86 replies to this topic

[alternativista]

"But it's too expensive!"

*Neglects cost of dining out often, buying soda/coffee, price of prescriptions for health problems that can be eliminated/controlled through diet & lifestyle*

Something I was thinking about speaking with one of my old professors, perhaps there's a bit of a biological basis as to why my generation is mostly bad with these kinds of choices. The frontol lobe doesn't finish developing until mid 20s ish, and it may play a pretty big role in rational decision making. I imagine neurotoxins in foods don't exactly help either.

Yes, I read the National Geographic article on the teenage brain. Amongst other things, they are less likely to be concerned with consequences and they are much more concerned with approval of their peers (not that we didn't all know that). There are some reasons why these traits were an advantage once.

Problem is, people don't get much better later. Possibly at least partly due to the bad diets that not only don't fulfill nutritional needs, cause harm.

[alternativista]

The amount of prescription drugs the average person takes these days is incredible.

Here is a chart by age range and state. http://www.stateheal...p?ind=268&cat=5

The below Mercola articlecites national averages of

> 65 - over 31 prescriptions per year
19-64 - 11 prescriptions per year
< 19 - 4 prescriptions per year

And these are primarily for lifestyle and diet caused diseases.

And the FDA is planning to make many more prescription drugs OTC to make it easier for everyone to get them. Which most people will consider to be a good thing. Because a lack of drugs or access to drugs is what's wrong with our health... http://articles.merc...20326_DNL_art_2

Edited by alternativista, 21 May 2012 - 04:34 PM.

[artisdead]

For some people it really is too expensive. I try to eat as well as I can on a vegan diet but the area I live in does not have many options, local organic produce, deals in farmers markets, etc. I don't drink soda or coffee or eat out really ever. I'm a student and it's hard. Not everyone is just making excuses, fyi.

[alternativista]

For some people it really is too expensive. I try to eat as well as I can on a vegan diet but the area I live in does not have many options, local organic produce, deals in farmers markets, etc. I don't drink soda or coffee or eat out really ever. I'm a student and it's hard. Not everyone is just making excuses, fyi.

I don't think anywhere in this thread is a claim that everyone is sickly because they don't eat organic and local. Or anything that's blaming the people who have nothing around them except a convenience store and a McDonalds. Although, that is yet another example of how incredibly bad our diets have become.

This thread is about how incredibly bad the average diet is. Not about how the average diet isn't perfect.

Congratulations on not drinking soda though. That puts you in the minority.

Edited by alternativista, 27 March 2012 - 10:58 AM.

[dejaclairevoyant]

For some people it really is too expensive. I try to eat as well as I can on a vegan diet but the area I live in does not have many options, local organic produce, deals in farmers markets, etc. I don't drink soda or coffee or eat out really ever. I'm a student and it's hard. Not everyone is just making excuses, fyi.

Things will change over time, just keep supporting organic, natural whole foods and buying all you can. My hometown used to have NO organic food available. I moved out to the east coast to a much more "awakened" sort of area a few years ago. You can get anything here, all of it organic. And I got used to that so I've always been nervous about going home to visit because of the lack of food choices (because of my health conditions I'm not willing to eat very much conventional stuff, my body cannot handle it). But the last time I went home I was SO pleasantly surprised. The stores are now carrying a lot more organic produce, as well as gluten free options.

So have faith. My hometown is a small, not very awakened sort of community. If it's happening there, it's happening everywhere, it's just going to take time. And the more people who buy and support organic and whole foods, verses living off ramen noodles, the more options there will be.

Don't worry about the money. Just make food a priority and do whatever you have to do. If it means not buying clothes that month, taking one less class, going out one less time for a movie or coffee or whatever, just do it. Quality food is your number one priority in life. Without it, nothing else is going to matter much in the long run.

[tim12]

For some people it really is too expensive. I try to eat as well as I can on a vegan diet but the area I live in does not have many options, local organic produce, deals in farmers markets, etc. I don't drink soda or coffee or eat out really ever. I'm a student and it's hard. Not everyone is just making excuses, fyi.

Yes, not everyone is making excuses, but unfortunately most people are - which is why the thread is about general trends among populations, the average person basically. Too often students use financial aid to get new electronics, I'd be interested in seeing some figures on how many Apple products are purchased on the taxpayers dollar, but there's a good bit of anecdotal evidence. TVs, gaming consoles, expensive sneakers, it's honestly sickening how people's priorities can be - the entitled consumerist college student far outnumbers the fiscally responsible college student like yourself. Roughly 20% of students in a classroom on my campus will have a Starbucks beverage pretty much daily, for example.


"Researchers from Canterbury Christ Church University have found that smokers are more likely to stop because of anti-social attitudes towards them than from fear of ill-health."

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-03-social-smokers.html

Trying to get my hands on the study to check out their methods. If it's solid, it's honestly not that surprising. I want to get more research on cultural normativity and enforcement, it's so fascinating just going around on a daily basis and observing how people challenge what isn't the norm. I hardly ever talk about nutrition irl, and the few times I have was when friends/family came up to me to talk about how the eggs I was eating where going to spike my cholesterol, or my kale chips were weird, how meat is bad, I should have jamba juice, etc.

[alternativista]

Have you all heard the news about autism rates in the United States rising? They say now one in every 88 8-year-olds has autism. One in every fifty-something for boys. Adds to my puzzlement that so many people want to keep churning out so many kids. and the rates seem to be similar in the UK, Canada, Australia, etc.

In the seventies it was more like one in a thousand, which is also about what it currently is worldwide, but that would be partially due to a lack of diagnosis. Just like some of the increase is due to increased diagnosis and expanded definitions. But I bet they diagnose it just fine in France where they have what is often considered the best health care system in the world. And where they've found the rate to be about 5 per 10,000 people. And lower in Germany. http://sfari.org/new...cross-the-globe

One theory is that poor gut flora, inherited from parents, makes the kid vulnerable to the mercury or whatever it is in the vaccines that people think cause austism.

Edited by alternativista, 01 April 2012 - 04:04 PM.

[alternativista]

The people dying to feed you:

http://www.alternet....gX_NRX&rd=1&t=5

Highlights:

every year farmworkers are dying from thirst and heat exposure due to inadequate water and shade.

toxic pesticide exposures that send farmworkers to the hospital--up to 20,000 are poisoned annually according to the Centers for Disease Control.

currently, taxpayers subsidize agribusiness to the tune of roughly $15 billion a year--most of it benefiting large-scale production of additives for fast food and fuels that deplete our health and the environment.

Edited by alternativista, 18 December 2012 - 10:31 AM.

[onefatalgoose]

Great post alternativista. Screw the FDA/USDA and their corruption. They could give a f--- less about our health. Same goes for the medical industry (with occasional pioneers who actually are trying to inform people of this) I truly fear that americans are doomed to being reliant on prescription drugs/FDA/USDA/medical industry in order to fix their health issues.

And as someone commented earlier, people react to you as if it's a conspiracy theory. That's how much trust they have in our corrupt FDA/USDA/med industry. Such an important issue, yet so easily shrugged off

[tim12]

Sleep deprivation is adding to the metabolic syndrome epedemic.

http://www.medpageto...Disorders/32130

High sugar diets lacking in good fats could be making us stupid.

http://www.seattlepi.com/business/press-releases/article/Investigation-in-Metabolic-Syndrome-and-Brain-3473541.php

Bah, it gets me pretty sad honestly, not much I can do to help out my nieces and nephews who are already prediabetic. What's worse is that their parents, my siblings, know that the sugar is bad, but still buy soda. Then they complain about how expensive healthy eating is, but still buy a bunch of pizza, donuts, and ice cream. At this point I'm just trying to get them to stop with all the high sugar food, they already shop at places like Trader Joe's and the farmer's market I go to. All these habits are taking a toll on them, my 9 year old nephew already has blackheads and whiteheads, and so do all his older siblings. It's nuts.

Edited by tim12, 13 April 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[someonefromabove]

'tis all pretty bad, isn't it?

[tim12]

'tis all pretty bad, isn't it?

Well, it's good that more people are buying organic and stuff like that, but there are a lot of bad habits built into our culture, such as lack of exercise, high sugar intake, and false nutritional reccomendations (like "heart healthy" canola oil). Lifetimes are limited though, and people need to change asap.

[someonefromabove]

'tis all pretty bad, isn't it?

but there are a lot of bad habits built into our culture, such as lack of exercise, high sugar intake, and false nutritional reccomendations (like "heart healthy" canola oil).

I agree, but all you can really do is to live like what you think is good and emit the health personally. People see. People will continue to do what feels good to them, this is just what our modern western culture keeps telling us, or what people tell themselves. When people notice they can't carry on with a "bad" diet, they'll change. It's all the way it is, one can either talk about how bad everything is or just live the change, showing the way. Telling other people their diet sucks and they have to change won't make most people care.

Edited by someonefromabove, 13 April 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[tim12]

'tis all pretty bad, isn't it?

but there are a lot of bad habits built into our culture, such as lack of exercise, high sugar intake, and false nutritional reccomendations (like "heart healthy" canola oil).

I agree, but all you can really do is to live like what you think is good and emit the health personally. People see. People will continue to do what feels good to them, this is just what our modern western culture keeps telling us, or what people tell themselves. When people notice they can't carry on with a "bad" diet, they'll change. It's all the way it is, one can either talk about how bad everything is or just live the change, showing the way. Telling other people their diet sucks and they have to change won't make most people care.

I agree/disagree Many people stick with their bad habits till the grave. I agree that one of the best things you can do is be a living example. I never tell anyone "hey, your diet sucks and you need to change or else!" as any sort of negative approach turns them off to the idea, regardless of whether it's right or wrong. On the contrary, I approach it very passively, and gently nudge by offering things here and there, and when they enjoy a meal and ask questions, I do my best to show how approachable it is, give them resources, etc. It's also important to talk about these things when the opportunity is given, as that's how I came about this forum and changing my own diet and lifestyle. It's a complicated cultural issue as you said, and it's important to tackle it from as many angles as possible, such as removing the smoke and mirrors, being an example, friendly, and persistent.

[someonefromabove]

Yes agreed, that's a good thing to do if you ask me

[callendula]

Read this in my health magazine (Natural Health I think). Don't have my issue right here but looked up online and found this--which is about the same:

"Eating or drinking 100 grams (8 tbsp.) of sugar, the equivalent of one 12-ounce can of soda, can reduce the ability of white blood cells to kill germs by forty percent. The immune-suppressing effect of sugar starts less than thirty minutes after ingestion and may last for five hours. In contrast, the ingestion of complex carbohydrates, or starches, has no effect on the immune system."

The magazine said something like a 12oz can soda suppressed the immune system by 40% for three hours after drinking. SCARY! Who knew???? We rarely drink soft drinks here mostly because I cannot have caffeine. We can buy a 12 case of cans and it will last months. lol We are big water drinkers sprinkled with decaf tea. I'll drink a root beer here and there but I'll tell ya, I will remember this. I will prob still have one, but not if I am unwell! lol

Somewhere around Asheville, North Carolina would be good for that. In fact there are already a lot of communes and intentional living communities there. It's a pretty awakened area in a lot of ways.

really? My husband has family in Marion. Beautiful area!

[tritonxiv]

The people dying to feed you:

People are dying to protect you.

People are dying because we need oil "protection" from them.

People are dying because of lack of access to clean water, food, and basic vaccinations.

People are dying.

I fail to see how this is relevant to the topic at all.



The problem with eating healthy is that it requires time, effort, research, and money.

It's in human nature to take the path of least resistance.

Even if organic, unmodified foods gain equal footing with the mass produced stuff, there will always be a market for affordable, cheaply-made food products for the people who can't afford "premium" brands.

If natural foods are inexpensive and practical to produce to as people like alternativista claim, then we will see the shift happen eventually.

But then again, there are just some people who love their food the way it is. And like someonefromabove pointed out, getting people to change is impossible unless they want to change. (I.E. if they want to be at their absolute peak level of health) Most people don't care.

[BitterSweet098]

XX

Edited by BitterSweet098, 05 February 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[dejaclairevoyant]

Yup. Annoying, isn't it? Only one thing will save you and that is planning ahead.

[Tunnelvisionary]

I find things would be so much easier if every single restaurant ever didn't use vegetable oils.