71 replies to this topic

[4Fours]

Anyway, I have done TONS of research on natural remedies for hormones, but I always find contradictory things said about phytoestrogens. I've heard they increase estrogen but I've also heard they decrease estrogen. Which is it?

Plant estrogens are much weaker so have less of an impact. So if you are low estrogen, they help by performing some of your estrogen functions. If you have excess estrogen, phytoestrogen may help by binding to receptors so that your stronger estrogen can't.

So you're saying that plant estrogens can help, but I'm guessing that other types like soy etc. (which I wouldn't take anyway) are trickier?


It's so confusing. There are certain vegetables that are said to increase estrogen and others that are said to decrease it. I don't even think I want to play around with it. I'll just eat whichever veggies I want, because I'm afraid if I overload on certain types (increasing/decreasing) I'll end up giving myself an imbalance. I think exercise helps a lot with hormones too as long as it's not too overdone.

OP: Do you exercise?

Yes, I exercise. I walk my dog for about an hour a day, yoga and cardio ballet once a week. I am pretty underweight (5'5, about 115 lbs) so I don't really do it to lose weight. It also helps my depression.

The broccoli in the Hormone Balance I am on now were described to me to help your body metabolize estrogen from your body faster. We are supporting my estrogen, even though it is in a good range, because there are 3 types of estrogen. E2 is the most potent out of the three, which I think is the one that get metabolized with the broccoli. The other two are just as necessary, but not as potent, so they need more help. That's how it was explained to me.

My forehead and chin are mostly clear (probably from the Differin and Aczone), but now the cheeks on either sides of my mouth are breaking out in clusters...3-4 non-inflamed blemishes in the same area on each side, which is weird because I don't usually break out there. I am right before my period, so it's not unusual that I am breaking out. I guess I should be glad it's not any worse. Just odd since the only thing that has changed is this new supplement routine.

Just out of curiosity, why did you go off the Spiro?

[4Fours]

Just an update: The Hormone Balance supplement with broccoli and DIM seems to really be helping. My skin is a lot clearer, just still recovering from those non-inflamed blemishes on my cheek area. But I think either the Differin or Aczone is causing my PIH to be worse. It seems like areas that were already healed and gone are coming back as red marks now I might try scaling back on those, and see if it is really the DIM and broccoli that are helping me. But other than that, my skin is mostly clear. I just hope the Hormone Balance doesn't stop working after 3 months, like I have read elsewhere.

[*`*~ABG Fairy~*`*]

Great to hear The Hormone Balance is helping!! Hoping it continues.

I thought of you the other day, because I've been researching brain training exercises, and I discovered one that has some really great research behind it. It's called Dual-n-Back and can be played online for free. People that play it for 20 minutes a day for 19 days can greatly improve fluid intelligence. It trains your working memory skills which helps with learning in general and even ADD, OCD and depression--which made me want to share it with you!

[4Fours]

OOooh, interesting! Thanks for sharing, I will definitely check it out. And you reminded me I have to renew my checked out copy of "The Ultra-mind solution" from the library

[*`*~ABG Fairy~*`*]

ha!! Overdue library books...I've definitely had a few of those! Let me know what you think of Dual-n-Back! MindSparke has a paid version that allows you to chart your progress and mixes it up a bit, but if you can stand the free version, I'd just stick with that!

[4Fours]

Another update:
Like I feared, the DIM/Broccoli isn't helping as much now. I keep breaking out on the apples of my cheeks, back and forth: 2 on the left side, then they heal, then 3 on the right side). My forehead and chin are pretty clear, so I can't complain too much. Just chasing that perfect complexion I once had. I will still take the Hormone Balance for my Estrogen Dominance, and if it helps my acne a tad, then great. But it has just proven to me that my acne is hormonal. Aczone is helping treat the actives.

In a related story, my depression has been so much better. I haven't been super depressed in a few months. Balancing my hormones has really helped, and again, this is proving to me that my problems are hormonal (as opposed to some deep seeded flaw within me). I feel better than I did when I was on SSRI's, which is a miracle. I'm hoping my body catches onto what my naturopath and I are trying to do, and starts balancing it's own hormones so I can ween off this stuff that is making my acne worse.

I was considering doing IPL, but I might cancel my appointment.

[alternativista]

Yeah, many people found dim to be a temporary miracle. Did you read the dim thread I link to in the hormone section of my thread?

[4Fours]

Yeah, many people found dim to be a temporary miracle. Did you read the dim thread I link to in the hormone section of my thread?

I did and I asked my Naturopath about it and she said she has never seen it stop working for someone... so I was still holding out hope. In all honesty, it's something I was taking for reasons other than acne, so I wasn't expecting a cure.

[alternativista]

Yeah, many people found dim to be a temporary miracle. Did you read the dim thread I link to in the hormone section of my thread?

I did and I asked my Naturopath about it and she said she has never seen it stop working for someone... so I was still holding out hope. In all honesty, it's something I was taking for reasons other than acne, so I wasn't expecting a cure.

That thread had a lot of talk about phases and liver support and whatnot in addition to DIM use.

[4Fours]

Yeah, many people found dim to be a temporary miracle. Did you read the dim thread I link to in the hormone section of my thread?

I did and I asked my Naturopath about it and she said she has never seen it stop working for someone... so I was still holding out hope. In all honesty, it's something I was taking for reasons other than acne, so I wasn't expecting a cure.

That thread had a lot of talk about phases and liver support and whatnot in addition to DIM use.

I'm on a ton of supplements for things other than acne. Like I said, if I was just trying to treat acne, I might do things differently. But since I am battling PMDD (depression-based) and frequent migraines, my hands are more tied.

I should add that the latest breakout after I started the progesterone tincture that I take on days 15-28 of my cycle. So, it's more likely that this latest break out (2-4 pimples) is from that. It's hard for me to tell, because my hormones fluctuate so much. Also, I had soy for the first time in months the other night, so that could have contributed as well. We'll see...

Edited by 4Fours, 10 May 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Jamie Sue]

instead of raising your progesterone, why not try reducing the bad estrogens in your body? I noticed while progesterogen helped some, it still broke me out with more inflamations around my mouth and the middle of my back. Since I stopped with the cream, and recently vitex, those areas have cleared up but I am breaking out more on my shoulders again and getting more small closed comedones especially on chest. I duno which I hate more but DIM has showed me great improvements and I have been losing so much weight! DIM helps motabolise those nasty bad estrogens we are constantly exposed to, I can tell my motabolism is benefiting from it! Also, maybe you should try taking some DHT blockers? Allot of people are starting to believe DHT is what is causing hormonal acne. Just started takingt stinging nettle, which is similar to saw palmetto but no reports of weight gain with stinging nettle. I hope this stuff helps! I will let you know if it does. Just keep working with yourself! maybe you are insulin resistance? I believe this is a major factor to acne. Stinging nettle is also suppose to help with insulin resistance so you can't go wrong with this herb!

Oh on a side note, I have hypothyroidism and break out more when I take synthroid... Ugh and sweat more too. I am only 18 and thing my hormonal imbalances have caused a low thyroid.


I will never stop until I'm clear! Hope you wont either just keep trying!

[4Fours]

instead of raising your progesterone, why not try reducing the bad estrogens in your body? I noticed while progesterogen helped some, it still broke me out with more inflamations around my mouth and the middle of my back. Since I stopped with the cream, and recently vitex, those areas have cleared up but I am breaking out more on my shoulders again and getting more small closed comedones especially on chest. I duno which I hate more but DIM has showed me great improvements and I have been losing so much weight! DIM helps motabolise those nasty bad estrogens we are constantly exposed to, I can tell my motabolism is benefiting from it! Also, maybe you should try taking some DHT blockers? Allot of people are starting to believe DHT is what is causing hormonal acne. Just started takingt stinging nettle, which is similar to saw palmetto but no reports of weight gain with stinging nettle. I hope this stuff helps! I will let you know if it does. Just keep working with yourself! maybe you are insulin resistance? I believe this is a major factor to acne. Stinging nettle is also suppose to help with insulin resistance so you can't go wrong with this herb!

Oh on a side note, I have hypothyroidism and break out more when I take synthroid... Ugh and sweat more too. I am only 18 and thing my hormonal imbalances have caused a low thyroid.


I will never stop until I'm clear! Hope you wont either just keep trying!

Thanks for your reply!

I have to raise my progesterone because as I've said before in this thread, I have depression that is caused my estrogen dominance. When I decrease the progesterone support, I get VERY depressed. I'm not on progesterone cream. I'm on progesterone support, which helps my body makes it's own progesterone. My estrogen is at a good level, within range... it's just that my progesterone is low. I avoid everything that would increase my progesterone: plastics, soy, flax, BC, etc.

I'll ask my doc about the DHT blockers. I have thought about incorporating stinging nettle, I'll look into that more. My blood results are good, and I am underweight if anything, so insulin resistance is probably unlikely. I feel confident that my acne is made worse by my progesterone supplement (it's pretty managable when I'm not on it).

I haven't ever taken synthroid, only a compound and Naturethroid. I have heard nightmare stories about Armour and Synthroid. I am tolerating the Naturethroid well, I would recommend it.

My skin is actually super clear right now. I had 3 pimples and one cyst, but they are fading now and ATM my skin is looking good. I bought some arnica oil, and am using it in my Oil Cleanser as well as some tumeric. I used the arnica as a spot treatment on the cyst and I think it helped it go away faster.

[LoveGreenSmoothies]

I actually think they can't measure estrogens produced by xenoestrogens. I'm not sure, of course, but I think it may be an entirely different estrogen than what is typically measured in labs. They have three estrogens: estradiol, estrone, and another one I can't think of. Those are estrogens produced by your fat, ovaries etc, i.e. your body. Xenoestrogens are an outside source of estrogen, so I'm wondering if they don't show up on labs.

Just a thought.

My endo (which is caused by high estrogen) has gotten so much better from green smoothies. And I have no acne. They're phytoestrogens, so I think they're clearing out the xenoestrogen junk. My labs were NEVER high in estrogen or low in progesterone, but I still had all the symptoms of E dominance.

I don't now.

[4Fours]

I actually think they can't measure estrogens produced by xenoestrogens. I'm not sure, of course, but I think it may be an entirely different estrogen than what is typically measured in labs. They have three estrogens: estradiol, estrone, and another one I can't think of. Those are estrogens produced by your fat, ovaries etc, i.e. your body. Xenoestrogens are an outside source of estrogen, so I'm wondering if they don't show up on labs.

Just a thought.

My endo (which is caused by high estrogen) has gotten so much better from green smoothies. And I have no acne. They're phytoestrogens, so I think they're clearing out the xenoestrogen junk. My labs were NEVER high in estrogen or low in progesterone, but I still had all the symptoms of E dominance.

I don't now.

I'm confused. I have never argued that I need more estrogen, and certainly I don't want xenoestrogens. I am avoiding things that would give me excess estrogens, more than the average person I would argue. Like I said in my previous post, I avoid plastics, soy, flax, BC, etc. I'm not sure what good testing for xenoestrogens would be when I am already treating for estrogen dominance.

Did you take blood or saliva hormone tests?

[LoveGreenSmoothies]

You definitely didn't understand my post. I was saying that I don't think xenoestrogens can be measured, so you may have higher estrogen than you know.It may be why your progesterone if off. Your estrogen may be high w/o showing up on labs bc of this.

I had blood done and none of my values were off, but I still had symptoms of high estrogen and high androgens. I think it was xenoestrogens.

Sorry this sounds harsh but my PC is totally acting up right now and it's annoying me being on it right now, lol. I can barely see what I'm writing.

[4Fours]

You definitely didn't understand my post. I was saying that I don't think xenoestrogens can be measured, so you may have higher estrogen than you know.It may be why your progesterone if off. Your estrogen may be high w/o showing up on labs bc of this.

I had blood done and none of my values were off, but I still had symptoms of high estrogen and high androgens. I think it was xenoestrogens.

Sorry this sounds harsh but my PC is totally acting up right now and it's annoying me being on it right now, lol. I can barely see what I'm writing.

From my understanding, progesterone wouldn't be "off" from high estrogen levels. They come from two different precursors. Cortisol is a precursor for progesterone, and when your body gets stressed and you are in adrenal fatigue, your body "steals" cortisol and you aren't left with enough to make progesterone. So, estrogen dominance is actually progesterone deficiency.

But even if my xenoestogens are high, I am on the same treatment as I would be if I knew my estrogen is high: supporting progesterone, on DIM and broccoli to help metabolize excess estrogen from my body and avoiding xenoestrogens such as soy, plastics, etc.... generally trying to bring the ratio between estrogen and progesterone up. What, in your opinion, am I doing wrong? What more should I be doing? (note: the support of progesterone is very necessary for me because when I try to ween down from it, I get thrown right into depression.)

[LoveGreenSmoothies]

I doubt DIM works that well long term, because people are always saying it stops working. I think maybe the xenoestrogens adapt to it, because they're adaptive and mutagenic by nature unlike natural estrogens produced by the body. It's good to avoid xenoestrogenic things, but with our environment it's impossible.

What to do is the 1 million dollar question. If I knew that I'd be a millionaire. Xenoestrogens are a real problem.

I think progesterone decreases by working to eliminate estrogens too, so if your estrogen is high you're using more of it than if it weren't.

I never said you were doing anything wrong, just that your estrogen may be high without you knowing it since I don't think xenoetrogens are measurable. You keep saying your estrogen is normal and I don't think it is or you wouldn't have symptoms of estrogen dominance. My estrogen and progesterone were both completely normal but I had signs of estrogen dominance, so I think xenoestrogens are not measurable in labs. Who even knows if progesterone counteracts them? What I'm saying in all of these posts are that xenoestrogens are a wildcard and not enough is known how to combat them since they're a new problem.

Anyway, green smoothies are helping me a lot, especially with brussel sprouts which is a potent fighter against too much estrogen. Hopefully it continues to work. My endo is basically gone. I had terrible bloating and pain from it to the point I looked at least 3 months preggo but that's all gone without losing weight. So, I'm suggesting you add smooothies to your diet to balance your hormones.

I still can't see what I'm writing due to PC issues so don't mind my typos etc.

[4Fours]

My progesterone is low still, that's why I have symptoms of estrogen dominance. To quote myself: estrogen dominance is actually progesterone deficiency. I never said progesterone counteracts xenoestrogens, but it does counteract my depression. That's my #1 issue. Then the progesterone causes my acne, I know this because when I decrease it, my acne goes away but my depression comes back. I started this thread because I am wondering why progesterone has helped so many women here on the org, but causes acne for me. I feel like I'm in Groundhog's Day, this is the same phrase in the first post I made about this. I'm not arguing that xenoestrogens aren't a major problem, but I don't think they are causing my acne.

Sorry I sound frustrated, but I keep repeating this over and over again. I have been seeing a naturopath for 2 years who has majorly helped me, depression, energy, headaches, etc. Right now my acne is a lot better now than it was when I started this thread, I am mostly clear... just lots of red marks. Even if the DIM doesn't last forever, hopefully it will last until I can ween down from the progesterone.

I juice local organic CSA veggies, is that different than smoothies?

[LoveGreenSmoothies]

What are CSA veggies? Do you use brussel sprouts or broccoli in them? The cruciferous veggies really help with estrogen dominance.

Have you tried vitex? That's what my naturopath had me use to raise progesterone and it didn't give me acne. In fact it helped it. I know you're on something natural but don't think it was vitex.

Edited by LoveGreenSmoothies, 09 June 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[alternativista]

What are CSA veggies?

Community supported agriculture.