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D H T The Sole Creator Of Acne


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#21 dreamingofclearskin2011

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:48 AM

well im not sure what all the fus is about but i know bobbi knows his stuff when it comes to this gerenal knowledge, hes a pretty intelligent dude and does a great amount of research on something before he just starts opening his mouth. i listened to his theories and masturbation and ive been 95% clear of acne for over a month now. just saying you guys shouldnt argue with him and say hes wrong or has bad research hes trying his hardest to bring information to lost souls who dont like to spend the time theirsevles to fix their issue with acne. hes been a great help and motivaton for me to clear my acne! so good luck to anyone out there who does not believe DHT is a major factor in acne because i believe 100% that it is.

So exercising is actually a bad thing for acne? Because that raises testosteron level and thus leading to acne...


no i dot think working out raises DHT it does raise testosterone though you are right. but it does not mess with DHT not as far as i know of..

#22 AndersCh1m

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:01 PM

well im not sure what all the fus is about but i know bobbi knows his stuff when it comes to this gerenal knowledge, hes a pretty intelligent dude and does a great amount of research on something before he just starts opening his mouth. i listened to his theories and masturbation and ive been 95% clear of acne for over a month now. just saying you guys shouldnt argue with him and say hes wrong or has bad research hes trying his hardest to bring information to lost souls who dont like to spend the time theirsevles to fix their issue with acne. hes been a great help and motivaton for me to clear my acne! so good luck to anyone out there who does not believe DHT is a major factor in acne because i believe 100% that it is.

I'm not saying he isn't trying to help, but a lot of his statements are contradicting. Such as hating on the FDA and big pharma for trying to shut down a cancer clinic, that may or may not be effective for different types of cancer. Then talking about if the FDA approves something, it is definitely safe for use. They approved Accutane, but the list of side effects for that one are quite extensive. A large majority of prescription drugs are quite harmful, despite being approved for use by the FDA.

It is known that DHT is A cause of acne, but not the SOLE creator of acne. Not saying he's wrong there, but messing with hormones is quite dangerous. There's a reason steroids are now completely illegal outside of prescription and semi-legal prohormones. Teens and young adults took them consistently, even following proper protocols. These caused severe developmental issues and permanent alterations to brain chemistry as well as terminal illness. Hormones are not the enemy, but finding a balance in them is a good goal. Men need androgens in order to function properly, women not as much, but still necessary. Men also need some estrogen in order to develop properly, there's a reason hormones peak in puberty, and slowly decline after about 25 years of age.

It is also well known that the typical westerner has no idea about what a proper diet is. Even the food pyramid, although a decent starting point, does not provide the right nutritional information most people need. Schools don't teach the benefits of a higher protein diet, instead they say that high protein diets kill kidneys. They used to teach that trans fats were great, but even then it was known that they lead to disease and were completely counter productive to health.

He's helped some I'm sure, but not everyone can completely comprehend the data that is out there. That's one of the great things about message boards, places to have arguments and discussions to get the facts straight. That loses it's use, however, when people ignore common sense, can't comprehend data properly, or flat out take everything as insult and start a pissing match.

#23 FSAS

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:05 PM

so inhibting dht creates higher estrogen.. as a female im not sure i want that. i started taking saw palmetto a few days ago myself. i suppose you cant win either way. i understand its dangerous to mess with hormones but when acne is so hormonal related (im basically clear around my period and break out bad 2 weeks or so before)..clearly my hormones are doing strange things so would i not have the choice but to try alter them? spiro worked well for me as an antiandrogen, cleared me up 100% would that even mean about my acne if i've had my diet change for over 6-7 months now (The typical all veggie/fruit no wheat/gluten no sugar lots of hormone animal meats) and that didnt affect my acne at all. i sleep well too and exercise , drink a ton of water and supplement with cod liver and take a few herbs, probiotics and kefir, stress relief, wash my face with cold water and honey. my acne still wont budge. i dont understand that when only a small 25mg of spiro made all the difference. someone told me saw palmetto doesnt actually alter hormones but except blocks androgens (throws them around elsewhere inthe body or something). ? I dunno im lost here. seems like my hormones are clearly causing acne due to the pattern in it and where its situation but nothing natural is helping it lessen even the slightest over nearly 7 months now consistant use. hence wanting to try saw palmetto. definitely dont have hope for that though asno vitamins etc ever made a difference. it really botheres me that spiro worked so well but nothing else even similar is helping :/ doesnt make sense. i dont even understand why my skin turned so acne prone and so sentive to dht/androgens. nearly 20, talk about out of the blue :/

#24 bobbi364

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:22 PM

Let us back track.  Andres, did you not see the link I posted from google scholar on the side effects of andro? Over 17k articles/journals, not just FDA.  I would also appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth.  "Since you believe the FDA has the best interests of the people, look up some of the BS they've done in the past years." Pointing out a contradiction from my stance on the FDA should reveal to you that I do not believe everything they say.

Inhibiting DHT does not always lead to the pathway of estrogen production, however if one experiences higher levels of estrogen you can take aromatase inhibitors, such as: chrysin, genistein, and quercetin.  Coupling saw palmetto with anti-aromatase tabs will keep a level balance if one experiences higher estrogen production, which isn't always the case.

I do my research, do not start "pissing matches", however, if that is the way you see things that is fine. "He's helped some I'm sure, but not everyone can completely comprehend the data that is out there. That's one of the great things about message boards, places to have arguments and discussions to get the facts straight. That loses it's use, however, when people ignore common sense, can't comprehend data properly, or flat out take everything as insult and start a pissing match."  I sense anger in this comment, be mad if you would like.  Comprehension of data?  What is there that I do not comprehend?  Please tell us all.  As for your levels of DHT/estrogen, like I said before there is no base level, so saying you have higher levels then you ever had just means you are peaking production, like stated before it is like a sinusoidal wave form, do you understand what that is?

I like these conversations as well, this is why the board is here. HOWEVER, please start posting links to some contradiction articles, because at the moment I am debating no data, something I would like to do and found a lack on your end of the matter.

So exercising is actually a bad thing for acne? Because that raises testosteron level and thus leading to acne...


No, there is no evidence that exercise increasaes DHT production. It does in fact produce testosterone, however other pathways are taken other than DHT production.

Here is a good article taking into account T production:

http://www.steroid.com/steroids_side_effects.php

5. Acne and Anabolic Steroids

Anabolic steroids can cause the development of acne. However, the extent to which it is experienced can be due to a number of varying factors, with the particular steroids and exact dosages used being primary. The skin´s sebaceous glands have a particularly high affinity to Dihydrotestosterone, which is an androgen the body naturally produces from testosterone via the enzyme 5-alpha Reductase. Increased sebaceous gland activity promotes oily skin which can combine with bacteria and dead skin (normal wear and tear) eventually causing pores to become clogged more quickly than the body can cleanse them. This of course, is preventable by using only particular steroids, cleansing the skin regularly, and perhaps using a topical anti-androgen.


SOURCES:
(1. Am J Clin Dermatol. 2002;3(8):571-8. 2. Clin Dermatol. 2004 Sep-Oct;22(5):419-28. 3. Pol Merkuriusz Lek. 2004 May;16(95):490-2.)

Edited by bobbi364, 29 January 2012 - 08:06 PM.


#25 dreamingofclearskin2011

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:04 AM

so inhibting dht creates higher estrogen.. as a female im not sure i want that. i started taking saw palmetto a few days ago myself. i suppose you cant win either way. i understand its dangerous to mess with hormones but when acne is so hormonal related (im basically clear around my period and break out bad 2 weeks or so before)..clearly my hormones are doing strange things so would i not have the choice but to try alter them? spiro worked well for me as an antiandrogen, cleared me up 100% would that even mean about my acne if i've had my diet change for over 6-7 months now (The typical all veggie/fruit no wheat/gluten no sugar lots of hormone animal meats) and that didnt affect my acne at all. i sleep well too and exercise , drink a ton of water and supplement with cod liver and take a few herbs, probiotics and kefir, stress relief, wash my face with cold water and honey. my acne still wont budge. i dont understand that when only a small 25mg of spiro made all the difference. someone told me saw palmetto doesnt actually alter hormones but except blocks androgens (throws them around elsewhere inthe body or something). ? I dunno im lost here. seems like my hormones are clearly causing acne due to the pattern in it and where its situation but nothing natural is helping it lessen even the slightest over nearly 7 months now consistant use. hence wanting to try saw palmetto. definitely dont have hope for that though asno vitamins etc ever made a difference. it really botheres me that spiro worked so well but nothing else even similar is helping :/ doesnt make sense. i dont even understand why my skin turned so acne prone and so sentive to dht/androgens. nearly 20, talk about out of the blue :/


well your acne is obviously caused my hormones alone seems how youve already experiemented and found out dieting and anything else doesnt work. id say that saw palmetto should help alot with you in your situation and if not id search the org for the ladies that found the best birthday control pill to help acne i think yasmin had raves going on about it. also i read some info a long time ago about 'broccoli pills and DIM supplement pills' that works for females and estrogen levels completely eliminating acne and also good luck with your journy! at least you know that you can eat whatever you want and be happy :) everyone on the diet hollistic forums have no fun with chocolate and cookies Posted Image

#26 bobbi364

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 02:38 PM

Hey, I love chocolate and cookies.

#27 FSAS

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 07:35 PM


so inhibting dht creates higher estrogen.. as a female im not sure i want that. i started taking saw palmetto a few days ago myself. i suppose you cant win either way. i understand its dangerous to mess with hormones but when acne is so hormonal related (im basically clear around my period and break out bad 2 weeks or so before)..clearly my hormones are doing strange things so would i not have the choice but to try alter them? spiro worked well for me as an antiandrogen, cleared me up 100% would that even mean about my acne if i've had my diet change for over 6-7 months now (The typical all veggie/fruit no wheat/gluten no sugar lots of hormone animal meats) and that didnt affect my acne at all. i sleep well too and exercise , drink a ton of water and supplement with cod liver and take a few herbs, probiotics and kefir, stress relief, wash my face with cold water and honey. my acne still wont budge. i dont understand that when only a small 25mg of spiro made all the difference. someone told me saw palmetto doesnt actually alter hormones but except blocks androgens (throws them around elsewhere inthe body or something). ? I dunno im lost here. seems like my hormones are clearly causing acne due to the pattern in it and where its situation but nothing natural is helping it lessen even the slightest over nearly 7 months now consistant use. hence wanting to try saw palmetto. definitely dont have hope for that though asno vitamins etc ever made a difference. it really botheres me that spiro worked so well but nothing else even similar is helping :/ doesnt make sense. i dont even understand why my skin turned so acne prone and so sentive to dht/androgens. nearly 20, talk about out of the blue :/


well your acne is obviously caused my hormones alone seems how youve already experiemented and found out dieting and anything else doesnt work. id say that saw palmetto should help alot with you in your situation and if not id search the org for the ladies that found the best birthday control pill to help acne i think yasmin had raves going on about it. also i read some info a long time ago about 'broccoli pills and DIM supplement pills' that works for females and estrogen levels completely eliminating acne and also good luck with your journy! at least you know that you can eat whatever you want and be happy Posted Image everyone on the diet hollistic forums have no fun with chocolate and cookies Posted Image


thanks for your reply :)
I've been on birth control for a few years now but never had a problem with acne even when switching. I was at one point on one that is far for recognised to help acne. i've been on diane35 for a year now and its not keeping me clear at all (or it might be..i might be 200% worse with out it :/) either way im really annoyed because im not sure how my hormones got like this why it just wont budge. even things like zinc didnt help or spearmint tea.
saw palmetto has done anything yet and its been a week, i know of people who have seen results in a few days and others a month or so but either way im not too hopeful :S I'd so so so rather diet be my cause, least i'd be able to control it :( considering diane is just about the num 1 for clearing people (Cleared my twin) im really lost as to what my hormonal imbalance might be. I'm 99% clear right now which is my first day of my period. it seems like my face is clearest always this day and maybe 90% the rest of the week. after my period boom face explodes at its peak about the 2nd week after my period...the cycle just continues. not sure which hormones out of whack but usually that means all are and the worst part is i dont understand why im so sensitive to seems like it went out of balance so fast and so easy for no apparent reason and now a year has gone past and 7 months of complete change and no difference in the slightest. sometimes makes me question the natural approach, my body just doesnt seem to respond to anything :/

#28 Luisa

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:39 AM

so inhibting dht creates higher estrogen.. as a female im not sure i want that. i started taking saw palmetto a few days ago myself. i suppose you cant win either way. i understand its dangerous to mess with hormones but when acne is so hormonal related (im basically clear around my period and break out bad 2 weeks or so before)..clearly my hormones are doing strange things so would i not have the choice but to try alter them? spiro worked well for me as an antiandrogen, cleared me up 100% would that even mean about my acne if i've had my diet change for over 6-7 months now (The typical all veggie/fruit no wheat/gluten no sugar lots of hormone animal meats) and that didnt affect my acne at all. i sleep well too and exercise , drink a ton of water and supplement with cod liver and take a few herbs, probiotics and kefir, stress relief, wash my face with cold water and honey. my acne still wont budge. i dont understand that when only a small 25mg of spiro made all the difference. someone told me saw palmetto doesnt actually alter hormones but except blocks androgens (throws them around elsewhere inthe body or something). ? I dunno im lost here. seems like my hormones are clearly causing acne due to the pattern in it and where its situation but nothing natural is helping it lessen even the slightest over nearly 7 months now consistant use. hence wanting to try saw palmetto. definitely dont have hope for that though asno vitamins etc ever made a difference. it really botheres me that spiro worked so well but nothing else even similar is helping :/ doesnt make sense. i dont even understand why my skin turned so acne prone and so sentive to dht/androgens. nearly 20, talk about out of the blue :/

well your acne is obviously caused my hormones alone seems how youve already experiemented and found out dieting and anything else doesnt work. id say that saw palmetto should help alot with you in your situation and if not id search the org for the ladies that found the best birthday control pill to help acne i think yasmin had raves going on about it. also i read some info a long time ago about 'broccoli pills and DIM supplement pills' that works for females and estrogen levels completely eliminating acne and also good luck with your journy! at least you know that you can eat whatever you want and be happy Posted Image everyone on the diet hollistic forums have no fun with chocolate and cookies Posted Image

thanks for your reply :) I've been on birth control for a few years now but never had a problem with acne even when switching. I was at one point on one that is far for recognised to help acne. i've been on diane35 for a year now and its not keeping me clear at all (or it might be..i might be 200% worse with out it :/) either way im really annoyed because im not sure how my hormones got like this why it just wont budge. even things like zinc didnt help or spearmint tea. saw palmetto has done anything yet and its been a week, i know of people who have seen results in a few days and others a month or so but either way im not too hopeful :S I'd so so so rather diet be my cause, least i'd be able to control it :( considering diane is just about the num 1 for clearing people (Cleared my twin) im really lost as to what my hormonal imbalance might be. I'm 99% clear right now which is my first day of my period. it seems like my face is clearest always this day and maybe 90% the rest of the week. after my period boom face explodes at its peak about the 2nd week after my period...the cycle just continues. not sure which hormones out of whack but usually that means all are and the worst part is i dont understand why im so sensitive to seems like it went out of balance so fast and so easy for no apparent reason and now a year has gone past and 7 months of complete change and no difference in the slightest. sometimes makes me question the natural approach, my body just doesnt seem to respond to anything :/


Your acne seems to be up and down with your cycle like mine. I'm taking a supplement called p-5-p which is vitamin b6 but in its active form. I'm not 100% sure but I really think this supplement is helping and I have tried many in the past. Vitamin b6 has been documented to help premenstrual and mid cycle acne for women. Also people who are on the pill are supposed to have a greater need for this vitamin. In my case saw palmetto affected me but for the worse I got acne on my neck which I never had one month after taking it. At this time of the month day 20th of my cycle I'm supposed to have my worse break out and this didn't happen last month or this month.
My Regimen:

Diet:
Low fat, Moderate carbs, estrogenic boosting diet, green smoothies.

Supplements
P-5-P 50mg

Topical:
Morning:
Oatmeal-honey-vitaminb6 mask, rinse with water after 30 mins.
Night:
Very short wash with oatmeal soap at night. Topical vitamin C(homemade serum with war honey).
Spot treat with tea tree oil or zinc oxide ointment.

#29 FSAS

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:07 PM

thanks for your reply. i bought b6 a while ago but so so so many people reported breakouts from it i got really worried and upon searching on google b6 and b12 were the vitamins that most commonly broke people out so i steered clear from them. how does b6 relate to hormonal acne (the positives?) also im curious when you break out worse? right before your period and clear up on your period? I've only been taking saw palmetto for about a week.. im a little worried now I'll break out >.< im curious why people might break out on saw palmetto..does it directly affect your hormones? i thought it just helped block inhibit dht (a lot of people suggested it to me for that reason). thats a bit confusing how one would have negative affects from that..
i think im so lost right now. i wish i could have my period 24/7 just so i could have a clear face.
the extreme is literally so extreme. right now 80% of my face is so so soft and perfect and clear, better than all my friends skin..it legit looks airbrushed. but i know in about a weeks time i will have my 1000s of little bumps, big painful pimples and lots of bumps and rough skin. i honestly cant believe how quickly it comes and goes. makes me wonder why that raise in some hormones or drop in another can honestly be that affecting and why it actually is so much to produce this acne kinda like theres a fine line between perfect skin and not so perfect skin. i get no other hormonal issues, never emotional, never have pains or headache, moody etc but seems like my hormones change that much to cause the acne. just doesnt make any sense -_-

#30 mes6890

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:35 PM

For me, the worst acne of my life accompanied the beginning of hair loss, which I've now accepted because it's probably just the dictates of my genes. However, that these things happened simultaneously says to me: hormones. Acne has always been a problem, but that was when it all went downhill.

 

It's like all of a sudden, at 20.5 years old, something turned on in my body and told it to make more testosterone (though a hormone panel said my testosterone is normal), convert more testosterone, or be more sensitive to DHT! I'm coming up on a year since my hair and skin went so downhill, and while my hair looks okay, I've still got the red scars on my face and receding hairline to prove it...

I decided to try and inhibit DHT with 320mg of saw palmetto a day. My hair chilled out a little bit and I saw fast, dramatic improvement in my skin. (Also, my boobs increased a full cup size, which was a lot of fun I will say.) I was very happy, even though I was gaining some weight.

But about 3.5 weeks in, I was noticing that my mind felt really cloudy. It is hard to explain, but I totally understand what it means to have brain fog now. I have never felt so out of sorts. After 4 weeks, I went off the saw palmetto (and sadly, my boobs are back to normal).

It's been proposed by some that inhibiting 5-alpha reductase (type I or II or both, I'm not sure) may impair cognition. I sure can't explain specifics, but 5-AR and DHT do have a role in cognitive processing. So it appears that some people, what percent I sure can't say, may experience this god-awful brain fog from inhibiting 5-AR. Some men who've taken Propecia for male pattern baldness have complained of fogginess among other things.

Mine subsided once I stopped taking the saw palmetto, but I'm still not as sharp as I should be.

 

*I am editing this post here in almost August of 2013 to say that saw palmetto sides have persisted. Please get in touch with me if you have experienced negative side effects from saw palmetto. 


Edited by playsomebeat, 23 July 2013 - 03:47 PM.

Life with Accutane side effects: http://bloggingmybet....wordpress.com/


#31 Luisa

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:58 PM

thanks for your reply. i bought b6 a while ago but so so so many people reported breakouts from it i got really worried and upon searching on google b6 and b12 were the vitamins that most commonly broke people out so i steered clear from them. how does b6 relate to hormonal acne (the positives?) also im curious when you break out worse? right before your period and clear up on your period? I've only been taking saw palmetto for about a week.. im a little worried now I'll break out >.< im curious why people might break out on saw palmetto..does it directly affect your hormones? i thought it just helped block inhibit dht (a lot of people suggested it to me for that reason). thats a bit confusing how one would have negative affects from that..
i think im so lost right now. i wish i could have my period 24/7 just so i could have a clear face.
the extreme is literally so extreme. right now 80% of my face is so so soft and perfect and clear, better than all my friends skin..it legit looks airbrushed. but i know in about a weeks time i will have my 1000s of little bumps, big painful pimples and lots of bumps and rough skin. i honestly cant believe how quickly it comes and goes. makes me wonder why that raise in some hormones or drop in another can honestly be that affecting and why it actually is so much to produce this acne kinda like theres a fine line between perfect skin and not so perfect skin. i get no other hormonal issues, never emotional, never have pains or headache, moody etc but seems like my hormones change that much to cause the acne. just doesnt make any sense -_-


I have read a lot that vitamin b6 does break out some people, supposedly pyrodixine is the one associated to that but p5p which is the form I'm taking seems to be ok. B6 is supposed to lower prolactin levels which at the same time could lower 5-AR activity. I break out just after my mid cycle, although I can have very mild spots before. I'm super clear while on my period, my skin just glows at that time, also much less oily as well. Saw palmetto can lower estrogen levels so if you are low on that side then it could probably get you more break outs and it does lowers DHT because I was shedding a bit my hair before saw palmetto but after taking it very little shedding, but I got neck acne in exchange Posted Image. May be get some of these vitamin levels tested?. I can tell you for sure that vitamin b6 does not break me out for sure. I'm very certain is helping because I get some spots on my chest when I break out and now very mild ones, it takes time to work. Supposedly 3 months to see a difference from what I read but I can already notice a difference after 2 months.

Edited by Luisa, 01 February 2012 - 10:05 PM.

My Regimen:

Diet:
Low fat, Moderate carbs, estrogenic boosting diet, green smoothies.

Supplements
P-5-P 50mg

Topical:
Morning:
Oatmeal-honey-vitaminb6 mask, rinse with water after 30 mins.
Night:
Very short wash with oatmeal soap at night. Topical vitamin C(homemade serum with war honey).
Spot treat with tea tree oil or zinc oxide ointment.

#32 FSAS

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:19 PM


thanks for your reply. i bought b6 a while ago but so so so many people reported breakouts from it i got really worried and upon searching on google b6 and b12 were the vitamins that most commonly broke people out so i steered clear from them. how does b6 relate to hormonal acne (the positives?) also im curious when you break out worse? right before your period and clear up on your period? I've only been taking saw palmetto for about a week.. im a little worried now I'll break out >.< im curious why people might break out on saw palmetto..does it directly affect your hormones? i thought it just helped block inhibit dht (a lot of people suggested it to me for that reason). thats a bit confusing how one would have negative affects from that..
i think im so lost right now. i wish i could have my period 24/7 just so i could have a clear face.
the extreme is literally so extreme. right now 80% of my face is so so soft and perfect and clear, better than all my friends skin..it legit looks airbrushed. but i know in about a weeks time i will have my 1000s of little bumps, big painful pimples and lots of bumps and rough skin. i honestly cant believe how quickly it comes and goes. makes me wonder why that raise in some hormones or drop in another can honestly be that affecting and why it actually is so much to produce this acne kinda like theres a fine line between perfect skin and not so perfect skin. i get no other hormonal issues, never emotional, never have pains or headache, moody etc but seems like my hormones change that much to cause the acne. just doesnt make any sense -_-


I have read a lot that vitamin b6 does break out some people, supposedly pyrodixine is the one associated to that but p5p which is the form I'm taking seems to be ok. B6 is supposed to lower prolactin levels which at the same time could lower 5-AR activity. I break out just after my mid cycle, although I can have very mild spots before. I'm super clear while on my period, my skin just glows at that time, also much less oily as well. Saw palmetto can lower estrogen levels so if you are low on that side then it could probably get you more break outs and it does lowers DHT because I was shedding a bit my hair before saw palmetto but after taking it very little shedding, but I got neck acne in exchange Posted Image. May be get some of these vitamin levels tested?. I can tell you for sure that vitamin b6 does not break me out for sure. I'm very certain is helping because I get some spots on my chest when I break out and now very mild ones, it takes time to work. Supposedly 3 months to see a difference from what I read but I can already notice a difference after 2 months.


im a little worried to take saw palmetto now, im not sure if i should stop? its been about a week i think. my acne has pretty much remained its usual. im not sure what my hormone levels are as im on the pill and certainly not ready to get off diane until i can least get my face clear because facing the hell of getting off the pill :/ i suppose one might be able to work out my hormone levels by the behaviour of my acne? im fairly skinny though and dont get any other 'female' issues like cramps etc as mentioned. can saw palmetto really change your hormones that much? do you think maybe any breakouts for yourself might have been an IB? im so lost in this battle. not sure what to take. everything just seems dangerous. i might try b6 again after giving SP a go. i only take one sp pill a day but yeah havnt noticed any change better or for worse. knowing me and my luck i'll probably get worse.
what can one tell about hormonal levels if they're clear during their period week? like right now im on my 3-4th day but my periods are very short so even though i'll be on my sugar pills i wont actually get my period til about the 3rd day and only 3 day with an actual period. (does that say anything about my hormone levels do you think?) considering i dont get period side effects except for no acne (best days of my life .. how sad).
and my acne stays around all month but gets way worse about 2 or so weeks before my period. wish i knew what that meant and what i could do to work it out. considering my hormon levels went out of whack by themselves its so confusing as to what to do to get them back when i didnt even do anything to force them out of whack. if thats even what they are.
although nothing else could make me get acne relating around my period by hormones? food doesnt seem to affect me obviously. whether i ate chocolate or a carrot my acne stays the same (note- i only eat healthy food thats for sure though, but abot 8 months ago i tested if food did anything to me, spent a week eating crap food and nothing changed) kinda wish it did, would know i was doing something to help. im curious about B6. so which hormone is it actually affecting? im b12 deficiant (not sure how that happened considering what i eat) but yeah i was nervous because b12 and b6 were known to break people out.. thanks for your opinions by the way :)

I'll spare too much background and just say that I know DHT is most of my problem...terrible cystic acne and hair loss began at the same time and have persisted. It's like all of a sudden, at 20.5 years old, something turned on in my body and told it to make more testosterone (though a hormone panel said my testosterone is normal), convert more testosterone, or be more sensitive to DHT! I'm coming up on a year since my hair and skin went so downhill, and while my hair looks okay, I've still got the red scars on my face and receding hairline to prove it...

I decided to try and inhibit DHT with 320mg of saw palmetto a day. My hair chilled out a little bit and I saw fast, dramatic improvement in my skin. (Also, my boobs increased a full cup size, which was a lot of fun I will say.) I was very happy, even though I was gaining some weight.

But about 3.5 weeks in, I was noticing that my mind felt really cloudy. It is hard to explain, but I totally understand what it means to have brain fog now. I have never felt so out of sorts. After 4 weeks, I went off the saw palmetto (and sadly, my boobs are back to normal).

It's been proposed by some that inhibiting 5-alpha reductase (type I or II or both, I'm not sure) may impair cognition. I sure can't explain specifics, but 5-AR and DHT do have a role in cognitive processing. So it appears that some people, what percent I sure can't say, may experience this god-awful brain fog from inhibiting 5-AR. Some men who've taken Propecia for male pattern baldness have complained of fogginess.

Mine subsided once I stopped taking the saw palmetto, but sometimes I feel like I'm still not as sharp as I should be.

Just wanted to share my experience. I'm looking deeper into the connection between diet and acne now (reading The Clear Skin Diet), and hopefully through eating and eliminating the right things and supplementation I can improve my situation.


have you tried diet before?
I'm definitely not sure what to do about saw palmetto. might give it more time but i like my brain >.<
this is such a lose lose battle. never a win win :/
how is your acne? is it better with your period ? are you on bc?
:)

#33 Robert_NL

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:44 AM

What is the opinion on pumpkin seed for decreasing the DHT levels? I read that pumpkin seed reduces the DHT production.

#34 AndersCh1m

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:57 PM

Let us back track. Andres, did you not see the link I posted from google scholar on the side effects of andro? Over 17k articles/journals, not just FDA. I would also appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth. "Since you believe the FDA has the best interests of the people, look up some of the BS they've done in the past years." Pointing out a contradiction from my stance on the FDA should reveal to you that I do not believe everything they say.
(Anders)I was simply stating that you defended an FDA approved product, inferring that they wouldn't release a product that has severe and harmful side effects. Then later pointed to a cancer clinic that was being attacked by Big Pharma, when the FDA is Big Pharma. Not saying you believe everything they say, or putting words of any kind in your mouth. The side effects of Andro are very well known. The side effects, however, are associated with exogenous hormones, not with those regularly produced by a healthy body. In fact, it appears most of those articles study the use of exogenous hormones, so it's kind of hard to accurately apply that to the regular hormones produced within the body.

I do my research, do not start "pissing matches".

I was referring to the argument between you and another member in the thread, just seemed overly defensive when it seemed they were trying to just add more information.
Here is a good article taking into account T production:

http://www.steroid.c...ide_effects.php

5. Acne and Anabolic Steroids

Anabolic steroids can cause the development of acne. However, the extent to which it is experienced can be due to a number of varying factors, with the particular steroids and exact dosages used being primary. The skin´s sebaceous glands have a particularly high affinity to Dihydrotestosterone, which is an androgen the body naturally produces from testosterone via the enzyme 5-alpha Reductase. Increased sebaceous gland activity promotes oily skin which can combine with bacteria and dead skin (normal wear and tear) eventually causing pores to become clogged more quickly than the body can cleanse them. This of course, is preventable by using only particular steroids, cleansing the skin regularly, and perhaps using a topical anti-androgen.
As stated in the article, it can be due to a number of varying factors. DHT is not the only androgen to cause oily skin, nor does oily skin mean acne or non oily skin mean lack of acne. There are many people with very oily skin and little or no acne, and those with non oily skin and lots of acne. It just seems to me that you set out your research on the hormone to prove a point, instead of investigate objectively.


The information you've provided can help those with acne caused by hormonal issues, but it is well known that hormones are not the only cause. The typical westerner knows very little about good nutrition. They use information provided by the FDA (Many don't even go that far), when the RDA alone is made for a 150 lb male with about 12% body fat. Added to the fact that the FDA approves tactics such as treating beef and poultry with ammonia, and the use of trans fats and other harmful synthetic chemicals, that should be a very big sign that they know nothing of good nutritional needs. This is by no way related to your stance with the FDA, this is simply saying that dietary issues still remain a very big culprit for those with acne.

Earlier when I stated messing with hormones is dangerous, I was more referring to hormonal products, not natural products such as Saw Palmetto. For women, if using birth control products works for controlling your acne, by all means use it. I am unsure of the side effects using birth control can have, but I'm sure you're well informed on it if you decide to put it in your bodies.

But about 3.5 weeks in, I was noticing that my mind felt really cloudy. It is hard to explain, but I totally understand what it means to have brain fog now. I have never felt so out of sorts. After 4 weeks, I went off the saw palmetto (and sadly, my boobs are back to normal).

It's been proposed by some that inhibiting 5-alpha reductase (type I or II or both, I'm not sure) may impair cognition. I sure can't explain specifics, but 5-AR and DHT do have a role in cognitive processing. So it appears that some people, what percent I sure can't say, may experience this god-awful brain fog from inhibiting 5-AR. Some men who've taken Propecia for male pattern baldness have complained of fogginess.

Mine subsided once I stopped taking the saw palmetto, but sometimes I feel like I'm still not as sharp as I should be.

I'm unsure of the effects 5-AD inhibition may have on the brain, but there are some things you can try to help there. Acetyl-l-carnitine has good neuro protective benefits, antioxidant properties, and improves acetylcholine production. That may be worth looking into, as well as other nootropic compounds to counter the effects inhibition may have, that is if you are ok with testing those routes.

#35 Bearishly

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:13 PM

I'm unsure of the effects 5-AD inhibition may have on the brain, but there are some things you can try to help there. Acetyl-l-carnitine has good neuro protective benefits, antioxidant properties, and improves acetylcholine production. That may be worth looking into, as well as other nootropic compounds to counter the effects inhibition may have, that is if you are ok with testing those routes.


Just did some digging on Acetyl-l-carnitine, and it looks like it has been shown to improve insulin response. That itself would be good for acne.

#36 AndersCh1m

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:41 PM


I'm unsure of the effects 5-AD inhibition may have on the brain, but there are some things you can try to help there. Acetyl-l-carnitine has good neuro protective benefits, antioxidant properties, and improves acetylcholine production. That may be worth looking into, as well as other nootropic compounds to counter the effects inhibition may have, that is if you are ok with testing those routes.


Just did some digging on Acetyl-l-carnitine, and it looks like it has been shown to improve insulin response. That itself would be good for acne.


There are several better things for insulin response, I'm not sure Alcar makes a big difference insulin wise though. There are other forms of Carnitine that may have more benefit, such as GPLC or LCLT. All of them are available for cheap in bulk, and easy to cap into appropriate doses. Other insulin improving products I've used and can vouch for are Slin-Sane, Agmatine, citrulline malate, R-ALA or Na-R-ALA. Those have more of a bodybuilding benefit IMO, I don't notice a difference acne wise on or off them, but it may not be a factor for me. You may see some good improvement from a combination of those, I'd recommend Na-R-ALA, it's not super cheap, but a great glucose disposal agent. I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for insulin wise, but it might be a good place to start.

#37 bobbi364

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:00 PM

What is the opinion on pumpkin seed for decreasing the DHT levels? I read that pumpkin seed reduces the DHT production.


http://www.livestrong.com/article/176550-herbs-that-block-dht/

Andres, I see where you are coming from. I did state there are other things that will cause acne. As an androgen, DHT is heavily linked, more so than any other androgen, to the sebum gland. I also state that there are natural herbs and things that can prohibit DHT, but I personally believe that isn't good enough. For example, people (like me) who suffer from hormonal acne (well I did at one point in time, not anymore!) from masturbation should not go buying saw palmetto with the thought that if they take saw palmetto it will block DHT and thus block acne allowing them to masturbate (or have sex) all day long. There are other symptoms, it will never just be acne, that are formed as well.

I get other symptom from ejaculation and high DHT levels, those include: sinuses, bone/joint fatigue, acne, general mental fatigue.

#38 AndersCh1m

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:25 PM


What is the opinion on pumpkin seed for decreasing the DHT levels? I read that pumpkin seed reduces the DHT production.


http://www.livestron...that-block-dht/

Andres, I see where you are coming from. I did state there are other things that will cause acne. As an androgen, DHT is heavily linked, more so than any other androgen, to the sebum gland. I also state that there are natural herbs and things that can prohibit DHT, but I personally believe that isn't good enough. For example, people (like me) who suffer from hormonal acne (well I did at one point in time, not anymore!) from masturbation should not go buying saw palmetto with the thought that if they take saw palmetto it will block DHT and thus block acne allowing them to masturbate (or have sex) all day long. There are other symptoms, it will never just be acne, that are formed as well.

I get other symptom from ejaculation and high DHT levels, those include: sinuses, bone/joint fatigue, acne, general mental fatigue.

(Last name is Anders lol) I'm glad we can see more eye to eye here.

As for the part you mentioned on topical anti androgens, are they selective DHT blockers? Or general anti androgens (that do more outside block androgens from affecting the skin) like most products, that is the part I would have a problem messing with. Selective androgen receptor modulators are relatively new, and I believe the only ones are anabolic related and not dht, but perhaps there has been research into that as well. It seems well worth looking into as they have much less danger, but even the anabolic ones are in very early stages so I wouldn't hold out hope for that any time soon.

Did you outgrow your hormonal acne, or did you use the hormonal products, or currently use?

I have noticed some of those other symptoms of DHT, not sure if they are directly related to DHT for me though. Sinus draining when a problem is fixed by a gluticorticoid nasal spray, haven't felt the bone and joint issues, but for general mental fatigue Alcar and other nootropic compounds which are great for a variety of reasons.

#39 bobbi364

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:35 PM

The herbs I listed block the enzyme that creates DHT, so it is suppose to block it, I am not sure what else they are used for other than, baldness, ED, and prostate health (enlarged prostate).

I didn't outgrow my acne, per say, I just control my hormones, with nothing except indulgence, or lack there of, moderation is key to everything. Once I stopped watching porn/masturbation I cleared up, I do have sex but not nearly as much as I use to masturbate, which was almost daily.

I also stopped using chemicals on my skin, which helped tremendously as well.

I've been acne clear for 6 years.

#40 FSAS

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:52 PM

What is the opinion on pumpkin seed for decreasing the DHT levels? I read that pumpkin seed reduces the DHT production.

i used to eat pumpkins seeds every morning (a decent amont) i didnt notice anything, i cut them out and didnt notice anything and now eating them again and sont notice a change in acne. u might have to eat a whole lot rather than a handful but im not sure if seeds are hard to digest so i kinda avoid that



also people mentioned topicals.
about topical antiandrogens i've noticed nirzoal (a weak one) cleared me up when i tried it on an area of my face, except my face got way too dry. i even tried using crushed up spiro but that did nothing. Androscience are apparently working on something regarding a topical antiandrogen for acne, they're still doing trials however, the lady said they will update the state of the research later this year

Edited by FSAS, 03 February 2012 - 07:53 PM.





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