171 replies to this topic

[Ind1g0]

When applied to the face- should the oil be mixed with a carrier- or is it permeable enough on its own without the need for another?

[alternativista]

When applied to the face- should the oil be mixed with a carrier- or is it permeable enough on its own without the need for another?

They are both commonly used as carrier oils, so no. Just make sure you get a good brand from a place with high turnover and then store in the refridgerator.
These along with most grain and seed oils are very prone to going rancid. The average supermarket brand won't do. I use Napa Valley Organics sold at Whole Foods.

[strax]

is this the same thing that cetaphil "restroderm" attempts to accomplish? it might be easier for me to follow their directions if it's the same idea.

note: cetaphil product uses sunflower oil and shae butter

[Ichance23]

wow. thank you so much
alternativista this is amazing i just started using primrose oil on my face for 1 week and my acne has gone from a 6/10 to a 3/10 and my skin has not looked this good ever!!! thank you so much. your posts, hard work, and willingness to share this info with us is much appreciated! Thank you!

[alternativista]

So, I was just reading something on this subject, don't remember what, but it included a list of GLA sources commonly used in supplements and it occurred to me that maybe the Zante Currants I often use in some cooking (sweet substitutes) as the cheapest and nearly lowest sugar dried fruit available at whole foods, where black currants, a source of GLA. So I wikipedia'd it and alas no, zante currants aren't currants but a tiny grape. Currants are not that common in the U.S. due to laws restricting them due to some blight a 100 years ago. But I then wikipedia'd Black currants and found this mention and link to a study:

In a human pilot study, ingestion of blackcurrant seed oil by mothers reduced atopic dermatitis in their breast-fed newborns who were supplemented with the oil over two years.^[23] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2222.2010.03540.x/abstract

[Binga]

So, I was just reading something on this subject, don't remember what, but it included a list of GLA sources commonly used in supplements and it occurred to me that maybe the Zante Currants I often use in some cooking (sweet substitutes) as the cheapest and nearly lowest sugar dried fruit available at whole foods, where black currants, a source of GLA. So I wikipedia'd it and alas no, zante currants aren't currants but a tiny grape. Currants are not that common in the U.S. due to laws restricting them due to some blight a 100 years ago. But I then wikipedia'd Black currants and found this mention and link to a study:

In a human pilot study, ingestion of blackcurrant seed oil by mothers reduced atopic dermatitis in their breast-fed newborns who were supplemented with the oil over two years.^[23] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2222.2010.03540.x/abstract

So, I was just reading something on this subject, don't remember what, but it included a list of GLA sources commonly used in supplements and it occurred to me that maybe the Zante Currants I often use in some cooking (sweet substitutes) as the cheapest and nearly lowest sugar dried fruit available at whole foods, where black currants, a source of GLA. So I wikipedia'd it and alas no, zante currants aren't currants but a tiny grape. Currants are not that common in the U.S. due to laws restricting them due to some blight a 100 years ago. But I then wikipedia'd Black currants and found this mention and link to a study:

In a human pilot study, ingestion of blackcurrant seed oil by mothers reduced atopic dermatitis in their breast-fed newborns who were supplemented with the oil over two years.^[23] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2222.2010.03540.x/abstract

Linoleic acid is a DHT blocker. Instead of taking supplements do you think cooking with grapeseed, sunflower and safflower oil will make any difference? Sunflower oil is of course high in vitamin E.

Edited by Binga, 03 December 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[alternativista]

So, I was just reading something on this subject, don't remember what, but it included a list of GLA sources commonly used in supplements and it occurred to me that maybe the Zante Currants I often use in some cooking (sweet substitutes) as the cheapest and nearly lowest sugar dried fruit available at whole foods, where black currants, a source of GLA. So I wikipedia'd it and alas no, zante currants aren't currants but a tiny grape. Currants are not that common in the U.S. due to laws restricting them due to some blight a 100 years ago. But I then wikipedia'd Black currants and found this mention and link to a study:

In a human pilot study, ingestion of blackcurrant seed oil by mothers reduced atopic dermatitis in their breast-fed newborns who were supplemented with the oil over two years.^[23] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2222.2010.03540.x/abstract

So, I was just reading something on this subject, don't remember what, but it included a list of GLA sources commonly used in supplements and it occurred to me that maybe the Zante Currants I often use in some cooking (sweet substitutes) as the cheapest and nearly lowest sugar dried fruit available at whole foods, where black currants, a source of GLA. So I wikipedia'd it and alas no, zante currants aren't currants but a tiny grape. Currants are not that common in the U.S. due to laws restricting them due to some blight a 100 years ago. But I then wikipedia'd Black currants and found this mention and link to a study:

In a human pilot study, ingestion of blackcurrant seed oil by mothers reduced atopic dermatitis in their breast-fed newborns who were supplemented with the oil over two years.^[23] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2222.2010.03540.x/abstract

Linoleic acid is a DHT blocker. Instead of taking supplements do you think cooking with grapeseed, sunflower and safflower oil will make any difference? Sunflower oil is of course high in vitamin E.

I think you should use it topically.

[alternativista]

Here's a list of oils and their percentage of linoleic acid: http://www.news-medi...oleic-Acid.aspx

Safflower oil 78% Grape seed oil 73% Poppyseed oil 70% Sunflower oil 68% Hemp oil 60%


coconut oil and olive oil are way down on the list. Jojoba doesn't appear probably because this list is for diet purposes.

[alternativista]

I dont know if these sources are in here already

Lipid Mediators in Acne

Monica Ottaviani, Emanuela Camera, and Mauro Picardo
Laboratory of Cutaneous Physiopathology, San Gallicano Dermatological Institute IRCCS, Via Elio Chianesi 53, 00144 Rome, Italy

http://www.hindawi.c...mi/2010/858176/ Full paper




http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2835893/

Sebaceous gland lipids

In experimental models, linoleic acid is preferentially transformed into two carbons precursors in the sebaceous gland by entering the β-oxidation reaction at the acylside chain, which yields to acetyl-CoA. The latter product feeds the biosynthetic pathway leading to squalene and wax esters synthesis.⁹ It seems that β-oxidation of linoleic acid is specific of sebocytes and that it is correlated with their differentiation. A diminished amount of linoleic acid has been proposed as a factor predisposing to comedones formation.¹⁰ Moreover, low level of linoleic acid also produces impairment of the epidermal barrier function, which might account for increased permeability of comedonal wall to inflammatory substances.¹¹ Other lipids have been proposed as having involvement in the development of comedone lesions. In particular the attention has been pointed to the increase of other fatty acid and by-products of squalene peroxidation.^12–14

in vitro data showed that squalene peroxide beyond induction of HaCaT keratinocytes proliferation, led also to the upregulation and release of inflammatory mediators, which indicate a pro-inflammatory activity of by-products of squalene oxidation.¹⁹ The strategy that skin adopts to limit the potentially harmful effects of peroxidated squalene relies on the vitamin E supply to the skin surface.

And much more. Including a section on diets affect on lipid composition. 40 studies cited.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2836431/

The relationship of diet and acne

Includes quite a bit about Vitamin D and A and their affects on Cell proliferation.

In keratinocytes, 1,25(OH)₂D₃ regulates growth and differentiation; for that reason vitamin D analogues have been developed for the treatment of psoriasis which is characterized as an aggressive hyperproliferative skin disease.

Antinflammatory compounds such as zileuton, which targets certain enzymes of the lipid oxidation pathways, are in clinical studies.^33,34 These pathways involve metabolites of polyunsaturated fatty acids.

Then a bit about linoleic acid deficiency in acne sufferers and..

The exact fate of these essential nutrients in human sebaceous cells is not yet fully elucidated. An experimental study³⁷ unveiled a unique metabolic fate of linoleic acid in sebaceous cells, which is preferentially beta-oxidized in contrast to the other predominant fatty acids, which are incorporated to the most prevalent sebaceous lipids. That rapid oxidation and degradation in sebaceous cells allows palmitic acid to be available as the sole substrate to the delta 6 desaturase of sebaceous cells, the predominant desaturase of human sebaceous cells.³⁸ That enzyme normally catalyzes the synthesis of more omega-6 derivatives from linoleic acid, since it is the enzyme’s preferred substrate. There is also substantial evidence that linoleic acid is an essential structural component of skin ceramides, important for barrier function.

...the above [guinea pig] study revealed that these essential nutrients could enter from the diet, survive the digestive tract and reach the skin’s surface unaltered. A very recent nutritional study⁴² in two groups of women who were given flaxseed or borage oil for 12 weeks revealed that the daily ingestion of 2.2 g αLA and linoleic acid or 2.2 g linoleic and γ-linolenic acid, respectively, demonstrated some skin benefits. Skin irritation, changes in skin reddening and blood flow were diminished in both groups,

minerals such as zinc, copper and iron, known to influence anti-inflammatory and pro-inflammatory enzymes, for example desaturases or lipoxygenases.

and then a section on Dairy. Over 40 studies cited with many on the metabolism of skin lipids, PPAR, etc.

And finally:

A new concept for acne therapy: a pilot study with zileuton, an oral 5-lipoxygenase inhibitor. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2835912/ Zileuton is an antiinflammatory agent that affects lipid metabolism. It was mentioned in the info I pasted above. And is used as a treatment for asthma.


acne.org discussion thread: http://www.acne.org/...s/#entry3168178

Edited by alternativista, 08 January 2013 - 04:53 PM.

[Ichance23]

i put evening primrose oil topically and it didn't really help my acne after 1 month but i know there are studies showing it to help such as the following one: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9692305


"A major pathogenic factor of acne is the disturbed keratinization of the follicular infundibulum. It has been hypothesized that a relative decrease in linoleic acid in the sebum could be responsible, in part, for this. The aim of the present study was objectively to evaluate the effects of topically applied linoleic acid on the size of microcomedones in patients with mild acne. The design was a double-blind placebo-controlled randomized cross-over study. Evaluations were performed by digital image analysis of cyanoacrylate follicular biopsies. There was a significant effect of topically applied linoleic acid on the size of follicular casts and microcomedones, an almost 25% reduction in their overall size being achieved over a 1-month treatment period. In contrast, no change was found at placebo-treated sites. It is concluded that topical linoleic acid might play a role as a comedolytic agent in acne-prone patients."
i would love to use linoleic acid in the future but evening primrose is so oily.

i have been taking vitamin d for 2 months and in the study were it cured acne for 50% of people and significantly helped it for 76% it took 3 months. I am unhappy to report that the only thing that seems to be working for me is drinking acv and applying zinc oxide topically but I for sure be applying some vitamin d to my skin in the future. heres my theory why people get acne in the winter. we are out in the sun during the summer and the vitamin d is directly manufactured on our skin! hence on our skin on our face!

i think that that taking it in pill form takes so long to work because it never is made in the skin!!! it takes month to make it to the skin layer! by getting that vitamin d directly on the face I beleive it will directly available to my skin cells and will simulate the idea of putting my face in the sun during the summer!.
now all that is left is for me to get some vitamin d and put it on topically i will do that right now.

btw i have noticed everyone at school who never has acne in the summer is getting some during the winter!! there has to... there has to be a connection!

wow! after reading that study you posted about the zuelo whatever it is called i looked at the wiki page for it! turns out it inhibits something that GLA inhibits as well! i will continue drinking the evening primrose oil! thanks!

Edited by Ichance23, 27 December 2012 - 06:46 PM.

[alternativista]

Hey! I think that might be the first study of topical linoleic acid on acne patients posted here. Good find.

i put evening primrose oil topically and it didn't really help my acne after 1 month but i know there are studies showing it to help such as the following one: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9692305


"A major pathogenic factor of acne is the disturbed keratinization of the follicular infundibulum. It has been hypothesized that a relative decrease in linoleic acid in the sebum could be responsible, in part, for this. The aim of the present study was objectively to evaluate the effects of topically applied linoleic acid on the size of microcomedones in patients with mild acne. The design was a double-blind placebo-controlled randomized cross-over study. Evaluations were performed by digital image analysis of cyanoacrylate follicular biopsies. There was a significant effect of topically applied linoleic acid on the size of follicular casts and microcomedones, an almost 25% reduction in their overall size being achieved over a 1-month treatment period. In contrast, no change was found at placebo-treated sites. It is concluded that topical linoleic acid might play a role as a comedolytic agent in acne-prone patients."
i would love to use linoleic acid in the future but evening primrose is so oily.

i have been taking vitamin d for 2 months and in the study were it cured acne for 50% of people and significantly helped it for 76% it took 3 months. I am unhappy to report that the only thing that seems to be working for me is drinking acv and applying zinc oxide topically but I for sure be applying some vitamin d to my skin in the future. heres my theory why people get acne in the winter. we are out in the sun during the summer and the vitamin d is directly manufactured on our skin! hence on our skin on our face!

i think that that taking it in pill form takes so long to work because it never is made in the skin!!! it takes month to make it to the skin layer! by getting that vitamin d directly on the face I beleive it will directly available to my skin cells and will simulate the idea of putting my face in the sun during the summer!.
now all that is left is for me to get some vitamin d and put it on topically i will do that right now.

btw i have noticed everyone at school who never has acne in the summer is getting some during the winter!! there has to... there has to be a connection!

wow! after reading that study you posted about the zuelo whatever it is called i looked at the wiki page for it! turns out it inhibits something that GLA inhibits as well! i will continue drinking the evening primrose oil! thanks!

Yeah, I posted about a cause for the increase in winter earlier in this thread. Something about reduced ceramide production I think. Apply topical yogurt. And of course, there's the reduced vitamin d which affects cell proliferation.

Edited by alternativista, 27 December 2012 - 07:31 PM.

[Ind1g0]

A question about time of healing. If I were to use topical linoleic acid to reduce the above discussed possible causes of acne- how long do you all think it would take topically to lessen cell proliferation or at least the hardening of the sebum? I've been using topical grapeseed oil for almost a month now and I have to say: it has been wonderful and certainly does not clog my pores. I just like to intimately understand the body and what I do to it so I'd like to imagine the timeline of what is happening to my skin monthly as I apply this

[alternativista]

So, today. I'm switching to hemp seed oil for topical application for myself and the dog. It seems a little greasier than the safflower. It's not as nice. But we'll see if it does anything different for us.

Because of the holidays and the abundance of turkey, i have recently been giving my dog turkey bone broth and the scraps from boiling it up. Plus I allowed my sister to feed him the less than premium corn and wheat and chicken based dry dog food she uses. He had a couple of meals of that. And he seems extra itchy the last few days. Seriously tormented, actually.

Edited by alternativista, 29 December 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[alternativista]

Role of Innate Immunity in the pathogenesis of Acne

http://www.cunliffe-...eck-pivarci.pdf

[alternativista]

-The relationship of diet and acne http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2836431/

Full paper. Big sections exploring PPARS, lipids in sebum, etc. Tons of research cited to explore further.


-Antiproliferative effect of vitamin A and D analogues on adult human keratinocytes in vitro.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/18509257/


Zileuton, an oral 5-lipoxygenase inhibitor, directly reduces sebum production.

Zouboulis ChC, Saborowski A, Boschnakow A.

Source

Department of Dermatology, Charité University Medicine Berlin, Campus Benjamin Franklin, Berlin, Germany. christos.zouboulis@charite.de

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Zileuton, a 5-lipoxygenase inhibitor, reduces the number of inflammatory lesions in moderate acne and inhibits the synthesis of sebaceous lipids.
OBJECTIVE:

To detect whether zileuton directly reduces sebum synthesis.
METHODS:

A 40-year-old female with mild disseminated sebaceous gland hyperplasia and seborrhea was treated with zileuton 4 x 600 mg/day over 2 weeks, was followed-up for 6 weeks after discontinuation of zileuton and was re-treated with low-dose isotretinoin 10 mg/2nd day over 5 weeks. Casual skin surface lipids and sebum synthesis were determined.
RESULTS:

Under treatment with zileuton increased casual skin surface lipids were normalized and synthesis of facial sebum was decreased. Six weeks after discontinuation of treatment casual skin surface lipids were increased again and synthesis of sebum returned to baseline. Subsequent low-dose isotretinoin treatment led to similar changes of casual skin surface lipids and sebum synthesis with zileuton already after 2 weeks.
CONCLUSION:

Zileuton directly inhibits sebum synthesis in a transient manner with a potency similar to low-dose isotretinoin at least in our patient.

From the wiki pedia page

Zileuton is an active oral inhibitor of the enzyme 5-lipoxygenase, which forms leukotrienes from arachidonic acid.

Zileuton is a minor substrate of CYP1A2, 2C8/9, 3A4, and a weak inhibitor of CYP 1A2.

The enzyme previously mentioned as a possible culprit in our linoleic acid deficiency.

There's also some talk about caffeine for anyone wanting to follow up on why caffeine breaks them out. But it mentions that there's been little research.

Edited by alternativista, 02 January 2013 - 12:33 PM.

[alternativista]

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9692305

Digital image analysis of the effect of topically applied linoleic acid on acne microcomedones.

Letawe C, Boone M, Piérard GE.

Source

Department of Dermatopathology, University of Liège, Belgium.

Abstract

A major pathogenic factor of acne is the disturbed keratinization of the follicular infundibulum. It has been hypothesized that a relative decrease in linoleic acid in the sebum could be responsible, in part, for this. The aim of the present study was objectively to evaluate the effects of topically applied linoleic acid on the size of microcomedones in patients with mild acne. The design was a double-blind placebo-controlled randomized cross-over study. Evaluations were performed by digital image analysis of cyanoacrylate follicular biopsies. There was a significant effect of topically applied linoleic acid on the size of follicular casts and microcomedones, an almost 25% reduction in their overall size being achieved over a 1-month treatment period. In contrast, no change was found at placebo-treated sites. It is concluded that topical linoleic acid might play a role as a comedolytic agent in acne-prone patients.

microcoedones are the smallest form of an acne lesion, it is the very beginning of a pore blockage. It cannot be seen with the naked eye.

Edited by alternativista, 07 January 2013 - 05:48 PM.

[alternativista]

So, today. I'm switching to hemp seed oil for topical application for myself and the dog. It seems a little greasier than the safflower. It's not as nice. But we'll see if it does anything different for us.

Because of the holidays and the abundance of turkey, i have recently been giving my dog turkey bone broth and the scraps from boiling it up. Plus I allowed my sister to feed him the less than premium corn and wheat and chicken based dry dog food she uses. He had a couple of meals of that. And he seems extra itchy the last few days. Seriously tormented, actually.

 

so its been a month.  and i definitely prefer safflower or grapeseed oil to hemp.  ill be blending them until the hemp oil is gone.  and eat some as a supplement.  The dog won't eat the hemp oil, though. but loves the safflower. Its the one thing I do to him that makes him happy. 

[onefatalgoose]

 

 

so its been a month.  and i definitely prefer safflower or grapeseed oil to hemp.  ill be blending them until the hemp oil is gone.  and eat some as a supplement.  The dog won't eat the hemp oil, though. but loves the safflower. Its the one thing I do to him that makes him happy. 

 

Have you tried cold pressed sesame seed oil?  it seems to be known as the queen of all oils due to how well it works for skin/internally, and how well it absorbs into the skin.  I've read that it is great for scars too.  i love trying new stuff so i'm going to see how it works for the next month or so.  I don't have active acne, or much scarring too be honest, but enough to where i'd be able to tell if it had an effect

[alternativista]

Paper examining lipid profile of sebum:  

Sebaceous gland lipids

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2835893/

 

See references to studies on how carbohydrate levels in the diet affect sebum composition.

 

 

The effect of a low glycemic load diet on acne vulgaris and the fatty acid composition of skin surface triglycerides.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18178063

 

Also:

 

Dietary intervention in acne: Attenuation of increased mTORC1 signaling promoted by Western diet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3408989/

 

The relationship of diet and acne

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2836431/

[alternativista]

It just occurred to me that I should have taken a picture of my dog at the height of his hairloss so I could now show you one now in which it's all grown back.  He had a pretty near naked rear end (on his back near the base of the tale) and abdomen and bare spots on his tail and legs.  The fur on his back is now super thick and the patches on his tail and legs have disappeared.  And it's a lot harder to bathe him now with his thick coat....

 

So, I began researching this last April and began using safflower oil on myself and the dog soon after.  The dog also ingests it. He likes it. And in fact I don't apply it topically to him very often any more.  So perhaps this is a bit of a debunk of the experts who don't feel that the linoleic acid in our sebum is systemic or dietary.  At least the dietary part. Because I do think ingesting it is helping him.  I have not tried ingesting it myself.

Edited by alternativista, 19 February 2013 - 11:34 AM.