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#1 k3tchup

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:20 AM

Okay this is my mega thread to help all those that are interested in the different things i read pretty much every day when im bored. I read tons of stuff regarding our bodies, vitamins and supplements, hormones, chemical reactions, fitness, best times to take this that or the other thing. I pretty much read anything i have questions on. I dont tend to get into anything real scientific but try to understand it and relate it back to acne and or other health issues.

This thread is meant to help people but is not in tended to cure anyone. Feel free to add your own helpful knowledge or links to great sites

So i've been trying to make the perfect vitamin regimen for myself and i've done lots of research that has lead me to finding interesting things.

What I would like to share:

First off all this is a great website on information regarding vitamins, what they work best with, destroyed by, food sources, on and on..

http://www.globalher...in_information/


Okay interesting information regarding Vitamin B6

http://www.lidtke.com/true-b6

"the synthetic form of vitamin B6 (pyridoxine HCl) cannot be used by your body without a chemical conversion known as “phosphorylation.” Researchers believe, however, that phosphorylation can be impaired by infection… even common infections, such as candidiasis. Furthermore, when the synthetic form is not converted to the active form (pyridoxal 5-phosphate), researchers speculate that it may interfere with vitamin B6 receptor sites, possibly worsening a deficiency rather than correcting it."

"B-6 can reduce the sensitivity of skin to the effects of testosterone, which in turn helps the acne cycle. It also aids in maintaining electrolyte balance and promotes red blood cell formation. Further, it is required for the synthesis of RNA and DNA, which contain the instructions for the reproduction and growth of all cells, including the epidermis that is affected by acne."

BUT, be careful as too much B6 can interfere with B5 absorption which we all know reduces oil production


B6 (P5P) is helpful in aiding in Zinc absorption which helps and is preferred over mega dosing on large doses of stand alone Zinc. I myself take L-OptiZinc (contains copper so that i dont become deficient in copper)


ALA or Alpha Lipoic Acid is a great supplement for those with insulin resistance or diabetic because it helps turn glucose into energy. It also is a unique antioxidant that helps recharge other antioxidants like C and E. It is water and fat soluble which makes it different than other antioxidants.



More info at



http://whfoods.org/g...trient&dbid=117



Antioxidants? We all know they fight free radicals, but despite what you have heard you CAN have to many antioxidants that CAN turn Pro oxidant and essential become free radicals. That is why it is necessary to have a balanced diet and or supplement plan to prevent this.



http://whfoods.org/g...george&dbid=143



I suggest everyone should read about the actions of antioxidants as its more complex than you think. Its also good to be aware of the damages of "too much of a good thing". It also makes you smarter consumer because everyone is touting "you need antioxidants" like its the new fade of decade.




Vitamin C


http://members.upnaway.com/~poliowa/How%20Vitamin%20C%20works.html


Great Read on the actions of Vitamin C. There is alot of interesting information, especially the stuff that is in bold.


A brief part that i found most interesting:



"Vitamin C is similar in structure to glucose... Vit C is a water soluble vitamin.It also uses the same receptors as glucose to enter the cell membrane. So if we have eaten a lot of simple sugars, as in sweets, cool drink etc, less Vit C can be absorbed because the receptors are already in use.

When we need Vit C we crave sweet foods

So, find your self with some sugar cravings? Eat foods high in vitamin C instead.

"The extra Vit C shuts down the oxidative energy reaction in cancer cells, inhibiting protein kinase C which increases cell division and proliferation." - I wonder if this would work for clogged pores as excess cell growth can cause cells to shed improperly and stick together causing acne. Either regulate the growth or stop the cells from sticking?


Also in that thread is information regarding minerals like calcium and magnesium. They should NOT be taken together. This is can be the reason why people have little improvement with the use supplements because without the proper information they are not going work.

======================================================================

Now for my part:

I have taken a lot of vitamins and experimented with tons of stuff and have learned from it.This is useful information for any planning or taking supplements:

Vitamin A: decreased my sebum levels, BUT i overdosed. I recognized the signs (I immediately stopped) which were for me headache of unknown origin. I felt my head feel "full" and sudden movements caused me to experience a strange headache feeling. Excessive Vitamin A can cause increase in ICP or inter-cranial pressure. This is bad. Most vitamin A overdose signs are temporary. Prolonged use causes liver damage.

Vitamin D: Cod liver form of Vitamin D caused breakouts at high doses for me. Which could be a reason why others breakout from it too so either lower the dose or go to the dry form of D (and A if needed). I take a lower amount now (400iu). Vitamin D is suggested with Vitamin A as Vitamin D increases the need for A although they can compete as they both need micelles to pas through the intestinal wall. To much A can interfere with D absorption.

Coq10: Coenzyme 10 is in simpler terms an antioxidant and provides enegry to cells. It also increases the actions of Vitamin C and E(this is a brief description). It has also been shown to aid in prevention of heart disease though this is not totally proven as there is conflicting trials. I take it because it is suggested for people with Mitral Valve problems. My mother has mitral valve prolapse and from what i was told could be genetic. My ultra sound 2 years ago showed some early signs but very nothing is conclusive. So i use it as a preventive measure.

Vitamin B5: Decreases oil production for us acne suffers. YEA! But competes with B6. A low regulary dosage is recommended over mega dosing.

ALCAR: Is an ammo acid that aids in energy production (ATP) and also increases the absorption of B5.

MSM: Sulfur compound that is great for detoxing the liver with added benefits to the skin hair and nails. Allows for better passage through cells. Basically aids in absorption of other nutrients. Down side is that it increases oil production which is why some people break out. Maybe take b5 along with?

Taurine: Some interesting stuff that im currently taking but im not sure what and how it helps acne besides the fact that it is another type of sulfurish compound that aids the body.


Zinc (picolinate or L-optiZinc) Is the bes form of zinc for absorption purposes and optizinc prevents the user from becoming copper defiecient with long time use. Zinc has many healing and anti inflammatory properties as well as acting as an anti androgen.

I read somewhere (cant find it) that too much Zinc can lead to an over production of yeast.. like candida? thats why i suggest probiotics as well just incase.


Okay im tired and going to bed now. Will finish later.

Edited by k3tchup, 01 March 2012 - 12:47 AM.

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#2 k3tchup

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 01:40 PM

To continue:

B3 (Niacin): Many people have some how become "clear' with a soluble vitamin that aids in cholesterol reduction. Well I take is as well for a couple reasons and my theories as to why it might help: Niacin is a primary vitamin that plays a role in protein, fat, and carbohydrate metabolism. Niacin is also necessary to aid in the creation of red blood cells and hormones in the body, It can also metabolize drugs and toxins. So instead of the extra fatty acids sitting in our blood and become in a sense "push out our pores" niacin metabolizes this. Sebum is essential a mix of esters, waxes, cholesterol-basically the stuff in our body that has no use for. It gets excreted by the body through our pores. Some people store fat better than others while for me being skinny i dont tend to store much fat at all (regardless of when i was exercising or not).
Its important to pay attention to the clogged pores you have. Watch the consistency of the sebum and crap that comes out. If its thick, hard plugs of crap then you might benefit from niacin. My theory is that if you sebum is more loose then it has less of a chance to clog pores and or make shedding cells stick together.. just my 2 cents

Don't over do it either.

Interesting article on niacin

http://www.doctoryou...com/niacin.html


Excercise
It does wonders for the body. We all ready know that. This doesn't mean perform 100 situps, push ups, pull ups and sprint the 100 meter dash everyday. A simple brisk walk for 30-60mins is what we need. The main thing is to be consistent.
I do not have the article available, but for us guys this is beneficial to use as it reduces the amount of free Testosterone in the body from my understanding because T. is the main muscle androgen, so it binds to the muscle androgen sites preventing it from being turned to DHT? idk just my guess

interesting explanation on DHT and T in body building (scroll down)

http://forums.steroi...on#.T0qH-_WfWHt



misc information
helps when looking for skin care products

List of pore clogging ingredients (its not a total list but i like it)

http://acnetreatment...ng-ingredients/

Edited by k3tchup, 26 February 2012 - 01:41 PM.

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#3 k3tchup

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:08 PM

interesting info i found on eds

"Blue LED helps acne by killing the bacteria, but it will not prevent or eliminate blackheads. You will have to extract the existing ones. If you avoid using clogging liquid SS, makeup, moisturizer, primers, that should help prevent more from forming. Also, very important to look at your diet. The Black Currant Oil you are taking will help, because it is an excellent source of omega 6 and linoleic acid (more than EPO). This little article from Skintactix explains this diet component:

Linoleic acid is an essential fatty acid that the sebaceous glands use as a normal component of sebum. Essential fatty acids are required by the body and most people are more familiar with linoleic as omega 6 oil, flaxseed oil, safflower oil, evening primrose oil, or a number of other terms. Essential fatty acids are very powerful anti-inflammatory agents. Subsequently, sebum made with linoleic acid is actually calming to the skin and follicles.

Modern foods have avoided essential fatty acids in favor of "designer" lipids like trans-fatty acids and research has found links suggesting that trans-fats may break down the body's supply of beneficial essential fatty acids. When linoleic acid is not available in the skin, the sebaceous glands produce sebum with oleic acid and this form of sebum is irritating to the skin. It promotes blockage that causes blackheads, whiteheads and acne. Some scientists have suggested that sebum produced with oleic acid is drier, firmer and therefore it promotes blockage within the follicles, such as blackheads and whiteheads.

Due to low consumption of essential fatty acids or high consumption of trans-fats or hereditary factors that frequently involve digestive enzyme issues, some people have systemic deficiency of essential fatty acids and linoleic acid. This condition becomes a driving factor in acne and other skin problems.

Identifying Essential Fatty Acid Deficiency: A volume of whiteheads are almost always involved with linoleic acid deficiency and they can develop very quickly. Blackheads may or may not be present. The condition may or may not have developed into acne, usually cystic acne. In most cases the skin tends to be dry and may be prone to inflammation but this may not always be the case. Generally, other forms of prescriptive and non-prescriptive acne treatments have been unsuccessful"



This persons interesting post can be found here,

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=34098

I quoted the link in this persons post which goes to a mega thread on "non acid regimen." interesting stuff

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#4 k3tchup

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:31 PM

So from my skimming you want a balanced of essential oils or EFA's/DHA, omega 3's/6's because they affect sebum consistency. Dont upset the balance and try to keep this balance more towards the anti inflammatory side of things because sequentially "sebum made with linoleic acid is actually calming to the skin and follicle"

Also regarding the link i posted as i said refers to another link about no acid regimen for acne suffers. This is essentially a diet.

Also another interesting tidbit. If your blood is acidic your urine is alkaline. If your blood is alkaline your urine is acidic. The best way to test this is to drink water at night before bed and test your urine right when you get up. This will tell you where your at. The body maintains its own pH however even slight variations of this pH can cause problems, even in the gut which can lead to a host of problems which then affects the skin.

Also, remember when taking vitamin C, take the right kind based off your blood type. like my previous Vitamin C article states

http://members.upnaway.com/~poliowa/How%20Vitamin%20C%20works.html

O
Calcium Ascorbate

A1
Sodium Ascorbate

A2
Calcium + Sodium Ascorbate

B
Calcium Ascorbate + bioflavinoids

AB
Melrose Ascorbic Acid


I being type O need to take Calcium Ascorbate which happens to be LESS acidic which is what my body needs and blood prefers which means my urine is alkaline when it should be more acidic. Confusing eh? I notice that when i take Vitamin C as Ascorbic (the most common type) my body has weird reactions to it. Everything from body aches to my eyes burning. Strange but makes sense.

The actions of vitamin C boost the immune system to fight infections, bacteria, viruses, fungi. Yea we need it, i would much rather obtain more vitamin C in my diet than apply endless topicals on my skin for years.

Vitamin C benefits.
  • promotes healing of all body cells
  • essential for building collagen
  • helps prevent cancer and heart disease
  • detoxifies the body
  • supports the good bacteria in your gut
  • kills candida, bacteria, fungi, viruses, and parasites
  • prevents hardening of the arteries
  • neutralizes harmful environmental and bacterial toxins
  • protects us from pollution and dangerous pesticides
  • destroys free radicals
  • combats stress
  • acts as an antidepressant
  • removes heavy metals like mercury and lead
  • lowers high cholesterol
moderation is key for a healthy balance.

Edited by k3tchup, 01 March 2012 - 12:55 AM.

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#5 k3tchup

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:42 PM

Well i learned a couple things:

-its advised to avoid vitamin A supps while using retinoids to avoid over exposure/toxicity. Though rare i suppose i have noticed even when taking 5000iu of cod liver oil that i feel "awkward" and my head sort of feels like i have a headache.

-Read an interesting article about vitamin D and that is being questioned regarding all its health benefits. The article stated that the only proof that they have at this point is its affect on bone loss for osteoporosis. There is no clinical evidence to prove vitamin D stops, aids, or decreases the risk of X disease or condition. I found this hard to believe considering the all the *supposed health* info we hear these days regarding vitamin D.
--I took vitamin D 1,000iu and 5000iu and both broke me out. I took the cod liver form and im guessing thats why. I kind of feel like trying the dry form of D just to see if i notice a difference.


-Want an alarm clock that doesn't wake you up via an alarm? Drink a glass or 1/2 glass of water WITH vitamin B6 at night (take zinc as well. b6 helps zinc) and you will be waking up to go to the bathroom the next day. B6 as well as others act as a natural diuretic (expel water from the body).
Hence the reason to get up and go to the bathroom. I was up at 7am this morning. Something i haven't done in YEARS people w/o an alarm. (i got to bed around midnight -1am.

-B vitamins metabolize fast on an empty stomach so eat 1-2hrs before and then just as you go to bed pop a low dose of b6 (p5p form) with zinc and go to bed.

-If that doesn't work take magnesium along side. Both act as diuretics. I've taken both in the day and well omg i was peeing every 2hrs. So beware.

-I have also started taking my individual b vitamins at night instead of in the morning for a couple reasons: b complex makes me tired and also eat more. That is because they are responsible for carb and fat metabolism. Something i do very well already. Also they affect stress via interacting with stress hormones and for some reason i became more tired than usual. I sleep better now.

-I take b3, b5, b6 at night.

-To much b3 (niacin) is known to cause flushing, though not in everyone. I found out that another symptom of too much niacin is rapid heart beat. This i had even while sitting. I was taking 400mg a day with no flush and its the flushing kind. Interesting

-b5. Pantothenic Acid vs pantethine. I read yesterday that pantethine is supposed to be better as its already the converted form of Pathothenic acid. WELL, that could be wrong. Couple reasons:
1) Pantethine is hard to manufacture and is often unstable hence the reason for gel caps
2) Is often in lower concentrations like <50% while in a gel cap compared to Pantothenic acid (rough 92% pure).
3) more expensive. obviously.
4) So say you have the same dose of each, you are less likely to get the results from pantethine because of the lower concentration of the product, which then requires the user to use mega doses.

So go for the acid type and save some money.



-Im getting vitamin C in the mail soon. Calcium ascorbate type because of my O blood type. Interesting is that this is not a common type of C to get compared to ascorbic acid. Even though O type blood is the most common blood type.. interesting.

Edited by k3tchup, 06 March 2012 - 02:55 PM.

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#6 k3tchup

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

What health conditions require special emphasis on vitamin C?
Most forms of cardiovascular disease, joint disease, cancer, eye disease, thyroid disease, liver disease, and lung disease require special emphasis on vitamin C intake. The process of aging itself requires special attention to vitamin C. In addition to these broader categories, several specific health conditions also require special emphasis on vitamin C. These specific health conditions include:
  • Acne
  • Alcoholism
  • Alzheimer's disease
  • Asthma
  • Autism
  • Depression
  • Diabetes
  • Irritable bowel disease
  • Parkinson's disease

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#7 FSAS

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 05:00 PM

do you mind people posting? if not, i really enjoy this thread so far, I have a question about vitamin C, I think I'm O+ but what about vitamin C in foods - does that mean certain vitamin c could mess with people due to blood types. im a little confused, the vitamin C i take at the moment is i think appropriate for my blood type, acutally it has 3 types of vitamin c in it asobric acid, the calcium asorbate and some other one but yeah little confused about blood type stuff

#8 k3tchup

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 09:37 PM

do you mind people posting? if not, i really enjoy this thread so far, I have a question about vitamin C, I think I'm O+ but what about vitamin C in foods - does that mean certain vitamin c could mess with people due to blood types. im a little confused, the vitamin C i take at the moment is i think appropriate for my blood type, acutally it has 3 types of vitamin c in it asobric acid, the calcium asorbate and some other one but yeah little confused about blood type stuff


No i dont mind. Like said in my first post i generally just read random stuff from now and then depending on my schedule. I used to just bookmark it.. but for what really? So i thought i would share instead.

I got my vitamin C today btw. I took a 500mg cap. No strange side effects which was nice for a change compared to when i was talking ascorbic acid. It also helped my mood a bit and a slight energy boost. The more i think about it the more i think i've been C deficient for years now. I would almost classify my symptoms as me slightly having scurvy as i used to have bleeding gums and i am noticing i have been prone more to depression within the last 2 years or so.

I think the type of C matters because of the actions of pH on the blood. Calcium ascorbate is buffered which means its not acidic and O type blood needs this. Your blood has a specific pH factor and even a 1/10 of a change is not welcoming as all kinds of things can happen. Taking the wrong C can be detrimental to the bloods pH level as it has to be converted into a form your body can use. Our bodies have buffers to prevent the blood from going too acidic or basic but over an extended period of time im guessing this isnt good. Thats why i think taking the right C works better and is easier on your body in the same manner.

Some people are better able to manage their blood pH then others so this comes into play as well. Thats why it really doesn't matter for them but people with acne well why make it hard on yourself already eh?
For me i know i feel strange when i take high doses of ascorbic acid. I took the same Vitamin C dose over 3 days and experienced the same symptoms. Today i tried the same dose different type with no side effects. So for me this information has some validity.

I dont care if anyone posts information or has questions. I'm just putting this out there for anyone who cares. Granted this isn't going to fix you totally, but the information helps.

Edited by k3tchup, 08 March 2012 - 09:40 PM.

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#9 k3tchup

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 01:08 AM

lol im becoming a skin care junkie and so is my wallet. this would be normal if i was female (no offense).

anyway interesting and good informative article regarding skin care ingredients and what they are used for. I find it a good reference when buying and testing new products.

http://my.clevelandc...e_products.aspx

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#10 k3tchup

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:27 PM

In search of what is causing my Hyperkeratinization which i believe is the main reason why i break out (read up on this) i found this thread linked below. It is a great read related to follicular hyperkeratosis and 'Phrynoderma. Both are mistaken as acne because the processes involved that lead to this same stuff (im being vague here).

Retin a is causing my breakouts and hperkeratinization now, which leads to cysts and other bumps that i've battled for years. However i notice when i use retin a it works quicker (i see results faster) and the results = breakout where as when i was using it . I never noticed anything before in the months i was using it and it helped then. Retin a helps normalize kertinization but im guessing i over did it and am. So i am stopping completely and going to AHA's because they help slough off the dead cells that my pores get clogged with because of my excessive shedding. Duh i should have found this sooner.

back to the link

www.keratosispilaris.org/general-discussion/3628-i-have-hit-breakthrough-part-2-a.html


What i found interesting:

Ok so already we can see that it isn't just Vitamin A that may be causing our KP but other nutrients including Vitamin E, B vitamins and Essential Fatty Acids. This answers a lot of peoples questions as to why their KP did not clear up with just the supplementation of Vitamin A. And it is also really interesting because a lot of people have had their Kp clear up with the use of essential fatty acids. And did you know that Vitamin A's absorprtion is increased with intake of good fats. So perhaps these people weren't deficient in vitamin A but just didnt have enough essential fatty acids to absorb Vitamin A.

See this is why everyone is individual! And not one thing is going to work for everyone as some individuals are going to be healthier than others and will not be deficient in all of these nutrients compared to others that may.
Here is more information to suggest why some people may have KP worse than others:
"Topping the list of those who are most vulnerable to vitamin A (beta-carotene) deficiencies are pregnant women, breast-feeding mothers, those who abuse alcohol or drugs and people who are undergoing excess stress for long periods of time. Patients who suffer from gastrointestinal problems (e.g IBS, constipation, diarrhea, celiacs/crohns/candida/parasites) require an adequate supply of the vitamin"


Also did you know that Vitamin A is actually absorbed in the small intestine?
And did you know that if you are lactose or wheat intolerant, this is the exact place where the molecules irritate the small intestine. Which means if u are eating foods that constantly irritate this area, your body produces mucous to help protect the small intestine from the constant irritation of dairy and wheat preventing you from absorbing the Vitamin A. This is why it is ideal to avoid lactose (dairy products). Wheat intolerances are seen in people with celiacs/chrons disease.



I bolded the last paragraph as this will help anyone understand why to avoid dairy and or wheat and also helps us understand why and also is a reason why we can get acne because our vitamin A levels are low. Vitamin A controls sebum and cell shedding.

link to first part

http://www.keratosispilaris.org/general-discussion/6011-what-causes-could-actually-treat-keratosis-pilaris.html

Edited by k3tchup, 09 March 2012 - 09:32 PM.

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#11 k3tchup

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:48 PM

So crap, im becoming anemic. I have been taking magnesium and zinc (at night), Both are great of course because of their benefits. However, today i noticed i was becoming anemic which explains why i've become more tired at night (although i sleep better) and having to take breaks from my running.

My iron absorption is being impaired by zinc(and copper) and magnesium as they all compete for absorption. So as a lesson for others watch your mineral intake and watch for side effects or symptoms as they can be a sign of a supplement caused deficiency.


This examples why i have been CARVING LIKE MAD sugary foods and meats as well. As described above vitamin C and glucose share the same absorption site. Vitamin C increases the bioavaibility of iron. So, I will keep taking C and stop magnesium and only take zinc at night. I hope this aenemia is short lived as i will now have to increase my iron intake.

Basically the best conclusion is: your body knows best. The problem is we just have to be able to recognize what are bodies are saying. And we are slow learners.

My goals today:

1) Affects of Vitamin A on skin growth and division
2) Affects of Vitamin D on skin " " - also find out why i break out on higher IU's
3) Do b vitamins increase cell growth? If so which ones?

Either a person manages cell proliferation and kertinization through topicals like retin a or through supplementing. Dieting for me is out of the question. Retin A is not helping and only making things worse. Supplements like NAG can help by preventing lectins from causing cells to stick together when shedding (which can cause clogged pores, cysts like i get). Although not all the things NAG would bind to are bad.. which has me wary of using it. I dont want another deficiency.



Aww i should have made this a blog on my own profile. Oh well who cares.

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#12 k3tchup

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 03:00 AM

My goals today:

1) Affects of Vitamin A on skin growth and division
2) Affects of Vitamin D on skin " " - also find out why i break out on higher IU's
3) Do b vitamins increase cell growth? If so which ones?


So did some research and looking around. Found a couple interesting articles.

First off a great reference article on different Cosmeceutical ingredients and what they do and their uses. On the left i found the "other" tab had some pretty interesting info in it. Even talked Zinc pyrithione which is found in Head and Shoulders. I had no idea its an antimicrobial agent.

http://emedicine.med...778-overview#a1

1) Vitamin A- well all i could find for now is its topical useage and how its suppose to regulate and control cell renewal. Though I know like differin it can cause break outs later down the road. I've read that even after months of use both products can still cause IB symptoms. My guess is because its causing to much cell renewal. And along with diet (like excess b vitamins and extra vitamin A) it can probably lead to to much hence more breakouts? Again they say to avoid A intake when on retinoids to avoid to much. Idk..

2) Vitamin D on the other hand, I've been able to find info on.

http://ods.od.nih.go...thProfessional/

"Vitamin D has other roles in the body, including modulation of cell growth, neuromuscular and immune function, and reduction of inflammation [1,3,4]. Many genes encoding proteins that regulate cell proliferation, differentiation, and apoptosis are modulated in part by vitamin D [1]. Many cells have vitamin D receptors, and some convert 25(OH)D to 1,25(OH)2D."

So lack of D can affect the way cells grow essentially. Being that im in a northern state and dont see much sun i would be more likely prone for a deficiency. Though i've always had fair skin and have never really tanned much (except last year). To much D i suppose could influence acne in a negative way, but im kind of doubting D and focusing more on the form a person takes it in (dry vs cod liver oil). So i might give vitamin D a try.

3) B vitamins:

http://www.vitamins-...b-vitamins.html

http://www.vmdskinca...ngredients.html

"The American Academy of Dermatology states that vitamins B3 (niacin) and B5 (pantothenic acid) help hold in moisture. Well-hydrated skin is less likely to become irritated, thereby unleashing a chain of events that injures tissue and hastens skin aging.One industry study tested the combination containing pantothenic acid, niacin, and vitamin E on skin with rosacea, a condition of dry, ruddy, rough skin that irritates easily. Skin treated with this product experienced a 36% increase in hydration. In another study, B vitamins were shown to be effective exfoliators; that is, they removed dead surface skin cells that clump up and make skin texture appear dull."

Now this is an exert from the second link which has both topical and supplemental info for rebuilding skin.


This is quite long and quite scientific though i found it a good read about exfoliation and the different products that can aid/correct skin exfoliation,'

An interesting note is that it mentions SA/BHA in higher concentrations helping PIH (i didnt know this, though ive heard of the chemical peel being used and thought it was like anything else). Also lactic acid is the AHA that is actually hydrating to the skin. Didnt know that either. Though i think imo Glyolic is better. Malic for me is too irritating.

http://www.internationaldermalinstitute.com/idi/newIDIhome/txtonly_NEW/skinexfoliation.htm

Edited by k3tchup, 11 March 2012 - 03:09 AM.

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#13 k3tchup

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:18 AM

So i was one of those ppl that joined the b5 train because i thought sebum = acne so lets reduce sebum with b5. Sure this works in that it can reduce oil production in oily people. Well ive never been oily at all and if anything i've made my self oily from the things i've done to my skin. Damn...

So back reading different things and I've been looking up ingredients in skin care products when i came across some interesting info:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1473-2165.2011.00597.x/abstract

"Topically applied l-carnitine effectively reduces sebum secretion in human skin"

So people say to take L-carnitine while taking b5 to aid in its absorption. Yet, topically this "almost vitamin" does exactly what b5 is supposed to do which makes me wonder which is really working.

I was taking both and it seemed to work, but it is to be noted that L-carnitine increases metabolism as its used in weight loss products to burn fat..

ALCAR is the bio available form of L-carnitine btw and is preferred as it can cross the blood brain barrier. I also remember reading somewhere that it can increase seritonin levels which in turn increase melatonin levels as you need one for the other? Anyway it would explain why when i was taking it i actually slept easier compared to now since i've stopped taking it i dont sleep as easy. My internal clock is messed up. This shall (hopefully) fix it.

http://www.cellhealthmakeover.com/acetyl-l-carnitine.html

"The principal food dietary sources of Carnitine are meat and dairy products, but to obtain therapeutic dosages a supplement is necessary. L-Carnitine works best when combined with CoQ10."

Take both with fat and some sodium. So this would be great to take when eating breakfast atleast for me as i usually eat 3-4 packets of Quaker Oatmeal which at my rate has lots of fats and sodium for absorption.


Makes sense to me atleast because i stopped using ALCAR because i figured it was making me eat too much (which is true) but at the same time i have gradually had an increase in the type of breakouts i never ever got (whiteheads mostly) even though my b5 dosage stayed the same.

Though i have found Vitamin C to decrease my appetite or should I say cravings to eat periodically throughout the day. There have been times where I have ate basically a meal every hour of the day that i was awake. Terrible. I have noticed that I have little desire to eat/snack as often.

SO my regimen (supplements) I will continue:
fish oil
coq10
MSM
Vitamin C
add ALCAR

PM
Zinc
Vitamin C

*im undecided on whether i should use b5..

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#14 k3tchup

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:24 PM

Npt sure entirely what this means, but i found it interesting as I was browsing sebum on wikipedia.

"It is a common misconception that a blocked sebaceous gland is known as a sebaceous cyst. Cysts that are commonly called sebaceous cysts actually do not involve a sebaceous gland. Instead, they are collection of dead keratinocytes which develop within the epidermal skin layer. These cysts are called Epidermal Cysts."

I suffer from this i think. I've been to the doctor twice in the past year for "lumps" or cysts-one in my ear lobe (strange eh) and one in my neck and i've had numerous in my neck/back. I've always been told there sebaceous cysts. Well this could be a miss diagnosis in a way as its actually a epidermal cyst caused by build up of dead skin.

In order to combat that a person must use exfoliating products, ones that penetrate skin oils to go into the pore and ones that remove the dead skin off the epidermis. These would be AHA's and BHA's.

I'm getting samples of an AHA cleanser as i have used BHA cleansers and they really haven't done much. At night im going to use sulfur soap as it has many benefits-antibacterial, antifungal, acts as a shedding agent much like AHA's.

As far as B5 and ALCAR well i did an experiment and did 1 day with and one day without. I really think without its better. B5 i think would have to be needed in a bigger dose to be noticeable in oily people therefore not advised. I've done it and i really cant comment that it has worked like it did when i first started back in January. I do notice or have noticed my hair to be drier and my lips during the day i took it to be more dry as well. This is a sign it works but not a desirable side effect.

I think topically controlling your oil is better than popping mega doses of b5. I also think changing your sebum make up makes a difference to. Sebum is mostly made up of triglycerides so get the good fats in your diet, the anti inflammatory ones along with stuff that lowers LDL and raises HDL. This will change your sebum to be less irritating in the hair follicles which can lead to less inflammatory acne, and maybe less acne in general. It could be a reason why people have success with Niacin.

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#15 k3tchup

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:01 PM

Its been a couple days- busy with work and such- but so far improving ever so slightly. Sucks when you get set backs.

I purchased "synergy basic" from vitacost because I seen myself getting deficient in different types of vitamins. I got the one that requires you to take 2 capsules. Although im only starting with one to be wary of things like Iodine (which is a controversial acne subject) and to see how it goes.

When we use supplements its to SUPPLEMENT what we don't get enough of.. not to replace which is easy to do when searching for a cure in a sense.Keep this in mind. Although these things can work like Zinc and b5 ect ect be careful as you can turn your body from working great into just the opposite doing more harm then good. I'm not satisfied with "oh its nothing it will go away" If i get some kind of side effect that is undesirable or notice my self becoming fatigued for example im right here googling side effects and affects on other nutrients.So again be careful.

So I will take this along with fishoil, MSM, ALCAR, and vitamin C. I then take Zinc (optizinc) and C at night. I'm only taking extra C because of the following
1) believe im deficient
2) helps with sugar cravings
3) needed for collagen production because im using copper peptides on 1 scar i have (take along with MSM)
4) I read that C helps with Oil regulation. Im not sure how exactly this works but its supposed to help the body/skin be moisturized/hold moisture while regulating oil production. Im guesting its an indirect relationship than lets say Vitamin A.

Can I vouch for vitamin C's affect on skin To a point yes:
I dont need a moisturizer and yet my skin feels so "plump" so "dewy" Yet im not only..which is a strange feeling as it almost feels like it
I notice that the clogged pores, comedones i did have recently were absent of oil, or contained very little. And im not take b5.

As far as the others:
1) fish oil, anti inflamatory not just for acne but also for my joints since i run alot
2) MSM, along with C helps in healing, great for joints, liver detox, sulfur is needed for skin in many ways, also increase permeability of cells to allow nutrients to enter/exit with ease. Helps body hold moisture? MSM has some many benefits its too long to list.
3)ALCAR -energy production, to be alert and focused, helps with metabolism of fats/carbs.
4) Zinc- well known as to why here.. nothing new.

I haven't done much research lately as i have been busy though I have re-vamped my skin care regimen because I see the need for keratolytic agents. These products also know as AHA's and BHA's are crucial in preventing clogged pores which can then lead to the cell wall rupturing and leaking its "stuff" into the dermis therefore creating nodules ranging from small to very large quarter size or bigger -my problem.

Its when bacteria get involved (whiteheads) that this is when its gets confusing. Do you use something like a cleanser that is antibacterial? or do you use a BHA cleanser/lotion? Well, if your getting the closed comedones and ones that aren't whiteheads then you need AHA's and BHA's. Specifically AHA's because they prevent the top layer of skin from clogging the pores and the BHA's encourage shedding while strengthening the pore wall to prevent its collapse. BHA's affect on skin lasts longer than AHA's although both are needed.

If you can prevent the comedones than you dont need to treat via antibacterial route aka BPO, TTO, etc. although they do help. I use sulfur soap at night only as its a shedding agent and also is anti fungal/bacterial. So go this route if you can.

THis is what i have found out... anyway on my search.

Edited by k3tchup, 19 March 2012 - 10:10 PM.

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#16 k3tchup

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:54 PM

also interesting that im not sure is related but thought i should share. so we all know h20 or water is like the most benefitial thing you can do to help your acne. i don't need to go on and on about it though some days i feel like i hardly drink any water which i would assume is okay now and then but not good overall. By using supplements like vitamin C they act as diuretics that expel water from the body, well that has to be replaced which then increase your water intake. So it can help you actually drink more water, though not entirely other factors come into play as well like a topical regimen for example. The more drying and moisture evaporation from the skin means the more the skin most compensate.

Just a thought anyway.

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#17 lmaohf

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:05 PM

hi ketchup! I have read pretty much all the things you posted in this thread and I have learned many things. may I know what is your regimen as of now? including diet, topicals and supplementation. Thank you for all your efforts putting this information here, any kind of help is appreciated.

#18 k3tchup

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 10:31 PM

In my free time (which is basically non existant these days) i looked up every little thing under the sun and tried every thing i could possibly afford. Did it work? Yes and no.

My current regimen is simple. Dan's. I use the bp am and pm, with jojoba oil as moisturizor, and aha to spot treat only. It works and is the best direct method for treating acne in my case. I started using Dan's full line in late august or so.

I regularly excercise (around 1-3 nights a week; usually weekends due to college).

As far as supplements, i will still use zinc (with copper to prevent copper deficiency) when i feel my self "getting down" i use it in the same mind set as those that take vitamin c when they think they're getting the common cold. It seems to help although i take i after i eat 1-2hrs in the day, not night because the dreams (which is a side effect) are just to damn weird, and sometimes scary.

Other than that i pretty much threw out all my supplements and try to eat healthier that way. Which would mean i try to get adequate intake of vitamin A, C, D (from the sun), and whole grains which usually have the b vitamins. I opt always for whole grain options and even started eating oatmeal in the morning or fortified cereal like cheerios with apple juice (a substitue for milk). This way im not getting to much of the same vitamins i talked about because i was experience adverse affects when taking supplements which did prompt a hospital visit in late april of this year and was my sign to "lay off the meds".

Supplements did help, but its a joint effort to eating better, including some sort of exercise, and then a topical regimen that is simple- like dan's bp and a gentle cleanser such as cetaphil (which is what i am using). Its better this way than expensive or elaborate products. I do not like to use bp because of the many things i have read in the past, but do you really want to argue when it works?.. Not really.

That is all i do and i hope this helps. I am soo busy... unbelievably busy that i just dont care about the research anymore nor do i care as much since i got this pain in the ass undercontrol most of the time, so i probablly wont update the thread. best of luck.



on a side note, i did learn that supplements like all mentioned eventually reach a plateau effect in the body at some point. I dont remember where i read it but its in my one of my college books. Anyway it rememinded me why people that took Niacin had a short term effect of becoming clear, but after a period of time the body corrected its self, got use to the dose, or the dose became ineffective, and then no longer worked. Strange but it made sense. So don't over do it people and remember supplements are just that, supplements to what we don't normally get. You don't need 100,000IU of vitamin A or B5... just a terrible idea to begin with.

Edit: i just remember looking back on my experiences with vitamins and alternative therapies i remember that too much omega's led to in inbalance because of my then diet which led to only problems after i kept taking them for an extended period of time. So word to the wise would be start with a lower dose, and make sure that you eat other foods to help balance the extra stuff you are taking. I also developed an allergy to the fish that was used to supply the omega 3/6's when takin in large doses. Vitamin C worked, and made me feel "alive" however lead to big time break outs after to much. 300mgs is the RDA i think and i was using 500mg. So reducing that would have probably helped as i still get my vitamin C just in a diffferent source. The b vitamins didn't help much at all after awhile and after i stopped taking them. Although b6 did help alot with sleep because i had sleep problems than. Now i do not (crossed fingers) this i thing is due to a variety in my diet and increased b12/b6 as both i believe help with sleep.

MSM was strange as it helped so much in many aspects of my life, but also led to fluid retention for me, and after awhile didnt work. I feel it caused me to become more oily as well. I think a smaller dose would be benefiticial as it helps so much with hair, skin, and nails.

ALCAR helped me burn fat...but thats about it. Enegry wise it didn't really help after awhile and only made me extremely hungry.

coq10 helped with muscles and joints but nothing more. overal waste.

i think this "stuff" might depend on the situation, the person, and the amount. Some people need grams of pill X to get the desired effect and others like me see results but after awhile it just doesnt work. If was to take something it would be a low dose multivitamin, and MSM, maybe an omega 3-maybe.. that would depened really.

Edited by k3tchup, 14 September 2012 - 10:48 PM.

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#19 lmaohf

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 03:30 PM

first of all, thank you for your very detailed reply. I appreciate it very much, As much as I can, I too don't want to take all those supplements, Its as if I feel like a nuclear reactor, but I quit using the BP because I think its not for me, I am leaning towards the natural things, like apple cider vinegar and green tea applied topically, sorry to bother you about my questions, Thank you very much for your reply! Best of luck, God bless