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D H T The Sole Creator Of Acne

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Masturbation/sex/orgasm/ejaculation is not the only thing that ramps up DHT production. High fatty diets, high insulin, dairy/milk, processed/refined foods, and others also create pathways to higher DHT production, and does so in a different fashion in each individual. This is why some can ejaculate once a day and never have and adverse affects, while someone could do it once a week and it would be enough DHT production to cause acne, same thing works with other food/diet routines. For me ejaculation raises my DHT production 10x, however I never have any issues with food, as in, food never makes me breakout.

There are ways to help combat DHT production, and I would recommend these to all acne patients.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5057407_stop-dht-naturally.html

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There are many people on these boards that have tried acne "diets" with little to no success, it is because food is not effecting your DHT production. And if acne "diet" has cleared your skin it is one of two reasons, the food you eat either raises your DHT production, or you have a food intolerance. HOWEVER, food intolerances have many many symptoms, and it is extremely rare that acne would be the only symptom experienced, you would also have other problems, not just acne.

DHT production leads to acne because it is the number 1 androgen, it directly influences the sebum gland, which ramps up oil production when DHT is produced. This leads to baldness and acne.

Here are a few sources (HOWEVER, I AM LEAVING THIS OPEN FOR YOU TO BROWSE/RESEARCH THE NET FOR YOURSELVES):

http://www.regrow-thinning-hair.com/DHT.Diet.Hair.Loss.Thinning.Hair.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2715202/

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Just because it may be the cause of acne for some, does not mean it is the enemy. Androgens are responsible for making men , men. My test and dht levels are at an all time high, due to good diet and excersize. My health, both internal and skin are also at their best, no acne anywhere. Which would point to them being neccessary for my wellbeing, not acne and hair loss.

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Just because it may be the cause of acne for some, does not mean it is the enemy. Androgens are responsible for making men , men. My test and dht levels are at an all time high, due to good diet and excersize. My health, both internal and skin are also at their best, no acne anywhere. Which would point to them being neccessary for my wellbeing, not acne and hair loss.

As we all know hair loss does not occur overnight. There are a handful of things that can causes acne that has nothing to do with DHT, however those are extremely rare, especially in the western diet. I do know that there is no conclusive proof that raised testosterone levels in the body from exercising will, in fact produce more DHT. It seems like this would be the logical case, but I am sure it has not been proven. Also, when we ask ourselves this question, there are many variables that we have to take into consideration: such as what accelerated positive effects does the increased metabolism from exercise give us? There is proof that exercise promotes the body to raise Serotonin levels. Serotonin, basically, is what keeps our moods on an even keel, so to speak; a mood elevator, if you will.When you exercise you raise testosterone, not always DHT levels. On another note, you say your levels are at an all time high, compared to what? when? There is no baseline for DHT, it is more of a peak, drop, peak, drop, sinusoidal pattern.

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There are many people on these boards that have tried acne "diets" with little to no success, it is because food is not effecting your DHT production. And if acne "diet" has cleared your skin it is one of two reasons, the food you eat either raises your DHT production, or you have a food intolerance.

Thanks for mentioning that. Because that was the cause of acne for many of us.


Current Skin-Care Regimen (A work in progress):

Morning:

Gentle wash with DKR cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil (The lotion alone wasn't hydrating enough)

Skin 79 Korean BB Cream (excellent stuff)

Evening:

Gentle Wash with DKR Cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil


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There are many people on these boards that have tried acne "diets" with little to no success, it is because food is not effecting your DHT production. And if acne "diet" has cleared your skin it is one of two reasons, the food you eat either raises your DHT production, or you have a food intolerance.

Thanks for mentioning that. Because that was the cause of acne for many of us.

I'm not shy to admit that food intolerances can cause ance. Do you have other symptoms?

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O yeah. I had chronic depression/anxiety, hives, full coverage psoriasis, low energy, insomnia, "restless leg syndrome", constipation, gut pain, nausea, and a number of other weird, hard to describe symtoms. The list of things that have been cured by removing gluten, corn, dairy and soy from my diet just goes on and on and on...


Current Skin-Care Regimen (A work in progress):

Morning:

Gentle wash with DKR cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil (The lotion alone wasn't hydrating enough)

Skin 79 Korean BB Cream (excellent stuff)

Evening:

Gentle Wash with DKR Cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil


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O yeah. I had chronic depression/anxiety, hives, full coverage psoriasis, low energy, insomnia, "restless leg syndrome", constipation, gut pain, nausea, and a number of other weird, hard to describe symtoms. The list of things that have been cured by removing gluten, corn, dairy and soy from my diet just goes on and on and on...

Wow, I am sorry to hear, that, but at least you figured it out, good job.

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I have to play devil's advocate and post this link.

http://www.mikemahle...-androgens.html

I posted it in another thread, but this one seems to be more specific to the information.

"According to Jonathan Wright, M.D. (Maximize Your Vitality And Potency) the balance of DHT and 4-androstenedione should be 1:1. If DHT is higher and androstenedione lower, it creates a pro-carcinogenic state. However, if DHT and androstenedione levels are both high and at a 1:1 ratio, the pro-carcinogenic properties of high DHT are neutralized by the anti-carcinogenic properties of androstenedione. So if you've had blood work indicating high DHT levels, be sure to have the androstenedione levels measure as well."

What are the side effects? All you state is that it is bad if one has high DHT to androstenedione, there is no devils advocate to anything I mention. You are merely stating that this could also be a problem. What about 2:1 DHT to andro.? what about other ratios, you are dealing with a very small margin and arent giving us what the meaning is, besides that it could possibly be pro-carsinogenic, what does this mean for acne?

In contrast, I give a direct link to acne, DHT = high oil production (sebum gland unbalanced) = acne.

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I have really high doubts about this article now, and if I were you I would sure for other articles that back up these claims. Saw Palmetto is used to treat E.D. erectile dysfunction, and has no side effects that are a risk to healthy sex drive, lets get that straight.

Secondly, "men feel best when testosterone, DHT, andro., DHEA levels are optimized, thus LOWERING ANDROGEN LEVELS (exactly what you do when you lower DHT spikes). Not only that, saw palmetto is used to help with enlarged prostates, so is nettle root extract.

"without adequate DHT men have no body hair at all"...TOTAL BS. If that were true, many women would be bald, because the level of DHT in women is much much lower, although can still impact their acne due to DHT SPIKES, thus effecting sebum oil production.

http://www.procerin.com/

All the medications on the market that block/inhibit DHT are all safe for consumption, approved by the FDA to have no ill side effects, none what so ever. Do a simple google search "dht causes baldness" and vast array of articles/forums/blogs about it.

The idea is not to worry about the ejaculation/acne connection, because not only does ejaculation cause acne through DHT spikes it also releases many more hormones, which lead to other ill effects, it isn't just acne that can be harmful from high DHT/hormones.

And for the record, I never read that article, as I can see huge flaws in what you quote from it, that is enough for me not to.

Here is a good break down of DHT on fair follicles.

http://www.dhtblocker.net/

Using anything to block DHT will only prevent excess oil production, not hair growth. Also, the main reason DHT is damaging unlike testosterone and other T byproducts is the fact that DHT is converted so quickly, unlike testosterone.

Not to mention a ban on androstenedione.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has announced a crackdown on products containing androstenedione, commonly known as "andro." The products are marketed over the counter as dietary supplements that enhance athletic performance. In the body, androstenedione is converted into testosterone and estrogen.

While ads claim that andro-containing supplements promote increased muscle mass, research has not shown this to be the case. In addition, studies have shown side effects and potential long-term risks; androstenedione poses the same kinds of health risks as anabolic steroids. Given the lack of proven benefits and the risks, the FDA is requesting companies to stop distributing dietary supplements containing androstenedione. The FDA is also encouraging Congress to consider legislation to classify these products as a controlled substance.

Potential Long-Term Risks

For men—shrinkage of testicles, growth of breast tissue, impotence

For women—male pattern baldness, increased facial hair, increased risk for breast cancer and endometrial cancer, blood clots

For youth—acne, early start of puberty, stunted growth

That is a terrible article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androstenedione

Take a read on the biological effects. Very inconclusive even on high doses.

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Do a simple google search, it lays itself all out.  As a scientist I can clearly see your lack of research on the matter.  If the FDA is wrong and bans androstenedione, and even steroid users hate it, then why bolster its claim that people need to raise it?

Look at the long-term effects from androstenedione:

For men—shrinkage of testicles, growth of breast tissue, impotence

For women—male pattern baldness, increased facial hair, increased risk for breast cancer and endometrial cancer, blood clots

For youth—acne, early start of puberty, stunted growth

Yes, I linked a product, however, you must not understand anything about product approval.  They had to get their product approved by the FDA, so it is safe for consumption.  I am not claiming to use any of those products, it's a simple break down, one I thought you might be able to understand, but I can see you have bigger problems on your hands.

You want me to come over to your residence and do a google search for you?

You want good articles from real scientists, fine here ya go:

(over 4000 articles/journals)

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,10&q=dht+causes+hair+loss

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=side+effects+of+androstenedione&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0%2C10&as_ylo=&as_vis=0

Go head, run from a conversation.

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what are ways that people would suggest to inhibit dht? Besides saw palmetto ..is anything natural effective enough? If dht is the sole creator how come acne cant be cured by a particular pill to control this? - curious, not arguing :)

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That is a good question.  There are things besides saw palmetto, those include: nettle root extract, pygeum, and other products on the market that claim to inhibit DHT, mostly made for baldness.  The main reason it isn't touched apon in the field is because many doctors do not realize this, apart from that, large companies would not like this idea, because it would mean them losing millions of dollars.  It is the same way with cancer,there has been a cure for all forms of cancer since the late 1980s, look up Burnzynski Clinic in Houston, TX.  Big pharma tried to shut them down, and even take their cure and their rights to practice, they won every single time and are continuing to cure cancer to this day.  There is a TV show on it as well, sure you can watch that on youtube.

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add to that green tea, pumpkin seed oil, and other natural herbs.

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As we all know hair loss does not occur overnight. There are a handful of things that can causes acne that has nothing to do with DHT, however those are extremely rare, especially in the western diet. I do know that there is no conclusive proof that raised testosterone levels in the body from exercising will, in fact produce more DHT. It seems like this would be the logical case, but I am sure it has not been proven. Also, when we ask ourselves this question, there are many variables that we have to take into consideration: such as what accelerated positive effects does the increased metabolism from exercise give us? There is proof that exercise promotes the body to raise Serotonin levels. Serotonin, basically, is what keeps our moods on an even keel, so to speak; a mood elevator, if you will.When you exercise you raise testosterone, not always DHT levels. On another note, you say your levels are at an all time high, compared to what? when? There is no baseline for DHT, it is more of a peak, drop, peak, drop, sinusoidal pattern.

My test levels have gone up from a combination of diet and exercise, estrogen levels are way down, and my 5-alpha reductase levels are up. Not that it clearly states super high dht levels, but hormones are typically the root of acne in women, not as much in men. As for the western diet, only a small percentage of people actually know how to eat right. They typically don't eat much outside of carbs, a little protein, and little fat. That combined with poor sources of all of those, can end up with a lot more digestive and metabolic issues than those who do eat right.

As for trying to lower dht levels, that can lead to increased estrogen production, causing worse effects than a little acne. I also see you say that higher androstenedione leads to a number of issues, those issues are typically only caused by exogenous hormone increase, as it signals the testicals to shut down, leading to atrophy. Messing with the levels of hormones in either gender can lead to much worse problems than acne or hair loss, so by trying to demonize it you show you don't understand homeostasis as well as you think. You say you're a scientist, but being a pub med parrot does not equal brains. The FDA approving a product just means that the benefits MAY out weigh the side effects. They approve many drugs that lead to altered brain chemistry, development issues both immediate and 2nd generation, and many other harmful drugs. They're the same people that were preaching trans fats in the 90's, and demonizing saturated fats. The research has shown time and time again that saturated fat is VERY good for people, and trans fats are the cause of multiple health issues.

Look up homeostasis, and the benefits of a consistent diet, with adequate amounts of fat, both unsaturated and saturated, large amounts of protein, and enough carbs to supply the body and mind with energy to complete the daily tasks of the user. Along with good micronutrient intake.

Since you believe the FDA has the best interests of the people, look up some of the BS they've done in the past years. The banning of piracetam, solely for the purpose of allowing it to be sold through prescription only, for one example. They're in the pocket of big pharma, they really don't care about the health of the consumers as long as they aren't taking the blame and can get their pockets lined with cash from big pharma.

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So exercising is actually a bad thing for acne? Because that raises testosteron level and thus leading to acne...

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well im not sure what all the fus is about but i know bobbi knows his stuff when it comes to this gerenal knowledge, hes a pretty intelligent dude and does a great amount of research on something before he just starts opening his mouth. i listened to his theories and masturbation and ive been 95% clear of acne for over a month now. just saying you guys shouldnt argue with him and say hes wrong or has bad research hes trying his hardest to bring information to lost souls who dont like to spend the time theirsevles to fix their issue with acne. hes been a great help and motivaton for me to clear my acne! so good luck to anyone out there who does not believe DHT is a major factor in acne because i believe 100% that it is.

So exercising is actually a bad thing for acne? Because that raises testosteron level and thus leading to acne...

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well im not sure what all the fus is about but i know bobbi knows his stuff when it comes to this gerenal knowledge, hes a pretty intelligent dude and does a great amount of research on something before he just starts opening his mouth. i listened to his theories and masturbation and ive been 95% clear of acne for over a month now. just saying you guys shouldnt argue with him and say hes wrong or has bad research hes trying his hardest to bring information to lost souls who dont like to spend the time theirsevles to fix their issue with acne. hes been a great help and motivaton for me to clear my acne! so good luck to anyone out there who does not believe DHT is a major factor in acne because i believe 100% that it is.

I'm not saying he isn't trying to help, but a lot of his statements are contradicting. Such as hating on the FDA and big pharma for trying to shut down a cancer clinic, that may or may not be effective for different types of cancer. Then talking about if the FDA approves something, it is definitely safe for use. They approved Accutane, but the list of side effects for that one are quite extensive. A large majority of prescription drugs are quite harmful, despite being approved for use by the FDA.

It is known that DHT is A cause of acne, but not the SOLE creator of acne. Not saying he's wrong there, but messing with hormones is quite dangerous. There's a reason steroids are now completely illegal outside of prescription and semi-legal prohormones. Teens and young adults took them consistently, even following proper protocols. These caused severe developmental issues and permanent alterations to brain chemistry as well as terminal illness. Hormones are not the enemy, but finding a balance in them is a good goal. Men need androgens in order to function properly, women not as much, but still necessary. Men also need some estrogen in order to develop properly, there's a reason hormones peak in puberty, and slowly decline after about 25 years of age.

It is also well known that the typical westerner has no idea about what a proper diet is. Even the food pyramid, although a decent starting point, does not provide the right nutritional information most people need. Schools don't teach the benefits of a higher protein diet, instead they say that high protein diets kill kidneys. They used to teach that trans fats were great, but even then it was known that they lead to disease and were completely counter productive to health.

He's helped some I'm sure, but not everyone can completely comprehend the data that is out there. That's one of the great things about message boards, places to have arguments and discussions to get the facts straight. That loses it's use, however, when people ignore common sense, can't comprehend data properly, or flat out take everything as insult and start a pissing match.

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so inhibting dht creates higher estrogen.. as a female im not sure i want that. i started taking saw palmetto a few days ago myself. i suppose you cant win either way. i understand its dangerous to mess with hormones but when acne is so hormonal related (im basically clear around my period and break out bad 2 weeks or so before)..clearly my hormones are doing strange things so would i not have the choice but to try alter them? spiro worked well for me as an antiandrogen, cleared me up 100% would that even mean about my acne if i've had my diet change for over 6-7 months now (The typical all veggie/fruit no wheat/gluten no sugar lots of hormone animal meats) and that didnt affect my acne at all. i sleep well too and exercise , drink a ton of water and supplement with cod liver and take a few herbs, probiotics and kefir, stress relief, wash my face with cold water and honey. my acne still wont budge. i dont understand that when only a small 25mg of spiro made all the difference. someone told me saw palmetto doesnt actually alter hormones but except blocks androgens (throws them around elsewhere inthe body or something). ? I dunno im lost here. seems like my hormones are clearly causing acne due to the pattern in it and where its situation but nothing natural is helping it lessen even the slightest over nearly 7 months now consistant use. hence wanting to try saw palmetto. definitely dont have hope for that though asno vitamins etc ever made a difference. it really botheres me that spiro worked so well but nothing else even similar is helping :/ doesnt make sense. i dont even understand why my skin turned so acne prone and so sentive to dht/androgens. nearly 20, talk about out of the blue :/

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Let us back track.  Andres, did you not see the link I posted from google scholar on the side effects of andro? Over 17k articles/journals, not just FDA.  I would also appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth.  "Since you believe the FDA has the best interests of the people, look up some of the BS they've done in the past years." Pointing out a contradiction from my stance on the FDA should reveal to you that I do not believe everything they say.

Inhibiting DHT does not always lead to the pathway of estrogen production, however if one experiences higher levels of estrogen you can take aromatase inhibitors, such as: chrysin, genistein, and quercetin.  Coupling saw palmetto with anti-aromatase tabs will keep a level balance if one experiences higher estrogen production, which isn't always the case.

I do my research, do not start "pissing matches", however, if that is the way you see things that is fine. "He's helped some I'm sure, but not everyone can completely comprehend the data that is out there. That's one of the great things about message boards, places to have arguments and discussions to get the facts straight. That loses it's use, however, when people ignore common sense, can't comprehend data properly, or flat out take everything as insult and start a pissing match."  I sense anger in this comment, be mad if you would like.  Comprehension of data?  What is there that I do not comprehend?  Please tell us all.  As for your levels of DHT/estrogen, like I said before there is no base level, so saying you have higher levels then you ever had just means you are peaking production, like stated before it is like a sinusoidal wave form, do you understand what that is?

I like these conversations as well, this is why the board is here. HOWEVER, please start posting links to some contradiction articles, because at the moment I am debating no data, something I would like to do and found a lack on your end of the matter.

So exercising is actually a bad thing for acne? Because that raises testosteron level and thus leading to acne...

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so inhibting dht creates higher estrogen.. as a female im not sure i want that. i started taking saw palmetto a few days ago myself. i suppose you cant win either way. i understand its dangerous to mess with hormones but when acne is so hormonal related (im basically clear around my period and break out bad 2 weeks or so before)..clearly my hormones are doing strange things so would i not have the choice but to try alter them? spiro worked well for me as an antiandrogen, cleared me up 100% would that even mean about my acne if i've had my diet change for over 6-7 months now (The typical all veggie/fruit no wheat/gluten no sugar lots of hormone animal meats) and that didnt affect my acne at all. i sleep well too and exercise , drink a ton of water and supplement with cod liver and take a few herbs, probiotics and kefir, stress relief, wash my face with cold water and honey. my acne still wont budge. i dont understand that when only a small 25mg of spiro made all the difference. someone told me saw palmetto doesnt actually alter hormones but except blocks androgens (throws them around elsewhere inthe body or something). ? I dunno im lost here. seems like my hormones are clearly causing acne due to the pattern in it and where its situation but nothing natural is helping it lessen even the slightest over nearly 7 months now consistant use. hence wanting to try saw palmetto. definitely dont have hope for that though asno vitamins etc ever made a difference. it really botheres me that spiro worked so well but nothing else even similar is helping :/ doesnt make sense. i dont even understand why my skin turned so acne prone and so sentive to dht/androgens. nearly 20, talk about out of the blue :/

well your acne is obviously caused my hormones alone seems how youve already experiemented and found out dieting and anything else doesnt work. id say that saw palmetto should help alot with you in your situation and if not id search the org for the ladies that found the best birthday control pill to help acne i think yasmin had raves going on about it. also i read some info a long time ago about 'broccoli pills and DIM supplement pills' that works for females and estrogen levels completely eliminating acne and also good luck with your journy! at least you know that you can eat whatever you want and be happy :) everyone on the diet hollistic forums have no fun with chocolate and cookies shake.gif


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