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Repairing the long-term damage from Accutane

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#3921 guitarman01

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 02:33 PM

   where in the world would rick simpson oil be economically feasible?  even where its legal?  a quick look up states to expect 3 to 4 grams of oil from a ounce of high grade cannabis.  not sure what they charge in Colorado or possibly online. but around here to come across that your looking at $300. unless home grown. which would take some serious resources and risk.



#3922 Dubya_B

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 03:41 PM

Eh, I dunno. There are plenty of good reasons to be skeptical of Rick Simpson Oil, a "half-baked" (pun intended) cure.

 

The claims made by proponents are a little far-fetched, but I believe TaneAbomination is being sincere about recovering.

It's not like he has posted a dozen recovery stories from a dozen different treatments in the past.

 

Just a warning; there appears to be a recent surge of scammers selling bogus oil. Anyone here wanting to try this might want to consider making their own at home or at least being extremely careful when choosing sources.

 

TA, have you quit using it yet?  Has your recovery lasted if you have?

Thanks again for posting about your recovery and use of the oil without trying to shove some baseless conjecture down our throats at the same time. That's commendable and rare.


Edited by Dubya_B, 17 November 2013 - 03:51 PM.

Do your part to raise awareness:

Report side effects:

Rxisk
https://www.rxisk.or...ects/About.aspx
FDA
https://www.accessda...umer.reporting1
NHS
http://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
Roche
http://www.roche.co....k/xxxcontactxxx
 

 

If you believe you suffer from the condition known as PFS as a result of Accutane, please donate to the PFS Foundation:

http://www.pfsfoundation.org/

 

 


#3923 Gladiatoro

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 04:22 PM

Eh, I dunno. There are plenty of good reasons to be skeptical of Rick Simpson Oil, a "half-baked" (pun intended) cure.

 

The claims made by proponents are a little far-fetched, but I believe TaneAbomination is being sincere about recovering.

It's not like he has posted a dozen recovery stories from a dozen different treatments in the past.

 

Just a warning; there appears to be a recent surge of scammers selling bogus oil. Anyone here wanting to try this might want to consider making their own at home or at least being extremely careful when choosing sources.

 

TA, have you quit using it yet?  Has your recovery lasted if you have?

Thanks again for posting about your recovery and use of the oil without trying to shove some baseless conjecture down our throats at the same time. That's commendable and rare.

If your going to try hemp oil I would recommend to make your own and NEVER buy it online a lot of these web sites are actually government run and sting

operations someone told me that not so long ago.... or if your lucky you live in a place where it is legal..... this stuff is said to even cure stage 4 cancer

and is non harmful  unlike conventional orthodox chemo treatment which as we all know is pure poison.

 

I would be curious if someone tried this and reported back to us on the benefits.



#3924 TaneAbomination

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:27 PM

Making the R.S. oil is best. Go to the Phoenix tears website and that has the complete set instructions & videos / how-to's. Follow the exact dosage instructions too. Took it as directed for 5 months. Important to note that during this time, I took about a year off work and had to leave the States while undergoing this treatment. I'm not on the treatment any longer, back in the States, and still doing well.

Recovery was slow - I didn't think it was working but about the 3rd month I noticed slow return of spontaneous erections.

As for fasting - no way! On this treatment you will want to eat everything in sight :) As for diet, I did some juicing , soups, bone broths, filtered water, mostly organic paleo diet. Tried to avoid processed foods & toxicity as much as possible though I wasn't always 100%.

Hope this helps. Feel free to send me PM.



#3925 MovingOn

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:52 PM

@JosephBuchignani - you got it.  No further summary necessary - although I did notice that AccutaneIsPoison's original post was removed which is a bit unnerving.  Anyhow, end of the line for me.  If that didn't work I was exploring very expensive stem cell therapy - thank goodness it didn't come to that.  Cheers!

I am so very happy for you!! I knew I wanted to follow up on that for good reason!!! On to CALI!



#3926 Dubya_B

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:09 PM

Another high-profile Accutane suicide:

 

"Jenny Pitman's nephew killed himself while taking controversial acne drug.":

http://www.telegraph...-acne-drug.html

Talented horseman and showjumper Jack Bowlby, 16, was found by his friends in his dorm room at the prestigious Cheltenham College after complaining of “very dark thoughts” whilst taking drug Roacutane.

The day before his death he had decided to put himself back on the acne drug, despite being taken off it after concerns were raised by close family friend and horse owner Lady Anne Vestey.

 

How many go unnoticed?


Edited by Dubya_B, 17 November 2013 - 11:11 PM.

Do your part to raise awareness:

Report side effects:

Rxisk
https://www.rxisk.or...ects/About.aspx
FDA
https://www.accessda...umer.reporting1
NHS
http://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
Roche
http://www.roche.co....k/xxxcontactxxx
 

 

If you believe you suffer from the condition known as PFS as a result of Accutane, please donate to the PFS Foundation:

http://www.pfsfoundation.org/

 

 


#3927 ChampionBlood

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:20 AM

   where in the world would rick simpson oil be economically feasible?  even where its legal?  a quick look up states to expect 3 to 4 grams of oil from a ounce of high grade cannabis.  not sure what they charge in Colorado or possibly online. but around here to come across that your looking at $300. unless home grown. which would take some serious resources and risk.

 

Like how high grade does this have to be? I'd assume anything from a medical dispensary would be sufficient? Where I'm from you $300 you can get an oz of absolutely top grade (medically tested) medicine. From the brief amount I have read, even a small amount of the oil (1 drop) would have you on your ass for quite a few hours. I'm not sure I could function taking this multiple times a day. 

 

Personally, I have found that MJ does significantly increase libido, so its not too much of a stretch to suppose that it could help with other symptoms related to our condition.  


Edited by ChampionBlood, 18 November 2013 - 12:31 AM.


#3928 anonyy

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 06:13 AM

You don't need to make this complicated oil get benefit from THC & others cannabinoid. You can just heat the herb (to convert THCa -> THC) and eat it (but its irritant this way) with fat or not to bypass the liver. There is Cannabis butter, space cake etc. too but i don't recommand to take it like that with fat, it's too hard for the nervous system and not medicinal at all. Better way should be to juice it then heat it (and take it away from fatty meal). But to juice it require fresh herb... so i don't know maybe there is other techniques.


Edited by anonyy, 18 November 2013 - 06:14 AM.


#3929 Roland1968

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 07:52 AM

Do I also get benefits when I smoke it? this would be my preferred option. To be honest I would not even know where to buy Rick Simpson Oil. I live in Germany and Rick Simpson Oil is illegal here. And much more difficult to get than MJ.

 

 

You don't need to make this complicated oil get benefit from THC & others cannabinoid. You can just heat the herb (to convert THCa -> THC) and eat it (but its irritant this way) with fat or not to bypass the liver. There is Cannabis butter, space cake etc. too but i don't recommand to take it like that with fat, it's too hard for the nervous system and not medicinal at all. Better way should be to juice it then heat it (and take it away from fatty meal). But to juice it require fresh herb... so i don't know maybe there is other techniques.



#3930 anonyy

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 08:04 AM

Vaporized is better than smoked. I don't know if you will get same benefit when smoked, i think it will be far less potent but still a bit effective. Cause the liver transform the THC into 11-OH-THC who is a lot more beneficial. If you eat it maybe the THC will be transformed more effectively (my theory).


Edited by anonyy, 18 November 2013 - 08:11 AM.


#3931 JTM88

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 05:41 PM

Epigentic or not, the part I don't understand is why does the symptoms slowly get worse over time for a lot of people.  Normal logic should be if you took 8 months of accutane, your symptoms should be at their worst during the regimen or immediately after.  But, most people report the severity of their symptoms as creeping slowly over 1-2 years after they have already stopped the drug.  

 

Tons of people are still getting nasty side effects even though they are eating super healthy, taking all kinds of supplements to flush their liver, and help their joints and GI.  

 

Not sure if its Epigentic or annoy's argument of liver storage.  Only thing we know is that Accutane is a very powerful drug.  It has the ability to permanently change your body.  90% of the people that took accutane is cured of their Acne forever.  The same thing for other Chemo drugs, it completely kills their cancer and it never comes back.  

 

Only thing we can do is eat healthy and just continuously bathe our bodies with nutrients.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If accutane and other toxins are expelled, if the body return to a good state, those "epigenetic" change will be no more, the body will readapt itself. It's just that the body can't deal with all things at the same times. Epigenetic is a really bad excuse, i'm convinced of that, at least saying that it's permanent. If it was permanent, my neurological symptoms will be still here, but they are gone.

And epigenetic about accutane is just a theory, i don't even think that it can cause modification. I think accutane directly block some gene expression in certain part of the body but it's limited and doesn't do any modification. It affect the gene expression system in itself, not the mechanism who make a real modification or not (my opinion). If he was doing change, our body within 2 years will be completely malformated like babys who born after accutane, all trans retinoic acid regulate too much genes, if it was doing modification, we will be simply dead.

Isotherapy is homeopathy but with the exact same molecule who caused the problems. You can't do it yourself it's too dangerous.. ask an homeopathic lab. There is 1 or 2 who can do it in europe, don't know for usa.

 

 

 

Again, epigenetics, strictly defined, is about heritable changes in gene expression. What is being described here is any change in gene expression that can be induced by outside influences. They are not the same. Again, epigenetic changes are long term changes that are potentially heritable, and, as I pointed out above, most epigenetic changes are not passed on to offspring, certainly not to the point that they have a detectable effect on evolution. The rest is gene regulation, which is often transient but, depending on the process, can continue long term for as long as the stimulus causing the change in regulation is present. As is frequently pointed out, the quickest way to get an organ to start to return to normal is to stop doing the bad things to it that were causing it dysfunction in the first place. As P.Z. Myers put it:

 

In part, the root of the problem here is that we’re falling into an artificial dichotomy, that there is the gene as an enumerable, distinct character that can be plucked out and mapped as a fixed sequence of bits in a computer database, and there are all these messy cellular processes that affect what the gene does in the cell, and we try too hard to categorize these as separate. It’s a lot like the nature-nurture controversy, where the real problem is that biology doesn’t fall into these simple conceptual pigeonholes and we strain too hard to distinguish the indistinguishable. Grok the whole, people! You are the product of genes and cellular and environmental interactions.

 

http://scienceblogs....think-it-means/



#3932 anonyy

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 06:45 PM

I don't think that it's stored in the liver, certainly in other fatty tissue. But the main problem is the real cause of acne, an excess of toxins & acids who was already overwhelming the kidney & the liver, so the body was trying to expell them with his third kidney (the skin). Accutane destroyed this third kidney, but also the liver, the intestines, kidneys, glands, etc... our body are suffocating from inside cause he can't expell any toxins and natural cellular waste. Immune reaction is natural, the body doesn't recognize those malfunctioning full of toxins & waste cells, so he try to kill & expell them. I think that's why the body cannot recover. Accutane doesn't heal acne, he destroy the body to eliminate the symptoms, it's like shooting on ourselves, completely retarded to take such a poison.


Edited by anonyy, 18 November 2013 - 06:48 PM.


#3933 JTM88

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 07:29 PM

For many with persistent acne, its due to their overactive oil glands.  Also not sure if Acutane destroyed your skin's ability to detox.  As long as you can sweat, your skin is functioning more or less normally in terms of expelling toxins and wastes.  



#3934 Gladiatoro

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 08:03 PM

Epigentic or not, the part I don't understand is why does the symptoms slowly get worse over time for a lot of people.  Normal logic should be if you took 8 months of accutane, your symptoms should be at their worst during the regimen or immediately after.  But, most people report the severity of their symptoms as creeping slowly over 1-2 years after they have already stopped the drug.  

 

Tons of people are still getting nasty side effects even though they are eating super healthy, taking all kinds of supplements to flush their liver, and help their joints and GI.  

 

Not sure if its Epigentic or annoy's argument of liver storage.  Only thing we know is that Accutane is a very powerful drug.  It has the ability to permanently change your body.  90% of the people that took accutane is cured of their Acne forever.  The same thing for other Chemo drugs, it completely kills their cancer and it never comes back.  

 

Only thing we can do is eat healthy and just continuously bathe our bodies with nutrients.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If accutane and other toxins are expelled, if the body return to a good state, those "epigenetic" change will be no more, the body will readapt itself. It's just that the body can't deal with all things at the same times. Epigenetic is a really bad excuse, i'm convinced of that, at least saying that it's permanent. If it was permanent, my neurological symptoms will be still here, but they are gone.

And epigenetic about accutane is just a theory, i don't even think that it can cause modification. I think accutane directly block some gene expression in certain part of the body but it's limited and doesn't do any modification. It affect the gene expression system in itself, not the mechanism who make a real modification or not (my opinion). If he was doing change, our body within 2 years will be completely malformated like babys who born after accutane, all trans retinoic acid regulate too much genes, if it was doing modification, we will be simply dead.

Isotherapy is homeopathy but with the exact same molecule who caused the problems. You can't do it yourself it's too dangerous.. ask an homeopathic lab. There is 1 or 2 who can do it in europe, don't know for usa.

 

 

 

Again, epigenetics, strictly defined, is about heritable changes in gene expression. What is being described here is any change in gene expression that can be induced by outside influences. They are not the same. Again, epigenetic changes are long term changes that are potentially heritable, and, as I pointed out above, most epigenetic changes are not passed on to offspring, certainly not to the point that they have a detectable effect on evolution. The rest is gene regulation, which is often transient but, depending on the process, can continue long term for as long as the stimulus causing the change in regulation is present. As is frequently pointed out, the quickest way to get an organ to start to return to normal is to stop doing the bad things to it that were causing it dysfunction in the first place. As P.Z. Myers put it:

 

In part, the root of the problem here is that we’re falling into an artificial dichotomy, that there is the gene as an enumerable, distinct character that can be plucked out and mapped as a fixed sequence of bits in a computer database, and there are all these messy cellular processes that affect what the gene does in the cell, and we try too hard to categorize these as separate. It’s a lot like the nature-nurture controversy, where the real problem is that biology doesn’t fall into these simple conceptual pigeonholes and we strain too hard to distinguish the indistinguishable. Grok the whole, people! You are the product of genes and cellular and environmental interactions.

 

http://scienceblogs....think-it-means/

Wrong only about 40 % are cured of pimples similar effect as using green tea lotion /COD or something to that order I still have mild acne same as I had before Accutane only difference is I have side effects to deal with. Not a good deal.


Edited by Gladiatoro, 18 November 2013 - 08:04 PM.


#3935 JTM88

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 08:39 PM

some parts of your body recovers like your oil glands because genetically they are so strong and overactive to begin with.  Other parts of ur body are not so and thus have a harder time.  



#3936 beans36

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:22 PM

Recently went to my doctor and he suggested I try the RepairVite Leaky Gut Cleanse. I have decided to start it after Thanksgiving because it is 3-4 weeks of only natural meats, fruits, and vegetables. No sugars or grains. 

 

I suffer from IBS and he claims that some people have significant improvement/ have been cleared of symptoms after doing this cleanse. My doctor himself has done the cleanse and speaks highly of it, and the nurse I talked to said she has seen great improvement after having done the cleanse as well. I am still skeptical that anything will help the problems I have, but this is the most promising thing I have heard in a while. 

 

Here is the diet information/info on leaky guy syndrome:

http://www.courtneyj.../REPAIRVITE.pdf

 

Here is the supplement to take along with the diet:

http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/B008XM3EE6

 

My doctor also recommends taking a general probiotic during the cleanse, but it is not necessary. 

 

Has anyone tried this before? 



Recently went to a medical spa and they said the reason I was still getting acne was because my skin was too dehydrated from the accutane I took over 2 years ago still. They gave me some super moisturizers, and applied more lotion than I've ever had on my face before, and my skin was %100 clear. 

 

Now everyday I use lotion up to 3 times a day, and definitely notice more acne if I forget to put on lotion. I also have been experimenting with using olive oil on my face at night, and it works wonderfully. 

 

Everyone assumes that acne is caused by too much oil, but I think in some of our cases we have dried out our oil glands too much. 



#3937 ChampionBlood

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 11:16 PM

Recently went to my doctor and he suggested I try the RepairVite Leaky Gut Cleanse. I have decided to start it after Thanksgiving because it is 3-4 weeks of only natural meats, fruits, and vegetables. No sugars or grains. 

 

I suffer from IBS and he claims that some people have significant improvement/ have been cleared of symptoms after doing this cleanse. My doctor himself has done the cleanse and speaks highly of it, and the nurse I talked to said she has seen great improvement after having done the cleanse as well. I am still skeptical that anything will help the problems I have, but this is the most promising thing I have heard in a while. 

 

Here is the diet information/info on leaky guy syndrome:

http://www.courtneyj.../REPAIRVITE.pdf

 

Here is the supplement to take along with the diet:

http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/B008XM3EE6

 

My doctor also recommends taking a general probiotic during the cleanse, but it is not necessary. 

 

Has anyone tried this before? 



Recently went to a medical spa and they said the reason I was still getting acne was because my skin was too dehydrated from the accutane I took over 2 years ago still. They gave me some super moisturizers, and applied more lotion than I've ever had on my face before, and my skin was %100 clear. 

 

Now everyday I use lotion up to 3 times a day, and definitely notice more acne if I forget to put on lotion. I also have been experimenting with using olive oil on my face at night, and it works wonderfully. 

 

Everyone assumes that acne is caused by too much oil, but I think in some of our cases we have dried out our oil glands too much. 

 

Gastrointestinal dysfunction is a factor in many modern diseases. Also, since Accutane has been shown to cause gastro problems (Ulcerative colitis, Crohn's, et al) it would behoove those who have taken the drug to repair and maintain an optimally functioning gastrointestinal tract, if only as a preventative measure.

 

Personally, I have been looking into the Clean Gut program, and I've gotten all of the supplements, but I've been too damn lazy lately to start the process!



#3938 Darran

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 11:23 PM

Sorry guys haven't really been following this thread, having been posting on the accutane all things male thread, just have a few qns so please on answer if relevant smile.png

 

The following qns relate to the methylation protocol...

 

Had anyone had their methionine or homocysteine levels tested?

Have you had elevated glucorticoid results such as cortisone or cortisol?

Has anyone had bone weakness or problems since accutane?

Has anyone had more than moderate success on b-vitamins, SAMe, 5-methyl-THF?

 

Anyone out there, particularly males who are suffering from sexual problems since taking accutane should check out the all things male forum!


Edited by Darran, 19 November 2013 - 11:39 PM.


#3939 Robert1000

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 06:37 AM

Sorry guys haven't really been following this thread, having been posting on the accutane all things male thread, just have a few qns so please on answer if relevant smile.png

 

The following qns relate to the methylation protocol...

 

Had anyone had their methionine or homocysteine levels tested?

Have you had elevated glucorticoid results such as cortisone or cortisol?

Has anyone had bone weakness or problems since accutane?

Has anyone had more than moderate success on b-vitamins, SAMe, 5-methyl-THF?

 

Anyone out there, particularly males who are suffering from sexual problems since taking accutane should check out the all things male forum!

 

I have elevated cortisol level.

No succes with b vitamins so far.

Did u find something that may help with accutane side effects? If you did, please post here.

Thanks alot.



#3940 Nick Ryan

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:28 AM

Epigenetic mechanisms do respond to the environment, and can be reversed naturally by certain factors, but not always. This is an incorrect assumption to make.

 

Many seemingly irreversible diseases have been linked to known or unknown environmental triggers, and often there is a genetic predisposition.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19833297

Epigenetic mechanisms such as DNA methylation and modifications to histone proteins regulate high-order DNA structure and gene expression. Aberrant epigenetic mechanisms are involved in the development of many diseases, including cancer. The neurological disorder most intensely studied with regard to epigenetic changes is Rett syndrome; patients with Rett syndrome have neurodevelopmental defects associated with mutations in MeCP2, which encodes the methyl CpG binding protein 2, that binds to methylated DNA. Other mental retardation disorders are also linked to the disruption of genes involved in epigenetic mechanisms; such disorders include alpha thalassaemia/mental retardation X-linked syndrome, Rubinstein-Taybi syndrome, and Coffin-Lowry syndrome. Moreover, aberrant DNA methylation and histone modification profiles of discrete DNA sequences, and those at a genome-wide level, have just begun to be described for neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, and Huntington's disease, and in other neurological disorders such as multiple sclerosis, epilepsy, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis.

 Take PTSD and schizophrenia into consideration also, as these are known have epigenetic components and can be triggered into adulthood.

 

Additionally, cellular differentiation is largely controlled by DNA methylation and DNA methylation is somewhat controlled by cellular differentiation. Environmental factors only go so far into explaining it. Certain cell types are programmed to have specific genes turned on or off, which actually determines how they function. From my understanding, this would be difficult to reverse if Accutane affected this system, but not necessarily impossible.

 

Something I find very interesting is the few recoveries resulting from water fasting. It has been shown in vitro, that if a cell is starved for long enough, it will begin shedding epigenetic tags and makes its way back towards pluripotency. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the fasting recoveries since it would be difficult to accomplish the level of "starvation" as in the in-vitro experiments while still living, but it is something to think about.

I have completed a 7 day water fast, and a couple other sufferers have gone 21 and 28 days without remission of symptoms, so it is not a sure thing.

 

 

I have a friend of a friend who was left with ulcerative colitis, severe headaches, and arthritic symptoms that began shortly after a course of Accutane in high-school. She eats organic, makes a living from organic farming, and basically lives organic, but still suffers severe side effects. ...It only helps so much. I will try to get her on this board if I get a chance to speak with her again soon.

 

The sad fact of the matter is we really don't have a good understanding of what this drug did to us, leaving us with very little choice at the moment besides trying to live healthy and "poking and hoping" with different therapies, whether natural or pharmaceutical.

 

Question: if you're thinking about "shedding epigenetic tags," the only thing I can think of in the way of "poking and hoping" is taking demethylating agents with growth-inhibitory effects (cancer concerns). After all, the turning off of genes is simply done through methylation, and unless Accutane turned something on which it shouldn't have, it must have methylated (turned off) something which we can turn back on through demethylation. I don't mean to oversimplify or suggest that any damage done by environment can be reversed through environmental changes, but if Accutane (environment) methylated something inside of us that needs to be on, don't we need to just demethylate through environment (demethylation agents or other sources) to fix the issue? Not that that's a simple task, either, but would at least give real direction.


What has worked for me in order of safety/effectiveness: Eating small portions of food (no more than 2 fistfuls at any given sitting) *and/or* Low calorie/low fat/low-to-no grain diet while minimizing all dehydrating substances.

What helps: Methyl-B12, Exercise+Water and a Humidifier in your room.

What hasn't: Everything else (so far).

What makes it worse: Multivitamins** for whatever reason. If you need to take supplements, get the single supplement as needed- multivitamins can make your symptoms worse. Do your research on each vitamin! Eating large meals, and eating highly processed/fatty foods.





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