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Subcision-Suction Method:

foe acne scars subcision

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#1 Sam

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:47 PM

As anyone tried this method themself on acne scars,if so,which is the best suction divice and where did you buy it from and at what price?

http://www.owndoc.co...-acne-scars.pdf

#2 10yearswiththis

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:33 PM

As anyone tried this method themself on acne scars,if so,which is the best suction divice and where did you buy it from and at what price?

http://www.owndoc.co...-acne-scars.pdf


Thanks I've looking for the full study article on this, not just the abstract.

FYI.....mr matt, aka "the man in the mirror" has had 4 subcisions done. 3 without suction and 1 with. He claims the suction method had definately helped. And this makes a lot of common sense really because it pulls the scar away from reattaching again during the vital healing phase.

You can buy a micrdermabrasion for about 100 online. or go to lowes and buy a small tube and duct tape it to your vaccuum cleaner and stick TP in the nozzle for reduced suction.

#3 Sam

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:08 PM

Thanks 10years,i will ask him.

#4 mr. matt

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:09 PM


As anyone tried this method themself on acne scars,if so,which is the best suction divice and where did you buy it from and at what price?

http://www.owndoc.co...-acne-scars.pdf


Thanks I've looking for the full study article on this, not just the abstract.

FYI.....mr matt, aka "the man in the mirror" has had 4 subcisions done. 3 without suction and 1 with. He claims the suction method had definately helped. And this makes a lot of common sense really because it pulls the scar away from reattaching again during the vital healing phase.

You can buy a micrdermabrasion for about 100 online. or go to lowes and buy a small tube and duct tape it to your vaccuum cleaner and stick TP in the nozzle for reduced suction.


I would encourage anyone considering subcision to look at the subcision/suction study that is on the web. It's been two months since my fourth subcision procedure and three of the four deep scars treated on my left cheek are gone. The fourth appears to be filling in.

I wish I had known about this technique the first time that I had had the procedure done. I can't wait to go back to see my dermatologist so that he can see the results for himself.

Again, I just used a small Oreck hand-held vacuum sweeper and used my hand to reduce the amount of suction as it was too strong for my face. I did two to three passes a day for two weeks.

#5 Coppedsynergy999

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:25 AM



As anyone tried this method themself on acne scars,if so,which is the best suction divice and where did you buy it from and at what price?

http://www.owndoc.co...-acne-scars.pdf


Thanks I've looking for the full study article on this, not just the abstract.

FYI.....mr matt, aka "the man in the mirror" has had 4 subcisions done. 3 without suction and 1 with. He claims the suction method had definately helped. And this makes a lot of common sense really because it pulls the scar away from reattaching again during the vital healing phase.

You can buy a micrdermabrasion for about 100 online. or go to lowes and buy a small tube and duct tape it to your vaccuum cleaner and stick TP in the nozzle for reduced suction.


I would encourage anyone considering subcision to look at the subcision/suction study that is on the web. It's been two months since my fourth subcision procedure and three of the four deep scars treated on my left cheek are gone. The fourth appears to be filling in.

I wish I had known about this technique the first time that I had had the procedure done. I can't wait to go back to see my dermatologist so that he can see the results for himself.

Again, I just used a small Oreck hand-held vacuum sweeper and used my hand to reduce the amount of suction as it was too strong for my face. I did two to three passes a day for two weeks.

By passes do you mean you placed the vacuum on your scars three times at one sitting per day. Or do you mean you placed the vaccuum on your scars three different times during the day while suctioning for a few passes.

#6 mr. matt

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 07:45 AM

I placed the vacuum sweeper nozzle on both my left and right cheeks and suctioned them both two to three times a day for two weeks.

I noticed that my skin was still somewhat 'fragile' on day two and I had some bleeding due to the power of the suction. I believe that this was a 'window of opportunity' since the tethered bands had not begun to reconnect.

As far as I can tell, the scar tissue has not reconnected to the epidermis. Three of the four scars on my left cheek are no longer visible which has made me incredibly happy - they were on or near my left cheek bone and under the region below my left eye - I could see them in the mirror and they bothered me everytime I looked in the mirror.

Suctioning your face with a vacuum sweeper seems like such an unorthodox and non 'scientific' approach but it yielded great results for me. The nice thing about this is that you can do it at home and not have to pay a medical professional big bucks to do it for you let alone fork out a bunch of cash.

My recovery with this fourth subcision procedure was the longest one to date - I had bruising and two raised areas (subcutaneous nodules) for a little over a month. I wonder if the delay in recovery was due to the addition of suctioning my face - drawing more blood to the area, trauma from the suctioning, etc.

The net gain, however, was a terrific result. I'm sure that my dermatologist will be pleasantly surprised when he sees me again.

#7 cat1234

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 12:41 PM

Hi Matt,

I just got subcision done 5 days ago on a surgical scar and I'm already seeing the scar coming back as the swelling is gone down. I realize a surgical scar is different than an acne scar but my dermaotlogist told me that subcision can help greatly with the scar. I'm getting married in 6 months and am concerned about the depression or indentation on my face as it is very noticeable.

 

I'm scheduled to get a subcision in another 4 weeks and wanted to try the suction method for it. I'm still very unclear as what to use for it and how it will work. You had stated you used a Oreck hand-held vacuum sweeper. Is this a regular vacumn cleaner? If so how do you perform the suction method? Do you just put it on your scar? I purchased a suction device from owndoc.com. Do you think this might be suffice? I'm also possibly thinking if this doesn't work I might even travel to see your doctor as he seems really good. I live in San Francisco.

Thanks



#8 trendycat

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 10:17 PM

I placed the vacuum sweeper nozzle on both my left and right cheeks and suctioned them both two to three times a day for two weeks.

I noticed that my skin was still somewhat 'fragile' on day two and I had some bleeding due to the power of the suction. I believe that this was a 'window of opportunity' since the tethered bands had not begun to reconnect.

As far as I can tell, the scar tissue has not reconnected to the epidermis. Three of the four scars on my left cheek are no longer visible which has made me incredibly happy - they were on or near my left cheek bone and under the region below my left eye - I could see them in the mirror and they bothered me everytime I looked in the mirror.

Suctioning your face with a vacuum sweeper seems like such an unorthodox and non 'scientific' approach but it yielded great results for me. The nice thing about this is that you can do it at home and not have to pay a medical professional big bucks to do it for you let alone fork out a bunch of cash.

My recovery with this fourth subcision procedure was the longest one to date - I had bruising and two raised areas (subcutaneous nodules) for a little over a month. I wonder if the delay in recovery was due to the addition of suctioning my face - drawing more blood to the area, trauma from the suctioning, etc.

The net gain, however, was a terrific result. I'm sure that my dermatologist will be pleasantly surprised when he sees me again.

 

for how long at each time in each place, and how slowly/fast and at what power, also what type of nozzle did you use?



#9 mr. matt

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:02 PM

I passed the nozzle several times over my face and I didn't do it very quickly.  I wanted to ensure that any dangling fibrous threads had absolutely

NO chance of reattaching themselves.  If I remember correctly, I did it twice a day and used the nozzle that was attached to the vacuum sweeper.

 

I couldn't have asked for better results.

 

Matt



#10 munsoned

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:51 PM

As anyone tried this method themself on acne scars,if so,which is the best suction divice and where did you buy it from and at what price?

http://www.owndoc.co...-acne-scars.pdf

 

owndoc sells suctions specifically for this..They also have numerous logs on there by members using this method you can read up on. That site is a wealth of information for anybody doing self/at home treatments like rolling, needling ect..



#11 tricia

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:40 PM

I thought I would jump in and say I did buy the owndoc. suction pump awhile back, probably a few months at most, and it has broke already.  It is a really cheap device and just me pumping it like  I'm supposed to completely popped the spring out and I had to trash it.  I never used the attachments it came with as it lessened the suction and I wanted just the size of the circle on the end of the device itself to raise up my pock marks. I did this after needling and did it pretty aggressively at times.

 

I don't think it yielded much result.  It always looks good from swelling at first, but that goes back down.  I can't tell that the little plumping that stays after a needling session is any better with the suction.

 

I can see how after a subcision and causing a hematoma, that would cause more scar tissue perhaps in the middle of the scar where there was an indent, making the whole thing fill in better.  This is the same theory with silicone and TCA cross, it builds more scar tissue but in the places you want it.  I know the subcision cuts under the scar to help raise it, but still it has to fill in with something, and when your skin is programmed in that area to create scar tissue, it fills in with more scar tissue.  Any time you do severe damage to the underlying layers of skin like these methods or lasers, I think it can build up the scar, but there are risks in doing all these methods.


Edited by tricia, 11 March 2013 - 09:43 PM.


#12 panos

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:29 AM

I thought I would jump in and say I did buy the owndoc. suction pump awhile back, probably a few months at most, and it has broke already.  It is a really cheap device and just me pumping it like  I'm supposed to completely popped the spring out and I had to trash it.  I never used the attachments it came with as it lessened the suction and I wanted just the size of the circle on the end of the device itself to raise up my pock marks. I did this after needling and did it pretty aggressively at times.

 

I don't think it yielded much result.  It always looks good from swelling at first, but that goes back down.  I can't tell that the little plumping that stays after a needling session is any better with the suction.

 

I can see how after a subcision and causing a hematoma, that would cause more scar tissue perhaps in the middle of the scar where there was an indent, making the whole thing fill in better.  This is the same theory with silicone and TCA cross, it builds more scar tissue but in the places you want it.  I know the subcision cuts under the scar to help raise it, but still it has to fill in with something, and when your skin is programmed in that area to create scar tissue, it fills in with more scar tissue.  Any time you do severe damage to the underlying layers of skin like these methods or lasers, I think it can build up the scar, but there are risks in doing all these methods.

 

Well the problem with this site is that they cant even copy and mimick a  legit study.

 

The study says: Subcision and suction

 

It doesnt say : Needling and suction..

 

Also they came up with ideas like suctioning one day after needling cause you are causing less trauma with needling than with subcision

where you are supposed to do the suction 3 days after...

 

Thats total bullshit.I suggest Sara Vaughter to stop inventing her own ideas from legit studies.

 

If she believes that suction after needling works then she should make her own medical study .

 

The study is about Subcision and Suction.

 

Aggresive needling will cause damage in the long term.

 

Dermarolling is great for resurfacing.But not for scars.



#13 polecat

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:12 AM

I purchased the owndoc suction pump as well and felt it did not have any power-I thought it was broken.  The company were wonderful in sending me TWO replacement pumps free of charge but they too, were weak.

 

I have this set that I purchased from ebay and I love it:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item5d3bb02816

 

It is VERY strong!  The skin pulls into the cup and the seal is strong.  I love it.

 

I truly believe in the adage of if you don't have something nice to say then don't say anything.....

but since we are all here to share information, I wanted to agree with tricia above and let you know my experience.


Edited by polecat, 12 March 2013 - 10:14 AM.


#14 munsoned

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:01 PM

I thought I would jump in and say I did buy the owndoc. suction pump awhile back, probably a few months at most, and it has broke already.  It is a really cheap device and just me pumping it like  I'm supposed to completely popped the spring out and I had to trash it.  I never used the attachments it came with as it lessened the suction and I wanted just the size of the circle on the end of the device itself to raise up my pock marks. I did this after needling and did it pretty aggressively at times.

 

I don't think it yielded much result.  It always looks good from swelling at first, but that goes back down.  I can't tell that the little plumping that stays after a needling session is any better with the suction.

 

I can see how after a subcision and causing a hematoma, that would cause more scar tissue perhaps in the middle of the scar where there was an indent, making the whole thing fill in better.  This is the same theory with silicone and TCA cross, it builds more scar tissue but in the places you want it.  I know the subcision cuts under the scar to help raise it, but still it has to fill in with something, and when your skin is programmed in that area to create scar tissue, it fills in with more scar tissue.  Any time you do severe damage to the underlying layers of skin like these methods or lasers, I think it can build up the scar, but there are risks in doing all these methods.

 

Well the problem with this site is that they cant even copy and mimick a  legit study.

 

The study says: Subcision and suction

 

It doesnt say : Needling and suction..

 

Also they came up with ideas like suctioning one day after needling cause you are causing less trauma with needling than with subcision

where you are supposed to do the suction 3 days after...

 

Thats total bullshit.I suggest Sara Vaughter to stop inventing her own ideas from legit studies.

 

If she believes that suction after needling works then she should make her own medical study .

 

The study is about Subcision and Suction.

 

Aggresive needling will cause damage in the long term.

 

Dermarolling is great for resurfacing.But not for scars.

 

I have used a needle to perform an almost subcision like treatment on my own scars. Rather than simply doing individual penetrations in and around the scar in large volumes I worked under the scar and focused on breaking the scar free. This was not the same as needling. I have never purchased a single thing from owndoc..I have learned from articles over there ect but that is it..I think what Sara is doing is using her brain. It is extremely difficult to improve scars. Our options are limited. You need to think outside the box and while I feel at office treatments are a piece of the puzzle in many cases, educating ourselves and trying to find helpful at home solutions is another. And I think that is what this method is. An attempt to help those who are trying to help themselves. I am not huge fan of rolling as a stand alone for certain types of scars. I think its just one tool you need to have in your tool box. If you combine rolling with other treatments, good pre and after treatment care ect..you can make progress. I am living proof of that. 



#15 panos

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:25 PM

Is it extremely difficult to treat scars?

 


Successful human scar regeneration by topical iodine: a case report: an interim (3.5 year) summary.

Derry DM.
Source

dderry@shaw.ca

Abstract

Control of regeneration and wound healing are scientific and clinical objectives. In 1997, topical Lugol's iodine solution applied daily for 3 days to a 50 year old facial scar lead to hyperemic scar tissue. As a working hypothesis, the author proposed topical iodine could initiate, control and complete human scar regeneration. In 2005, after collecting three more surgical scars, topical iodine applications began. Within 3 days all four scars started regenerating. Stopping topical iodine halted the process. Within a week an appropriate adult scar formed. Digital cameras recorded events. Regeneration is complex and slow. Its appearance depends on whether scar is covered with plastic or open. Iodine's chemical properties are discussed along with their reaction with epithelial cells. As there are no visible signs detectable changes from oral iodine on regeneration, details of iodine staining are more thoroughly described. Not all, but most important results are presented. Topical iodine induces hair growth in and around scars. Hair is regeneration's workhorse, moving purposefully in all directions under arrector pili muscle power delivering regenate material accurately to scar tissues and coordinating centers. In addition, hair repeatedly self amputates possibly strengthening regenerating tissues. Two types of regenate material show under plastic wrap: white and globular. The white regenate appears and behaves somewhat like snow, but can be yellow, green or brown depending iodine content. The globular form of regenate material maybe derived from white regenate material with hair's help. Globular regenate material is larger, nondescript, variable in size and color (depends on iodine content) and seemed usually associated with hair. There are two centrally placed coordinating centers 5 mm apart on major scars. Wrist centers have a palpable, but not visible ridge, between them whereas abdominal centers do not. Wrist centers lasted through all regeneration of the wrist scar, whereas abdominal centers were only present for about 18 months before falling off. This paper summarizes and adds to previous preliminary reports. The 50 year old scar regenerated completely 2 years ago. Small experiments on regeneration are possible because it is a slow process and more importantly can be stopped and started at will. These results support the proposed hypothesis topical iodine initiates, controls, and completes human scar regeneration.



#16 LoveGreenSmoothies

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:17 AM

^^sounds good but acne scars are different than surgical scars. Surgical scars are easier to deal with usually.

Also iodine can mess with the thyroid.

Maybe worth a try on acne scars though.

#17 panos

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:08 AM

^^ how surgical scars are easier to treat,while the incision had gone deep down to the muscle?

 

Suction definetely works due to the cause more internal hematoma( i dont understand the concept of those saying that the scar will attach again

to the fibrous bands)

 

Same thing with lugols iodine,after staining several days people say that they begin to see a sheet like layer in the skin

which indicates that further and more internal regeneration is taken place.

 

I am definitely sure that there is a common reason why these things absolutely work...

Too bad most of derms never cared about these instead they are telling you  '' scars will never go away''

and they give you a bullshit prediction of % in improvement..

 

Its obvious: we want more internal regeneration of deeper skin layers...

Its hypothesized that lugols iidone causes apoptosis of the epithilium cells so fast

that deep layers begin to regenerate immediatley.


Edited by panos, 13 March 2013 - 03:13 AM.