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Repairing the long-term damage from Accutane

vitamin d vitamin a vitamin e biotin garlic milk thistle depression

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#61 jmsil

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 06:24 AM

Indigo - No problem.. I didn't expect much from it. Out of interest, what was the strength you were taking?

Those chinese herbs you are taking, are they specific liver herbs, or more for general wellbeing, or energy etc?? Tincture form with alcohol?

Have you tried liver flushing?

Edited by jmsil, 04 August 2011 - 06:28 AM.


#62 IndigoRush

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 06:56 AM

QUOTE (jmsil @ Aug 4 2011, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Indigo - No problem.. I didn't expect much from it. Out of interest, what was the strength you were taking?

Those chinese herbs you are taking, are they specific liver herbs, or more for general wellbeing, or energy etc?? Tincture form with alcohol?

Have you tried liver flushing?


Hi.. It was Swansons, 250mg x 1 a day.

I recently discovered the herbs through YouTube. A guy called 'herbgardner00'.
I've only been taking them a week or so, in tea form. Bear in mind they're expensive, but if I've not noticed anything after I've run out, I won't re-buy. They're meant to be good in general for your immune system, and they were once only available to emperors (apparantly) thousands of years ago. Ho Shou Wu for example is meant to be good for sexual function (libido) and has been said to regain hair growth and even return grey hairs to their original colour. Sounds too good to be true but it's been proven in studies to work on most users.

I live in the UK and bought a small amount on eBay. The guy who was selling them to me recently opened a store online: www.hybridherbs.co.uk, and I'm buying them from there now. After contacting him through email (his name is Keiran) and asking him if he thought it'd help with roaccutane side effects, I discovered he took the drug too, which seemed to be the reason he'd come across them. He said they'd definitely helped, though he was honest and said he's not 100% better. I'm more optimistic about my hair now though, as he said Ho Shou Wu has helped his.

During the vast research I've done online, I also came across this site: http://www.canceract...link.aspx?n=536

If you scroll to the bottom it lists four herbs that are known to help chemo side effects. Accutane was initially used for cancer, and the side effects match chemo drugs, so I think it's worth a shot.

Like I said though, I'll report back as soon as I have good news (IF I ever do!)
Meanwhile, you can subscribe to me on YouTube if you'd like: www.youtube.com/FireYourDoctor
I've done a video about Acne in which I state people shouldn't take Accutane.
Once the herbs have kicked in (which they should) I will make videos about them.

I think we need to give our immune systems a boost though, as they've definitely been hurt.
As far as a liver flush, I haven't tried yet.
I'm 21, so live at home. My mum cooks good food!
I'm currently unemployed as I decided I couldn't cope with a full-time job while I had these worries. I didn't enjoy the job so really felt life wasn't worth living.
I have a couple of books on liver flushing so I guess now is the best time for me to try it out.

#63 Chico Esposito

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 12:09 PM

Trust me it's all about getting the bile flow back, something like Livotox by Dr Khoshbin will help it's an excellent natural product. Milk thistle does not work. Biotin and fish oil do not work at all. Liver flushes are notoriously hard post accutane, it's rare to get any stones out. If it's hairloss, cut down on fat soluble vitamin A foods like cheese, butter, milk. Cut down slightly on high beta carotene foods like carrots, your hair will stop falling out. Livotox is a good supp to take.

Your hair is falling out because you still have accutane in your body, Accutane slowed your bile flow down to a stand still and your body is unable to remove it. Taking high retinol / beta carotene foods only exasperates it, hence more hairloss. Sort out the liver and your hair will 100% stop falling out. Lots of people post accutane have problems with fat, they dont have the bile needed to absorb fat or fat soluble vitamins. Natural is the best way to go by far. Your wasting your money on those antifungal / hair growth shampoos they are for people that have hairloss due to DHT, thats not you, accutane hairloss is like hypervitaminosis A hairloss.

Edited by Chico Esposito, 04 August 2011 - 12:10 PM.


#64 IndigoRush

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:18 AM

QUOTE (Chico Esposito @ Aug 4 2011, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Trust me it's all about getting the bile flow back, something like Livotox by Dr Khoshbin will help it's an excellent natural product. Milk thistle does not work. Biotin and fish oil do not work at all. Liver flushes are notoriously hard post accutane, it's rare to get any stones out. If it's hairloss, cut down on fat soluble vitamin A foods like cheese, butter, milk. Cut down slightly on high beta carotene foods like carrots, your hair will stop falling out. Livotox is a good supp to take.

Your hair is falling out because you still have accutane in your body, Accutane slowed your bile flow down to a stand still and your body is unable to remove it. Taking high retinol / beta carotene foods only exasperates it, hence more hairloss. Sort out the liver and your hair will 100% stop falling out. Lots of people post accutane have problems with fat, they dont have the bile needed to absorb fat or fat soluble vitamins. Natural is the best way to go by far. Your wasting your money on those antifungal / hair growth shampoos they are for people that have hairloss due to DHT, thats not you, accutane hairloss is like hypervitaminosis A hairloss.


Hi. My hair doesn't fall out too bad now, just sometimes from my eyebrows. Milk thistle is said to be great for the liver, so I'll keep taking it. I know Accutane interferes with the liver. I was told my a Doc that I'm prone to going jaundice. Milk thistle just may be subtle - You can't see it working. If anything, it should protect against further damage. But I can agree about bile flow. Over more recent months, my digestion has become (pardon the pun) shit. Digestion is very important. I've not tried shampoos and don't intend to, I know that's not going to correct anything. So livotox is something you have to take forever? Did this correct your bowel movements? It's like I'm constipated but need to go when I do. I started taking Natural (herbal) laxatives to try and compensate.

#65 IndigoRush

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 03:28 AM

QUOTE (Chico Esposito @ Aug 4 2011, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Trust me it's all about getting the bile flow back, something like Livotox by Dr Khoshbin will help it's an excellent natural product. Milk thistle does not work. Biotin and fish oil do not work at all. Liver flushes are notoriously hard post accutane, it's rare to get any stones out. If it's hairloss, cut down on fat soluble vitamin A foods like cheese, butter, milk. Cut down slightly on high beta carotene foods like carrots, your hair will stop falling out. Livotox is a good supp to take.

Your hair is falling out because you still have accutane in your body, Accutane slowed your bile flow down to a stand still and your body is unable to remove it. Taking high retinol / beta carotene foods only exasperates it, hence more hairloss. Sort out the liver and your hair will 100% stop falling out. Lots of people post accutane have problems with fat, they dont have the bile needed to absorb fat or fat soluble vitamins. Natural is the best way to go by far. Your wasting your money on those antifungal / hair growth shampoos they are for people that have hairloss due to DHT, thats not you, accutane hairloss is like hypervitaminosis A hairloss.


Livotox sounds great, but they don't post outside the US and Canada sad.gif
(I live in the UK).
Any suggestions?
It's funny you say Milk Thistle doesn't work though - It's one of the key ingredients in Livotox.
I cut milk, butter, bread etc a while back. Just sugar/meat I find hard to avoid.

#66 jmsil

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 01:09 PM

Thanks for letting me know Indigo. Chico - thanks again for the information.

#67 mooshoo

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 09:29 PM

cut out vitamin A as much as possible

#68 Chico Esposito

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 06:08 AM

QUOTE (IndigoRush @ Aug 5 2011, 03:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Chico Esposito @ Aug 4 2011, 07:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Trust me it's all about getting the bile flow back, something like Livotox by Dr Khoshbin will help it's an excellent natural product. Milk thistle does not work. Biotin and fish oil do not work at all. Liver flushes are notoriously hard post accutane, it's rare to get any stones out. If it's hairloss, cut down on fat soluble vitamin A foods like cheese, butter, milk. Cut down slightly on high beta carotene foods like carrots, your hair will stop falling out. Livotox is a good supp to take.

Your hair is falling out because you still have accutane in your body, Accutane slowed your bile flow down to a stand still and your body is unable to remove it. Taking high retinol / beta carotene foods only exasperates it, hence more hairloss. Sort out the liver and your hair will 100% stop falling out. Lots of people post accutane have problems with fat, they dont have the bile needed to absorb fat or fat soluble vitamins. Natural is the best way to go by far. Your wasting your money on those antifungal / hair growth shampoos they are for people that have hairloss due to DHT, thats not you, accutane hairloss is like hypervitaminosis A hairloss.


Hi. My hair doesn't fall out too bad now, just sometimes from my eyebrows. Milk thistle is said to be great for the liver, so I'll keep taking it. I know Accutane interferes with the liver. I was told my a Doc that I'm prone to going jaundice. Milk thistle just may be subtle - You can't see it working. If anything, it should protect against further damage. But I can agree about bile flow. Over more recent months, my digestion has become (pardon the pun) shit. Digestion is very important. I've not tried shampoos and don't intend to, I know that's not going to correct anything. So livotox is something you have to take forever? Did this correct your bowel movements? It's like I'm constipated but need to go when I do. I started taking Natural (herbal) laxatives to try and compensate.


I've found from my experience milk thistle does nothing for accutane side effects, but your welcome to carry on taking it. Accutane causes intrahepatic cholastasis, thats were the side effects stem from. Once the bile transport is stopped or dramatically slowed, the body is unable to remove the drug. Digestion is bad because bile is needed to absorb fat, bile emulisifys fat and without it, fat cannot be absorbed. Likewise fat soluble vitamins will not be absorbed either. Your constipated because a lack of bile causes you to go the toilet once every 2-3 days, sometimes longer. Livotox increased my bowel movements but you'd get the same effect from taking ox bile with every meal. (it's what they give people that have had their gallbladders removed due to gallstones) Next time you go the toilet look at your stools if they are not a very dark brown it's bile related. Don't bother with the laxatives.

If it is bile related, clean up your diet as well because your body cant remove fat soluble toxins without bile. Avoid synthetic chemicals in everything. I'm from the uk too, Livotox in my mind was very good at helping my bile flow, it's not the full cure but it is addressing the main cause.

Accutane's side effects can be brought back to two things....hypervitaminosis A and intrahepatic cholastasis. Both go hand in hand with each other. Accutane causes hypervitaminosis A as your essentially taking massive amounts of Vitamin A. The only reason you can take that level of vitamin A is because retinoic acid is not stored in the liver, if you tried to take the equivalent of 80mg of retinoic acid in standard retinol it would be 266,640 IU per day. The RDA is 3000 IU per day. It's safe to say taking that amount of retinol could kill a man in 6 months. Accutane is different cos it's not stored in the liver, but it still causes hypervitaminosis A and is a very liver toxic drug. Hypervitaminosis A leads to intrahepatic cholastasis once this happens the body cant remove the drug, hence long term accutane side effects.

Hope this helps, i would look into chinese bitters....livotox is my favourite.


#69 Chico Esposito

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 06:42 AM

.

Edited by Chico Esposito, 27 December 2011 - 05:55 PM.


#70 jmsil

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 10:28 AM

Hi Chico, thanks again for the detailed explanations.

One thing I don't understand which hopefull yyou ill be able to answer. You say accutane is not stored in the liver, yet you also say because the bile flow is slowed or stopped, the body is unable to remove the drug. It sounds contradicting. Can you clear this up?

#71 Chico Esposito

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 01:33 PM

QUOTE (jmsil @ Aug 7 2011, 10:28 AM)
Hi Chico, thanks again for the detailed explanations.


One thing I don't understand which hopefull yyou ill be able to answer. You say accutane is not stored in the liver, yet you also say because the bile flow is slowed or stopped, the body is unable to remove the drug. It sounds contradicting. Can you clear this up?


Sure, Accutane is Retinoic Acid, retinoic acid can only be used in the skin cells, when the body eats a retinol containing food... milk for example, the body takes the retinol and decides whether it needs to be used right away. If it doesn't need to be used it will store the retinol in the liver. Beta carotene is absorbed through plant foods, the body converts that into retinol, it then converts that retinol into retinoic acid so it can be used in the skin cells. The point is once it's converted to retinoic acid, it cannot be converted back to retinol. Retinol can be stored in the liver but retinoic acid cannot. It's only purpose is in the skin cells.

Unlike retinol, retinoic acid and its analogues are not stored in the liver, but are rapidly metabolized (Moore, 1967)

In a natural world the body knows exactly how much retinol to convert into retinoic acid at all times. As soon as you start taking Accutane suddenly there's massive... toxic amounts of Retinoic acid flooding the body and because it's a fat soluble compound the liver has to remove it in the bile. It uses the glucuronidation pathway to do this. Which means it binds the retinoic acid to a Glucuronic acid molecule, which in theory makes it more water soluble. The only problem is these glucurides build up and slow down bile acid transport (bile flow) over time. When the bile is slowed to a halt, then the removal of accutane becomes nearly impossible, hence people suffering with hypervitaminosis A side effects for many years.

Hope this helps

Edited by Chico Esposito, 27 December 2011 - 05:57 PM.


#72 jmsil

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 03:09 PM

thanks chico, that's really well explained. you make it almost seem straightfowward. if only it was that easy to get rid of accutane from one's system! do you beleive you can really become completely accutane free eventually chico, by taking things that will strengthen the liver/bile? I know you said you still have problems (i think) but had improved. are you still improving all th time.. or has it stopped? are you still taking herbs to increase bile flow?

#73 SClippers

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 08:16 PM

Anything work for you?

#74 pimpleboy333

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 09:20 PM

my question is simple, is thier anyone out thier who has come off accutane had had no problems since ?>

#75 IndigoRush

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 06:06 AM

QUOTE (pimpleboy333 @ Aug 8 2011, 04:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
my question is simple, is thier anyone out thier who has come off accutane had had no problems since ?>


*there tongue.gif

Thanks Chico.
Where do you buy your Ox Bile and how many do you take a day?
When I first googled Ox Bile, it bought up Taurine which seems to be along the same lines (?)
Does it have to be Ox Bile, as that's more expensive?

Cheers

#76 Chico Esposito

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 02:40 PM

QUOTE (jmsil @ Aug 7 2011, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
thanks chico, that's really well explained. you make it almost seem straightfowward. if only it was that easy to get rid of accutane from one's system! do you beleive you can really become completely accutane free eventually chico, by taking things that will strengthen the liver/bile? I know you said you still have problems (i think) but had improved. are you still improving all th time.. or has it stopped? are you still taking herbs to increase bile flow?


I believe you can be 100% free of accutane side effects eventually, in time. What kind of side effects do you have? if you don't mind me asking.

#77 Chico Esposito

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 04:33 PM

QUOTE (jmsil @ Aug 4 2011, 01:39 AM)
Hi Chico,


What you've said is interesting. I'm going to get some coconut oil, as I didn't know this differed from other fats in terms of digestion.

I have no reason not to believe that bile flow is adverseley effected during/after accutane. I'm not convinced though that this could be the only cause for accutane's side effects, as I think this is just too simple, as there are ways to increase bile flow through certain herbs (chinese herb coptis) and via liver flushing. So are you saying that by simply getting a good bile flow back, in simple terms, "accutane", or "retinoic acid" as you say, can be removed from our system?

I've been on another forum (via searching google) and someone posted something similar to what you have posted, about glucuronic acid binding with the retinoic acid. Maybe this was also you... maybe you could confirm this? The post said there's an enzyme called beta-glucosidase that will un-bind the two and thus reactivate Accutane causing a viscous cycle, and that there's a supplement called Calcium D-Glucarate that inhibits this process, thus allowing your body to eliminate more Accutane. Is this something you wrote on another froum (i pretty much have copied the exact wording, so you should know if this was you).

If this was you, why didn't you mention Calcium D-Glucarate in your post? Do you know if anyone has had any positive results using this supplement? I've briefly googled but can't find anything really.... maybe this is a relatively new theory therefor know ones really tried it????? Could it work?

Your thoughts on these would be good.


I have tried Calcium d glucarate and it did absolutely nothing for me. Most of the stuff they say post accutane like taking biotin capsules or omega 3 is absolute rubbish and should be stayed away from, thats just my personal opinion. In regards to the other post that wasn't me sorry

Edited by Chico Esposito, 27 December 2011 - 05:58 PM.


#78 Bourne

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 07:46 PM

Hey, some of you guys should try Calcium Montmorillonite clay.

http://www.shirleys-...e.com/clay2.htm

It's an internal detoxifier / cleanser that positively effects many different problems with the body.

I have a giant 2 pound bottle from amazon; will last forever since you only drink a teaspoon daily.

Edited by Bourne, 08 August 2011 - 07:48 PM.


#79 jmsil

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 10:04 AM

I'll be honest in that, I don't really like talking about the side effects... it makes me depressed! All I will say is I can relate to some that Indigo mentioned in the very first post.

I'll also be honest in that I've been seriously considering suicide. I just want my old life back, and i ff I vcan't get anywhere near this, what's the point of accepting and struggling with life as it is, and truely not living? It almost feels the dignified thing to do, to get out before it gets worse when your older. I'm finding just doing normal things and meeting family more increasingly difficult because i'm an absolute shadow of what i used to be,a nd don't want people seeing me like this. and as a viscous circle, this opens up there opinions of me to being "rude", and unsocial.

100% raw food doesn't work... did this for 2 years. As Chico said, milk thistle doesn't work. I tried literally everyjing that was supposed to be healthy and gave that up many years ago, because i kept geting dissapointed nothing worked.

I decided a few weeks ago I will try one last time to un-accutane myself, and try all of the liver flush tincures from SensibleHealth, as it's common knowldge the liver is hit hard by accutane, and the feedback from those that have taken these herbs from SensibleHealthalways seem to be good. Having found this board and found chico's posts about the bile flow, and generaly how accutane stays in the body in such detail, after i started taking these herbs, have also given me encouragement that this is the right thing to take if anyjthing can sort this out. 2 weeks in almost, my energy levels have increased, libido has dramatically increased, moving my fingers across my face, my skin feels slightly more moist, as are my lips, theyfeel more supple.last friday, a week into the herbs, i developed a big red lump with a big juicy whitehead on it on my chin. i rarely ever get these for years, but used to get these all the time before accutane.whether these differences last i don't know, as i've taken things before that seem different to begin with, but don't last. time will tell. this could also be nothing ot do with accutane. it's to early to make any conclusion.

obviously since i started the tinctures i found this board, and thi s post , and chico mentioned coconut oil. i have now taked 1 tablespoon as itfor the last 4-5 days, and i have to admit i makes me ever so slightly have less energy, escpially within 1-2 hours after taking. it's nothing near as bad like olive oil, which i see people have mentioned here, as im still able to take the coconut oil every day, and welcome the fat. olive oil i felt bad for up to a week and wouldn't even consider taking more. but i may watch the coconut oil.. it's harder to judge how the liver tinctures are working when you are taking more then 1 new thing at the same time to say how effective something is.

thanks chico for telling me you tired calcium d-glu..... and unfortunetely that it didn't work. thats 2 people now. unfortunately i did order some online, but I won't waste my time taking it.

chico - did or are you taking the liver tincutres from SensibleHealth, and if so, which ones, and did you feel they were doing you good or any benefits?

Edited by jmsil, 09 August 2011 - 10:24 AM.


#80 IndigoRush

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 11:10 AM

QUOTE (jmsil @ Aug 9 2011, 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'll be honest in that, I don't really like talking about the side effects... it makes me depressed! All I will say is I can relate to some that Indigo mentioned in the very first post.

I'll also be honest in that I've been seriously considering suicide. I just want my old life back, and i ff I vcan't get anywhere near this, what's the point of accepting and struggling with life as it is, and truely not living? It almost feels the dignified thing to do, to get out before it gets worse when your older. I'm finding just doing normal things and meeting family more increasingly difficult because i'm an absolute shadow of what i used to be,a nd don't want people seeing me like this. and as a viscous circle, this opens up there opinions of me to being "rude", and unsocial.

100% raw food doesn't work... did this for 2 years. As Chico said, milk thistle doesn't work. I tried literally everyjing that was supposed to be healthy and gave that up many years ago, because i kept geting dissapointed nothing worked.

I decided a few weeks ago I will try one last time to un-accutane myself, and try all of the liver flush tincures from SensibleHealth, as it's common knowldge the liver is hit hard by accutane, and the feedback from those that have taken these herbs from SensibleHealthalways seem to be good. Having found this board and found chico's posts about the bile flow, and generaly how accutane stays in the body in such detail, after i started taking these herbs, have also given me encouragement that this is the right thing to take if anyjthing can sort this out. 2 weeks in almost, my energy levels have increased, libido has dramatically increased, moving my fingers across my face, my skin feels slightly more moist, as are my lips, theyfeel more supple.last friday, a week into the herbs, i developed a big red lump with a big juicy whitehead on it on my chin. i rarely ever get these for years, but used to get these all the time before accutane.whether these differences last i don't know, as i've taken things before that seem different to begin with, but don't last. time will tell. this could also be nothing ot do with accutane. it's to early to make any conclusion.

obviously since i started the tinctures i found this board, and thi s post , and chico mentioned coconut oil. i have now taked 1 tablespoon as itfor the last 4-5 days, and i have to admit i makes me ever so slightly have less energy, escpially within 1-2 hours after taking. it's nothing near as bad like olive oil, which i see people have mentioned here, as im still able to take the coconut oil every day, and welcome the fat. olive oil i felt bad for up to a week and wouldn't even consider taking more. but i may watch the coconut oil.. it's harder to judge how the liver tinctures are working when you are taking more then 1 new thing at the same time to say how effective something is.

thanks chico for telling me you tired calcium d-glu..... and unfortunetely that it didn't work. thats 2 people now. unfortunately i did order some online, but I won't waste my time taking it.

chico - did or are you taking the liver tincutres from SensibleHealth, and if so, which ones, and did you feel they were doing you good or any benefits?


Hey man,

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience with this drug. I know exactly how you feel, of course. Just the other day, I was having an argument with my girlfriend. I was so close to giving up. Driving + Depression/Suicidal thoughts don't mix well.

What pisses me off is that the pharm. industry poisons a load of teenagers and then leaves them to figure out the rest. I could go on about how we shouldn't be paying to try different supplements, but let's try not to get too depressed.

But, if I hear the word accutane/roaccutane, I immediately quiver. It's really messed with me. Went to the Zoo today and I just felt tired walking around, with sunglasses (it wasn't sunny) so people wouldn't see my eyes. Plus, I now have floaters which are very annoying.

Chico, you are now officially our King. Guide us back to health!

While at the Zoo though, I noted how perfectly designed the Zebras were. Perfectly symetrical. I'm not at all religious, but you have to admit someone's made them that way.

Fear is a huge issue for me now, because this drug has made me feel knackered, I worry how I'll be in 10 years. Or 20...

But Hope is always around the corner. It may not last long, but it always seems to come back. I get it with certain supplements, which turn out to do buggar all. I've got hope from this.

Chico, is it possible our digestive system's are that weak that they can't break down tablets? I got some artichokes in tablet form and I wonder how/if my body can even break them down. I have tried dozens of different tablets and they seem to have no effect on me at all now

Cheers




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