Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Advice from any of you experts out there ...

19 posts in this topic

Hi.

Recently, I posted in the Accutane forum to ask if anyone knew how to repair long-term damage from that drug (which is very similar to a high dose of Vitamin A). Somebody advised I check these forums, which I will in more detail when I have some time.

For now, I just wanted to ask a few questions...

Does anybody (who knows about Accutane) have anything they'd recommend me to take? I take various supplements at the moment... B Complex, Biotin, Vitamin C, Vitamin E (and more).

A couple of things I've been suggested to try are:

- Calcium D-Glucarate

- Ganoderma lucidum extract (a medicinal mushroom which I can't seem to find for sale on UK websites)

Could anybody tell me if these are worth a go?

I'd appreciate it.

Thanks for taking time to read this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Er...probably fish oil and hyaluronic acid. But I'm no expert! I took hyraluronic acid post-accutane though.

Hyaluronic acid info: http://www.discount-vitamins-herbs.net/Hyaluronic-acid.htm

Cheers man.. I actually take Omega 3 (1000mg) daily, and for a few months I was taking HLA.

Are you saying it helped you? Maybe the brand I tried wasn't the best, because I got very excited after reading lots about it and then nothing happened. I forget what dosage I was taking, but I took a few per day. How much were you taking? Cheers!

Indy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, how old are you? What are the side effects you are experiencing right now that makes you want to take supplements?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, how old are you? What are the side effects you are experiencing right now that makes you want to take supplements?

I'm 20, nearly 21... Side effects down below:

- Dry Eyes (Severe)

- E.D/ Low Libido (Started last year and has gone on consistently since)

- Hair-loss (Including eyebrows, facial hair 'gaps' and body hair)

- Slow Healing (Shaving is a pain now - No, it's not my technique)

- Lack of sebum (oil)

- Brain Fog/ Memory problems - Somewhat minor

- Anxiety (mainly because of the other side effects - i.e. dry eyes causing me to feel embarassed about eye contact)

- Excessive hair (Not related to head, but my beard grows high up on cheeks and even on the outside of my nose)

- I believe I look older than I should due to lack of oil

- Joint/Muscle problems - Aches/ Slow recovery

- Excessive sweating.. Terrible if I go running at the gym, for example.

- Dry mouth

- Nosebleeds more than I should

- Fatigue

- Overall depression and confusion (*Rhetorical question* Is this a direct symptom or am I like it because of all the other side-effects stressing me out?)

(This is from my post in the accutane forum)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh wow! That sounds horrible! I don't want to give you the wrong advice, but definitely taking more fish oil. I think 5-10 grams? And your diet right now, what does that look like? And how long have you been off Accutane?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh wow! That sounds horrible! I don't want to give you the wrong advice, but definitely taking more fish oil. I think 5-10 grams? And your diet right now, what does that look like? And how long have you been off Accutane?

I've been off it 5 years. When did you take it, and do you suffer any side-effects? I'm doing several things to try and sort the problems, including seeing a Homeopath.

My diet is pretty good. I still have bad foods every now and then (meaning chocolate), but I don't drink mink... I use soya if I need it. Normally drink lots and lots of water and natural teas (mint, green, etc).

Breakfast: Oatmeal with cinammon, and normally an apple.

Lunch is normally the same every day: Tuna rolls/sandwiches, banana, almond nuts, apple, orange, salad.

Dinner I have whatever my Mum cooks, which is generally a 'normal meal', including veg.

Overall, I eat very healthy and never smoke (never have), and don't drink alcohol or caffeine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Indigo, you can find ganoderma lucidum extract on UK ebay - there were a couple of sources there last time I looked, but you might want to go for the pricier stuff over the cheaper stuff, as some of these chinese herbal medicines can be somewhat suspect.

I have no experience with accutane damage myself, but I'm guessing it screws with your liver, so some kind of liver cleansing protocol would be worth thinking about - again not something I have any experience of, but many people swear by the olive oil, grapefruit and epsom salt cleanse. Failing that if it's a bit too icky for you, how about a juice fast or a water fast, both of which offer very deep detoxification and healing.

Herbal teas with milk thistle, dandelion, burdock root and nettle would help with both cleansisng you liver and blood - Dr Stuarts in Holland and Barrett do a good range.

Also, some of your symptoms seem to suggest that candida or food intolerances could be an issue for you. I suffered from really bad brain fog and anxiety when my yeast overgrowth was at it's worst. I am wondering if you have also taken anitbiotics to deal with your acne at some point? If so gut dysbiosis may be adding to your problems and overburdening your liver to an even greater extent. Do you have a coated tongue, stuffy nose, headaches? A food elimination diet starting with the most obvious culprits of grains and dairy might be a good idea, and if you feel candida relates then a course of natural anitfungals.

Colon cleansing is prob something else you should consider - psyllium and terramin clay are my colon cleansers of choice.

And then there are probiotics to replenish the balance of good and bad bacteria, but these won't have any effect until you have dealt with candida, food intolerances and leaky gut - if of course these are indeed issues for you.

There are loads of other things that I know I've not mentioned, but that's a start for you. It's just a case of working out what applies to you before you jump in and try everything - get tests and blood panels done if you want to be sure.

Need to get my 11 year old to bed now! All the best and welcome to the board :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many people here take issue with soy (I do, personally I would stop drinking it), but besides that your diet is nothing to bash you about. Seems pretty dang healthy. And you are still experiencing these side effects, and hyaluronic acid didn't help. *thinking* More hyaluronic acid? Perhaps you weren't taking enough (annoying to hear that, but it could be true). Taking high doses of fish oil and HA I still lean towards. Also, mint is anti-androgenic from what I understand, which people utilize to lower oil production in the body. That's why I drink it. For your purposes that could be a bad thing!

I have been off Accutane a couple years now. Side effects went away fairly quickly, within a couple months. Although my oil has come back, and it did not cure my acne at all. So..I asked how long you had been off it because maybe your body would bounce back considering you are so young. But it hasn't. Sorry to hear that.

I'm sure someone here can give you better advice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Many people here take issue with soy (I do, personally I would stop drinking it)

Absolutely, you seem to have a problem with your hormones from what you have said regards excess hair growth on face and reduced libido, and soy is known to reduce testosterone levels in men. This got me thinking and did some digging regards testosterone and it's conversion to DHT, the hormone that regulates hair loss and sebum production. Came up with this:

http://www.dryeyezone.com/talk/entry.php?3...-The-connection

and this:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/12/4874

Seems to me that accutane may have damaged your ability to produce testosterone, your androgen receptors have been damaged or you are converting too much testosterone to DHT, hence the increased hair growth in unwanted places.

Combined with the dietry intolerances that so many of us acne sufferers seem to have, this could explain the range of symptoms you are experiencing. Read the Whole wheat bread thread on here and see if it resonates with your situation...A few more articles for you regarding gluten sensitivity and testosterone levels:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/a...1825-6/abstract

http://www.davehompes.co.uk/resources/LOW%...INTOLERANCE.pdf

http://www.celiac.com/blogs/148/Sex-DriveT...tain-Foods.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My diet is pretty good. I still have bad foods every now and then (meaning chocolate), but I don't drink mink... I use soya if I need it. Normally drink lots and lots of water and natural teas (mint, green, etc).

Breakfast: Oatmeal with cinammon, and normally an apple.

Lunch is normally the same every day: Tuna rolls/sandwiches, banana, almond nuts, apple, orange, salad.

Dinner I have whatever my Mum cooks, which is generally a 'normal meal', including veg.

Overall, I eat very healthy and never smoke (never have), and don't drink alcohol or caffeine.

FYI: The chocolate isn't any worse than the bread you have for lunch. And low sugar dark chocolate is very good for you.


Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there is a possibility that higher amounts of vitamin d could counter the negative effects of accutane, i have heard one person claim this. There is also a relationship between vitamin a and d, where when taking either one in the absence of the other in high amounts, leads to negative effects, but taking both together in high amounts eliminates any effects of toxicity.


#1.critical nutritional issues- b12(three forms exist), Calcium(yogurt, cheese or calcium phosphate supps) and vitamin d(sun or supps not to exceed 1000 iu). heme iron-most absorbable from meat only, clams are high. these are the most difficult vitamins to get and absorb. All others or about the same in difficulty in absorption. MAgnesium in our food supply is generally low as well, try natural calm supps.

#2 Fats- monounsaturated should dominate(olives), followed by polyunsaturated plant sources(nuts) but not if you have acne. the health benefits of fish oil and fish are controversial and i dont consume them due to mercury contamination and immune supression avoid processed fats if possible.

#3 Protein/amino acids- dairy and eggs best sources for tryptophan and methionine which convert to powerful antioxidants melatonin and glutathione.

#4 Carotenoids- alpha- beta carotene, beta cryptoxanthin, lutein zeaxanthin, astaxanthin. these are vital to human nutrition, carrots, butternut squash, pumpkin, chili pepper and cayenne pepper are the best sources.

#5 Regularity-BM at least once a day, Moist, large stools, 1 piece ideal, no maldigestion, no floating stools indicative of maldigested fat. HOW- insoluble fiber- wheat and cooked vegetables. soluble fiber-oats/ good bacteria ferment soluble fiber making short chain fatty acids that inhibit pathogens.

#6 Circadian cycles-Light, get up with the sun, and expose your entire body to it. darkness-melatonin is released upon the sensing of absolute darkness. sleep in a pitch black room, try to ensure 10 hours total darkness, wear sunglasses before bed. do not eat too late at night.

#7 Desirable physiological states(positive moods/emotions) do precisely what you like and what feels good to you, but not regardless of consequences, just from a perspective that, you own your life, and can determine precisely what you do with it and need not answer or ask of permission from anyone,achieving maximum autonomy and self government.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi.

Recently, I posted in the Accutane forum to ask if anyone knew how to repair long-term damage from that drug (which is very similar to a high dose of Vitamin A). Somebody advised I check these forums, which I will in more detail when I have some time.

For now, I just wanted to ask a few questions...

Does anybody (who knows about Accutane) have anything they'd recommend me to take? I take various supplements at the moment... B Complex, Biotin, Vitamin C, Vitamin E (and more).

A couple of things I've been suggested to try are:

- Calcium D-Glucarate

- Ganoderma lucidum extract (a medicinal mushroom which I can't seem to find for sale on UK websites)

Could anybody tell me if these are worth a go?

I'd appreciate it.

Thanks for taking time to read this

I have also been taned.

The things that I have found to be helpful for recovering are:

-Gelatinized maca + Siberian Ginseng + Arginine-alpha-ketoglutarate

-HCGenerate

-Testogel

Check out propeciahelp to get up to speed.

My endocrinologist checked testosterone levels, found them to be borderline low, and told me that is why accutane caused problems. He put me on Testogel and things improved a lot. But a few months later, ED came back. I may start Testogel again, or HCG shots, or HCGenerate.

Also, be careful with the fish oil. It is a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor (like accutane) and large doses have an antiandrogen effect.

http://meridianvalleylab.com/5-alpha-reduc...ver-inhibition/

Have you seen a good endocrinologist? Has he checked your testosterone (total & free), estradiol, pituitary hormones (LH, FSH, prolactin), thyroid hormones (TSH, T3, T4, thyroid antibodies), H1c and vitamin levels? These should be tested at 8:00 am. They are the minimum tests one should have when having ED problems. Before taking supplements, it is better to get tested so you know exactly what your body needs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Indigo, you can find ganoderma lucidum extract on UK ebay - there were a couple of sources there last time I looked, but you might want to go for the pricier stuff over the cheaper stuff, as some of these chinese herbal medicines can be somewhat suspect.

I have no experience with accutane damage myself, but I'm guessing it screws with your liver, so some kind of liver cleansing protocol would be worth thinking about - again not something I have any experience of, but many people swear by the olive oil, grapefruit and epsom salt cleanse. Failing that if it's a bit too icky for you, how about a juice fast or a water fast, both of which offer very deep detoxification and healing.

Herbal teas with milk thistle, dandelion, burdock root and nettle would help with both cleansisng you liver and blood - Dr Stuarts in Holland and Barrett do a good range.

Also, some of your symptoms seem to suggest that candida or food intolerances could be an issue for you. I suffered from really bad brain fog and anxiety when my yeast overgrowth was at it's worst. I am wondering if you have also taken anitbiotics to deal with your acne at some point? If so gut dysbiosis may be adding to your problems and overburdening your liver to an even greater extent. Do you have a coated tongue, stuffy nose, headaches? A food elimination diet starting with the most obvious culprits of grains and dairy might be a good idea, and if you feel candida relates then a course of natural anitfungals.

Colon cleansing is prob something else you should consider - psyllium and terramin clay are my colon cleansers of choice.

And then there are probiotics to replenish the balance of good and bad bacteria, but these won't have any effect until you have dealt with candida, food intolerances and leaky gut - if of course these are indeed issues for you.

There are loads of other things that I know I've not mentioned, but that's a start for you. It's just a case of working out what applies to you before you jump in and try everything - get tests and blood panels done if you want to be sure.

Need to get my 11 year old to bed now! All the best and welcome to the board :)

Hi... my response is 3 months late. I'm sorry - only just realised I had more responses to this.

Thanks for your help though. I started taking Reishi (ganoderma lucidum) a couple of weeks ago, as well as Ho Shou Wu and Cordyceps. Bit pricey, but the source is reliable and turns out the seller took Accutane too!

I'm definitely eating better though. Cut out bread/milk/don't drink alcohol anyway, have lots of fruit (love watermelon so much). I think I took a small amount of antibiotics before accutane, so I've learned all about what that does and now take acidophillus. I also got psyllium the other day as I've had trouble going to the loo (despite all the fibre). Again, accutane seems to be the culprit..

I take a fair few liver cleansing herbs so hopefully they're doing something. So far, I've not noticed. I gave up my job so I could try and sort my life out though, so now's my best time to experiment with cleansing (I used to crave sugar at work because I got tired - It was an office job)

My tongue does have a white coating about halfway back, so possibly that's telling me something.

Cheers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi.

Recently, I posted in the Accutane forum to ask if anyone knew how to repair long-term damage from that drug (which is very similar to a high dose of Vitamin A). Somebody advised I check these forums, which I will in more detail when I have some time.

For now, I just wanted to ask a few questions...

Does anybody (who knows about Accutane) have anything they'd recommend me to take? I take various supplements at the moment... B Complex, Biotin, Vitamin C, Vitamin E (and more).

A couple of things I've been suggested to try are:

- Calcium D-Glucarate

- Ganoderma lucidum extract (a medicinal mushroom which I can't seem to find for sale on UK websites)

Could anybody tell me if these are worth a go?

I'd appreciate it.

Thanks for taking time to read this

I have also been taned.

The things that I have found to be helpful for recovering are:

-Gelatinized maca + Siberian Ginseng + Arginine-alpha-ketoglutarate

-HCGenerate

-Testogel

Check out propeciahelp to get up to speed.

My endocrinologist checked testosterone levels, found them to be borderline low, and told me that is why accutane caused problems. He put me on Testogel and things improved a lot. But a few months later, ED came back. I may start Testogel again, or HCG shots, or HCGenerate.

Also, be careful with the fish oil. It is a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor (like accutane) and large doses have an antiandrogen effect.

http://meridianvalleylab.com/5-alpha-reduc...ver-inhibition/

Have you seen a good endocrinologist? Has he checked your testosterone (total & free), estradiol, pituitary hormones (LH, FSH, prolactin), thyroid hormones (TSH, T3, T4, thyroid antibodies), H1c and vitamin levels? These should be tested at 8:00 am. They are the minimum tests one should have when having ED problems. Before taking supplements, it is better to get tested so you know exactly what your body needs.

Hi.

I've not looked into seeing an endocrinologist. Not sure where to find one.

A doctor checked my testosterone levels and apparantly they were fine, though I've heard they don't show everything, i.e. if it's blocked somehow. After accutane, I don't really trust doctors at all, and don't want to have to pay out for prescriptions when I didn't inflict the side effects.

It's all a bit of a shit game: Pay for something to fix you, get fucked over + pay them to try and get back to normal. Bastards, I say!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A great Polish derm posted on his site a list of supplements aiding specifically with recovery and detoxification of the organism after the internal retinoid therapy, that's what he's listing:

1) Carnitine reduces the side- effects of isotretinoin therapy. Internal dosage:

1000 mg twice a day, for one month. Two week break. Then repeat (3 times).

2) Methionine and Choline- he suggests Methiovit, which is:

Methioninum (Methionine) 100,0 mg

Cholini citras (Choline Citrate) 100,0 mg

Thiamini nitras (Vit. B1) 2,0 mg

Riboflavinum (Vit. B2) 2,0 mg

Pyridoxini hydrochloridum (Vit. B6) 2,0 mg

Cyanocobalaminum (Vit. B12) 0,7 μg

Tocopheroli acetas (Vit. E) 3,0 mg

Nicotinamidum (Vit. PP) 6,0 mg

Calcii pantothenas (Calcium D-pantothenian) 3,0 mg

Acidum folicum (Folic Acid) 0,4 mg

and auxillary substances which I am too lazy to translate ;p

Recommended dosage: 2 pills twice a day.

3) Vitamin E: 100 mg twice a day.

4) Vitamin C: 1000 mg, best in the form of a sparkling tablet, once a day.

5) Soy phospholipids: 600 mg twice a day.

6) Natural flax seed oil: 1 Tablespoon twice a day with bread.

7) Sylimarin: 140 mg twice a day.

8) 1-2 litres of high quality, highly- mineralised spring water per day. Rotate types (not brands, but wells of origin).

9) Magnesium and Calcium supplement, for which he suggests Dolomit. He gives dosages, but doesn't make it clear which one he has on mind, it comes in two versions: one twice stronger than the other, so I'm not sure. Probably for the time being of compiling this list only one version ws available. Recommended dosage is 3 tablets twice a day, so I guess you should go with the more conservative estimate of it constituing 96 mg Magnesium Carbonate and 162 mg Calcium Carbonate twice a day.

He also suggests two home- made tinctures drunk in rotation, please request if you are interested, then I'll add the recipes to this thread. Now I'm going to bed, so I'm not translating it tonight, I will probably post it somewhere else for the general information sometime later, if not in here.

He advices to run this treatment for the whole time of tretinoin therapy, and for three months afterwards. The rule is: 1 month of curation, two- three weeks break, repeat.

In the same article he also suggests allantoin or Vit. F based products and natural oils of grapeseed, almond and oils as moisturizers for the eye and lip areas.

Aforementioned oils, and also evening primrose oil work well as personal lubricants.

In case of face swelling compresses infused with a cool brew of nigella bring relief.

(1- 2 Tablespoons of ground seeds should be poured on with boiling water and left to steep for half an hour. After that time the seeds should be strained and the brew is ready to use).

This derm is actually a great figure. His name is Henryk Różański and he is the father of the only worthwile and credible Polish message boards concerning acne, once lively, now unfortunately deserted, but still a great resource. He also has his websites with semi holistic approach to curing acne, that he runs non- profit. Unfortunately he doesn't receive patients, lives and works in Switzerland and only carries out medical research.

I found this list online when I was considering going on Accutane. Of course the actual derm that gave me the prescription (which I've finally never finalized) never mentioned any of this to me.

As for my comments: I avoid soy, and I find Liv 52 of Himalaya Herbals to be a great non- soy based, but herbal, liver aid.


Avoiding Dairy, Gluten, and all kinds of sugar other than fruit (in moderation and in "glycemic impact down-toning context" ;)) or occasional fresh grapefruit or black currant juice. Whole pseudo- grains, lots of veg, no vinegar, but pickled produce. Properly prepared legumes. Since 1.06.2012, moderate results.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi.

I've not looked into seeing an endocrinologist. Not sure where to find one.

A doctor checked my testosterone levels and apparantly they were fine, though I've heard they don't show everything, i.e. if it's blocked somehow. After accutane, I don't really trust doctors at all, and don't want to have to pay out for prescriptions when I didn't inflict the side effects.

It's all a bit of a shit game: Pay for something to fix you, get fucked over + pay them to try and get back to normal. Bastards, I say!

I agree!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@annayake

Thanks for this list, it looks very well thought of. There are indeed research studies backing up a lot of this, especially carnitine.

I find glyco-carnitine to be better tolerated, since regular L-carnitine gives me heart palpitations and PVCs.

I am a little hesitant about the flax seed and the soy for men, since they are estrogenic and accutane itself is anti-androgenic. They might be good for women though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, i know. but still soy phospholipids is a liver supplement of choice of many mainstream amateur bodybuilders. but they do many things hazardous to one's hormonal balance...

And about the flax, unfortunately he doesn't provide arguments for his choices, so I don't know which properties of it were decisive about the inclusion to the therapy. And that's why I didn't comment on it or provide any substitutes... You guys have really rough time at ommitting essential oils, estrogenic seeds and pulses... On the plus side, you really don't need heavy creams with essential oils, your hormonal profile does all the anti-ageing work for you ;)

Another option of taking flax seed is with cottage cheese (you grind the cheese to a smooth paste, store in the fridge, and add flax seed oil right before eating). I don't know which option is worse acne- wise... I would go with bread being a safer one. Eating plain oil would be best, but might be too much for an irritated liver.


Avoiding Dairy, Gluten, and all kinds of sugar other than fruit (in moderation and in "glycemic impact down-toning context" ;)) or occasional fresh grapefruit or black currant juice. Whole pseudo- grains, lots of veg, no vinegar, but pickled produce. Properly prepared legumes. Since 1.06.2012, moderate results.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites