mantle is what protects our skin from the invasion of bacteria; as bacteria will only grow in an alkaline environment.

When our Acid Mantle is damaged we are prone not only to bacteria invasions, but dehydration and dryness on the skin; which in turn can lead to an overproduction of oil follow (as the skin is trying its hardest to repairs the Acid Mantle as quickly as possible).

The outer layer of skin cells are made of keratin, a very hard protein. Keratin must be kept at an acidic pH to maintain its hardness by keeping the protective proteins tightly bound together. An alkaline pH product will soften and loosen the fibres of keratin and create gaps in the protective covering. This allows more allergens, irritants, bacteria and viruses to penetrate into the skin.

A common mistake that a lot of people make when it come to there skincare routine is choosing the wrong products for their skin. This occurs because we perceive the information on TV/ Newspaper/ Magazine/ Radio marketing to be giving us the correct facts about “there” product. When in actually fact they are telling us exactly what we want to know; just not all of the information we need.

We want to remove excess oil; this is the oil that makes your skin shiny, a waxy layer over your forehead, nose, and chin. But it is important to be careful with the type of cleanser you use; remembering that we want to use something that is slightly acidic, as this will not only help to cleanse the skin thoroughly but will help to keep your acid mantle in tack.

A mild soap sold commercially often has an alkaline pH (9.5-11.0), and raises the pH of the skin, thus undermining your skin's natural defences. These soaps also extract protective lipids (fats) from the skin. The high level of synthetic detergents found in these soaps strips away the mantle and loosen the protective keratin proteins.

People with skin irritations tend to have a more alkaline pH, and washing with soap can increase the alkaline state; as they continue to use their soap cleansers it will increase the alkaline on the skin making it even more vulnerable to irritation and infection.

This is most commonly seen in a acne skin and skins with high allergies like eczema and psoriasis skin problems become more severe when the skin becomes more alkaline.

Adequate skin cell replacement is crucial to maintaining the skin barrier. It is important to increase our skin cell renewal to keep a constant flow of cells moving outward in the skin and a fresh supply of outer skin cells to replace older and damaged skin cells.

• repair of the acid mantle – this is cricital to stop moisture loss from the skin. At the same time as allowing moisture loss which creates dry areas of skin, poor acid mantle protection will actually stimulate excess oil production in other areas leading to both oily and dry skin at the same time.
• internal nutrition – are there any nutritional issues that are contributing to this condition
• reducing congestion – congestion will contribute to further breakouts
• prioritising treatment – in this case, balancing the acid mantle and correcting nutritional imbalances will have a positive effect on breakouts. This is the priority. Internal nutrition and managing other factors such as hormones, diet, stress etc will help to minimise breakouts as well.

There are many ways to restore your skins PH and protect your acid mantle. The method I used was apple cider vinegar and vitamin E oil with aloe vera gel. Also remember results with most likely take weeks to months. Another thing to note most dermatologists dont have your best intrests in mind, they are quick to prescribe drugs and topicals pushed by pharmaceutical companies. They want you in and out, remember to 99% them it is just a business and your just a client.
I hope this helps.

[Starlitskies]

Good post! Knowledgeable, readable, and great grammar! Kudos More posts need to be like this on the org!

You also have rekindled my interest in using apple cider vinegar as a toner. However, my face is finally starting to improve, so I'm hesitant to introduce any new products for fear of it causing a set back. Decisions, decisions...

[diggydnk]

http://www.makeupall...0/ItemID=52238/

read the reviews here about ACV. There is almost 100% not just positive reviews, but 5 star reviews of how it helped them.

[TheSavyBanana]

So if I used a cleanser with a pH of 5.5, do you think it would restore my skin's pH and acid mantle?

[diggydnk]

So if I used a cleanser with a pH of 5.5, do you think it would restore my skin's pH and acid mantle?

It will help, but you are best using a toner to restore your pH. Within days of using ACV as a toner I noticed a difference, whereas using a cleanser it took months for me to notice a difference in oil production.

Another note, I saw about 5-6 derms about what was going on with my skin, and none of them did anything that helped me with my skin. The oil production was insane and it only started after I was using harsh products and washing my skin 2-3 times per day. They all told me these things had nothing to do with the oil production, but being over the age of 25 and the fact it only started after being harsh on my skin, logic told me otherwise. Either one of two things were going on, they were poorly educated or they played dumb so I would have to keep coming back and using there rX products, which every single thing they gave me didn't help at all and made the oil worse because it irritated my skin. They also told me this wasn't possible but clearly it was.

I never took accutane because I know what overdosing on vitamins does to the body. Only after talking with estheticians and doing my own research online I learned of the acid mantle and then things started to make sense. I started doing the things to restore my acid mantle, and my skin got better. Its pretty sad when people who go to school for years either don't know or are just using you to make money, and the real people who care are the ones making a lot less.

Another thing you commonly see is that people use an over the counter medication, like BP, or one of the many rX gels or creams, they work for a little while, then stop working. This is because these products work by drying out your skin, and weakening your acid made. The effect of this is short term results but long term problems. This is a marketing ploy, it keeps you buying their products. They know exactly what they are doing to you, that's the society we have today.

Lastly, please don't take my word for it. Do your own research, educate your self. Knowledge truly is power.

[Starlitskies]

So ACV helped a lot? I just started using it yesterday... But I'm super paranoid that using a new product will break my face out even worse :/ My old toner worked well enough, but it's too spendy to keep re-purchasing. I'm using undiluted ACV and I guess I'm just too impatient to wait for the results! On top of that I just started working out and also started using BC. So my face is bound to freak out. But all of the things I changed supposedly can help acne... Maybe I'll finally get clear?

[6N4M]

That's perfectly fine to suggest that pH/the acid mantle may play a role in how oily/shiny your skin appears. It's possible the pH/acid mantle could play a role in your skin's rention of oil, the way in which light is reflected off your skin, etc.

But neither factors affect oil production. Nothing alters oil production short of drugs that affect hormone levels (accutane).

And I don't think your doctors were trying to deceive you or were poorly educated.

Edited by 6N4M, 06 July 2012 - 02:24 AM.

[TheTruthHurts]

Out of the 3 products you use, ( apple cider vinager, vitamin E and aloe vera) which do you believe works best for you? Like which one do you think is giving you the best results and actually doing the trick? I heard the molecular size of vitamin E is quite large and that it may clog pores but I'm not sure if that is true or not.

[TheTruthHurts]

Firstly not everyones skin is oily for the same reason, It could be genetics, or it could be self induced.
If its genetics, there isnt much you can do, im sorry, but the good news is for most people its self induced.
If you use harsh products on your skin, then is most likely self induced and this is why.

A pH level is a chemist's term meaning "Potential of Hydrogen" and is used to measure the degree of acidity or alkalinity. A pH is measured on a scale ranging from 0 to 14 where the centre of the scale (7) is neutral (neither acid nor alkaline). A reading below 7 indicates that the substance being measured is acidic and above 7 is alkaline.

In this topic we will be referring to the pH of the epidermis. Normal skin pH is somewhat acidic and in the range of 4.4 to 5.5 It varies from one part of the body to another and, in general, the pH of a man's skin is lower (more acidic) than a woman's.

The outer layer of skin has a protective layer made up of acidic oils produced by natural oil secretions and perspiration. This protective layer is called our Acid Mantle. Our Acid Mantle is what protects our skin from the invasion of bacteria; as bacteria will only grow in an alkaline environment.

When our Acid Mantle is damaged we are prone not only to bacteria invasions, but dehydration and dryness on the skin; which in turn can lead to an overproduction of oil follow (as the skin is trying its hardest to repairs the Acid Mantle as quickly as possible).

The outer layer of skin cells are made of keratin, a very hard protein. Keratin must be kept at an acidic pH to maintain its hardness by keeping the protective proteins tightly bound together. An alkaline pH product will soften and loosen the fibres of keratin and create gaps in the protective covering. This allows more allergens, irritants, bacteria and viruses to penetrate into the skin.

A common mistake that a lot of people make when it come to there skincare routine is choosing the wrong products for their skin. This occurs because we perceive the information on TV/ Newspaper/ Magazine/ Radio marketing to be giving us the correct facts about “there” product. When in actually fact they are telling us exactly what we want to know; just not all of the information we need.

We want to remove excess oil; this is the oil that makes your skin shiny, a waxy layer over your forehead, nose, and chin. But it is important to be careful with the type of cleanser you use; remembering that we want to use something that is slightly acidic, as this will not only help to cleanse the skin thoroughly but will help to keep your acid mantle in tack.

A mild soap sold commercially often has an alkaline pH (9.5-11.0), and raises the pH of the skin, thus undermining your skin's natural defences. These soaps also extract protective lipids (fats) from the skin. The high level of synthetic detergents found in these soaps strips away the mantle and loosen the protective keratin proteins.

People with skin irritations tend to have a more alkaline pH, and washing with soap can increase the alkaline state; as they continue to use their soap cleansers it will increase the alkaline on the skin making it even more vulnerable to irritation and infection.

This is most commonly seen in a acne skin and skins with high allergies like eczema and psoriasis skin problems become more severe when the skin becomes more alkaline.

Adequate skin cell replacement is crucial to maintaining the skin barrier. It is important to increase our skin cell renewal to keep a constant flow of cells moving outward in the skin and a fresh supply of outer skin cells to replace older and damaged skin cells.

• repair of the acid mantle – this is cricital to stop moisture loss from the skin. At the same time as allowing moisture loss which creates dry areas of skin, poor acid mantle protection will actually stimulate excess oil production in other areas leading to both oily and dry skin at the same time.
• internal nutrition – are there any nutritional issues that are contributing to this condition
• reducing congestion – congestion will contribute to further breakouts
• prioritising treatment – in this case, balancing the acid mantle and correcting nutritional imbalances will have a positive effect on breakouts. This is the priority. Internal nutrition and managing other factors such as hormones, diet, stress etc will help to minimise breakouts as well.

There are many ways to restore your skins PH and protect your acid mantle. The method I used was apple cider vinegar and vitamin E oil with aloe vera gel. Also remember results with most likely take weeks to months. Another thing to note most dermatologists dont have your best intrests in mind, they are quick to prescribe drugs and topicals pushed by pharmaceutical companies. They want you in and out, remember to 99% them it is just a business and your just a client.
I hope this helps.

So any leads to my question above^? Basically to sum up, I'm wondering which out of the three would you recomend using andthat you believe is really doing thr trick? Between Aloe Vera, Honey and ACV?
Thanks!

[diggydnk]

Out of the 3 products you use, ( apple cider vinager, vitamin E and aloe vera) which do you believe works best for you? Like which one do you think is giving you the best results and actually doing the trick? I heard the molecular size of vitamin E is quite large and that it may clog pores but I'm not sure if that is true or not.

AVC had the most impact. You can use this alone in place of a cleanser. Start off with 5 parts water than 1 part ACV gradually increase to a 1:1 ratio.

That's perfectly fine to suggest that pH/the acid mantle may play a role in how oily/shiny your skin appears. It's possible the pH/acid mantle could play a role in your skin's rention of oil, the way in which light is reflected off your skin, etc.

But neither factors affect oil production. Nothing alters oil production short of drugs that affect hormone levels (accutane).

And I don't think your doctors were trying to deceive you or were poorly educated.

If thats the case why did I go 3 years without any results from going to dermatologists. Then within weeks of using ACV have the oil production almost stop completely. People like you are the reason others still suffer. The AVC didnt change the way light refracted off my skin, It nearly eliminated the oil production. As I stated in the beginning of my post, Some people are genetically predisposed to having overactive oil glands, and for those people, nothing is going to help short of accutane, but most people aren't in that situation.

[6N4M]

If thats the case why did I go 3 years without any results from going to dermatologists. Then within weeks of using ACV have the oil production almost stop completely.

...Through one of the mechanisms I just used as an example?

"It's possible the pH/acid mantle could play a role in your skin's rention of oil, the way in which light is reflected off your skin, etc."

If thats the case why did I go 3 years without any results from going to dermatologists. Then within weeks of using ACV have the oil production almost stop completely.

It's not unbelievable that your face was oily and then stopped being oily with the use of ACV. It just wasn't due to a change in oil production, it was another mechanism at work.

People like you are the reason others still suffer.

Hahaha.

Someone's testy!

The AVC didnt change the way light refracted off my skin, It nearly eliminated the oil production.

Then it might've had to do with the retention/absorption of the oil by your skin. Or some other mechanism I'm not aware of.

As I said in my previous post, your suggestion for this treatment is fine. But if it works, it doesn't work by changing oil production, it works in some other manner.

Which matters, because if your treatment does work, it's important to know how it works so we can make the method even more effective.

Edited by 6N4M, 11 July 2012 - 07:34 PM.

[diggydnk]

If thats the case why did I go 3 years without any results from going to dermatologists. Then within weeks of using ACV have the oil production almost stop completely.

...Through one of the mechanisms I just used as an example?

"It's possible the pH/acid mantle could play a role in your skin's rention of oil, the way in which light is reflected off your skin, etc."

If thats the case why did I go 3 years without any results from going to dermatologists. Then within weeks of using ACV have the oil production almost stop completely.

It's not unbelievable that your face was oily and then stopped being oily with the use of ACV. It just wasn't due to a change in oil production, it was another mechanism at work.

People like you are the reason others still suffer.

Hahaha.

Someone's testy!

The AVC didnt change the way light refracted off my skin, It nearly eliminated the oil production.

Then it might've had to do with the retention/absorption of the oil by your skin. Or some other mechanism I'm not aware of.

As I said in my previous post, your suggestion for this treatment is fine. But if it works, it doesn't work by changing oil production, it works in some other manner.

Which matters, because if your treatment does work, it's important to know how it works so we can make the method even more effective.

I'm testy because I listened to people like yours logic which only exacerbated the problem. The AVC helped restore the pH in my skin which in turn helped moisture retention which in turn reduced oil production. So yes AVC did reduce oil production. Maybe if you stop spouting unfounded logic and tried it, it might help you. Unless that is, your skin is oily due to genetics.

[6N4M]

I'm testy because I listened to people like yours logic which only exacerbated the problem. The AVC helped restore the pH in my skin which in turn helped moisture retention which in turn reduced oil production. So yes AVC did reduce oil production. Maybe if you stop spouting unfounded logic and tried it, it might help you. Unless that is, your skin is oily due to genetics.

Unfounded? You already read evidence for it from bryan, I'm sure.

It didn't reduce oil production. It acted via another mechanism. Why is that so hard to accept?

I am trying it, actually. For almost a week now.

I'm not honestly sure whether I've seen any results. My skin still appears to have quite a layer of greasy oil on it after a few hours.

[arqa22]

you can get fat

DHT causes oily skin

fat cells produce estrogen>the more fat>the more estrogen>the less DHT>less oily skin

[diggydnk]

I'm testy because I listened to people like yours logic which only exacerbated the problem. The AVC helped restore the pH in my skin which in turn helped moisture retention which in turn reduced oil production. So yes AVC did reduce oil production. Maybe if you stop spouting unfounded logic and tried it, it might help you. Unless that is, your skin is oily due to genetics.

Unfounded? You already read evidence for it from bryan, I'm sure.

It didn't reduce oil production. It acted via another mechanism. Why is that so hard to accept?

I am trying it, actually. For almost a week now.

I'm not honestly sure whether I've seen any results. My skin still appears to have quite a layer of greasy oil on it after a few hours.

bryan is one of those people that can be best described as "misery loves company". Most of what he says is inaccurate and based of inconclusive studies hes read.

I really don't care if you try this method or not. All I'm saying is that it worked for me, and worked for numerous others. If you actually read my first post it clearly says its not going to work for everyone. If you do try this method, use AVC with mother. I use Braggs. It can be purchased at many grocery stores in the health food section.

To better people ill tell you exactly what I do and don't do.

I started with 5 parts water 1 part AVC for 1 week.

Then moved to 3 parts water 1 part AVC.

I don't use any soap cleansers on my skin.

I used Vit e gel in the morning BEFORE I shower. Warm water not hot and rise off any excess.

I use AVC at night before sleep, on occasion I use it twice a day.

That routine gave me results in just a few weeks.