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Acne Prone Skin/sebum Deficient In Linoleic Acid, Possible Topical Solution

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#21 hugoll12

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:30 AM

washing face with water will increase skin's pH? will it break the skin's acid mantle?

#22 alternativista

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:44 AM

Most

washing face with water will increase skin's pH? will it break the skin's acid mantle?


Most tap water is slightly alkaline. But you skin will easily restore it's PH from the minor impact of water. And your acid mantle doesn't break. It's the sebum and sweat you secret everyday. Your skin is just vulnerable if you strip away the acid layer until it restores itself.

#23 hugoll12

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:48 AM

Most


washing face with water will increase skin's pH? will it break the skin's acid mantle?


Most tap water is slightly alkaline. But you skin will easily restore it's PH from the minor impact of water. And your acid mantle doesn't break. It's the sebum and sweat you secret everyday. Your skin is just vulnerable if you strip away the acid layer until it restores itself.


Thank you. so washing my face with water does less damage that with a cleanser

#24 alternativista

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:08 AM


Most


washing face with water will increase skin's pH? will it break the skin's acid mantle?


Most tap water is slightly alkaline. But you skin will easily restore it's PH from the minor impact of water. And your acid mantle doesn't break. It's the sebum and sweat you secret everyday. Your skin is just vulnerable if you strip away the acid layer until it restores itself.


Thank you. so washing my face with water does less damage that with a cleanser


Yes. You can also help restore acidity with an acidic toner like diluted ACV.

#25 alternativista

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:54 PM

Bump. And I have to say that after a week or so of using safflower oil, I prefer grape seed oil. The safflower seems greasier without being as moisturizing. My face and torso are fine, but my legs are dry. But then, maybe it's because I reduced the amount of olive oil I used to mix with the grape seed. the dog is doing so much better...

#26 FSAS

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:14 PM

ive been using grapeseed for a few days now on my face, havent noticed anything different. its so weird my face in general. its never oily or dry and litterally no matter what i put on it nothing changes. whether its harsh BP or all sorts of natural things. its a bit frustrating how people come back after using something and say their face was just glowing or they got irritated and then im always ...nothing changed >.< much the same with my diet no matter which extreme or non extreme i went too..nothing changed in me its been nearly 2 years now and i swear to god everything i have tried from pills to topical to diet not one thing has changed in me, i dont even get symptons even when i was on spiro..not one sympton. its just weird and really annoying because my acne is still so consitant relating to that time of the month.
i'll keep using grapeseed because it can easily just replace the olive oil i used but i honestly feel like a weird person. theres no way nothing should just not affect me good or bad. i dont even get drunk off alochol (although i dont drink it anymore).

sorry for the rant.
thanks for the contining info though.

i have a quick question i was reading the bottle of grapeseed and it said it was full of omegas (i think it was 6 or 9) and of course i have heard those are often bad for people with acne and the ratio is out of whack and people need to consume more 3's. i had a thought, if i use the oil on my skin will it get into my bloodstream and have a negtive effect?
really random but just had that thought

thanks! :)

#27 alternativista

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:01 PM

Linole

ive been using grapeseed for a few days now on my face, havent noticed anything different. its so weird my face in general. its never oily or dry and litterally no matter what i put on it nothing changes. whether its harsh BP or all sorts of natural things. its a bit frustrating how people come back after using something and say their face was just glowing or they got irritated and then im always ...nothing changed >.< much the same with my diet no matter which extreme or non extreme i went too..nothing changed in me its been nearly 2 years now and i swear to god everything i have tried from pills to topical to diet not one thing has changed in me, i dont even get symptons even when i was on spiro..not one sympton. its just weird and really annoying because my acne is still so consitant relating to that time of the month.
i'll keep using grapeseed because it can easily just replace the olive oil i used but i honestly feel like a weird person. theres no way nothing should just not affect me good or bad. i dont even get drunk off alochol (although i dont drink it anymore).

sorry for the rant.
thanks for the contining info though.

i have a quick question i was reading the bottle of grapeseed and it said it was full of omegas (i think it was 6 or 9) and of course i have heard those are often bad for people with acne and the ratio is out of whack and people need to consume more 3's. i had a thought, if i use the oil on my skin will it get into my bloodstream and have a negtive effect?
really random but just had that thought

thanks! Posted Image


Linoleic acid is an omega 6. omega 6s are essential, but most people get too much from their grain, gain oil and grain fed animal based diets. If you are avoiding those, then I doubt you have an issue. And while I suppose some of the topically applied gets circulated to elsewhere in your body, it will mostly go to the skin.

And have you looked into nutrients that help with estrogen dominance/progesterone fluctuation related breakouts?

#28 FSAS

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 12:28 AM

Linole


ive been using grapeseed for a few days now on my face, havent noticed anything different. its so weird my face in general. its never oily or dry and litterally no matter what i put on it nothing changes. whether its harsh BP or all sorts of natural things. its a bit frustrating how people come back after using something and say their face was just glowing or they got irritated and then im always ...nothing changed >.< much the same with my diet no matter which extreme or non extreme i went too..nothing changed in me its been nearly 2 years now and i swear to god everything i have tried from pills to topical to diet not one thing has changed in me, i dont even get symptons even when i was on spiro..not one sympton. its just weird and really annoying because my acne is still so consitant relating to that time of the month.
i'll keep using grapeseed because it can easily just replace the olive oil i used but i honestly feel like a weird person. theres no way nothing should just not affect me good or bad. i dont even get drunk off alochol (although i dont drink it anymore).

sorry for the rant.
thanks for the contining info though.

i have a quick question i was reading the bottle of grapeseed and it said it was full of omegas (i think it was 6 or 9) and of course i have heard those are often bad for people with acne and the ratio is out of whack and people need to consume more 3's. i had a thought, if i use the oil on my skin will it get into my bloodstream and have a negtive effect?
really random but just had that thought

thanks! Posted Image


Linoleic acid is an omega 6. omega 6s are essential, but most people get too much from their grain, gain oil and grain fed animal based diets. If you are avoiding those, then I doubt you have an issue. And while I suppose some of the topically applied gets circulated to elsewhere in your body, it will mostly go to the skin.

And have you looked into nutrients that help with estrogen dominance/progesterone fluctuation related breakouts?


okay thankyou. at the moment im using one from the supermarket coz its the only one i could get at the time but i saw another in the health shop today and i like it better just based on the fact its in a dark bottle and from a shop like that so i'll get it next time. it was $20 but i dunno, i had a horrible breakout the past 2 days *period related* so i dunno if the grapeseed might have added to that or not will get the other and try it.

i have tried extensive diet change in the past year and definitely hopped on the vitamin bandwagon but i dont have the money to keep it up and nothing made a difference. im thinking i re-trying vitamin D though.
i sadly fell into the trap of a nutropath (i say trap because i find it hard to believe certain things like the tests she did regarding my eye pattern etc) but she tested my zinc levels through some solution i put in my mouth that i found tasteless and she said someone high in zinc would have spat it out but my zinc levels came back normal through a blood test so i dunno if she was making that up to help convince me things.

i have tried saw palmetto but made no difference. i also tried eating basically half - 1 tree of boccoli a day (not cooked) and it didnt seem to help (on top of the jucing). i kinda feel like im in a dead end, i honestly feel like i have tried so many angles and so many natural things there is nothing left :/
even recently ive been doing oil pullling, noticed nothing except a sore jaw so really not too motivated.

im curious, how is it hormones can get like this, i understand the pill might not be helping (although ive been on diane for nearly 2 years now and nothing change..or if it has...this is as good as my acne will get on it :/) but why does it happen so out of the blue for no reason. i was 19 when it happened..actually 18. just one day bam - acne galore. and even after nearly 2 years of trying everything but chemicals or antibiotic or harsh everything that i still have acne? if i did nothing for my hormones to just get so senstive how is it i can do absoloutely everything but they wont change back? i think thats the major thing that i dont get is why all of a sudden past my puberty years and despite what i do nothing alters even slightly. im still a human so shouldnt food and lifestyle affect my body noticably like it does others?

#29 alternativista

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:51 AM

i have tried saw palmetto but made no difference. i also tried eating basically half - 1 tree of boccoli a day (not cooked) and it didnt seem to help (on top of the jucing). i kinda feel like im in a dead end, i honestly feel like i have tried so many angles and so many natural things there is nothing left :/
even recently ive been doing oil pullling, noticed nothing except a sore jaw so really not too motivated.


Ok, you didn't mention much there that had anything to do with managing fluctuating progesterone and estrogen. http://www.acne.org/...e/#entry2574328

#30 alternativista

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 10:46 AM

"Most vegetable oils contain linoleic acid, which the body has to convert into GLA before use,- some people who are atopic may be unable to convert linoleic acid into GLA. They are thought to be deficient in a particular enzyme that is needed for the conversion process. GLA is used by the body to produce a hormone-like antiinflammatory substance—a prostaglandin—which is capable of stimulating particular cells in the immune system. It is believed that asthma sufferers have stressed immune responses, which may be helped by GLA."
- Dr Ron Roberts, Asthma Controlled Naturally: Techniques That Work(Get the book.)


All the below is from Wikipedia articles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atopy and http://en.wikipedia....opic_dermatitis

Atopy (Posted Image /ˈætəpi/; Greekἀτοπία - placelessness, out of place, special, unusual) or atopic syndromeis a predisposition toward developing certain allergichypersensitivity[1] reactions.
Atopic dermatitis (AD, a type of eczema) is aninflammatory, chronically relapsing, non-contagious and pruritic (that is, itchy) skin disorder.
The skin of a patient with atopic dermatitis reacts abnormally and easily to irritants, food, and environmental allergens and becomes red, flaky and very itchy. It also becomes vulnerable to surface infections caused by bacteria.



More recently, a theory involving the role of Epidermal Barrier Dysfunction has been proposed as an explanation on the physiopathology of atopic dermatitis. Changes in at least 3 groups of genes encoding structural proteins, epidermal proteases and protease inhibitors predispose to a defective epidermal barrier and increase the risk of developing atopic dermatitis. The strong association between both genetic barrier defects and environmental insults to the barrier with atopic dermatitis suggests that epidermal barrier dysfunction is a primary event in the development of this disease

Atopic dermatitis has also been linked to a ceramide deficiency. (of which linoleic acid is a major component)

Since the beginning of the twentieth century, many mucosal inflammatory disorders have become dramatically more common; atopic eczema (AE) is a classic example of such a disease. It now affects 10–20% of children and 1–3% of adults in industrialized countries, and its prevalence in the United States alone has nearly tripled in the past thirty to forty years.[46]


There is a strong genetic predisposition toward atopic allergies, especially on the maternal side. Because of the strong familial evidence, investigators have tried to map susceptibility genes for atopy.

Other stuff:
, about your omega 3/6 ratio:
The most important omega-3 fats are EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid), both made from alpha linoleic acid. In order to make DHA and EPA, your body must have sufficient vitamin B6, vitamin B3, vitamin C, magnesium, and zinc. Many medications (oral contraceptives, oral estrogen) and conditions (excess stress, infection, cancer) cause a deficiency of such vitamins, which can lead to low levels of omega-3. Symptoms of inadequate omega-3 are mood swings, depression, dry skin, digestive upset, and immune problems."
- Phuli Cohan, The Natural Hormone Makeover: 10 Steps to Rejuvenate Your Health and Rediscover Your Inner Glow(Get the book.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Circadian cycle affects linoleic acid metabolism!!!!!
During darkness, high levels of melatonin released by the pineal gland block the ability of tumors to take up linoleic acid and convert it to 13-HODE (a molecule called 13-hydroxyoctadecadienoic acid). While exposed to light, however, melatonin levels are extremely low, and tumors are no longer protected by melatonin from the tumor-stimulating action of linoleic acid. In other words, exposure to artificial light when it is naturally dark, scrambles the molecular clocks in our brains. Light presented during the night will immediately turn off melatonin production and thus support tumor growth."
- Andreas Moritz, Timeless Secrets of Health & Rejuvenation: Unleash The Natural Healing Power That Lies Dormant Within You(Get the book.)

Edited by alternativista, 12 November 2012 - 04:58 PM.


#31 NewBrigade

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:12 AM

This is kind of blowing my mind...I thought I was supposed to avoid PUFAs and prioritize n-3s when I had to have PUFAs, so I have been strenuously avoiding all n-6s; i.e., avoiding vegetable oils except olive oil. So should I start grinding up flax seeds and using grapeseed oil now?

#32 alternativista

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 03:05 PM

This is kind of blowing my mind...I thought I was supposed to avoid PUFAs and prioritize n-3s when I had to have PUFAs, so I have been strenuously avoiding all n-6s; i.e., avoiding vegetable oils except olive oil. So should I start grinding up flax seeds and using grapeseed oil now?


Use it topically.

#33 NewBrigade

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:07 AM

Uhm, do I have to apply it to damaged skin? can I apply it elsewhere?

#34 Beatrice1

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:44 AM

I bought grape seed oil from whole foods after reading your posts about it, and I have been using it since sunday. My skin is breaking out right now with very inflamed acne, is this normal the first days? Is this some kind of initial breakout? Should i keep using it? I'm scared of ruining my skin, I'm still recovering from the colostrum i took in January. I've been using the grape seed oil as a toner morning and night.

#35 alternativista

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 06:27 AM

I bought grape seed oil from whole foods after reading your posts about it, and I have been using it since sunday. My skin is breaking out right now with very inflamed acne, is this normal the first days? Is this some kind of initial breakout? Should i keep using it? I'm scared of ruining my skin, I'm still recovering from the colostrum i took in January. I've been using the grape seed oil as a toner morning and night.


I don't think it could break you out in inflamed acne that fast. Unless you have an intolerance for it.

But, Try applying it very lightly by applying it to wet skin or with wet fingers. Or mix with aloe Vera gel. Or apply elsewhere on you body where you don't break out. It spreads throughout your skin and sebaceous glands according to the piglet study and whatever research was done to make the dog spot on treatment. Although according to some reviews I found, it takes a long time to see results in the dogs skin.

Edited by alternativista, 03 May 2012 - 06:30 AM.


#36 NewBrigade

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 04:20 AM

This is all tripping me up a bit...now I found some (old) research that oleic acid (like in olive oil) is, to but it briefly comedogenic. I haven't been slathering it on my skin, but I've been practically drinking it. I was using it as a "safe" alternative to other vegetable oils.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9067704

I am not going to put linoleic acid on my skin, but I am quite probably dietarily deficient in it as I have strenuously worked to reduce all polyunsaturated fatty acids, and omega-6 in particular (it remains true that arachidonic acid, one omega-6, is inflammatory)...so I will maybe add some grapeseed oil to my meals...

#37 alternativista

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 07:22 AM

This is all tripping me up a bit...now I found some (old) research that oleic acid (like in olive oil) is, to but it briefly comedogenic. I haven't been slathering it on my skin, but I've been practically drinking it. I was using it as a "safe" alternative to other vegetable oils.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9067704

I am not going to put linoleic acid on my skin, but I am quite probably dietarily deficient in it as I have strenuously worked to reduce all polyunsaturated fatty acids, and omega-6 in particular (it remains true that arachidonic acid, one omega-6, is inflammatory)...so I will maybe add some grapeseed oil to my meals...


Why would you rather consume it than apply it topically?

Uhm, do I have to apply it to damaged skin? can I apply it elsewhere?


Yes. See the above reply to Beatrice.

#38 NewBrigade

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:32 AM


This is all tripping me up a bit...now I found some (old) research that oleic acid (like in olive oil) is, to but it briefly comedogenic. I haven't been slathering it on my skin, but I've been practically drinking it. I was using it as a "safe" alternative to other vegetable oils.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9067704

I am not going to put linoleic acid on my skin, but I am quite probably dietarily deficient in it as I have strenuously worked to reduce all polyunsaturated fatty acids, and omega-6 in particular (it remains true that arachidonic acid, one omega-6, is inflammatory)...so I will maybe add some grapeseed oil to my meals...


Why would you rather consume it than apply it topically?


I'd rather consume it because Safflower oil can be comedogenic when applied topically (and Grapeseed oil is reputed to be more comedogenic, but I can't find any good sources about it).

Academic article about Safflower oil and skin (a legitimate source-- not some blog that says that something is comedogenic or not w/out citing sources):
http://ijt.sagepub.com/content/4/5/171.abstract

#39 alternativista

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:57 PM

This journal article about the role of peroxidated squalene in acne states that acne prone skin has much more squalene, and thus more peroxidated squalene http://www.ncbi.nlm....32/?tool=pubmed

It mostly about the role of oxidative stress with quite a bit of talk about mental health and various historical and current studies on the use of various antioxidants for acne

In all that talk about the excess of squalene, they never mention the deficiency in anti-inflammatory linoleic acid, though.



This is all tripping me up a bit...now I found some (old) research that oleic acid (like in olive oil) is, to but it briefly comedogenic. I haven't been slathering it on my skin, but I've been practically drinking it. I was using it as a "safe" alternative to other vegetable oils.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9067704

I am not going to put linoleic acid on my skin, but I am quite probably dietarily deficient in it as I have strenuously worked to reduce all polyunsaturated fatty acids, and omega-6 in particular (it remains true that arachidonic acid, one omega-6, is inflammatory)...so I will maybe add some grapeseed oil to my meals...


Why would you rather consume it than apply it topically?


I'd rather consume it because Safflower oil can be comedogenic when applied topically (and Grapeseed oil is reputed to be more comedogenic, but I can't find any good sources about it).

Academic article about Safflower oil and skin (a legitimate source-- not some blog that says that something is comedogenic or not w/out citing sources):
http://ijt.sagepub.c.../5/171.abstract


I wonder about the quality of oil tested since these oils are prone to oxidation which would make them comedogenic. Also, you don't have to apply it to your acne prone skin. You can apply it elsewhere. Although it would probably take longer to alter the lipid profile in your acne prone skin. Reviewers of Alladerm spot on treatment for dogs said that it took a really long time to see results.

It's just that it's not very likely that you have a dietary deficiency in linoleic acid. Several of the studies and articles I found said that the deficiency in sebum didn't necessarily correlate to a systemic deficiency. And so many people work so hard to improve their omega 3/6 ratio...

Edited by alternativista, 07 May 2012 - 05:01 PM.


#40 alternativista

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:23 PM

Another way to boost ceramides in the skin, in this article primarily about gut flora but includes info on topical probiotic use:

Streptococcus thermophilus, a species found in most yogurts, can increase ceramide production when applied to the skin for 7 days as a cream [58]. This work, which has since been replicated [59,60], is of relevance to acne, particularly when considering that some of the ceramide sphingolipids, most notably phytosphingosine (PS), provide both antimicrobial activity againstPropionibacterium acnes (P. acnes) and direct anti-inflammatory activity [61]. Sphingolipids have been noted to be low in acne [62], and the seasonal loss of ceramides may be a driving force behind much higher dermatological office visits for acne during winter months [63]. Indeed, topical application of 0.2% PS reduced papules and pustules by 89% in a recent 2-month pilot study [61].

http://www.ncbi.nlm....63/?tool=pubmed

Edited by alternativista, 07 May 2012 - 05:24 PM.





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