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Laser Treatments - Please Reply!

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Hey, this site is looking to be my only hope for some influential guidance through endless scar treatments. I have some money saved up though and I'm thinking about buying a laser treatment(s) for myself. I'm 18 and I have rolling scars on my cheeks but mostly boxcar scars.

I want to know which laser treatment is good and effective but one that won't leave me with burn marks.. I've seen a lot of mixed reviews on lasers in the past and I've actually seen burn marks on people who've done the treatment. I'm really scared of the outcome actually.

I'm thinking about going to south coast med spa for my treatment, and I think they only offer C02 laser treatment; I heard that it was the best.

I also read on their site that there is a very limited, if any, risk that is taken in the procedure. But I don't think I can believe that.

I'm also thinking about chemical peels but I think they might be to rough on my skin and have a higher chance of scaring it then the laser treatment.

Also I have acne still but its not as bad as before. After it clears up a little I want to go get my treatment done. Since I'm 18, how long should I wait? Can I do my treatment with active acne or am I putting myself at risk for burn marks?

Please help me! I'm lost. I can upload pictures if requested

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Desperately trying to turn the state of the Scar Forum around. But I'm just one person.

Occasionally I'll tell you to go to [link removed]. There is no affiliation, there is just simply too much misinformation about needling on this board (and internet in general)

Peer review or get the f*ck out! No folk remedies please.


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I would suggest posting a picture of your scars so we can be of better help. If you have active acne they may not decide to give you CO2 laser treatment unless you go on some antibiotics first to get the acne under control. Subcision is also an effective method of reducing rolling scarring and can be done with active acne.

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Seriously, forget lasers for scarring. They don't help much, if at all. They won't get rid of saucers or boxscars at all. You need subcision for saucers and probably excision for boxscars and then you can get laser to smooth it all out --- if you even need it. Also, subcision is less expensive.

You can't get lasers with active acne. You could scar more.


Please only PM me if it's something that cannot be talked about on the thread or is highly personal. This way, everyone benefits.


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Also, subcision is less expensive.

You can't get lasers with active acne. You could scar more.

This is what I'm afraid of so for sure be waiting at least another year. I don't know what subcision is but I read about it and it sounds painful and dangerous. They stick you to let the blood flow into the spot right?

I would suggest posting a picture of your scars so we can be of better help. Subcision is also an effective method of reducing rolling scarring and can be done with active acne.

Ok I can post pictures, they will be up soon. I'm hearing a lot about subcision so its gaining my interest, thanks. I'm still wondering how much the treatments go for though, I know lasers go for around 3k each.

>won't leave me with burn marks.

This is just a risk associated with lasers, no one can say for sure it's not going to burn you, but the risk isn't too high, it's mainly a loud minority. What's your skin type? That's a risk factor.

>C02 laser treatment

is not really helpful, it could mean several, phone up and ask what the laser they use is called.

You shouldn't treat while you still have active acne, not at all. badbad.

For your rolling scars you might want to consider subcision, and then Fraxel Re:Pair to finish off. Re:Pair for your boxcars too, obviously. 1 treatment is not enough, you will need several, so don't give up.

How severe are your scars? Objectively speaking, I mean.

thats funny that you say its mainly just the loud minority, you calmed my fears for the moment :). I hear that 1 treatment isn't enough and I'm willing to spend at least/most 9k$ on it if I see the slightest improvement from the first 3 months. Thats pretty much I'll I think is worth spending my money on.. besides rent and stuff. I don't care about where I live or what car I drive though if I can help my skin tbh. Actually I've never cars nor do I have many wants so it shouldn't be a problem getting several treatments. Will subscision really help though before laser? Or can laser do the same thing as subscision? I wish someone could take my place for figuring all this stuff out.. It feels like a lot of pressure and when I go through it, if it doesn't turn out good, I'll have to live with my decisions.

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>>>>I don't know what subcision is but I read about it and it sounds painful and dangerous. They stick you to let the blood flow into the spot right?>>

It's using a very fine needle to undermine the tethered down scar tissue so it lifts up to the level of normal skin. There are tons of threads on the scar subforum that you can read, with pics and personal experiences. I've heard it's not that painful and it's definitely not dangerous. The only danger is reaction to the local anesthetic or infection which you'd have with lasers as well.


Please only PM me if it's something that cannot be talked about on the thread or is highly personal. This way, everyone benefits.


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Desperately trying to turn the state of the Scar Forum around. But I'm just one person.

Occasionally I'll tell you to go to [link removed]. There is no affiliation, there is just simply too much misinformation about needling on this board (and internet in general)

Peer review or get the f*ck out! No folk remedies please.


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The only danger is reaction to the local anesthetic or infection

And nodules.

Will subscision really help though before laser? Or can laser do the same thing as subscision?

It can, yeah, I'm just a fan of both procedures, and there's nothing wrong with attacking something from 2 angles.

Seriously, forget lasers for scarring. They don't help much, if at all. They won't get rid of saucers or boxscars at all.

You're silly.

Yes, and nodules.

I'm silly? Go to the scar forum and see how many people had either no improvement from lasers, or worse -- they had permanent damage like more scarring, hyperpigmentation, fat loss etc.

I've only seen ONE person who has had good results, according to them (no pics) and they've had like 8 procedures, so one every year or something like that, so I do hope they have results, but can't rule out microswelling. Also go to RealSelf. com and look at how well lasers worked for those people. Most had no improvement and a lot had permanent damage. Then come back and tell me how silly I am.


Please only PM me if it's something that cannot be talked about on the thread or is highly personal. This way, everyone benefits.


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Desperately trying to turn the state of the Scar Forum around. But I'm just one person.

Occasionally I'll tell you to go to [link removed]. There is no affiliation, there is just simply too much misinformation about needling on this board (and internet in general)

Peer review or get the f*ck out! No folk remedies please.


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yah prettywords is the kind of person that makes me afraid of laser treatment. theres a lot of positive reviews though

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yah prettywords is the kind of person that makes me afraid of laser treatment. theres a lot of positive reviews though

go research, you'll find a lot of reviews... if prettywords makes you afraid of laser treatment, then you'll be surprised to know how many people would scar you after you finish your study...lol anything you do, good luck =)

I'm silly? Go to the scar forum and see how many people had either no improvement from lasers, or worse -- they had permanent damage like more scarring, hyperpigmentation, fat loss etc.

I've only seen ONE person who has had good results, according to them (no pics) and they've had like 8 procedures, so one every year or something like that, so I do hope they have results, but can't rule out microswelling. Also go to RealSelf. com and look at how well lasers worked for those people. Most had no improvement and a lot had permanent damage. Then come back and tell me how silly I am.

Well if you wanna talk about RealSelves.. I see 66% positive for the generic category 'laser resurfacing', 56% for Fraxel Re:Pair, and I know for a fact that atleast one of them didn't even have Re:Pair, and I'd wager there are a handful that had re:store instead.. That's not 'most'. There are risks, as with everything, but you blow them way out of proportion. A person who had a bad experience is far, far more likely to review, too, which is something to take into account. The ones who had 'no improvement' are the tossers that don't understand the concept of cumulative results. They're not an instant cure, they shouldn't be reviewed as such.

If you've only seen one person who's had results, you need to use google.

You're silly.

Nope.avi, did you have any laser treatments? did it improve your scars...?

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Desperately trying to turn the state of the Scar Forum around. But I'm just one person.

Occasionally I'll tell you to go to [link removed]. There is no affiliation, there is just simply too much misinformation about needling on this board (and internet in general)

Peer review or get the f*ck out! No folk remedies please.


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I'm silly? Go to the scar forum and see how many people had either no improvement from lasers, or worse -- they had permanent damage like more scarring, hyperpigmentation, fat loss etc.

I've only seen ONE person who has had good results, according to them (no pics) and they've had like 8 procedures, so one every year or something like that, so I do hope they have results, but can't rule out microswelling. Also go to RealSelf. com and look at how well lasers worked for those people. Most had no improvement and a lot had permanent damage. Then come back and tell me how silly I am.

Well if you wanna talk about RealSelves.. I see 66% positive for the generic category 'laser resurfacing', 56% for Fraxel Re:Pair, and I know for a fact that atleast one of them didn't even have Re:Pair, and I'd wager there are a handful that had re:store instead.. That's not 'most'. There are risks, as with everything, but you blow them way out of proportion. A person who had a bad experience is far, far more likely to review, too, which is something to take into account. The ones who had 'no improvement' are the tossers that don't understand the concept of cumulative results. They're not an instant cure, they shouldn't be reviewed as such.

If you've only seen one person who's had results, you need to use google.

You're silly.

Many of those positive reviews are from microswelling and a lot of people come back saying it did basically nothing once its subsided.

It's my opinion after seeing so many people not get results from laser, or worse get damage, that it's not a great treatment for scarring.

I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop calling me 'silly.' It's against forum rules to name call.


Please only PM me if it's something that cannot be talked about on the thread or is highly personal. This way, everyone benefits.


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Sorry to give a positive spin to lasers, but Re:pair is the only thing that has worked for me. Get your acne under control before you do anything. I would bet that the rating on RealSelf is from people who have only done one treatment, and that was probably done at 40-50mj. One treatment resulted in about a 30% improvement, and it was Dr Persky on RealSelf who said it takes multiple treatments of Re:pair for acne scars, and he was right. It was because of the 30% overall improvement plus the virtual elimination of 2 non-acne scars, that were easy to pinpoint their location, that made me a believer. People who have not done Re:pair work on anecdotal evidence and warn people away from a treatment that will help them. It is almost like they want to keep you in the hole they're in. IF you can do Re:pair, run, don't walk, to do it. All of my Re:pairs have been done at 70mj, so that is some ammunition for when you talk to a doctor. I have been playing this game longer than you have been alive. You will notice I only mention Re:pair and don't use the F word(Fraxel) because the other F lasers are useless for acne scars. See a Plastic Surgeon, not a derm. Here is a link for a ton of laser info. Some of the links may be dead because I have been too involved to update the thread. I am watching a new laser from Lumenis called SCAAR FX, but there is insufficient information out there yet. If this passes reviews it could be the laser for you, but I don't know.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php/topic/252527-laser-link-o-rama/


Dermabrasion - Full Face

CO2 Full Face 1996

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% May 22, 2008

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Jan 08, 2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 30,2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 08,2010

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Nov 04,2011

"The Road To Wellville" 1994

Goodloe Bender: Health! The 'open sesame' to the sucker's purse!


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I don't want people to be 'in the hole I'm in' I've just seen too many people, besides you, who have had bad or no results. I could easily afford lasers, I'm just wary of them.


Please only PM me if it's something that cannot be talked about on the thread or is highly personal. This way, everyone benefits.


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The science behind lasers is sound. When used at a high enough setting it can certainly promote collagen formation and help reduce the appearance of acne scars. That being said, it is one of the most dangerous procedures, and that is something you MUST be aware of when going about getting a deep treatment like CO2 or Fraxel Repair at a high setting.

In my opinion everyone should visit this site before undergoing laser treatment so that you are fully aware of what the risks are. These may be the vocal minority as someone has previously stated, but the risk is there. Good luck with whatever treatment you pursue.

http://iplandlaserdamagesupport.prophpbb.com/

If you have rolling scars subcision is a far less dangerous procedure when performed by a skilled surgeon.

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OK Doc what is the percent of complications compared to other surgeries? That site also has a nice section for snake oil remedies that you know don't work, and half of them are pushed on this site. I have said many times that Re:pair is not for everybody, but for those that can tolerate it nothing really compares. Do you know the science behind SCAAR FX? There is very little information available. If you look at my signature you will see that I have gone with the biggies in scar treatment and I also wasted my time with the dermaroller and copper peptides. I would prefer to refer people to sites like this for their information.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2921736/


Dermabrasion - Full Face

CO2 Full Face 1996

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% May 22, 2008

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Jan 08, 2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 30,2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 08,2010

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Nov 04,2011

"The Road To Wellville" 1994

Goodloe Bender: Health! The 'open sesame' to the sucker's purse!


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everybody has their own opinions, and everyone has the right to tell or share their opinions here...if there is only one opinion for one treatment, then it's not really helpful...and i know we are all here to help others and yourself, so no need for name calling or treating others negatively.

at the end of the day, everyone has to research by themselves, because it's YOUR skin. you must to be willing to listening both positive and negative side of the treatment. if you don't pay an attention to risks or negative feedback, then what if your treatment fails and your skin got more damaged...? who will be responsible? it's not your doctor, people here on forum, positive reviewers, or people who recommended you to get the treatment. it's YOU.so you'll need to study hard! go to many forums or site, see professional and ask your derms, read both bad and good reviews and stories. read articles or any clinical studies about it. don't just go get treatment, because you have money and you saw positive reviews or comments. remember, everybody's skin react differently!

as much as i want to try laser treatment again, i am too scared of the risks come with it. although i haven't had 'repair', i had failed 'restore' and ipl laser treatments. no improvement at all on my scars. but i know both lasers defiantly made my skin EXTREMELY sensitive...i paid money to make my skin worse...i wish i didn't...!

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Nope.avi, did you have any laser treatments? did it improve your scars...?

I haven't had re:pair but the science is sound, which is why I have plans to, regardless of how much I push microneedling - it's just a poor man's alternative, the principles behind re:pair and PCI are the same.

it's really expensive treatment i agree saywhat.gif ...but i guess it's not just only repair, any laser treatments are so pricy.

Please help me! I'm lost. I can upload pictures if requested

many knowledgeable people on this site, so it's a good idea to post your pictures of your skin, so they can give you more advices. i am sure it'll help you =)

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Has anyone ever tried the ECO2 laser by lutronic? I am looking into this and any information is greatly appreciated!

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Desperately trying to turn the state of the Scar Forum around. But I'm just one person.

Occasionally I'll tell you to go to [link removed]. There is no affiliation, there is just simply too much misinformation about needling on this board (and internet in general)

Peer review or get the f*ck out! No folk remedies please.


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OK Doc what is the percent of complications compared to other surgeries? That site also has a nice section for snake oil remedies that you know don't work, and half of them are pushed on this site. I have said many times that Re:pair is not for everybody, but for those that can tolerate it nothing really compares. Do you know the science behind SCAAR FX? There is very little information available. If you look at my signature you will see that I have gone with the biggies in scar treatment and I also wasted my time with the dermaroller and copper peptides. I would prefer to refer people to sites like this for their information.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2921736/

Dudley,

Since there is obviously no study doing a direct comparison on the safety of each laser therapy compared with subcision, lets look at some of the FDA reports by patients with adverse reactions to FRAXEL laser variants alone. According to the FDA, these reported cases represent only approximately 1-2% of the total adverse reactions to laser treatment.

http://www.accessdat...uestTimeout=500

EDIT: Apparently I can't link directly to the cases so type "fraxel" under brand, and change the date to somewhere around "2000"

Further evidence can be found with a simple search on this site alone.

Based upon 186 reviews, Fraxel laser varients produced an overall rating of 2.9 with a 65.97% approval rate

http://www.acne.org/.../298/page1.html

On the other hand subcision produced an overall rating of 3.5 with an 81.82% approval rate

http://www.acne.org/...s/57/page1.html

While it is true that the fraxel laser review is giving reviews on not just fraxel repair, the laser you are supporting, the similar variable exists with subcision since not all surgeons are experienced at performing the procedure.

Since you have also stated that you are not knowlegable on the effectiveness of subcision, here is a study on how effective subcision can be since apparently we both like studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20553364

"RESULTS:

Forty-six patients followed the protocol completely, had 60-90% improvement in depth and size of scars (significant improvement) with mean: 71.73%. 28.2% of them had '80% improvement or more' (excellent improvement)."

I have yet to see a study on fraxel repair or any other laser for that matter provides an average of 70+% improvement after a single treatment. Of course, this would require the work of a very qualified surgeon to achieve.

Like I have stated, I am happy that you have found good results from your fraxel repair treatment, but people should be aware of the long list of risks associated with fraxel repair in addition to its potential benefits.

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Doc, see now that is a response that I can work with. Thanks. I doubt that many are getting 70% after one laser treatment, but data is very hard to come by, and subjective at that. I have even posted a very famous complication on my Laser-Link-O-Rama thread. http://www.realself....-laser-horrible I had no doubt that I could handle Re:pair because I have already had Dermabrasion and Regular CO2 in the past. I knew Re:pair was working because of 2 non-acne scars that were easy to track. I have no photos that show the extent of my scarring, that is why I refer to Danielle Osti.

I will be going for a facelift later this year, I am just searching for the right Plastic Surgeon now. I thought I would quote a post from RealSelf.

"Hello all, When in Doubt, Tell the Truth. Mark Twain I was asked by a colleague to say a few words about the dialogue that has been going on here regarding Fraxel re:pair. Fraxel re:pair laser originally manufactured by Reliant, now Solta, is a very powerful fractional CO2 skin rejuvenative laser. I am a board certified Facial Plastic Surgeon since 1986, and have used original fully ablative CO2 lasers since they were first approved cosmetically in the early 1990’s. I have been using Fraxel re:store for 4 years, and Fraxel re:pair for 9 months, having treated nearly 100 patients with repair. I have said from the start that unfortunately we will see severe complications from Fraxel re:pair laser because it is so powerful of a tool, and it is not a commodity that you just buy and use, and wah-lah!, every patient looks years younger. It is a great tool for achieving those results, but not without knowledge, care, experience, willingness to seek help when needed, devotion to meticulous details, and a cosmetic physician’s combined scientific and artistic skills. My heart goes out to those patients such as Christine here on this site who have suffered complications from the treatment. Again, there will be more untoward events as more physicians use this incredible, and powerful technology. Fraxel re:pair works, and it works better than any other technology that I have been exposed to during my 25 years of facial cosmetic surgery experience. It works in the hands of some of the world’s top dermatologists who have endorsed Fraxel, including the brilliant inventor Rox Anderson,MD; Richard Fitzpatrick, MD; Ron Geronimus, MD; Chris Zachary, MD; ophthalmologist Howard Conn, MD, and facial plastic surgeon Steven Weiner, MD. These physicians are treating many patients every day with excellent results and very high safety profiles. Fraxel re:pair is the most clinically studied of all of the other fractionated CO2 lasers with the most peer reviewed articles in our scientific journals. Before being released to the public, and being FDA approved, Fraxel re:pair was studied for 2 ½ years by multiple investigators. Fraxel re:pair not only costs as much as a Lamborghini, but is as much of a precision instrument as the Italian car. All one needs to drive a Lamborghini is a driver’s license. All you need to use a fractionated laser (from any of the laser companies) is a doctor’s license. Just because you have a driver’s license and buy the Lamborghini does not mean that you drive off the new car lot and floor the gas pedal. That would cause a bad accident. The same is true for Fraxel re:pair. Just because a physician purchases the laser and it arrives in his office in the crate, does not equate to safe results without complications for his patients. The physician must be well trained in laser physics, the cosmetic use of lasers, and most importantly the conservative use of Fraxel re:pair particularly until he or she is familiar with their specific laser. When I first treated patients I was very conservative, and chose patients who would benefit from minimal improvement allowing for low treatment settings. At an early point, I realized that my patients were taking longer to heal, and were having “allergic” reactions to something. Even though they all eventually healed with excellent results, I contacted Reliant and asked that my laser be checked, concerned that something was off. The company immediately took care of the laser, and there have been no further problems. Fortunately I had a surgical and cosmetic laser background and experience, and knew that my new powerful laser needed a fine tuning. Most fortunately none of my patients have experienced burns, or permanent scarring or discoloration. All of these complications, plus more are possible. As with any surgical procedure, an informed consent between physician and patient must include all risks, complications, and alternative treatments. Once the benefits of the treatment far outweigh the risks, and the patient is willing to accept the small risk of a complication, then it is reasonable to proceed with the treatment. Pre- and post-treatment instructions need to be followed most carefully to insure optimum recovery. People need to have their hand held in the first week, which is very critical to their ultimate outcome. Early recognition of problems can reverse any long term issues in most cases. For patients who desire to look years younger with a single non-surgical in office procedure under local anesthetic, I believe that there is no better fractionated CO2 laser treatment than Fraxel re:pair. I will emphasize again, that I can only speak for myself and site my own patient results with this technology. I have spoken to dermatologists who have either sent their re:pair back or want to because it was too much of a “surgical-like” procedure to perform. Certainly an ability to use local nerve blocks and tumescent local anesthesia along with proper dosing of analgesics makes the procedure much more tolerable for both patient and physician. I fully agree with my colleague’s opinion above that physicians using Fraxel re:pair should have more of a “surgeon” philosophy regardless of their specialty training. I only agreed to treat patients with Fraxel re:pair after I researched the technology thoroughly, and visited the headquarters in Mountain View, California, and was personally convinced that when performed properly it was both safe, and effective. Thanks to our new President, “hope and change” are very popular right now in America. In facial cosmetic surgery as well we “hope” to “change” patients to achieve their specific aesthetic goals, in the safest and most effective manner. Like our country’s future, there are no absolute guarantees that there will not be complications and problems along the way. I hope and pray daily that the complications that we have heard about here resolve rapidly for the patients involved. Good luck and be well. Dr. P"

View answers from Michael A. Persky, MD

I have said many times that I know nothing about subcision, and that is why I never criticize it. I even posted a compliment to Tom_Mason on his improvement.

Nope, I used the most intense Copper Peptide Super COP from Skin biology per Loren Pickart PhD. here is a link to their forums. http://healthyskin.i...rm/f/7270023352 WOW, my last thread there was started Nov 22, 2008. My last post was on Oct 14, 2010. As you can see I gave up on Copper Peptides a long time ago. My handle is Dazed on there.


Dermabrasion - Full Face

CO2 Full Face 1996

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% May 22, 2008

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Jan 08, 2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 30,2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 08,2010

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Nov 04,2011

"The Road To Wellville" 1994

Goodloe Bender: Health! The 'open sesame' to the sucker's purse!


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Desperately trying to turn the state of the Scar Forum around. But I'm just one person.

Occasionally I'll tell you to go to [link removed]. There is no affiliation, there is just simply too much misinformation about needling on this board (and internet in general)

Peer review or get the f*ck out! No folk remedies please.


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Doc, I just reread your post and setting the date earlier than 2008 would give me a fase representation of the figures since I am not a fan of Re:fine or Re:store. Anything prior to 2008 means nothing to me because it includes lasers that I have no use for. I am a fan of Re:pair simply because that is what helped me. I have always read that Re:pair can penetrate to 1.4 mm at 70 mj. Get your rullers out folks, not many scars are deeper than that. SanJoseSkin explained the mj settings in this thread http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php/topic/262349-deep-fx-over-2-weeks-ago-ugghh/ . I don't pretend to understand the science behind this, and you probably understand it much better than I. The ablative fractionalized CO2 laser is being used to treat the Bern Triplets. http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/30977987/ns/today-today_news/t/triplet-sisters-scarred-fire-have-new-hope/ This technology is very powerful and not for everyone, nor do I recommend this for everyone, but if you can handle this I think it is wonderful.. As Dr. Persky stated above "Fraxel re:pair works, and it works better than any other technology that I have been exposed to during my 25 years of facial cosmetic surgery experience". Everyone should be watching the science behind SCAAR FX http://www.lumenis.com/press/pr_1335047336 As you know the true advancements come very slowly, and I have yet to find out much about SCAAR FX, but Lumenis makes the Deep FX which is similiar to Re:pair.


Dermabrasion - Full Face

CO2 Full Face 1996

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% May 22, 2008

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Jan 08, 2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 30,2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 08,2010

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Nov 04,2011

"The Road To Wellville" 1994

Goodloe Bender: Health! The 'open sesame' to the sucker's purse!


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