Acne FIGHTING Supplements & Regimensvitamin vitamins vitamin a vitamin e beta carotene magnesium zinc selenium
Posted 12 September 2004 - 04:01 PM
"B5 is the most effective therapy next to Accutane", that's what I usually hear. Well accutane is so effective because of it's anti-androgen and anti- IGF-1 abilities. IGF-1 is what is called into action when there is estrogen or testosterone present to grow cells, thus normal or over-enlargement of glands, tumors, or even cancer can result. However, by it preventing Alpha Diol G, a metabolite of DHT, and also possibly DHT, from being converted in your sebaceous glands, it also prevents them from being enlarged by IGF-1, thus it reduces your sebum production and also skin cell over-proliferaton. (I've posted studies about this previously, but will attach them accordingly later)
Perhaps it was a year ago, but someone on another board made a post referring to the natural conversion of Vitamin A into Natural Accutane (isotretinoin, 13-cis retinoic acid). He gave a list of neccessary supplements needed that would convert large doses of Vitamin A "safely" into this effective form. This list was also very much similar to some of the supplements that Leo's Your Last Acne Solution reccomends. Now there was a trial run on the board and people noted that their skin improved, or that it dried up and didn't improve, so who knows.
As for his regimen, I know that it's posted somewhere on these boards, but I cannot find it. However from what I recall, there are several vitamins & minerals that help to make Vitamin A into a natural form of Accutane. Those are B1, B2, Selenium, and some others, but I do know that Zinc contributes to Vitamin A being converted into 13 cis retinoic acid. In fact, Zinc, Vitamin A, 13-cis Retinoic Acid, Magnesium, Glutathione, and other nutrients have been reported as being defficient in acne sufferers, so I suppose that it makes sense that you would need at least zinc. Also Zinc sulphate (+b6) is a natural anti-androgen just like accutane is and also an anti-inflammatory and is succesful at treating acne & hirsutism for some around here. Therefore, taking it will boost your acne fighting power in more ways than one!
The anti-androgen & DHT inhibiting study used Zinc Sulphate, but I've heard that others also work and these are the forms available:
Zinc Sulphate mono- and hepta-hydrate
Zinc Methionine (Optizinc)
I don't know about the exact doses, but if you can taste zinc (metallic) then you are taking too much. Also, the form of zinc is very important as some are more absorbable as others, and they may not all behave the same way in regards to healing acne. Anyone have a favorite?
I've read that you can take 50,000 - 100,000 IU safely for 6 months before side effects occur. Also, while others on here have done it, they have also experienced dryness, loss of hair, headaches, etc on doses of 200,000 IU - 500,000 IU. This is a therapeutic dose amount, but can be used for 4 months under a doctors supervision and can yield "permanent" results. Therefore while probably not as severe as the effects of synthetic accutane, you are best to take the least amount neccessary of Vitamin A that's effective & SAFE as possible. So, according to Dr. Atkin's - Vita Nutrient Solution a good acne fighting regimen program at safer doses would be to do all of the following:
1. NO Sugars & Refined Carbohydrates [and Trans Fats] as this contributes to acne production (I can attest) and LOWERS these supplements effectiveness!
2. Zinc monomethionine (Optizinc) 30 - 100mg
3. B5 - 5mg - 1g
4. Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopheral acetate or mixed natural tocopherals) 400 IU - 3,000 IU
5. Acidolphilus (helps metabolize nutrients)
6. GLA ( more antiandrogenic than Zinc, anti-inflammatory) - 240mg - 1g
7. Vitamin A - 100,000 IU
Also, for those concerned with the use of large doses of Vitamin A (and I am), you can take lots of Beta Carotene (75,000 IU +), to further LOWER the above dose of Vitamin A, and your body will convert it into Vitamin A and then 13-cis retinoic acid as it needs to. Since carotenoids are pigments, you know you are taking too much when your skin changes color, thus reduce your amount accordingly ;-)
Posted 12 September 2004 - 04:29 PM
Also i don't think it's a good idea to cut out sugar as your body still needs sugar.
Posted 12 September 2004 - 05:10 PM
Natural Anti-Androgens & DHT Inhibitors
Now you can reduce your amount of androgens (and other steriod hormones) by changing your diet to one that favors LESS Insulin production. Therefore, that automatically lowers the amount of androgens available that will be converted into DHT. Yet you will still be producing DHT and will not get much DHT Inhibiting effects, unless you are consuming foods that contain the nutrients below. Depending on your sensitivity and due to loss of nutrients in cooked foods, sometimes one must supplement in order to fully achieve desired results.
Androgen Receptor Blockers
These are analogues of androgen, that look like it, but do not act like it. Therefore when they bind to androgen receptors, they prevent androgen from doing so, and do not activate the production of DHT.
Beta Sitosterol - found in plant phytosterol complexes in as much as 40% - 58%. Only 5 - 10% is absorbed though, and as such 300mg - 3g of phytosterols are the usual doses depending on treatment. This also helps to lower LDL Cholesterol levels and may reduce your risk of Heart disease.
EGCG (epigallocatechin gallate)- found in Green Tea at 45% EGCG. 300mg of Green Tea is the usual dosage. Can be taken as tea, capsule, or in patch form.
Curcumin - Found in Tumeric at 95% and also boosts Calcium D-Glucarate, which increases the elimination of "bad estrogen' (estradiol).
Indole-3-Carbinol (I3C) - comes from cruciferous vegetables, and can also promote the elimination of "bad estrogen" and also boosts glutathione and helps prevent cancer
DIM - extract from Indole 3-Carbinol and can also promote the elimination of "bad estrogen"and as such also boosts glutathione and helps prevent cancer
Androgen Binders / Reducers
These either promote the binding of Free Testosterone, or they reduce it's production.
Natural Estrogens - some boost 17 beta-hydroxysteriod dehydrogenase (17 b-HSD) inhibition and as such, oxidize (estrogens and) testosterone & DHT from their active/potent forms to their more inactive/weaker forms. Others may boost the binding of Free Testosterone, thus preventing it's activity.
N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) - this is a potent antioxidant that not only prevents lipid oxidation and reduce androgen levels, but also boosts Glutathione (reduces IGF-1) and aids in Co-Enzyme A synthesis (as does B5). http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12057717
D-Pinnitol - Found the most in Carob Syrup or Carob powder and converts into D-Chiro-Inositol if you have the enzymes to do so (diabetics are considered defficient in this enzyme)
D-Chirol-Inositol - found most in Buckwheat. The clinical dosage for this would be 500mg, so you would have to consume buckwheat as a daily staple to get close to that amount. This alone is currently being patented as a drug to help treat Diabetes (Type I & Type II) and PCOS. http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=15251831
Eqoul - so far the only DHT binder! It binds DHT specifically rendering it inactive, but will not bind Testosterone. It is currently only availble from Soy Isoflavones so... =( http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=14681200
Now the theory is that since Type II inhibitors work best for Prostate & Androgenic Alopecia, that Type I inhibitors will work best for Hirsuitism and Acne. However the goals should be to inhibit not just 5-alpha reductase, but also 3-alpha diol dehydrogenase (as this is what accutane inhibits)
Type ? Inhibitors
Vitamin B6 - Alone I don't know what type of inhibitor this is, but it works to enhance Zincs abilities. Use ONLY Pyridoxal HCL or Pyridoxal Phosphate (P5P) (Pyridoxine promotes DHT). Pyridoxamine HCL may also work as it will convert to P5P, but I'm not certain whether it boosts or inhibits DHT.
Copper - Both a Type I & Type II inhibitor and is also estrogenic.
Saw Palmetto - both an anti-androgen due to it's sterol content, but it also prevents the conversion of testosterone into DHT. As such, it will prevent aromatization of Testosterone, which reduces it's conversion into estrogen. Therefore, the result is an increased plasma level of Testosterone, Free Testosterone, BUT a blocked Androgen Recepter site so they can't do as much damage. I believe it is both a Type I and Type II inhibitor. 100mg - 320mg for males and up to 3,200mg for females.
Pygeum - works the same as Saw Palmetto.
Nettles - This actually works to prevent production of DHT just as Saw Palmetto does, but it also protects the amount of Free Testosterone available. Further increasing your amounts of Free Testosterone by binding to it's antagonist.
Type II Inhibitors
Diadzein - Soy Isoflavone
Genistein - Soy Isoflavone
Type I Inhibitors
Quercitin is also an anti-inflammatory
Caffeic Acid - a derivative of caffeine, yet behaves in a protetive mechanism increasing cancer prevention. You can purchase this as a supplement and is also one of the most potent Type I Inhibitors. It is also anti-inflammatory
Green Tea (Camellia sinensis) - This is both a Type I Inhibitor and also an anti-androgen (see EGCG). It also has polyphenols with antioxidant properties and helps reduce LDL choloesterol levels, aids in blood sugar metabolism, and has anti-inflammatory properites. You can purchase this with or without caffeine.
Zinc - While thisis also an anti-inflammatory and aids in Vitamin A metabolism, this is also a very tricky one. While It can work as a Type I Inhibitor as plenty will attest to it working to clear acne and also reduce hirsutism & androgen alopecia, I've heard that it can also either boost DHT or inhibit DHT producition. The form of Zinc may matter (zinc sulphate? gluconate?) or the key may be in adding B6 (alone may cause acne). http://www.ncbi.nlm....st_uids=3207614
Gamma-linolenic Acid (GLA) - An Omega 6 fatty acid found most abundantly in Borage Oil (& lesser amounts in Flaxseed, EPO, Black Current, Pumpkin, Hemp) but can also be converted from Alpha Linolenic Acid & Linoleic Acid Omega 3s. Not only is it an anti-inflammatory, but it is a more potent Type I inhbitor than EPA (Flaxseed Oil & EPO can break some people out)
EPA - found preformed in Fish Oils and Neptune Krill Oil. It is an Omega 3 and can be converted naturally from various foods sources, but people don't always consume enough of these foods or are enzyme defficient. This is also an anti-inflammatory and may reduces your LDL (bad) cholesterol levels.http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12589947
Next week...Natural Estrogens (that aren't soy)
Posted 12 September 2004 - 05:15 PM
Deficiencies of vitamin A speed up the keratinization of hair cells in the form of horns, which obstruct pores and choke the follicle
A deficiency in B2, even a little one can cause excessive oily skin as it helps to regulate sebum(biotin also does this to a lesser extent). It also helps you metabolize proteins, sugars, and fats(all B vitamins do this ), and reduces stress.
I was told that some studies used 10,000-15,000IU's daily of A and 100mg of B2 2-3 times a day and it stopped most peoples breakouts.
These two vitamins also combine to protect and strengthen the mucus membrane in your digestive tract.
The only trouble in my opinion is that when you take too much of one B vitamin, it creates an imbalance for the others. However it is water soluble and so your body may just flush whatever it doesn't need out and I would take a B complex just in case.
Posted 12 September 2004 - 05:18 PM
LOL, that is the regimien to follow if you want accutane like results. Although considering that you are a male and that males lose zinc..daily, that sounds like it would definately be a good choice (other males like it). Also, if you look at the list above, those are the supplements and their modes of actions. As for my point though, that is for you to decide what you want to do based on your personal situation (health or hormonal disorder?) and the information provided.
We hear about dozens upon dozens of supplements that are supposed to work, but only a few end up doing so. So if you have a specific goal in mind, perhaps something from that list will help you. You may also want to do some searches and see what others on these boards have found to be the most effective forms of those supplements. Oh, and you could never eliminate all sugar 100%. When people say sugar, they usually mean added sugar such as table sugar, candies, etc. ;-)
Posted 12 September 2004 - 07:06 PM
I was taking all the supplements you recommend here many years ago. I took 100,000 IU (or more) of beta carotene with zinc, a multiple B vitamin, chromium, selenium, primrose oil and vitamin E.
It didn't work for me, but then again my diet wasn't as clean back then as it is now. I think this supplemetal regimen did work a little , but cleared me maybe 40% some of the time.
I am very interested in your post on: Natural Anti-Androgens & DHT Inhibitors.
I can't wait to read your follow ups.
I really cannot thank you enough for your contribution to this forum. You never cease to amaze and impress me.
Posted 12 September 2004 - 09:12 PM
Posted 14 September 2004 - 04:18 AM
I'm especially interested in this because DHT is said to cause baldness (in most cases, 95%) too. The last couple of months i'm losing a lot of hairs, and this was bothering me just as bad as my acne. Maybe it was caused by stress (exams), or maybe because of my vitamin A intake. I took a lot of supplements, and most of them had vit A in it. I took something like 400% RDA, and on top of that also 2-3 g fish oil supplements, which contain a lot of vit A and D (doesnt say how much). I was eating a lot of fruit too, so probably it was even higher. I stopped all supplements 2 weeks ago.
Azelaic acid is said to block conversion of testosteron too. I know this is used as a topical , i dont think it is used orally. It's antibacterial too. You find it in Azelex, skinoren,... (i think 15-20%)
Zinc is also added in a lot of acne topicals. (I think zinc sulfate). And i read that this improves the effeciency. (By DHT blockage, or because it helps cells building up?????)
Revivogen is a recently new (?) product against baldness. I dont want to advertise this, but this product works on reducing DHT. Look at the ingredients:
Sd alcool-40, alpha linolenic acid, gamma linolenic acid, linoleic acid, oleic acid, palmitic acid, myristic acid, saw palmetto extract, azelaic acid, beta sito-sterol, grape seed extract, procyanidin oligomers, vitamin B6, ethyl laurate, phytol, zinc sulfate, niacin, vitamin E, EDTA, purified waters
Looks familial right? I read an interview with the maker too. He also mentions acne. He says his company is also working on something against acne, since it is also caused by DHT. He mentions that the main ingredient is GLA, which he says is one of the best DHT blockers. (actually it blocks alpha-5-reductase, the enzyme that transfers testosteron into DHT).
Of course, he's not gonna say bad things about his own product. But check this site: http://www.diagnose-...sary/G1431.html
Note: "GLA can help reduce candida-induced hair loss by suppressing conversion of testosterone to its derivative DHT, in the hair follicles..."
Only in the hair follicles???
The "inevitable" issue: ok, i'm sick of this topic too, but i'd like to know the truth for once and for all. I read that masturbation/sex/ejaculating give a sudden rush of hormones and promote DHT. Some say it does, some say it dont.
As you can see, there are still a lot of questions, i think DHT is the bad guy because it stimulates your glands, making them produce more sebum. It also stimulates your cells in the hair follicle, so they shed and clog the pores.
If anyone knows anything else about the subject, please post. If you have any info or tips about the baldness, they're welcome too. My problem is (i think) that my hairline is receding a bit, and above my temples.
This is what i know about supplements.
Chromium: some say it works for them, but Chr-picosomething is said to promote cancer, so be cautiaus. I read an article with an expert on chromium and he says nobody need supplements. You only need 10-11 mcg a day.
Fish oil: you need a good ratio of omega-3/omega-6 fatty acids. But there is a chance that these supplements are polluted with dioxins.... I dont know about the vit A and other substances in it... Dunno, maybe if i can find a product which gives more info about the substances in it.
GLA- ALA: these seem usefull to me. Havent taken them yet. Anti-inflammatory, block DHT (or is that only as a topical?). These are omega-6. So an omega 3 togheter with this is probably good.
Zinc: works well togheter with Selenium(only a bit of this, high amounts are toxic). You don't need that much as everyone says. I think it is best to stay below 50mg.
Some say it decreases testosterone-levels (by blocking its conversion to DHT???), others say this is bull. Zinc is best not taken with calcium, and between meals for best absorption. I know men lose zinc through their sperm (by ejaculating), but i dont know how much. Anyone know this?
vitamins: i dont trust vit A at all (taking supplements of this also weakens your bones) , vit B12 is said to cause acne directly.
the other b-vitamins are ok, and they are pretty safe i think (since water-soluble)
high amounts of vit B5: i think this puts stress on your liver/kidneys, dont know about this, i think it throws out the balance with the other B-vitamins, since they work togheter. A lot of people claim it works though.
vit C: seems good (in general) , anyone knows if it does something for your skin??? I know C is used in our body to restore vit E too, so they kinda work togheter. Also controlls your cortisol (which breaks off tissue).
vit E: this vitamin seems very promising to me. Prevents the oxidation of fats. I think a lot of people are defecient in this.
I stopped drinking milk because there are a lot of toxins in it. I think my body doesnt like lactose either. I also believe that insulin is a culprit. Studys have shown that it acts like a pro-hormone. Taking high amounts of sugar causes insulin spikes. Since i stopped soda's and other sugar bombs i noticed my acne improved somewhat.
Ok, this is about all i know. Please give any comments, info, advice. Everything can be used. I know a lot of this info is already known by the experts. But maybe the newbies can learn something of it. Cyal
Posted 14 September 2004 - 05:10 AM
I feel very blessed about it.
Posted 14 September 2004 - 05:53 AM
I am currently taking the following supplements:
Vitamin C (with rosehips and bioflavonoids) - 1-2 grams per day
Vitamin E (natural source) - 400-800 IU per day
Zinc (chelated zinc glutonate) - 50mg per day
Acidophilus - 1 billion organisms per day
I also alternate the following:
Evening Primrose Oil - 1000mg
Alpha Lipoic acid (synthetic form) - 30mg
Taking both every other day
As well as this, I take
2 tablespoons Aloe Vera juice
1 teaspoon Chinese Bitters
2 capsules Indian Tejaswini
Since following this regimen, I have noticed a dramatic improvement in my acne and in my healing capacities, particularly since taking accutane around 6 months ago.
I cannot believe that people are still claiming that diet does not affect acne.
Thanks again, Sweet Jade!
Posted 14 September 2004 - 05:59 AM
Dr Gillian McKeith is among the leading nutritionists in the UK, and her book "You are what you eat" is currently No.1 in the UK charts. It recommends treatments such as liver cleansing and colonic irrigation, so it's good to see that these treatments are being brought to a wider audience! It's a great read - I wholeheartedly recommend it to all UK members.
Anyway, she lists the supplements that she has used with success for treating acne.
They are as follows:
- beta carotene (25,000 IU)
- Vitamin A (10,000 IU)
-Vitamin B complex (50-100mg)
- Pantothenic Acid (pro-Vitamin B5) (25 mg, four times a day)
- Vitamin B6 (50mg)
-Propolis (500 mg)
- Zinc (50mg)
-Borage oil capsules daily
- Vitamin C (1000 mg twice daily)
-Acidophilus with Bifidus to promote colon health and elimination of toxins.
Much of the stuff that you have been recommending, then.
(obviously, not all these supplements should be taken at once)
I am particularly interested in propolis - apparently it is a natural antibiotic produced by bees that does not affect 'friendly bacteria'.
Has anyone tried this?
Thanks again, sweetjade.
Posted 14 September 2004 - 10:20 AM
Posted 14 September 2004 - 11:16 AM
WOW, that is some research you've been doing. I noticed too with the natural hair inhibitors and hair growers that they included anti-androgens & dht inhibitors in their formulas. Then I checked a growth product of my own that I've used off & on over the years cuz actually worked and it had Linoleoc acid & oleic acid as well as iron, magnesium, choline, inositol, phosphorus and even calcium minerals. Unfortunately it also had palmitic and stearic acids which can break you out and it did that to my scalp. Even after I changed my diet it STILL would break my scalp out so I've contemplated on making my own formula similar to those that you posted above.
Also for the Chromium since picolinate induces DNA damage, most good supplement formulas use Chromium GTF, Polynicotinate, or Nicotinate which don't have those problems. Women with PCOS rate this as a op one next to GLA & D-chiro-inositol. However NAC is also very good with being an anti-androgen, by reducing insulin spikes. Evigrex loves R-ALA over Chromium, so that's the one I'll be testing out in a few weeks.
Also, yeah B12 and B6 have been shown to induce acne, even in people that never had acne! Unlike with Iodine, the amounts are alot smaller say 50mg - 200mg, which is a very high amount for those vitamins. but even those that use B5 Therapy according to Dr. Leung, would breakout from B6. However, perhaps when you combine B6 + Zinc it works differently in order increase zincs ability as an antiandrogen as it is one also.
So anyway, if you haven't tried those hair formulas give it a shot. Let us knwo what works for you.
Posted 14 September 2004 - 11:21 AM
|QUOTE (Ben16 @ Sep 14 2004, 10:07 AM)|
|Hey, I am thinking about ordering some supplements off the net.SweetJade, Evigrex, what do you recommend?Could you also provide a link where I could order them for a good price, thanks.|
Hmm, since you're a guy perhaps you would do really well with Zinc. Also, you can give the fish oils a shot too. Those two are fairly safe for most people and perhaps it's the kick you need. I tend to buy in powder form, and since you live in Europe, I don't know what brands to reccomend for you, but do any of these sound familar:
Neutraceutical Sciences Institute (NSI)
Vitamin Research Products
Anyone know of others that would more specifically be in Europe?
Also the most absorble forms of supplements are those that are Liquid, Powder, Capsule, Or Gel Caps.
Bye for now
Posted 14 September 2004 - 12:13 PM
|QUOTE (Rossignol @ Sep 14 2004, 05:40 AM)|
|I am currently taking the following supplements:|
Vitamin C (with rosehips and bioflavonoids) - 1-2 grams per day
Vitamin E (natural source) - 400-800 IU per day
Zinc (chelated zinc glutonate) - 50mg per day
Acidophilus - 1 billion organisms per day
I hope Acidophilus is not the latin word for "rabbit", otherwise you'd be one hungry monster.
|I am particularly interested in propolis - apparently it is a natural antibiotic produced by bees that does not affect 'friendly bacteria'.|
Has anyone tried this?
I remember a thread on another site where this guy had done A LOT of research about DHT and alpha-5-reductase. He thought this was the acne trigger.
Its a bit sad that he didnt really finish the job, he just gave a lot of information, it was very interesting.
Here is it if you wanna read: (its 15 pages, but worth reading)
He also talks about propolis, he said it blocks DHT and acts as an antibiotic, killing bacteria. He also mentions GLA and ALA
I'm becoming very interested in GLA and ALA. Does anyone know the exact difference between these???
Research --> says GLA is better
Keep the good stuff coming.
Posted 14 September 2004 - 01:23 PM
I agree - this forum has been great lately - like Torbosk said, keep the good stuff coming!
Posted 14 September 2004 - 02:09 PM
I'm wary of long term mega dose taking tho...so will most likely cut down on the b5 in a few weeks.....What about coenzyme Q10, an antioxidant?
I also read that zinc picolinate is the best absorbed....
Posted 14 September 2004 - 02:21 PM